The Death of Mystery (Infinity in Type-Moon).

[Pluto321]

7 singularities.

7 lostbelts.

7 downgrade threads.

Clear them all and defeat the Beast of Humanity to restore the Wank Order to the pages.

can we get a vote tally on who is agree and disagree with this crt

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP's arguments make sense.

 

[Vietthai96]

That infinity statement is such a........lmao

i was right stop myself from scaling Nasuverse

 

[Ethan37]

From what I've seen, Infinity does not exist in the literal sense.

tbh
Those doesn't have enough "energy" narration is most likely humanity's universe of awareness. Item designated for culling and compiling is a system governed by mankind. The world itself doesn't have any limits.
Hime Arc outright states in MBBAN that the world expands in response to increased possibilities and will support the infinite possibilities of infinite people. Outright denying Sialim's notion that the world has limited possibilities (the same thing Archimedes said in Extella).She states the world doesn't obey the Human Order and will continue to expand in response to increased possiblities.

In LB7, Tezcatlipoca says pretty much the same thing as Hime Arc. Mortals are bound to the concept of death, but that doesn't mean the same goes for something we ourselves can't understand (the world). The items designated for culling probably only applies to timelines that are governed by humanity. The world itself allows these possibilities to exist for the living, but the living are inherently limited and cannot maintain an infinite amount, like the world can. But that doesn't mean that the potential isn't there.

The whole point of Wankbreakers premise regarding infinite possibilities doesn't exist in humans awareness is blatantly proven wrong by Hime Arc

The same concept as i represent in the Bleaching thread but somehow getting ignored by everyone

これらはすべて空想の世界。本来なら剪定されているはずの余剰時間。
Such is a World wholly [comprised] of fantasy. Excess time that originally should've been culled.
いずれ誰の記憶からも消え去り、忘れ去られるもの。
It was something what would eventually vanish from everyone's memories; consigned to oblivion.
たとえ、ハッピーエンドは起こらなかった、ただの作り話であったとしても。
Even that a happy end didn't come about; even that it was merely a made-up story.
幻想であろうと。虚構であろうと。
Even that it was fantasy. Even that it was fabrication.
一度作られたものは、消え去らない。一度生まれた夢は、その境界に刻まれる。
Something once created does not vanish. A dream once born forth is in its Boundary (境界, kyoukai) engraved.
この宇宙に、永遠に、残り続けるのだ。
It shall persist forevermore within this Universe.

I Disagree with the OP

 

[SweetDao]

Hime Arc outright states in MBBAN that the world expands in response to increased possibilities and will support the infinite possibilities of infinite people. Outright denying Sialim's notion that the world has limited possibilities (the same thing Archimedes said in Extella).She states the world doesn't obey the Human Order and will continue to expand in response to increased possiblities.

The translation seems VERY iffy. Do you have the raw?

 

[Ethan37]

The translation seems VERY iffy. Do you have the raw?

refer which one

 

[SweetDao]

refer which one

The part of the message I quoted include a single album which comes from the same chapter, so getting the whole chapter would be cool, if not, just that one:

 

[Firestorm808]

The part of the message I quoted include a single album which comes from the same chapter, so getting the whole chapter would be cool, if not, just that one:

I don't see how this is compatible the quantum time lock mechanic.

 

[Ethan37]

The part of the message I quoted include a single album which comes from the same chapter, so getting the whole chapter would be cool, if not, just that one:

there you go

 

[Ethan37]

I don't see how this is compatible the quantum time lock mechanic.

QTL is part of system governed by mankind
read what i posted above bro

 

[SweetDao]

there you go

So yeah, that's what I thought, unless the Furiganas are somehow implying infinity (which, at first glance, checking on google doesn't seem to be the case), I don't see where is the mention of "infinite people" or "infinite possibilities".

What I get (without the Furiganas) for the speech bubbles regarding "infinity" when I use MTL is this:

"The world can no longer bear the burden of that computational load..."

I also checked a chinese translation and it's more or less the same exact sentence. So for now, I don't understand where did the english translation got the "infinite possibilities of infinite people".

 

[Wankbreaker]

So yeah, that's what I thought, unless the Furiganas are somehow implying infinity (which, at first glance, checking on google doesn't seem to be the case), I don't see where is the mention of "infinite people" or "infinite possibilities".

What I get (without the Furiganas) for the speech bubbles regarding "infinity" when I use MTL is this:

I also checked a chinese translation and it's more or less the same exact sentence. So for now, I don't understand where did the english translation got the "infinite possibilities of infinite people".

The furigana is very, and I mean VERY blurry, but it doesn’t seem to match the hiragana of mugen, 「むげん」


The beast of mistranslation strikes the type moon community yet again.

 

[SweetDao]

The furigana is very, and I mean VERY blurry, but it doesn’t seem to match the hiragana of mugen, 「むげん」


The beast of mistranslation strikes the type moon community yet again.

Agenda translating at that point. Unless they have some big brain moment, I can't fathom how they would translate that shit into "infinite possibilities" and "infinite humans", I don't even see "無限". So ******* weird.

 

[Ethan37]

What I get (without the Furiganas) for the speech bubbles regarding "infinity" when I use MTL is this:
I also checked a chinese translation and it's more or less the same exact sentence. So for now, I don't understand where did the english translation got the "infinite possibilities of infinite people".

Let me cite Petrikow Translation for this

You're saying every possibility exists for every person? The world couldn't bear the weight of such computational complexity

Quite the weak-willed and belittling thing, that. The world moves at the mercy of fluctuating spiritrons. Neither human order nor human nature it obeys. It calculates not. By nothing can it stop. All it does, is merely change

Read what Hime Arc said, that's the whole point for the denial of sialim notion regarding the world can't bear the consequences of all possibilities of all people they believe INFINITE possibilities can't exist, this is the key to prove The worlds simply doesn't abide by the Human Awareness,by human logic

Also there's the support evidence from Tezcatlipoca in LB7 when he explains how time works

Mortals are bound to the concept of death, but that doesn't mean the same goes for something we ourselves can't understand (the world).

The furigana is very, and I mean VERY blurry, but it doesn’t seem to match the hiragana of mugen, 「むげん」


The beast of mistranslation strikes the type moon community yet again.

You are too concerned with a small part that you yourself are not an expert in while nothing has truly changed, instead you ignore the premises that are built upon your own argument especially in the OP.
could you please focus more on the premise of your own argument?

 

[SweetDao]

Read what Hime Arc said, that's the whole point for the denial of sialim notion regarding the world can't bear the consequences of all possibilities of all people they believe INFINITE possibilities can't exist, this is the key to prove The worlds simply doesn't abide by the Human Awareness,by human logic

I mean, my rebuttal was purely on the translation, which, according to the guy you quoted (I don't know who he is, but if you quote him I suppose he's knowledgeable) is still different from the "infinite possibilities of infinite people". So, yeah, the entire postulate of :

Hime Arc outright states in MBBAN that the world expands in response to increased possibilities and will support the infinite possibilities of infinite people.

Just can't work, at all.

I don't know about the rest, but the premise you gave just isn't true.

 

[Ethan37]

I don't know about the rest, but the premise you gave just isn't true.

Hmmm can you refer to which premise i present isn't true?
If you denied what Hime arc and Tezcatlipoca said regarding the Worlds doesn't abide by the Human Logic,human awareness, i already gave the evidence neatly

"infinite possibilities of infinite people"

This premise comes from Case Files novel, that's why they can't bring up Case Files anymore since the whole sialim notion are disproven in MBBAAN.

 

[SweetDao]

This premise comes from Case Files novel, that's why they can't bring up Case Files anymore since the whole sialim notion are disproven in MBBAAN.

What I mean is simple.

You gave a scan about someone saying there are "infinite possibilities of infinite peoples".

I said the scan doesn't say this, and it's a weird mistranslation or whatever.

That's about it.

 

[ShinyHax]

So, hello everyone... And this is the same guy again who is already making the 5th or 6th topic about the Nasuverse downgrade when most of the Nasuverse community is simply absent because they could easily show him that he is talking some kind of nonsense?

The current evidence of the absence of infinity is in fact a couple of torn phrases and a quote without the full context of the situation.

Despite the fact that they talk about an infinite number of alternative worlds almost constantly.

 

[SweetDao]

So, hello everyone... And this is the same guy again who is already making the 5th or 6th topic about the Nasuverse downgrade when most of the Nasuverse community is simply absent because they could easily show him that he is talking some kind of nonsense?

The current evidence of the absence of infinity is in fact a couple of torn phrases and a quote without the full context of the situation.

Despite the fact that they talk about an infinite number of alternative worlds almost constantly.

While it's fine to not agree with OP, you should put scans to substantiate your claims and explain why OP is wrong

 

[Ethan37]

What I mean is simple.

You gave a scan about someone saying there are "infinite possibilities of infinite peoples".

I said the scan doesn't say this, and it's a weird mistranslation or whatever.

That's about it.

Well,I gave you later explanation there
So, any objections about this?

This premise comes from Case Files novel, that's why they can't bring up Case Files anymore since the whole sialim notion are disproven in MBBAAN.

 

[SweetDao]

Well,I gave you later explanation there
So, any objections about this?

Again I'm not knowledgeable enough to agree or disagree, I was purely talking about the translation...

 

[Ethan37]

Again I'm not knowledgeable enough to agree or disagree, I was purely talking about the translation...

Alr, thanks at least for your cooperative in this discussion, kinda looking forward for someone reliable to judge this thread

 

[GG55HH]

Again I'm not knowledgeable enough to agree or disagree, I was purely talking about the translation...

What about something like This or do you need raws?? I don't have those tho

 

[SweetDao]

What about something like This or do you need raws?? I don't have those tho

I think it was already talked about in the first couple pages

 

[Wankbreaker]

Hmmm can you refer to which premise i present isn't true?
If you denied what Hime arc and Tezcatlipoca said regarding the Worlds doesn't abide by the Human Logic,human awareness, i already gave the evidence neatly

The human order doesn’t cause the world to crash and burn when too many exist, it exists to delay that

The crashing and burning will happen with or without human order, the only difference is how soon it will happen.

At best, you’ve proved the QTL doesn’t exist (which I doubt, HEAVILY.) , and not disproving the innate limitations.

Essentially, a nothing burger.

This premise comes from Case Files novel, that's why they can't bring up Case Files anymore since the whole sialim notion are disproven in MBBAAN.

 

[Wankbreaker]

So, hello everyone... And this is the same guy again who is already making the 5th or 6th topic about the Nasuverse downgrade when most of the Nasuverse community is simply absent because they could easily show him that he is talking some kind of nonsense?

The current evidence of the absence of infinity is in fact a couple of torn phrases and a quote without the full context of the situation.

Despite the fact that they talk about an infinite number of alternative worlds almost constantly.

Using things that are called metaphors and that cannot exist in reality is not good evidence to disprove this.

I’m tired of having to repeat this same point over and over again.

 

[Wankbreaker]

they could easily show him that he is talking some kind of nonsense?

The fact that they do not do so already speaks volumes.

I would get it if it was a banned user that physically cannot comment, but.

however, I do not expect your self awareness to advance to this level before calling someone’s point nonsense when you haven’t even engaged with the arguments.

 

[Tipoima]

It really has been just the same argument all over again.


"Here are the reasons why things in Nasuverse aren't infinite"
"But here they said they ARE infinite"
"But here it's explained why it can't be infinite"


I haven't seen anything measurably infinite in Nasuverse. I don't think the scans mentioning infinity are worth anything unless they directly address the elephants in the room (like QTL), or demonstrate something that's blatantly "yea, this could only be done with infinite X"

 

[ShinyHax]

While it's fine to not agree with OP, you should put scans to substantiate your claims and explain why OP is wrong

I'm already ashamed just to quote THIS.

The narration does say THIS afterwards, but their numbers are confirmed in a previous scene by Shirou-Angra to be a 100 million. This is almost definitely intentional, to drive home the point of the previous paragraph.

So the quote he uses is this:

I knew that much.

But this... I never could have anticipated.



They inundated Miyama Town in less than half an hour.

......For humanity, "infinite" is merely a metaphor.

No matter how vast, no matter how far beyond human reckoning—all things have limits.

"Infinite" is but a word born from the boundaries of cognizance.

Yet—

What stands before me now defies those very "things that are countless."

Like seriously? The author describes why he uses beautiful expressions in a LITERARY work. The character almost directly says why he uses the words he uses.

At the same time, the comment looks extremely stupid, because the character himself has already explained his action.

Infinity doesn’t exist in the truest sense of the word,but is used to explain things that are countless, things that are beyond the boundaries of someone’s current level of cognizance. This is especially highlighted with

The quote:

They are true "infinity".

An endless chain of propagation.

An apocalyptic army doomed from the very moment of its inception.

A suicide circuit with no brake to halt its self-annihilation—unstoppable by any soul.

The earth buried beneath the end result of a mad ecosystem.

So. This isn't even sophistry, it's just the creation of some absolute rule for all of Nasu's works based on the words of a character in one of them, who in fact was simply explaining to readers why he used the word infinity to describe a crowd of 100 million creatures constantly rushing towards him.

This can't even be called an argument for the sake of a joke. A random quote is taken out of context and becomes an absolute rule. Like, I can do that too.

Attitude toward Rin
‘Tohsaka’s descendants sure did well! Alright, there aren’t any Magician seats left, but I will hammer some unreasonably difficult magecraft into you! They’re things I’ve worked out but unfortunately never taught anyone!’ So he goes, a bit happily.
Anyone who is a Magician’s pupil is first started off with a living hell where they might accidentally destroy the universe—like with Aoko from Mahoyo. Although Rin never minded it that much, instead simply tilting her head, wondering if maybe she had just had some kind of tremendously hellish thing shown to her, after which she kept puking for a whole month.

Rin is the destroyer of the universe - proven.

This is even repeated in Case Files, somewhat. The possibilities that are assumed to be infinite are later clarified to be “countless” in reality.

“Even this universe cannot sustain an expansion into infinite possibilities. But the total number of them is not within the grasp of human beings. Therefore, we say that it is countless. And so perhaps the purpose of this being named Zepia is to limit the stage
and the people, and to reduce the scope of the possibilities we need to take into account.”

This is a great quote, but there are also a huge number of other quotes that talk about "infinity". The Arcueid quote is just above, for example.

Because of which it can be considered an "argument" and "proof", but it simply does not have much value.

In the same way, you should not consider every word of the mages in the Deeds of Lord El Melloi to be true, because in the Deeds themselves it is often said that modern mages are far from omniscient individuals.

Something that is beyond the grasp of cognizance being called countless. Hmm, I wonder where this was stated before!

This is really great because he is trying to connect this quote to Nasu's words that were once written.

These parallel worlds also don’t even meet the size requirement for current Tier 2, as they are alternate versions of earth. The Moon Cell, which stores records of possibility data, only have alternate earths.

You know, it would look better if the previously used quote from the magician did not talk about the "universe".

That is, there is not even self-consistency between the arguments.


I don't want to really understand the quotes, so I'll say this. There is nothing else in the Moon Cell (which is a complete lie) because, suddenly, the work of the Moon Cell is the analysis of the Earth. And only the analysis of the Earth.

The first quote is about the Grail, the second is about the magic of parallel worlds. And neither of them says that parallel worlds are limited purely to the Earth.

The parallel world system is sustained by the solar system, with a large amount of data volume meaning its destruction.

So, where is the self-consistency? The argument before was that parallel worlds only touch the Earth, now the argument is that this is only the solar system.

It's a very rough estimation, but should the Earth persist at its present level of civilization for another century, it's likely that the Solar System will collapse.

However, the reality is that we live and multiply. The Solar System hasn't yet dissolved before the sheer volume of data that we produce, and it's likely that the status quo can be sustained for another hundred million years.

Here, this is a very big simplification of Alterra's words. That is, here he was even too lazy to insert the full quote in the game. At the same time, Fate/Extella itself can masterfully refute this very quote.

One, Alterra said that although as a conqueror and is obliged to understand such trifles, she is still an alien organism for the Earth and she cannot know everything.
Two, Archimedes explained that the world is an elastic concept.
Three, this not only does not agree with all the works, it does not agree even in Fate/Extella where the pruning system for some reason works perfectly on Velber, who, according to Archimedes, only flies back to our galaxy at the time of the game, and for some reason the galactic jammer that the Moon Cell deploys still works perfectly.


This argument is always easily refuted by one fact: the Greek gods made constellations.

TLDR?

Infinity doesn’t exist.

The parallel worlds don’t meet the size requirements.
They shouldn’t be tier 2.

Ultimately, the arguments have almost zero value since the part about infinity is outright nonsense, and the second part is refuted by the vers itself.

The fact that they do not do so already speaks volumes.

I would get it if it was a banned user that physically cannot comment, but.

however, I do not expect your self awareness to advance to this level before calling someone’s point nonsense when you haven’t even engaged with the arguments.

Why respond to "Yo, one character here said that there is no infinity, so of course I'll make it a fact."

 

[Tipoima]

Here, this is a very big simplification of Alterra's words. That is, here he was even too lazy to insert the full quote in the game. At the same time, Fate/Extella itself can masterfully refute this very quote.

That's a quote by Archimedes. And that's not how Altera's name is spelled.

 

[ShinyHax]

That's a quote by Archimedes. And that's not how Altera's name is spelled.

Great.

The game does explain this through Altera though.

P.S.

Sorry, I use a translator. The names can be weird sometimes.

 

[ShinyHax]

Using things that are called metaphors and that cannot exist in reality is not good evidence to disprove this.

Sophistry is not the best argument. Try again.

I’m tired of having to repeat this same point over and over again.

Yes, because again and again the answer to such blatant false equivalence will be "it doesn't work that way."

 

[Ethan37]

The human order doesn’t cause the parallel worlds to crash and burn when too many exist, it exists to delay that

And where do you think the adjacent realities(Parallel Worlds) is coming from?

"Upon the Earth, there is exists the hypothesis of "Adjacent Worlds"

The World is not one; rather, like a reflection in a pair of opposing mirrors, it infinitely unfolds. Consequently, there cannot exist only a single future -- or so it's thought. In other words --"

It's upon the Texture and what is Texture?
It's the collective uncounciousness of intelligent lifeform who sits in the seat of primacy

　人格を持っていた自然（かみ）はただの自然現象になっていき、大気中のエーテルは霧散した。
Nature (自然, jizen) / Divinities (かみ, kami, as in 神) possessed of personality became as nothing more than natural phenomena (自然現象, jizen genshou), and the Ether within the atmosphere dispersed.
　魔術の王ソロモンが没してから神秘の減少は加速していった。
From the passing of Solomon, the King of Thaumaturgy, did the depletion of Mysteries accelerate.
　そして五百年前、ついに神代は完全に終了した。
And as of five centuries ago, the Age of Divinities reached its complete cessation.
　この惑星（ほし）は自然から独立した、自然のサイクルから離れてもなんとか自分たちだけで生きていける動物たちのものになった。
This planet was from Nature unbound, beholden now to organisms capable of survival independent the cycle of Nature.
　うん、分かりゃすくいうとキミたち人間の事だね。
Un, more simply phrased, I'm referring to Humans.
　人間が獲得した知性の方向性…
The directionality (方向性, houkousei) that humans have obtained of sapience (知性, chisei) ...
　精神性は〈不確かな法則〉という闇を照らす事を望んだ。
their very weltgeist (精神性, seishinsei, "the nature of the psyche") desires that light be shed upon the shadows that are the 〈Laws Uncertain〉(不確かな法則, futashikana housoku, "uncertain / ill-defined laws").
　結果、惑星（ほし）のルールが〈人間が生きる為に最適化した法則〉に変化した、というコトさ。
In consequence, I would say that the Rule of the Planet (惑星のルール, wakusei no ruuru) has been redefined to 〈the body of Laws optimized to the survival of Man〉.
　竜も妖精も、キミたち人間のルールでは反則なんだ。
Both the Dragons and the Fae exist in violation of the Rule of Man (人間のルール, ningen no ruuru).
　だから彼らは自分から世界の裏側に移住した。
Thus, they have of their own volition relocated to the Reverse of the World.
　この地上をキミたちに譲り渡した」
They have to you ceded the Surface of the Earth.

GoA stated that this domain embodied the Body of Laws, the Laws of it's primates Aka Humans, can't you comprehend all this?
This law is the things that have been ignored by Hime Arc in MBBAAN, it's explained later that the worlds itself doesn't abide by this law of humanity
...

tbh
Those doesn't have enough "energy" narration is most likely humanity's universe of awareness. Item designated for culling and compiling is a system governed by mankind. The world itself doesn't have any limits.

 

[ShinyHax]

And where do you think the adjacent realities(Parallel Worlds) is coming from?


It's upon the Texture and what is Texture?
It's the collective uncounciousness of intelligent lifeform who sits in the seat of primacy

GoA stated that this domain embodied the Body of Laws, the Laws of it's primates Aka Humans, can't you comprehend all this?
This law is the things that have been ignored by Hime Arc in MBBAAN, it's explained later that the worlds itself doesn't abide by this law of humanity
...

Just ask him how the worlds of Tsukihime and the worlds of Extra can exist, because according to Nasu's answers, the Moon Cell on the moon only exists in the worlds of Extra. And the Moon Cell is an object OLDER than the Earth. That is, how, according to his logic, did the worlds of Tsukihime and Fate appear, which are also separate?

 

[Wankbreaker]

And where do you think the adjacent realities(Parallel Worlds) is coming from?


It's upon the Texture and what is Texture?
It's the collective uncounciousness of intelligent lifeform who sits in the seat of primacy

GoA stated that this domain embodied the Body of Laws, the Laws of it's primates Aka Humans, can't you comprehend all this?
This law is the things that have been ignored by Hime Arc in MBBAAN, it's explained later that the worlds itself doesn't abide by this law of humanity
...

Does this paragraph not debunk your claim that the planet doesn’t obey human order?


Every new argument you make, you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[ShinyHax]

Does this paragraph not debunk your claim that the planet doesn’t obey human order?


Every new argument you make, you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

The Planet does not obey the Human Order. It is the Planet that regulates it.

　人格を持っていた自然（かみ）はただの自然現象になっていき、大気中のエーテルは霧散した。
Nature (自然, jizen) / Divinities (かみ, kami, as in 神) possessed of personality became as nothing more than natural phenomena (自然現象, jizen genshou), and the Ether within the atmosphere dispersed.
　魔術の王ソロモンが没してから神秘の減少は加速していった。
From the passing of Solomon, the King of Thaumaturgy, did the depletion of Mysteries accelerate.
　そして五百年前、ついに神代は完全に終了した。
And as of five centuries ago, the Age of Divinities reached its complete cessation.
　この惑星（ほし）は自然から独立した、自然のサイクルから離れてもなんとか自分たちだけで生きていける動物たちのものになった。
This planet was from Nature unbound, beholden now to organisms capable of survival independent the cycle of Nature.
　うん、分かりゃすくいうとキミたち人間の事だね。
Un, more simply phrased, I'm referring to Humans.
　人間が獲得した知性の方向性…
The directionality (方向性, houkousei) that humans have obtained of sapience (知性, chisei) ...
　精神性は〈不確かな法則〉という闇を照らす事を望んだ。
their very weltgeist (精神性, seishinsei, "the nature of the psyche") desires that light be shed upon the shadows that are the 〈Laws Uncertain〉(不確かな法則, futashikana housoku, "uncertain / ill-defined laws").
　結果、惑星（ほし）のルールが〈人間が生きる為に最適化した法則〉に変化した、というコトさ。
In consequence, I would say that the Rule of the Planet (惑星のルール, wakusei no ruuru) has been redefined to 〈the body of Laws optimized to the survival of Man〉.
　竜も妖精も、キミたち人間のルールでは反則なんだ。
Both the Dragons and the Fae exist in violation of the Rule of Man (人間のルール, ningen no ruuru).
　だから彼らは自分から世界の裏側に移住した。
Thus, they have of their own volition relocated to the Reverse of the World.
　この地上をキミたちに譲り渡した」
They have to you ceded the Surface of the Earth.

With a very simple example. Fairies and Dragons cannot exist according to the Human Order, but the Planet simply redirected them to the Reverse Side of the Planet, rather than destroying them.

 

[Ethan37]

Does this paragraph not debunk your claim that the planet doesn’t obey human order?

How duh
I'm literally explaining what the law is and how it's being ignored later

Every new argument you make, you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Wow

 

[Wankbreaker]

The Planet does not obey the Human Order. It is the Planet that regulates it.



With a very simple example. Fairies and Dragons cannot exist according to the Human Order, but the Planet simply redirected them to the Reverse Side of the Planet, rather than destroying them.

This is because the planet is now “under possession” of humanity, so it will reform itself to fit their laws, regardless. The end of the age of gods is a constant even in Tsukihime worlds.

この惑星（ほし）は自然から独立した、自然のサイクルから離れてもなんとか自分たちだけで生きていける動物たちのものになった。

This planet became the possession of animals independent from nature—who, even if separated from natural cycles, somehow manage to live by themselves.

Their fate is so interconnected in fact, that it will die out if the human world(order) does. It grows and changes in response to humanity.

「つまりさ、星そのものを生命体と見たガイア論的な抑止力と、我々人間が抱く抑止力は別物だという事だ。……そこでだアラヤ。おまえが生涯の敵として憎んできたのは、いったいどっちなんだろうね」

　───ふむ、と魔術師はわずかに思案した。

　言われてみれば、確かにそういう見方もある。

　荒耶は今まで気が付きもしなかった事柄を考える。……そう。長く、長すぎるほど神秘を学んできた彼が、考えようともしなかったその事柄。

　ガイア論的な抑止力。人間の世を存続させようとするコレは、けれど世界が無事ならば人間などどうなってもよい、という結論を持つ。

　反して、人間全体が生み出す抑止力は星さえも食い潰して人間の世を存続させようとする。

　……答えは、明らかに後者だった。

「語るまでもない。私が幾度となく争ってきた想念、荒耶が敵とみなすモノとは、救いきれぬ人間の性サガである」

「そちらは地球上すべての人間の意識だぞ。おまえは、たった一人で六十億に近い人の意志に勝てるというのか」

"In other words, the Gaia-based Counterforce—which perceives the planet itself as a living entity—and the deterrent born from humanity are fundamentally different things. ……So then, Araya. Which one has been the lifelong enemy you've despised?"

───Hmm, the magus pondered briefly.

Now that you mention it, that perspective did hold merit.

Araya contemplated what he’d never noticed before. ……Indeed. That very concept he, despite his extensive—excessively long—study of the mysteries, had refused to consider.

The Gaia-based Counterforce. While its purpose was to sustain the human world, it held one absolute conclusion: so long as the planet survives, humanity’s fate is irrelevant.

Conversely, the Counterforce born from collective humanity would devour even the planet itself to preserve human civilization.

……The answer was unequivocally the latter.

“Need we even discuss this? The consciousness I’ve clashed with time and again—what I recognize as the enemy—is humanity’s irredeemable nature.”
“That ‘nature’ is the collective will of every human on Earth. Do you mean to tell me you alone can overcome the will of nearly six billion?"

「…………アカシックレコードに触れようとする事で抑止力が動きだす。おまえのように人間を憎む者が全能となれば、世界の終焉が起きる確率が高まるからだ。この抑止力というものには二種類ある。

　一つは霊長である人間が、自分達の世を存続させたいという無意識の集合体。

　そしてもう一つは、この世界そのものの本能だ。……この両者は目的が同じだが、その性質は微妙に異なる。世界そのものの本能がアカシックレコードに触れる者を律するのは、たんに今の地球を支配しているのが人間だからにすぎない。人間の文明社会が崩壊するという事は、この天体の〝成長の終わり死〟に直結する可能性があるからだろう。故に世界の意志が作り出した救世主は、英雄と並んで人間の世の崩壊を防ぐんだ」

"……When one attempts to reach the Akashic Records, the Counterforce activates. This occurs because if a being who despises humanity—like yourself—gains omnipotence, the probability of the world's end drastically increases. This Counterforce manifests in two forms.

One is the collective unconscious of humankind—the prime species—desiring the continuation of their own era.

The other is the very instinct of the world itself. ……Though both share the same objective, their natures subtly differ. The world's instinct restrains those who touch the Akashic Records simply because humanity currently dominates Earth. The collapse of human civilization would lead directly to this celestial body’s ‘death at the end of growth.’ Thus, the saviors born of the world will join heroes in preventing the human world’s demise."

You claim that the world changes without humanity, but Kara no Kyoukai states that the planet needs humanity to change. You’re going against a basic theme of the franchise, for a higher tier.

 

[Re5yh]

@Wankbreaker what tier will the Swirl of the Root will be after this thread?

 

[Wankbreaker]

@Wankbreaker what tier will the Swirl of the Root will be after this thread?

not affected.