Bill Cipher CRT Part 2

[Ultimate-Rex1]

This is Rage Power.

Idk it sams like it's Supernatural Willpower through anger, as he was insulted and shaken by Bill, which made his anger increase than if to increase his power and free himself

 

[StrymULTRA]

You said it yourself, you believe that characters that endure suffering is the basis for supernatural willpower, if we use that logic, wouldn't that make Bill Cipher a user since he is suffering from being in the Theraprsim but refuses to give up.

Nothing says he will overcome it besides his own words though.

We use most of his statements of the BoB/Reddit AMA because most of the time they're proved right from other stuff beyond his words, but this one nah, it does not have this luxury.

The point is that regeneration and resistance to pain are separate. Trying to say Bill only ignores pain because of regeneration is not a good reason to invalid Bill from having supernatural willpower.

Yeah, and you used a character whose regen is not instantaneous like Bill's to prove that point, bravo!

Here is the thing. Resisting electricity is only one feat so that alone won't count as supernatural willpower.

That's a good start.

Bill has dozens of supernatural willpower feats.

Don't use hyperbole, coz that implies literally 24+ instances lmao.

Going through the multiverse

Every adventurer has SW now.

spending trillions of years in the nightmare dimension

LITERALLY DEBUNKED 3 TIMES ALREADY, you're getting annoying by spamming this over and over. Saying constantly it's valid won't make it magically qualify suddenly.

can shrug off injures like be split apart, removing his skin, would rather spend all the time in the world escape

Damn so the whole debate above didn't happen...

would rather spend all the time in the world escape the Theraprsim his own way despite suffering in there and decided to avoid the easy way to leave.

Nothing says he'd be able to "leave with ease", given that the Theraprism is outside every iteration of space and time, otherwise the point of him needing the reader of the BoB to escape would be null.

Also, Ford has supernatural willpower even though his feats of willpower are not as impressive as Bill's

Because he's a human and Bill is not (2).

Idk it sams like it's Supernatural Willpower through anger, as he was insulted and shaken by Bill, which made his anger increase than if to increase his power and free himself

That's indeed just rage power though. Do we give SW to also Hulk for that?

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Idk it sams like it's Supernatural Willpower through anger, as he was insulted and shaken by Bill, which made his anger increase than if to increase his power and free himself

Calling it “Supernatural Willpower through anger” is just a dressed-up way of saying the exact same thing.

 

[VIZION99]

Nothing says he will overcome it besides his own words though.

Can still be used a supporting evidence. Also, he did not just said it, he did it too. If he given up, he would have reincarnated like what the theraprism wanted but he has not.

We use most of his statements of the BoB/Reddit AMA because most of the time they're proved right from other stuff beyond his words, but this one nah, it does not have this luxury.

Don't see why when there are other factors that support his words.

Yeah, and you used a character whose regen is not instantaneous like Bill's to prove that point, bravo!

But the point is that regen is meant to heal, not ignore pain which is separate.

That's a good start.

thanks

Don't use hyperbole, coz that implies literally 24+ instances lmao.

Not sure what scan you consider a hyperbole to you.

Every adventurer has SW now.

It's just support evidence, for example, Ford also has this to support his supernatural willpower.

LITERALLY DEBUNKED 3 TIMES ALREADY, you're getting annoying by spamming this over and over. Saying constantly it's valid won't make it magically qualify suddenly.

Because it is clearly a supernatural willpower feat. One of Ford's supernatural willpower feat is entering the nightmare realm and since Bill stayed there for trillions of years, it would be superior to Ford's feat. In general, staying in the Nightmare dimension for that long is beyond normal willpower.

Damn so the whole debate above didn't happen...

Don't see how you disagree.

Nothing says he'd be able to "leave with ease", given that the Theraprism is outside every iteration of space and time, otherwise the point of him needing the reader of the BoB to escape would be null.

Let me explain in better detail. Bill would have easily been freed and given a new life if he were to improve himself but he did not and tied to use the book in attempt to escape. What makes this a supernatural feat is that Bill is suffering from being in the theraprism but would rather open all the time in the world to find someone to order to leave in his own way instead of the easy way where he reincarnates for redeeming himself

Because he's a human and Bill is not (2).

That's like trying to say any non-human character can't be a user too. Overall, this reasoning does not make much sense in my opinion.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can still be used a supporting evidence. Also, he did not just said it, he did it too. If he given up, he would have reincarnated like what the theraprism wanted but he has not.

He just happens to be more stubborn than the rest, given that he's at the maximum threat level.

Don't see how you disagree.

I literally have said why, multiple times. If you just ignore it and go back to square one I cannot do much to convince you.

Let me explain in better detail. Bill would have easily been freed and given a new life if he were to improve himself but he did not and tied to use the book in attempt to escape. What makes this a supernatural feat is that Bill is suffering from being in the theraprism but would rather open all the time in the world to find someone to order to leave in his own way instead of the easy way where he reincarnates for redeeming himself

That is literally just being stubborn, come on lol. Plus on the last pages you can clearly see that he's distressed and starting to break, a showing that the therapy is indeed working on him.

That's like trying to say any non-human character can't be a user too.

If said Non-Humans have parameters that cannot be compared to normal living beings, then yeah, they do not.

Back to Sonic and Godzilla, for example, the former is still clearly sapient and behaving like a human overall, the latter is just... an animal. A smart one but still an animal with intellect comparable to real ones. Bill on the other hand is a demon that's trillion years old, able to process literal infinite information and whose entire thing is making no sense in our world's logic. You can see why he cannot be the same as these two.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Can still be used a supporting evidence. Also, he did not just said it, he did it too. If he given up, he would have reincarnated like what the theraprism wanted but he has not.

Don't see why when there are other factors that support his words.

Because it is clearly a supernatural willpower feat.

Not sure what scan you consider a hyperbole to you.

Saying 'he didn’t give up' doesn’t automatically make it a Supernatural Willpower feat. Acting against reincarnation or undergoing therapy doesn’t inherently imply some transcendent force of will either. You’re treating normal psychological or narrative developments like they're evidence of Supernatural Willpower, which they’re not.

You also have several people in this thread explaining why this interpretation doesn't hold up. Yet you continue to insist on framing these moments - like resisting therapy or traveling the multiverse - as examples of Supernatural Willpower. They simply don’t qualify. These elements might support character development, sure, but they are irrelevant to the power you're trying to argue for. Which, again, is not what you think it is.

 

[Ebihara]

I agree with wonder and strym.

 

[VIZION99]

He just happens to be more stubborn than the rest, given that he's at the maximum threat level.

Maybe

I literally have said why, multiple times. If you just ignore it and go back to square one I cannot do much to convince you.

I already explained that he does not always enjoy pain.

That is literally just being stubborn, come on lol. Plus on the last pages you can clearly see that he's distressed and starting to break, a showing that the therapy is indeed working on him.

Bill says he's fine, showing he is enduring it, If you look at the very last pages. His eye glows blue, showing that he is planing something and is far from being broken down into giving up,

If said Non-Humans have parameters that cannot be compared to normal living beings, then yeah, they do not.

Back to Sonic and Godzilla, for example, the former is still clearly sapient and behaving like a human overall, the latter is just... an animal. A smart one but still an animal with intellect comparable to real ones. Bill on the other hand is a demon that's trillion years old, able to process literal infinite information and whose entire thing is making no sense in our world's logic. You can see why he cannot be the same as these two.

Except Bill is clearly sapient and behaving like a human too. He can form relationships, he can suffer from trauma, can be haunted by his own past, feeling insecure about his own dimension.

 

[VIZION99]

Saying 'he didn’t give up' doesn’t automatically make it a Supernatural Willpower feat. Acting against reincarnation or undergoing therapy doesn’t inherently imply some transcendent force of will either. You’re treating normal psychological or narrative developments like they're evidence of Supernatural Willpower, which they’re not.

You also have several people in this thread explaining why this interpretation doesn't hold up. Yet you continue to insist on framing these moments - like resisting therapy or traveling the multiverse - as examples of Supernatural Willpower. They simply don’t qualify. These elements might support character development, sure, but they are irrelevant to the power you're trying to argue for. Which, again, is not what you think it is.

Normally, your right.

Reisting reincernation or therapy on its own would not be supernatural willpower.

However, Bill would spend all the time in the world trying to escape on his own. Also, he is suffering in the theraprism but he refuses to give up.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I already explained that he does not always enjoy pain.

In clearly out of context situations.

Bill says he's fine, showing he is enduring it, If you look at the very last pages.

So the images of him being clearly in agony are a lie. Got it.

Except Bill is clearly sapient and behaving like a human too. He knows the mind well, he can form relationships, he can suffer from trauma, can be haunted by his own past, feeling insecure about his own dimension.

I mean, he's definitely able to mimic humans given his higher intellect, but everything else about him just is not comparable.

 

[VIZION99]

In clearly out of context situations.

Not sure what you mean by that.

So the images of him being clearly in agony are a lie. Got it.

They can also be images of him being in anger too possibly.

I mean, he's definitely able to mimic humans given his higher intellect, but everything else about him just is not comparable.

So you believe he faked his relationship, trauma, insecurity, and being haunted by his past?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not sure what you mean by that.

... I already did explain, and I don't like your method of spamming the same argument over and over ngl.

Your examples are Bill having his weak point targeted, then of his death, which indeed would make him go panic.

These aren't instances that can be attributed to his default state, as normally he enjoys pain, he wasn't bothered by having his hat blasted from that gun either (and that's a part of his body as it's made of meat too, remember).

They can also be images of him being in anger too possibly.

This is too speculative. His anger can also be from him starting to break from the therapy by your own way of thinking.

So you believe he faked his relationship, trauma, insecurity, and being haunted by his past?

To be fair, for him Ford was just another pawn to manipulate, even if he eventually began to get closer to him before the truth of the portal came to be. Also while he indeed got traumatized from the destruction of his world, that seemed to just fuel his goals more as seen in the actual show.

Plus I don't even say he's faked, just that stuff is obvious for someone like him, just that the reason behind him withstanding the NR can be attributed to something else than Willpower (like, again, his nature).

 

[VIZION99]

... I already did explain, and I don't like your method of spamming the same argument over and over ngl.

Your examples are Bill having his weak point targeted, then of his death, which indeed would make him go panic.

These aren't instances that can be attributed to his default state, as normally he enjoys pain, he wasn't bothered by having his hat blasted from that gun either (and that's a part of his body as it's made of meat too, remember).

I guess.

This is too speculative. His anger can also be from him starting to break from the therapy by your own way of thinking.

If he really is breaking like you say, wouldn't that count as mental endurance? He seemly is breaking though he made it clear is not giving up and is seemly plotting something. Showing that he is enduring it too.

To be fair, for him Ford was just another pawn to manipulate, even if he eventually began to get closer to him before the truth of the portal came to be. Also while he indeed got traumatized from the destruction of his world, that seemed to just fuel his goals more as seen in the actual show.

Bill also has denial and fear. Human like traits.

Plus I don't even say he's faked, just that stuff is obvious for someone like him, just that the reason behind him withstanding the NR can be attributed to something else than Willpower (like, again, his nature).

Ok, let's say his nature makes him somehow immune to nightmare realm's insanity effect. It's still going to be a supernatural willpower feat because being trapped in there for trillions of years will eventually worn down someone's mental state yet Bill shrugged it off.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Alright, this is getting tiring.

If he really is breaking like you say, wouldn't that count as mental endurance? He seemly is breaking though he made it clear is not giving up and is seemly plotting something. Showing that he is enduring it too.

Yeah, back again to "only his own words in a clearly antagonistic and boastful tone with no real back-up" issue.

Ok, let's say his nature makes him somehow immune to nightmare realm's insanity effect. It's still going to be a supernatural willpower feat because being trapped in there for trillions of years will eventually worn down someone's mental state yet Bill shrugged it off.

So everyone resisting mind hax should have SW too?

 

[VIZION99]

Yeah, back again to "only his own words in a clearly antagonistic and boastful tone with no real back-up" issue.

But the end shows Bill's eye glowing too.

So everyone resisting mind hax should have SW too?

Resisting mind hax is considered another ability of supernatural willpower.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But the end shows Bill's eye glowing too.

And? No, seriously, why does that matter lol.

Resisting mind hax is considered another ability of supernatural willpower.

SW for every Psychic/Dark Type Pokémon moment (no).

 

[VIZION99]

And? No, seriously, why does that matter lol.

It shows he has not given up and is planning something

SW for every Psychic/Dark Type Pokémon moment (no).

The supernatural willpower page itself says that resisting mind haxcan count as supernatural willpower.

Also, I wasn't even talking about mind hax, I am talking about being in the nightmare realm for a very long time would wear down one's mental state, even with resistance to mind hax.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It shows he has not given up and is planning something

Definitely true and realiable (it's not without further evidence).

The supernatural willpower page itself says that resisting mind haxcan count as supernatural willpower.

But not the opposite lmao.

I am talking about being in the nightmare realm for a very long time would wear down one's mental state, even with resistance to mind hax.

Or... Bill just has Resistance to that for unrelated reasons to willpower, again.

You're getting really boring, annoying, and stubborn at repeating this. I am pretty sure that there is a rule against stonewalling like this.

 

[VIZION99]

You're getting really boring, annoying, and stubborn at repeating this. I am pretty sure that there is a rule against stonewalling like this.

If you don't agree with me, that is fine.

 

[Ebihara]

I dont think yall have really said anything new in a whole page. Let's just wait for staff to evulate what yall have said.

 

[VIZION99]

I dont think yall have really said anything new in a whole page. Let's just wait for staff to evulate what yall have said.

I agree with that.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Possibly Existence Erasure (this monster can erase with lasers and Bill would scale to this because he is source of all weirdness)

not sure if anyone talked about it, but anyway that was not erasure, he lasers the ear, it turns black and them explodes into smoke, it seems more like he burned and blew up the ear

 

[VIZION99]

not sure if anyone talked about it, but anyway that was not erasure, he lasers the ear, it turns black and them explodes into smoke, it seems more like he burned and blew up the ear

thanks for telling me.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Corruption type 2 (He can cause a glitch effect that glitches his body and his surroundings. He also caused someone to glitch through the ceiling and turning someone's head into a CGI watermelon)

This would be Type 1 & 2, since in the first scan, it's through his body touching the surroundings, and in the second, it seemed non-direct.

Supernatural Willpower: Bill has traveled through the multiverse. Has spend trillions of years inside of the nightmare dimension despite the nightmare dimension's ability to cause mental deterioration. Has been waiting an eternity to meet the reader. He is perfectly fine having his body splitting apart and can shrug off removing his own skin. Bill says he has all the time in the world, Bill also refuses to change when in the Theraprism, claiming that he learned nothing and implies he never gives up, not caring he gets to return with a new life if he chooses to change, making it clear he would never give up)

Pretty sure Bill went insane.

Temperature Manipulation and Deconstruction (Bill showed everyone the third dimension which caused his home dimension to be burned out of existence)

Just Fire Manipulation.

Justification for Dimensional Travel (He can travel though the multiverse)

Sure.

Upgrade for Text Manipulation (Can cover text with glitches)

Can just be added to his already present Text Manipulation.

Enhanced Empowerment should be changed to Accelerated Development (Passive; Physical Stats: His powers grow stronger every minute)

Should include that this is with Weirdmageddon, not something he has normally.

 

[VIZION99]

This would be Type 1 & 2, since in the first scan, it's through his body touching the surroundings, and in the second, it seemed non-direct.

Understandable though I also want to mention how I want text manipulation to be separated from corruption.

Pretty sure Bill went insane.

In most of the scans. Bill kept his mind intact like when he spend a long time in the nightmare dimension. The only time he really went "insane" at the end of The book of Bill but it's questionable if he really insane or he just angry the reader. Keep on mind, Ford has supernatural willpower for enduring pain and staying in nightmare realm. Considering Bill can also be In the nightmare realm and endure pain while keeping his mind intact, he should have supernatural willpower too.

Just Fire Manipulation.

This would also count as Deconstruction because fire does not burn things out of existence.

Sure.

great

Can just be added to his already present Text Manipulation.

I agree

Should include that this is with Weirdmageddon, not something he has normally.

True

 

[VIZION99]

I also had to change accelerated devolvement: physical states to abilities since its his powers that get stronger and not physical stats.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

In most of the scans. Bill kept his mind intact like when he spend a long time in the nightmare dimension. The only time he really went "insane" at the end of The book of Bill but it's questionable if he really insane or he just angry the reader. Keep on mind, Ford has supernatural willpower for enduring pain and staying in nightmare realm. Considering Bill can also be In the nightmare realm and endure pain while keeping his mind intact, he should have supernatural willpower too.

One of your scans shows he can't even recall what happened in his dimension without blacking out.

This would also count as Deconstruction because fire does not burn things out of existence.

Fire Manipulation can do whatever the profile says it can; this is fiction.

 

[VIZION99]

One of your scans shows he can't even recall what happened in his dimension without blacking out.

That's is his original home dimension, not the nightmare realm

Fire Manipulation can do whatever the profile says it can; this is fiction.

Maybe it can be added as a upgrade for fire manipulation

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

That's is his original home dimension, not the nightmare realm

It shows he's not fully there mentally. But I'll go neutral on this point and let some other staff tackle it.

 

[VIZION99]

It shows he's not fully there mentally. But I'll go neutral on this point and let some other staff tackle it.

Not sure how does that have anything to do with willpower, it just shows he has trauma.

And I am pretty sure that even supernatural willpower users can have trauma too.

 

[FinePoint]

Base key
Corruption type 2 (He can cause a glitch effect that glitches his body and his surroundings. He also caused someone to glitch through the ceiling and turning someone's head into a CGI watermelon)
Text Manipulation should no longer be combined with Bill's Corruption since he would have 2 types.

Feels more like his normal reality warping.

Supernatural Willpower: Bill has traveled through the multiverse. Has spend trillions of years inside of the nightmare dimension despite the nightmare dimension's ability to cause mental deterioration. Has been waiting an eternity to meet the reader. He is perfectly fine having his body splitting apart and can shrug off removing his own skin. Bill says he has all the time in the world, Bill also refuses to change when in the Theraprism, claiming that he learned nothing and implies he never gives up, not caring he gets to return with a new life if he chooses to change, making it clear he would never give up)

Iffy on this. The waiting stuff is mitigated by him being immortal, the madness stuff mitigated by him presumably being resistant to it, the pain stuff mitigated by it being unclear if it was actually painful, and the last statements are just kind of vague.

Temperature Manipulation and Deconstruction (Bill showed everyone the third dimension which caused his home dimension to be burned out of existence)

This was more of a consequence of showing them, not something he did directly.

Justification for Dimensional Travel (He can travel though the multiverse)

Seems fine.

Upgrade for Text Manipulation (Can cover text with glitches)

That can be added, sure.

Weirdmageddon key
Enhanced Empowerment should be changed to Accelerated Development (Passive; Abilities: His powers grow stronger every minute)

Seems fine.

 

[VIZION99]

Feels more like his normal reality warping.

Bill only has reality warping in Weirdmageddon key, not his base key.

Iffy on this. The waiting stuff is mitigated by him being immortal, the madness stuff mitigated by him presumably being resistant to it, the pain stuff mitigated by it being unclear if it was actually painful, and the last statements are just kind of vague.

Resistance to Madness manipulation does not mitigated supernatural willpower, it could simply be a combination of the both, an example is Rick. Also, Bill can clearly feel pain.

Keep on mind that Ford is a supernatural willpower user for enduring pain and surviving nightmare realm, similar to Bill.

 

[FinePoint]

Bill only has reality warping in Weirdmageddon key, not his base key.

Well, this might be an argument to add Limited Reality Warping to his base key then.

Resistance to Madness manipulation does not mitigated supernatural willpower, it could simply be a combination of the both, an example is Rick. Also, Bill can clearly feel pain.

Keep on mind that Ford is a supernatural willpower user for enduring pain and surviving nightmare realm, similar to Bill.

Well, I'm still not super convinced those specific things were painful or if the skin thing even happened and/or if Supernatural Willpower would be needed to do it, and I meant more I'm unsure if the nightmare realm was actually have any effect on Bill at all.

Would you be willing to compromise down to a Possibly?

 

[VIZION99]

Well, this might be an argument to add Limited Reality Warping to his base key then.

Well, I'm still not super convinced those specific things were painful or if the skin thing even happened and/or if Supernatural Willpower would be needed to do it, and I meant more I'm unsure if the nightmare realm was actually have any effect on Bill at all.

Would you be willing to compromise down to a Possibly?

Ok, can you tell me what's approved in the CRT and what's not so I know what to apply? (possibly supernatural willpower is fine)

 

[FinePoint]

Ok, can you tell me what's approved in the CRT and what's not so I know what to apply? (possibly supernatural willpower is fine)

I'm not entirely sure. I also think you need another vote, since it's Gravity Falls.

 

[VIZION99]

I'm not entirely sure. I also think you need another vote, since it's Gravity Falls.

Are you sure it really requires 3 votes? Because the previous Bill Cipher CRT got approved with 2 votes.

Bill Cipher CRT

All these abilities for base key: Immorality Type 2: Bill seems unfazed when he fall apart. He is also unbothered by the large crack that splits his body Unholy Manipulation: Bill's powers are unholy Transformation: Bill can turn into his monster form 0:15 Bodily Weaponry: Can use his teeth to...

vsbattles.com

 

[FinePoint]

Are you sure it really requires 3 votes? Because the previous Bill Cipher CRT got approved with 2 votes.

Bill Cipher CRT

All these abilities for base key: Immorality Type 2: Bill seems unfazed when he fall apart. He is also unbothered by the large crack that splits his body Unholy Manipulation: Bill's powers are unholy Transformation: Bill can turn into his monster form 0:15 Bodily Weaponry: Can use his teeth to...

vsbattles.com

Well, I think @Mr. Bambu thought so, at least.

 

[VIZION99]

Well, I think @Mr. Bambu thought so, at least.

When I asked if that CRT is approved, even you told me it is approved.

 

[FinePoint]

When I asked if that CRT is approved, even you told me it is approved.

Well, I am far from perfect, but also there's an ongoing staff thread aiming to make a list of verses needing three votes and I believe Gravity Falls is currently included.

 

[VIZION99]

Well, I am far from perfect, but also there's an ongoing staff thread aiming to make a list of verses needing three votes and I believe Gravity Falls is currently included.

Ok, understandable