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That's right, I have returned with a big-ass CRT for P&A revisions! This is part one of my planned Marvel revisions, with Part Two being various changes to the Magic Page, such as moving character-specific abilities to their respective pages (something which has been wanted for a while and is admittedly long overdue) and Part Three being Mystic Cosmology (since Ultima isn't going to be doing it for the foreseeable future).
1. Astral Form Additions:
2. Additions to Magic Page
3. Seeing as The Ones who Sit Above in Shadow are referred to as "Gods Above Gods" and various similar titles, they should get God Physiology.
4. For Storm's speed section, her Infinite Speed should only apply to her Godhead and not her standard magic, as she doesn't have any actual showings of boosting her speed to this level with just plain magic while Strange, Doom, and Scarlet Witch actually do, especially since they're all high-tier sorcerers while she is a lower-level sorceress. That said, her maximum speed with the Godhead should be "likely Infinite" instead of "possibly" due to her matching the Adversary in speed.
5. For Doctor Strange:
9. God Physiology:
10. For Scarlet Witch:
11. For Doctor Doom:
12. God Physiology for The One Above All: Religions are blind men touching God, Nightmare uses the example of the parable of the elephant to explain the relationship between One Above All - Humanity/Belief. Which means that the New Gods like Odin, Thor, Zeus, etc. are a subjective and limited expression created by humanity to try to reach The One Above All. Also, all Gods are facets of the One Above All, from Loki Vol 3 #3
13. For Mindless Ones:
14. For Dormammu:
16. For Storm:
17. For Loki:
18. For Mephisto:
19. For the Griever at The End of All Things:
22. For Knull:
Full Agreements: @ActuallySpaceMan42, @Maverick_Zero_X, @Theglassman12
1. Astral Form Additions:
- For Astral Forms themselves
- Further Type 1 Abstract Existence for Astral Forms, as well as simply stating that an Astral Form containing one's personal history/timeline: A soul is stated to contain someone's "life and past", to the point where using part of it can help them map their own (literal) personal timeline. It has also repeatedly been shown that one's soul contains their past, present, and future.
- Thus, the Abstract Existence (Type 1) sections for Astral Forms would look like this:
- Information (Type 2. Astral Forms are abstractions of sentient minds represented as loci of informational potential within the infinite psychic matrix of the Astral Plane).
- Concept (Type 1 [XXX, since I'm not posting the entire long current justification for it here])
- Personal History/Timeline: (Above reasoning)
- For the powers of affecting an Astral Form:
- Causality Manipulation and further support for Non-Physical Interaction: To affect an Astral Form is to affect that person's personal timeline, as shown above (especially in the scans with Spider-Man and Hulk).
2. Additions to Magic Page
- For the innate nature of magic energy:
- Further Invisiblity/Stealth Mastery: Iron Man's armor can't detect magical energy
- For Basic Magic:
- For Sorcerer Supreme Tier Sorcerers:
- Advanced Causality Manipulation, Type 2 Information Manipulation, & Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation: Doctor Strange casually alters Gwenpool's personal information (which he further describes as "the evidence, the proof that you are a living being") and also moves it from the Earth-TRN565 timeline to the Earth-616 timeline and alters the timeline so that Gwenpool will have always been a native of Earth-616.
- The range for this is Outerversal due to Strange affecting Earth-TRN565 as well as Earth-616, two different versions of Eternity.
- IMO this should be for all SS-tier sorcerers and not just Doctor Strange due to him doing this feat pretty casually.
- Immortality Negation (Types 2 & 3) & Regeneration Negation (Low-Godly): Four Mystic Warlords (some of whom, such as Aggamon and Tiboro, being the Sorcerer Supremes of their own realms) were able to give Kaecilius the mystic capability to kill Doctor Strange, who has the above immortalities and regenerations.
- Resistance to Chaos Magic: Scarlet Witch stated that Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Doom's magic, due to it being on the level of a sorcerer supreme, was resistant to any magic she had, and that it would take weeks at best for her to weaken Doom's spell.
- Further Time Stop: Doctor Strange casually stops time.
- Further BFR & Forcefield Creation: Sorcerer Supreme Doom's magic forcefield around Latveria BFR's any incoming projectile to billions of years in the past.
- Resistance to BFR: Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Doom protected himself from Dormammu's spell that banished all heroes to another dimension.
- Advanced Causality Manipulation, Type 2 Information Manipulation, & Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation: Doctor Strange casually alters Gwenpool's personal information (which he further describes as "the evidence, the proof that you are a living being") and also moves it from the Earth-TRN565 timeline to the Earth-616 timeline and alters the timeline so that Gwenpool will have always been a native of Earth-616.
- For High-Tier Sorcerers:
- Another feat for Power Nullification: Wynn casually dispels Mia's invisibility spell
- For Lower-Level Sorcerers:
- Forcefield Creation and Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, and Electricity Manipulation: Agatha Harkness creates forcefields around both herself and Franklin Richards that protect them entirely from the fire, hailstorms, and thunderstorms of Nicholas Scratch's magic, stating that even an apprentice mystic could conjure such a simple spell.
- For Faltine Physiology & Demon Physiology:
- Stealth Mastery: Hiding oneself from magical senses is second nature to a creature of magic, from Doctor Strange (Vol. 6) #11
- Resistance to Density Manipulation: Vision's density-manipulation powers, due to being based in science, are useless against mystic beings, from Avengers West Coast (Vol. 1) #51; 1989.
- Resistance to Precognition: They are creatures of magic, and in the mystical realms time is unpredictable
- Resistance to Soul Manipulation & Curse Manipulation: Magical beings and those who have magic within them are resistant to the soul-binding curse of the Soulsword, from Mary Jane & Black Cat (Vol. 1) #4
- For Users of Basic Magic:
- Resistance to Soul Manipulation & Curse Manipulation: Magical beings and those who have magic within them are resistant to the soul-binding curse of the Soulsword, from Mary Jane & Black Cat (Vol. 1) #4
- For Hell-Lords:
- Another scan for Higher-Dimensional Existence: Blackheart, a Hell-Lord, usually exists on far more dimensions than just the standard three.
- Another scan on magic being a universal force: All living beings are made of energy, matter, and "unknowable mystic thread", from The Unbelievable Gwenpool #3
3. Seeing as The Ones who Sit Above in Shadow are referred to as "Gods Above Gods" and various similar titles, they should get God Physiology.
4. For Storm's speed section, her Infinite Speed should only apply to her Godhead and not her standard magic, as she doesn't have any actual showings of boosting her speed to this level with just plain magic while Strange, Doom, and Scarlet Witch actually do, especially since they're all high-tier sorcerers while she is a lower-level sorceress. That said, her maximum speed with the Godhead should be "likely Infinite" instead of "possibly" due to her matching the Adversary in speed.
5. For Doctor Strange:
- Causality Manipulation: Doctor Strange cut out a week of his own personal timeline and stored it away to be released only if he were to die.
- Type 1 Acausality: Similarly, Doctor Strange was unaffected by cutting out part of his own timeline, and upon briefly returning to life he interacts with this past version of himself without issue.
- Change the potency of his Resistance to Death Manipulation from Low 1-A to 1-A, since it was never changed following Death's upgrade to 1-A
- Beyond-Dimensional Existence (already on the page but without any justification) & Acausality: Types 1, 2, & 4 - Causality. When Carol Danvers absorbed the Phoenix's power, she stated that she was outside of space-time as well as out of the standard direction/flow of time entirely, and that "There was no motion. There was no before or after. There was just...everything, the cosmos, as it is through all of eternity".
- Should also apply to the Phoenix Force's hosts, such as White Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Jean Grey, since they should be similar to when Carol Danvers absorbed the Phoenix's power.
- Further BDE & Acausality Type 4: The Phoenix Force lives beyond time and space, from Uncanny X-Men Vol 2 #13
- Enhanced Resistance to: Mind Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Madness Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Unholy Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3; Withstood being in Chthon's realm without issue even though it's very nature was overwhelming Doctor Strange physically, spiritually, and emotionally, it's chaos and maleficence poisoning Strange and causing his thoughts to become maggots that ate at his sanity and were consuming "his very self", with the very energies of the dimension itself being described as "soul-devouring".)
9. God Physiology:
- Type 5 Immortality for God powers, as Gods are creatures of story that aren't "real" like physical beings are.
- Additional scan for Higher-Dimensional Existence: Olympus is a space beyond space, from Avengers: No Road Home #10. Also, Khonshu exists outside the timestream.
- Additional scans for Acausality Types 1 & 4: Olympus is a space beyond space, from Avengers: No Road Home #10. Also, Khonshu exists outside the timestream. In the mythic realms, time moves differently. Months, minutes, millennia are mixed with each other, blurred, whirred, wordsmithed in the name of pith. Also, Midgard is the home of linear time, which implicitly indicates that the other realms of Yggdrasil such as Asgard do not have linear time.
- Note, while the scans for The Ultimates (2024) #11 are from Earth-6160, Earth-6160 is just an alternate Earth-616 with some events changed by The Maker, like Loki taking over Asgard, so the mythical realms of Earth-6160 and Earth-616 should be the same.
- Stealth Mastery: Hiding oneself from magical senses is second nature to a creature of magic, from Doctor Strange (Vol. 6) #11
- Resistance to Density Manipulation: Vision's density-manipulation powers, due to being based in science, are useless against mystic beings, from Avengers West Coast (Vol. 1) #51; 1989.
- Resistance to Soul Manipulation & Curse Manipulation: Magical beings and those who have magic within them are resistant to the soul-binding curse of the Soulsword, from Mary Jane & Black Cat (Vol. 1) #4
10. For Scarlet Witch:
- Move all the abilities of the Advanced Usages of Chaos/Hex Magic from the Marvel Magic Page to Scarlet Witch's page, considering they're literally all done by her and only her. Other people use and/or resist Basic Chaos Magic so that can stay on the magic page for now.
- Can cut off Dormammu's connection to the Dark Dimension. Not sure what ability it is, but it has High 1-B range.
- Creation: Can conjure a young star (not sure what power this is).
- Advanced Telepathy: As the living Darkhold, she can sense Baron Mordo's thoughts before he's even finished thinking them.
- High 8-C Attack Potency/Durability (physically), Building level Striking Strength, & Martial Arts: Fought somewhat on par with a possessed Black Cat, taking hits from her and being stated to have been taught by Captain America.
- Immortality (Type 3) & Regeneration: Low-Mid, possibly Mid. Easily healed from being vertically bisected by Nicholas Scratch.
- Radiation Manipulation: Can unleash mystic radiation from the Night Star of Ghennthor.
- Energy Manipulation: Can create an ambulance truck out of magic energy. The Claws of the Constant Bloodline, a spell found deep within the Darkhold, can summon mystic arms to restrain an opponent.
- Extrasensory Perception: The Sentry Eye of Argus is a Darkhold Charm that reveals all hostile presences, including invisible ghosts.
- Weapon Creation: Can create a hex pike, which is the focused edge of her ties to the probability field.
- Time Manipulation & Time Stop: Can use a chronometric enchantment to affect her target's subjective time or stop it entirely.
- Reality Warping: Can shake local reality just for the sake of finding a mystic thermal emission.
- Transmutation: Casually transforms a charlatan into a houseplant (while still keeping him alive).
- Purification & Mind Manipulation: Scarlet Witch on the spot creates a new counterspell of cleansing fire that purges the dark death magic from a group of cultists by purifying their minds and altering their beliefs, for in witchcraft belief has form.
- Is also a feat for her intelligence due to her creating a new counterspell on the spot to counter her opponent's uncounterable spell.
- Healing & Sealing: Portals. Cardea's Grip is a spell of healing and closure, though on its own it can't close a dimensional wound.
- Magical Amplification: Scarlet Witch can amplify the effects of her spells by infusing them with a luck hex.
- Reality Warping, Physics Manipulation & Air Manipulation: The geometry, physics, local reality, and atmosphere of Scarlet Witch's underground chamber are all sustained by her underlying spellcraft.
- Resistance to Acid Manipulation: Was unharmed by a blast of corrosive mystic excreta despite there being no counterspell for it.
- Resistance to Death Manipulation: Easily no-sold a blast of death magic (with the blast's nature described as being that of death) and inverted it back at its user.
- Resistance to Fire Manipulation (Using magic, Scarlet Witch had no issue swallowing fire.)
- Remove this from the Lower-level Sorcerer section of the magic page, since this is Scarlet Witch-specific.
11. For Doctor Doom:
- Further Social Influencing:
- 44% of the world supported his global rule after just a few months when his approval rating had initially been zero, and even the likes of Thor and Carol Danvers eventually begin to think that he is a good ruler after a few months of his reign
- Doom also convinced all the world's leaders to support him without using any magic, simply by giving them all exactly what they wanted.
- Further Supernatural Willpower & Immense Pain Tolerance : Even after Dormammu twisted and snapped Doom's limbs and bones, Doctor Doom rejects any notion of defeat with the entirety of his soul, before moving his shattered limbs through sheer willpower despite the pain of just barely moving a single finger being "indescribable". Shortly after, Doctor Doom's willpower and sheer hatred let him ignore the screaming agony of his body as he magically holds his bones together, despite raw bone edges cutting across his nerve endings. Was able to tear out a piece of his own soul despite the immense pain.
12. God Physiology for The One Above All: Religions are blind men touching God, Nightmare uses the example of the parable of the elephant to explain the relationship between One Above All - Humanity/Belief. Which means that the New Gods like Odin, Thor, Zeus, etc. are a subjective and limited expression created by humanity to try to reach The One Above All. Also, all Gods are facets of the One Above All, from Loki Vol 3 #3
13. For Mindless Ones:
- Beyond Dimensional Existence (Type 1) & Acausality: Types 1 & 4. The Mindless Ones are an expression of magical energy, a vibrational pattern between magical dimensions and exist in mystic realms such as the Dark Dimension, with mystic realms all being a place where "time is unpredictable". Also, the Dark Dimension itself is a space beyond space and a time before time, and where neither time nor matter is real, and time does not exist. Even the edge of the Dark Dimension is "a place which is less than place and a time which is more than time", where the laws of space time as such differ greatly from those on Earth. Dormammu, a Faltine, views time and space as "dirty little geometries" in comparison to the Dark Dimension. Time and Space were foreign phenomena to Dormammu, who was used to the nature of the Dark Dimension.
- Resistance to Precognition: The Mindless Ones are an expression of magical energy, a vibrational pattern between magical dimensions and exist in mystic realms such as the Dark Dimension, with mystic realms all being a place where "time is unpredictable".
- Resistance to:
- Extreme Temperature Manipulation and Gravity Manipulation: The Mindless Ones are an expression of magical energy, a vibrational pattern between magical dimensions, and magic subverts and transcends the "immanent laws" of the preset scientific universal constants such as gravity, friction, and heat.
- Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation & Matter Manipulation: The Mindless Ones are an expression of magical energy, a vibrational pattern between magical dimensions, as such their magical nature and existence in only magical realms (mainly the Dark Dimension) means that they are fundamentally unscientific and live in a world of "legend and symbol", outside the realm of science and law. The Mindless are inhabitants of the Mystic Realms, whose fundamental properties are governed by magical energies as opposed to laws of physics, and the Mystic Realms are inhabited by beings who can circumvent the natural, rationalistic laws of physical matter.
- Information Manipulation (Type 1), Perception Manipulation, Information Analysis, Mathematics Manipulation, Quantum Manipulation & Data Manipulation (The Mindless Ones are an expression of magical energy, a vibrational pattern between magical dimensions, and magic is beyond numbers, theorems and quantum physics. Can survive in the Mystic realms, where the individuals are in danger of constant sensory overload and hallucinations)
- Reality Warping (John Priest's wish-making, which works by bending reality, is entirely useless against mystic beings)
- Space-Time Manipulation: The Mindless Ones are an expression of magical energy, a vibrational pattern between magical dimensions and as such are from the mystic realms, and magic has repeatedly been stated to exist before time itself and as making up the mystic realms which have entirely different laws of time and space compared to the normal universe.
- Density Manipulation: Vision's density-manipulation powers, due to being based in science, are useless against mystic beings, from Avengers West Coast (Vol. 1) #51; 1989.
14. For Dormammu:
- BFR: Even while still in the Dark Dimension, Dormammu easily sent all heroes on Earth to a collapsing pocket dimension, doing so as quickly and easily as thought itself.
- Duplication: Created duplicates of himself to attack and overwhelm Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Doom.
- Telekinesis: Uses telekinesis to torture Doom by twisting his limbs until his bones snap.
- Summoning, Portal Creation, and Resistance to Sealing: Created portals to summon an army of demons, and Sorcerer Supreme Doom's spells couldn't seal his portals.
- For his intelligence section: Lured Doctor Doom close to him so that his demons could rip away the Eye of Agamotto from Doom, and knew both the only way that Doctor Doom could defeat him on his own and that Doom's ego would never allow him to use that option.
- Immortality Negation (Types 2 [Low-Godly], 3, 4, 5, 6, & 8): Mephisto indicated that the Living Tribunal can erase Gods and Demons, among other visitors to the Infinite Embassy, from existence entirely.
- The Type 5 negation comes from Gods getting Type 5 Immortality in my above proposal
16. For Storm:
- Further Resistance to Mind Manipulation & Telepathy: Is immune to telepathy
17. For Loki:
- Resistance to Telepathy: Stated that Doctor Strange couldn't telepathically enter his mind
18. For Mephisto:
- Shapeshifting & Passive Madness Manipulation: His true form would drive anyone who looked at it mad, so he chooses to turn into different forms.
19. For the Griever at The End of All Things:
- Resistance to Time Manipulation & Time Stop as well as further justification for Type 4 Acausality: Should be of the same nature as her Endlings, who are unbounded by time and thus unaffected by alterations to their subjective time such as it coming to a complete stop.
- Passive Probability Manipulation Negation: When her Tychometric Aura interacted with Scarlet Witch's probability hex, it caused Scarlet Witch's probability hex and all the physics and local reality in the room sustained by the probability hex to collapse, and left Scarlet Witch temporarily unable to use her probability-based hex magic.
- Nightmare should have Demon Physiology listed in his P&A, as he is stated to be a demon.
22. For Knull:
- God Physiology: Is constantly referred to as a God (such as here and here), plus his profile page, so he should have this.
Full Agreements: @ActuallySpaceMan42, @Maverick_Zero_X, @Theglassman12
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