PGR Massive Upgrade

[AlipheeseXIV]

Welcome, I'm back with another CRT for PGR. Today's CRT will focus on a major tiering revision and have a few miscellaneous upgrades, this CRT will have no character additions as this is important enough to warrant it's own thread I will make sure to do that in a later CRT. Without further ado, let's move on to the main point which is my proposal to get the verse to 1B.

Spoiler: Main & Sub Arguments

The argument centers around the Gate and it's dimensions, now ordinarily I'd have to start by proving that they are in fact spatial/mathematical and prove it's superiority and all that jazz but this is already the case as tier 1 is accepted on the The Hetero Tower page. If you'd like to see the CRT wherein that was accepted feel free to click here, however for the sake of time I will not go over what has already been stated or accepted there. Since we already have proof for this being the case, I will now introduce the general argument for the scaling, starting with this scan here. Which states that the Primal Projection is made up of numerous dimensions, now numerous is admittingly kinda vague and doesn't really give us anything to actually work with. However, using this translated scan we get an even better interpretation which is the one I will be running with. Now as you can see, the translated scan states that the Projection is made up of countless dimensions. With the translator in question even clarifying that the use of the term 维度, refers to spatial dimensions.

Now according to both this and this thread, which both have staff confirmations the term countless by default would, in this case give us a rather ridiculously high 1B rating. I plan to push for this as it's simple and straightforward. As such, my main proposal is to upgrade those who scale to the Gate/Core of the Hetero Tower or those who scale to Primal Projection to countless 1B. For some extra support, characters like Lee Hyperreal already has a statement of being able to transcend beyond time and dimensions and Ishmael herself has the power to bend the boundaries of creation and destruction beyond the measures of space and time. Not to mention the Gate of the Hetero Tower is also stated to be unrestricted by spatial rules.

However...I have a secondary omega lowball proposal to please the less than faithful. Now I want to preface that as mentioned in this thread, saying countless is millions or billions or trillions is a lowball in accordance to our standards, so what I am about to propose is in fact incredibly disingenuous but I will do so anyways. The secondary proposal uses this scan here, wherein a character by the name of Schulz is shown seeing atoms and subatoms across 26 dimensions. Now I may not be a translator, but searching for a similar keyword allowed me to find that using the CN scan you can very clearly see that the word "dimensions" has the same exact Chinese phrase from the previous scan that references spatial dimensions (维度) which is highlighted.

As such, my secondary proposal is as follows. The Gate will be 27D and all subsequent stuff will follow a n+1 formula, so characters like D.Nanami who exist beyond the Gate will be 28D and characters like Ishmael who exist beyond even that will be 29D. Before it's mentioned, I am aware characters can only scale to a specific tier if they are shown destroying or creating said space. So yes, even though a character like D.Nanami exists in what would be a 28D space in accordance to this proposal that would not mean she has 28D AP by default. Anyways that's about it for the tiering proposal, to summarize once again my main proposal is to get a countless 1B tier but my second proposal will be using the 26D argument at it's core.

Edit: The following stuff regarding miscellaneous changes has been removed and will be brought up in a later CRT due to the length of this one and focus the tiering itself requires.

That about wraps up this CRT, character additions/key additions will be added in another CRT following this one's approval. Appreciate anyone who's read until the end, of course if you have any questions regarding anything mentioned and need any clarification feel free to comment on the post.

Agreed for possibly/likely: LephyrTheRevanchist (agreed), Vietthai96 (agreed), Qawsedf234 (agreed), ActuallySpaceMan42 (agreed?)

 

[Hayato5652]

Well, this is going to be exciting. At first glance, I thought those dimensions were just parallel worlds, and I was leaning toward disagree with the upgrade...

But after seeing the scans and the translations in the thread, it's actually reasonable to consider those dimensions as 1-B.
It's a bit hard to interpret at first, and I’ll need some time to fully adjust to this kind of upgrade,
but overall, I agree with this thread.

 

[Telomera]

I disagree. Aside from uncertainties about the term translated as "dimensions" (in Japanese for example, "jigen" doesn't just mean "spatial dimensions"), it's already been established in the thread that OP cited that not every higher dimensional structure in the PGR verse has quantitative superiority to lower dimensional structures. The Tower (not the Gate) is 5D, but is still Tier 2. As a result, OP cannot simply say "PP-level characters are countless-D, therefore they are 1-B due to higher dimensions having quantitative superiority as a rule in PGR." OP also has to prove that each of those higher dimensions makes it quantitatively superior to lower dimensional beings.

Additionally, we cannot say that the Primal Projection itself is "countless"-dimensional. It is a projection from countless dimensions, but you have to remember that "projections" don't have the same dimensionality as their source. A 3D projector makes a 2D projection. A projection of a 3D sphere can be 2D. We cannot assume that the Primal Projection has the same dimensionality as its source and thus cannot even give it "countless"-D HDE, although Ishmael's Observer key should theoretically have "countless"-D HDE.

As for giving Lee and Ishmael those hax, that is not valid either. If character 1 is "bound" by something and character 2 is not, that doesn't mean that character 2 has resistance to all of character 1's hax. That's just a non sequitur.

As for the layered abilities, that's not how layering works, so I also have to disagree with that. First of all, you don't start counting layers with the baseline resistances. If "Character 1 has y ability, and Character 2 has y ability to a greater extent than Character 1" is not sufficient proof for Character 2 having layered hax. You specifically have to show that a hax ability overpowers a resistance to that ability to prove that it is layered. A valid example would be "Character 1 has resistance to mind manipulation. Character 2 has mind manipulation potent enough to overcome Character 1's resistance. Therefore Character 2 has mind manip with one layer." For a second layer, someone would have to overcome a resistance to Character 2's layered mindhax, and so on and so forth. Also, you need to give scans for these resistance and layered hax feats.

Now, maybe I should make a separate thread to address these last concerns I have, but why tf are profiles listed as having macro quantum matter manipulation for having weapons that fire macro quantum particles? That's not what matter manipulation is. Matter manipulation would be manipulating those particles while they're part of some sort of structured matter to change their structure in a way that negates durability. For example, switching all of the electrons in someone's body into positrons is "matter manipulation", manipulating their molecular structure to turn them into a silicon based organism is also "matter manipulation", disintegrating them with a beam that is so hot that it turns them into quark gluon plasma is not "matter manipulation", and firing molecules at someone is also not "matter manipulation."

 

[Voidnether]

Hmm, 26 dimensions scaling because someone decided to view atoms across the bosonic string theory. Obviously, I agree with the thread sincerely given this would upscale Raiden from MGR too. I don't think the bosonic string theory there would be compactified anyway so 1-B makes sense to me

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Hmm, 26 dimensions scaling because someone decided to view atoms across the bosonic string theory. Obviously, I agree with the thread sincerely given this would upscale Raiden from MGR too. I don't think the bosonic string theory there would be compactified anyway so 1-B makes sense to me

Honestly the most important thing is that the dimensions in question are spatial/mathematical and consistently treated as such, there really isn't much room for error there.

 

[Voidnether]

Honestly the most important thing is that the dimensions in question are spatial/mathematical and consistently treated as such, there really isn't much room for error there.

I mean, I watched the entire thing and it felt very graphic to me personally but other than that like the actual problem is whether the twenty-six beams of light bent by gravity there works the same as the space-time continuum or if it works differently given the former would be a compactified dimension anyway

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I disagree. Aside from uncertainties about the term translated as "dimensions" (in Japanese for example, "jigen" doesn't just mean "spatial dimensions")

What is this yap? Half the things you're saying are completely nonsensical, you're not even knowledgeable on the verse to begin with I advise you do your homework before trying to answer or just don't say anything at all. Also this is complete gibberish, why are you talking about Japanese in a thread that doesn't use any Japanese lmao?

it's already been established in the thread that OP cited that not every higher dimensional structure in the PGR verse has quantitative superiority to lower dimensional structures. The Tower (not the Gate) is 5D, but is still Tier 2. As a result, OP cannot simply say "PP-level characters are countless-D, therefore they are 1-B due to higher dimensions having quantitative superiority as a rule in PGR." OP also has to prove that each of those higher dimensions makes it quantitatively superior to lower dimensional beings.

Yeah this is exactly why you should cut your losses and stop making yourself look like a fool, you don't even understand how the scaling works evident in this response lmao. This stuff was also already accepted, I don't need to prove anything regarding that.

Additionally, we cannot say that the Primal Projection itself is "countless"-dimensional.

I absolutely can, as noted in the thread that I linked where it was stated that the wiki does so.

It is a projection from countless dimensions, but you have to remember that "projections" don't have the same dimensionality as their source. A 3D projector makes a 2D projection. A projection of a 3D sphere can be 2D. We cannot assume that the Primal Projection has the same dimensionality as its source and thus cannot even give it "countless"-D HDE, although Ishmael's Observer key should theoretically have "countless"-D HDE.

Genuinely what is this? Why are you talking about a literal irl projection to address a fictional verse's very different meaning and way of using the word? Also nobody is giving Primal Projection the same dimensionality as Ishmael, countless is not infinite there's nothing that states 2 characters who are 1B have to be the same exact level of strength or dimensionality despite having the same "countless statement" and vice versa it would still follow a n+1 hierarchy.

As for giving Lee and Ishmael those hax, that is not valid either. If character 1 is "bound" by something and character 2 is not, that doesn't mean that character 2 has resistance to all of character 1's hax. That's just a non sequitur.

No, you just don't understand what it means to be bound to the Gate vs not being bound to it. It's a higher degree of acaus type 4 that alr gives a plethora of resistances. Not to mention, other weaker characters who are fodder tier 6 resist some of the abilities in question lmao so it's not even like we don't have examples to cross scale it from.

As for the layered abilities, that's not how layering works, so I also have to disagree with that. First of all, you don't start counting layers with the baseline resistances. If "Character 1 has y ability, and Character 2 has y ability to a greater extent than Character 1" is not sufficient proof for Character 2 having layered hax. You specifically have to show that a hax ability overpowers a resistance to that ability to prove that it is layered. A valid example would be "Character 1 has resistance to mind manipulation. Character 2 has mind manipulation potent enough to overcome Character 1's resistance. Therefore Character 2 has mind manip with one layer." For a second layer, someone would have to overcome a resistance to Character 2's layered mindhax, and so on and so forth. Also, you need to give scans for these resistance and layered hax feats.

This makes literally no sense, you're just arguing against yourself atp. That example of layers is literally what's being used. Corrupted entities are alr not able to fight against a CPF, which I already mentioned. Hence, why I did not count that as a layer and only counted it for stronger corrupted who can resist it such as Ascendants, Agents, Twins, etc.

Now, maybe I should make a separate thread to address these last concerns I have, but why tf are profiles listed as having macro quantum matter manipulation for having weapons that fire macro quantum particles? That's not what matter manipulation is. Matter manipulation would be manipulating those particles while they're part of some sort of structured matter to change their structure in a way that negates durability. For example, switching all of the electrons in someone's body into positrons is "matter manipulation", manipulating their molecular structure to turn them into a silicon based organism is also "matter manipulation", disintegrating them with a beam that is so hot that it turns them into quark gluon plasma is not "matter manipulation", and firing molecules at someone is also not "matter manipulation."

Yeah bro...go ahead and argue that a gun capable of shooting fireballs isn't fire manip. Have fun.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I mean, I watched the entire thing and it felt very graphic to me personally but other than that like the actual problem is whether the twenty-six beams of light bent by gravity there works the same as the space-time continuum or if it works differently given the former would be a compactified dimension anyway

Well no, I think you're focusing too much on the beams of light there. Schulz's enhanced vision allows him to see into the Gate, even if he isn't physically capable of reaching it. As such, it's more appropriate to say that the 26 dimensions he saw include the Gate in the case of my second example.

 

[Voidnether]

Well no, I think you're focusing too much on the beams of light there. Schulz's enhanced vision allows him to see into the Gate, even if he isn't physically capable of reaching it. As such, it's more appropriate to say that the 26 dimensions he saw include the Gate in the case of my second example.

Shouldn't it be obvious when he saw Primal Projection Ishmael in the end of the future calculations? It's not like he's physically capable when he's not considered as a human since he's an inorganic consciousness by the Gestalt

It's kinda hard to comprehend them all given PGR is more of like a lost media similar to GGZ if anything, but yeah if someone played the game I think they could figure out a thing or two

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Shouldn't it be obvious when he saw Primal Projection Ishmael in the end of the future calculations?

Lol, yeah it is very obvious but we have to consider how many people have never touched this game or looked at anything beyond stuff that's linked in these threads. 100% Very plain and simple tho...yes.

It's not like he's physically capable when he's not considered as a human since he's an inorganic consciousness by the Gestalt

Yeah, plus he wasn't even able to go to the Tower when it first appeared due to side questing with Kowloong peeps lol.

It's kinda hard to comprehend them all given PGR is more of like a lost media similar to GGZ if anything, but yeah if someone played the game I think they could figure out a thing or two

Saying lost media when GGZ doesn't even have an official English version anymore hurts my heart.

 

[Hayato5652]

I thought at the very least this thread would cover Parhelion Ishmael, especially since the Resistances section is supposed to be added to Ishmael page...

I hope that in future threads,Parhelion Ishmael appears alongside Chaos and Nanami.

 

[Telomera]

Yeah this is exactly why you should cut your losses and stop making yourself look like a fool, you don't even understand how the scaling works evident in this response lmao. This stuff was also already accepted, I don't need to prove anything regarding that.

If it was "already accepted" that every higher dimensional being/structure in PGR is quantitatively superior to lower dimensional ones, then why did the staff evaluate that the Tower was only tier 2 despite being 5D? They even explicitly said that it was "insignificant 5D" which directly affected the Gate and Ishmael's scaling as well since both of them had dimensional tiering one dimension below their total dimensionality. Stop trying to mislead everyone about what was accepted on the thread, you still need to prove that those "countless" dimensions are "significant."

No, you just don't understand what it means to be bound to the Gate vs not being bound to it. It's a higher degree of acaus type 4 that alr gives a plethora of resistances

You need to prove that not being bound by the Gate indicates resistance to hax possessed by those who are bound by it

This makes literally no sense, you're just arguing against yourself atp. That example of layers is literally what's being used. Corrupted entities are alr not able to fight against a CPF, which I already mentioned. Hence, why I did not count that as a layer and only counted it for stronger corrupted who can resist it such as Ascendants, Agents, Twins, etc.

You still need to give scans for all these layers of "Character 1 resists x ability, Character 2 has x ability to such a potent degree that it can overpower Character 1's resistance" etc etc. With you trying to prove 3 layers for one power and 5 layers for another you're going to need a lot more scans.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I thought at the very least this thread would cover Parhelion Ishmael, especially since the Resistances section is supposed to be added to Ishmael page...

I hope that in future threads,Parhelion Ishmael appears alongside Chaos and Nanami.

That'll be added after this CRT, it'd be way too much stuff to cover adding Parhelion Ishmael, Chaos & Nanami all into 1 thread on top of the upgrade.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

If it was "already accepted" that every higher dimensional being/structure in PGR is quantitatively superior to lower dimensional ones, then why did the staff evaluate that the Tower was only tier 2 despite being 5D?

Maybe because if you READ REALLY hard you'll see that the Gate has already been accepted as significant to lower dimensions. Also stop trying to twist my words, I never once said that EVERY higher dimensional being/structure in PGR is quantitatively superior to lower dimensional one's and that's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Do all of us a favor and just stop it lil bro, you're literally just talking straight out of your ass now. This thread focuses solely on the Gate and those who scale to it, it's really not that complex to understand if you just read the OP.

They even explicitly said that it was "insignificant 5D" which directly affected the Gate and Ishmael's scaling as well since both of them had dimensional tiering one dimension below their total dimensionality. Stop trying to mislead everyone about what was accepted on the thread, you still need to prove that those "countless" dimensions are "significant."

No it never did, you're just an actual clown. This is focusing on the Gate not the lower level of the Hetero Tower, genuinely who does this? This is crazy I never knew there were people who try to act smart despite being ignorant and not even knowing about the subject they are discussing.

You need to prove that not being bound by the Gate indicates resistance to hax possessed by those who are bound by it

Already proven by the fact that the only 2 characters as of the creation of this thread are resistant to the abilities of the lower level of the Hetero Tower and treat said space and everything in it as insignificant which is literally supported by their tier and the thread.

You still need to give scans for all these layers of "Character 1 resists x ability, Character 2 has x ability to such a potent degree that it can overpower Character 1's resistance" etc etc. With you trying to prove 3 layers for one power and 5 layers for another you're going to need a lot more scans.

I don't need that many more scans, it's just 2. The Tifa scan is available on the PV main page, and Agents being above Ascendants is self evident and likewise proven through Luna's literal profile. The only other scan I have to grab which I was gonna do anyways, I have just been busy with work is the CPF one.

 

[Hayato5652]

That'll be added after this CRT, it'd be way too much stuff to cover adding Parhelion Ishmael, Chaos & Nanami all into 1 thread on top of the upgrade.

Considering what you're saying, and the potential that PGR cosmology has, there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.

 

[Telomera]

This thread focuses solely on the Gate and those who scale to it, it's really not that complex to understand if you just read the OP.

Even if we accept the Gate being countless-D and quantitatively superior to the lower parts of the Tower, that's still not enough proof for hyperversal tiering. You also need to prove as a rule that each one of those countless "dimensional jumps" gives the Gate quantitative superiority over lower dimensional beings to justify your hyperversal tiering (it was not accepted that every one of the Gate's extra dimensions, as a rule, is significant). Otherwise, we're stuck at the Gate being one level of uncountably infinite quantitative superiority over Tier 2, which is of course just Low 1-C. One of those extra dimensions is significant, sure, but we can't say the same about all the other countless extra dimensions.

Already proven by the fact that the only 2 characters as of the creation of this thread are resistant to the abilities of the lower level of the Hetero Tower and treat said space and everything in it as insignificant which is literally supported by their tier and the thread.

Sure, but you can't just extrapolate from that and say that they're also resistant to the abilities of all beings that are "bound" by the Hetero Tower. That's not how powerscaling works.

I don't need that many more scans, it's just 2. The Tifa scan is available on the PV main page, and Agents being above Ascendants is self evident and likewise proven through Luna's literal profile. The only other scan I have to grab which I was gonna do anyways, I have just been busy with work is the CPF one.

It's astounding that you have no clue on how layered hax works even after I explained it to you. Again, someone having hax to a much greater degree does not automatically grant an additional layer of hax. You have to prove that for each and every subsequent hax layer that you're claiming PGR has, the hax is capable of overcoming a resistance to the previous layer of hax.

Unless the verse explains it as a rule (not the case here), 5-layered hax would AT THE VERY MINIMUM be a situation where "character 1 has resistance to x, character 2's x is so potent that it overcomes char 1's resistance [which I will call layer 1 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 1 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which I will call layer 2 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 2 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which I will call layer 3 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 3 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which I will call layer 4 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 4 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which would be 5-layered hax]." This is why I'm telling you that you need WAY more scans than you or the profiles are giving, especially considering the fact that only one layer of mindhax is described on the profiles (ie Vonnegut overcoming Ascendants' mind manip resistance which they honestly shouldn't even be listed as having in the first place).

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Considering what you're saying, and the potential that PGR cosmology has, there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.

Yeah there is, I'm the only one really working on it which is why the pace has been so slow. We have some people helping out in the background, but here specifically on site it's mainly me.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Even if we accept the Gate being countless-D and quantitatively superior to the lower parts of the Tower, that's still not enough proof for hyperversal tiering. You also need to prove as a rule that each one of those countless "dimensional jumps" gives the Gate quantitative superiority over lower dimensional beings to justify your hyperversal tiering (it was not accepted that every one of the Gate's extra dimensions, as a rule, is significant). Otherwise, we're stuck at the Gate being one level of uncountably infinite quantitative superiority over Tier 2, which is of course just Low 1-C. One of those extra dimensions is significant, sure, but we can't say the same about all the other countless extra dimensions.

No, I really don't. It's already accepted on the site that if dimensions are treated or referred to as spatial or mathematical within a series that they go with the interpretation given. In this case, the Gate of the Hetero Tower was already accepted as significant, this scan is an old scan that I simply happened to get translated which proves that the Gate's dimensions were countless, I held off on this CRT because I wanted to better understand tier 1B but now I am confident enough in my understanding to do so. It fit the bill of the wiki's standards for 1B it's that straightforward, I don't have to prove that every individual dimension is significant as that'd literally be physically impossible given the absurd number of them.

Sure, but you can't just extrapolate from that and say that they're also resistant to the abilities of all beings that are "bound" by the Hetero Tower. That's not how powerscaling works.

I'm not "just extrapolating" as I literally already said, the characters in question are either resistant to their own abilities or there are other weaker characters who are resistant to said abilities. Not to mention, majority of these abilities are based off the PV and all characters who are unbound by the Gate are immune AND are able to fully manipulate the virus the ONLY 2 characters on the page as of me sending this message who are unbound by the Gate literally being Projection & Lee (not including Ishmael's true form). Also yes, if you weren't aware that is how powerscaling can work, it's called cross scaling if a character is more than infinitely weaker than another it isn't rocket science to understand that the more than infinitely stronger character would have superior resistance, even more so if they resist far stronger and more potent abilities. Especially if said characters are higher dimensional.

It's astounding that you have no clue on how layered hax works even after I explained it to you. Again, someone having hax to a much greater degree does not automatically grant an additional layer of hax. You have to prove that for each and every subsequent hax layer that you're claiming PGR has, the hax is capable of overcoming a resistance to the previous layer of hax.

Unless the verse explains it as a rule (not the case here), 5-layered hax would AT THE VERY MINIMUM be a situation where "character 1 has resistance to x, character 2's x is so potent that it overcomes char 1's resistance [which I will call layer 1 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 1 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which I will call layer 2 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 2 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which I will call layer 3 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 3 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which I will call layer 4 hax], then some character with resistance to layer 4 hax gets their resistance overpowered by an even more potent hax [which would be 5-layered hax]." This is why I'm telling you that you need WAY more scans than you or the profiles are giving, especially considering the fact that only one layer of mindhax is described on the profiles (ie Vonnegut overcoming Ascendants' mind manip resistance which they honestly shouldn't even be listed as having in the first place).

No, what's astounding is how you misinterpret what I'm saying and confuse layered resistance for layered hax. I'm not saying someone having a hax to a greater degree is automatically layered, and you should absolutely read it VERY carefully again if that's actually what you think. As an example character A is able to mind hax character B, if character B is never stated or shown to be resistant against mind hax and is affected then there's no layers of mind hax for character A. However, if character A then goes to character C and ends up trying to mind hax them and character C resists it guess what? Character C has 1 layer of resistance against mind hax, which is my entire point. Likewise, if character C went up to character D and tried to resist their mind hax but character D's mind hax ends up affecting them then character D has 2 layers of mind hax.

 

[Hayato5652]

One interesting point I want to bring up is that in Cosmology PGR, time transforms into something entirely different within higher dimensions.
For example, let’s take this scan:

• "To lives of higher dimensions, time becomes another form, more like a physical object."

Now, if we take a look at the scaling, we can see that the same thing has happened in Hetero Tower:

• Here time takes on a different essence, where a fleeting moment stretches into a life time. He has endured endless loops of existence, witnessing countless sunrises and sunsets.
• He finds himself trapped in this rift of the world, akin to a helpless insect ensnared within a prison of amber.
• Time ceases to be a mere concept measured by the hands of a clock, transforming into images that endlessly replay in front of him..."

Also, the same kind of temporal transformation happens in the Gate, although in that case, the flow of time is way more complex...

• He feels trapped in this dimension away from reality, yet at the same time, he experiences all. Every past and future of all versions of "himself" is laid out like a map, with clear descriptions of all that happens.

• The distorted dimension intertwines and rumbles, like an orchestra without a conducto r, chaotic music notes fly out of the movement and become bitmap, they then become two-dimensional, rising up to transform into the platform beneath his feet, and lastly, into shapes he cannot comprehend.

• The enormous amount of information floods into his brain but vanishes the next second. He experiences millions of years in his mind in that fleeting moment. He sees the birth and destruction of numerous galaxies through this odd-colored dimension, the pages of time are flips at the speed of light.

• He stands amidst this vast universe, his view unrestricted by spatial rules. He sees the light of numerous stars at their birth and destruction-light from millions and millions of years ago, showing how young and small Earth is compared to everything else.
• It felt like a second, yet it also felt like a million years.
• Fight, in this battle endless and infinite.

Spoiler: Gate

The concepts of "beginning" and "end" do not exist in this dimension. Time is like building blocks, existing solely for the entertainment of the owner of the dimension.
The chaotic space gradually settles. Lee already understands why this place feels so familiar, it is because this is not his first time here.
The galaxies merge into a pair of all-seeing eyes, warmly looking down on the lonely soul in the darkness.
A voice resonates from afar, speaking directly into Lee's brain. It speaks a language Lee has never heard of before, as if it is the voice of the universe, at the same time, it is also the voice of all people, yet he can understand it somehow.
Their conversation revolves around his "memories," which are also his "present," as well as his "future."

If the 1-B structure is related to the Gate… considering the spatial dimensions, I think it actually makes sense, because the Gate contains many strange and bizarre phenomena.

Spoiler: Chinese version

未元投影体

由无数维度的投影所集合而成的虚无形体。原本的它们既没有固定的躯壳,也没有统一的意识,却藉由异聚塔顶层的不断变动的因果律而交织在一起, 将它们的极小部分力量投影到此处,向那试图叩响门廊的种族——————那名为人类的生灵,作出询问。

Spoiler: TRANSLATION

A incorporeal entity created from the collection of projections from countless dimensions, They originally had neither a fixed body, nor a unified consiousness, but weaved together by borrowing the constantly changing laws of casaulity at the top of the hetero tower, a small fraction of their power is projected here, to question the species who knocks on their door-the lifeform known as humans.

If Primal Projection and Observer reaches 1-B, considering its nature as spatial dimensions (维度), not only does it not harm the PGR story, but it's also acceptable for power scaling.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[Shiroiyo]

We talked about this before and I agree with the 1-B upgrade.

 

[Hayato5652]

I don't have a problem with scaling, but what’s been on my mind is how Nanami is supposed to be 27D, Just being beyond the Gate doesn’t seem enough, in my opinion, to place her above the Gate in terms of hierarchy.

I’ve just started Chapter 31, so I’m not familiar with the full story yet, I just want to know what exactly exists beyond the Gate that Nanami is being scale to.
Nanami seems very contradictory, but maybe that’s just because I haven’t read Chapter 32 yet.

Or maybe I misunderstood? Is Nanami supposed to get HDE 27D?
Anyway... I suggest that in future threads, characters who enter the Gate should be given an HDE rating in the power and ability section, since any character who enters the Gate perceives the lower dimensions as if they were a book, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with giving such characters that kind of ability.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I don't have a problem with scaling, but what’s been on my mind is how Nanami is supposed to be 27D, Just being beyond the Gate doesn’t seem enough, in my opinion, to place her above the Gate in terms of hierarchy.

I’ve just started Chapter 31, so I’m not familiar with the full story yet, I just want to know what exactly exists beyond the Gate that Nanami is being scale to.
Nanami seems very contradictory, but maybe that’s just because I haven’t read Chapter 32 yet.

Or maybe I misunderstood? Is Nanami supposed to get HDE 27D?

Save it for when her thread is made, would appreciate it if you would stay on topic and refrain from mentioning anything unrelated to the topic of this thread as to not cause needless confusion and questioning. If you want to know read it, or ask me in dms but do not mention stuff unrelated to the topic please and thank you.

Anyway... I suggest that in future threads, characters who enter the Gate should be given an HDE rating in the power and ability section, since any character who enters the Gate perceives the lower dimensions as if they were a book, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with giving such characters that kind of ability.

No, simply reaching a space, whether higher dimensional or not doesn't give you anything but range by default. Not every character who reaches the Gate will have HDE.

 

[Hayato5652]

As such, my secondary proposal is as follows. The Gate will be 26D and all subsequent stuff will follow a n+1 formula, so characters like D.Nanami who exist beyond the Gate will be 27D and characters like Ishmael who exist beyond even that will be 28D. Before it's mentioned, I am aware characters can only scale to a specific tier if they are shown destroying or creating said space. So yes, even though a character like D.Nanami exists in what would be a 27D space in accordance to this proposal that would not mean she has 27D AP by default.

Save it for when her thread is made, would appreciate it if you would stay on topic and refrain from mentioning anything unrelated to the topic of this thread as to not cause needless confusion and questioning. If you want to know read it, or ask me in dms but do not mention stuff unrelated to the topic please and thank you.

I didn’t bring up anything outside the scope of this thread; Nanami was mentioned in the CRT

Alright, I won’t ask any questions until everything is clarified. And if I do, I’ll message you on your message wall.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I didn’t bring up anything outside the scope of this thread; Nanami was mentioned in the CRT

Yes, she was mentioned but the stuff regarding her is a completely separate topic from the current discussion and something that will be tackled in it's own CRT.

 

[OblivionCiffer2202]

Now according to both this and this thread, which both have staff confirmations the term countless by default would, in this case give us a rather ridiculously high 1B rating. I plan to push for this as it's simple and straightforward. As such, my main proposal is to upgrade those who scale to the Gate/Core of the Hetero Tower or those who scale to Primal Projection to countless 1B

I don't know anything about the verse (I must get into the PGR Lore). But I agree with the improvement to 1-B(innumerable/countless-D).

Lee Hyperreal already has a statement of being able to transcend beyond time and dimensions

One question, wouldn't this be 1-A Low? Transcending time and dimensions, it qualifies as such. But is that the only statement there is, I guess not, but it is left up in the air.

 

[Shiraito983]

looks fine to me

 

[Hayato5652]

One question, wouldn't this be 1-A Low? Transcending time and dimensions, it qualifies as such. But is that the only statement there is, I guess not, but it is left up in the air.

It's one of those cases that will probably be addressed in the future, and a CRT will likely be made about it.

But not for Lee... for the Observer.

 

[OblivionCiffer2202]

It's one of those cases that will probably be addressed in the future, and a CRT will likely be made about it.

But not for Lee... for the Observer.

Hopefully be there when it happens.

 

[TheNothing84]

Absolutely Agree

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

One question, wouldn't this be 1-A Low? Transcending time and dimensions, it qualifies as such. But is that the only statement there is, I guess not, but it is left up in the air.

Not by itself, would need more proof yeah.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

looks good

 

[Hizack123]

Nice

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Hmm, 26 dimensions scaling because someone decided to view atoms across the bosonic string theory. Obviously, I agree with the thread sincerely given this would upscale Raiden from MGR too. I don't think the bosonic string theory there would be compactified anyway so 1-B makes sense to me

Excuse me, this caught me off guard wtf.

 

[KLOL506]

@DontTalkDT @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @Celestial_Pegasus @Ultima_Reality @Emirp sumitpo @Theglassman12

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump