New physical size of the DC universe (upgrade)

[TheBestBoi]

Pretty simple and straightforward, we all know the physical size of the DC universe, it's accepted to be 100 trillion light years in diameter, not infinite, but possibly endlessly expanding.

According to New Gods (2024) #1, it is at least a couple of yottaparsecs in size, from the distance of the source wall to earth
Context is, justice league kills darkseid and he blows himself up in dc all in special (2024). It was so bright, Amaxazu sees it all the way from the source wall


1 Yottaparsec = 3262000000000000000000000 LY
2 Yotaparsec = 6524000000000000000000000 LY (radius) (new low end size of DC universe)

what this affects? speed calculations, such as,
wonder woman's shattered god feat
val zod travels from the edge of the universe to earth
superman flies to the edge of the universe
green lanterns go to the edge of the universe
here https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/DC_Comics#Speed

 

[TheBestBoi]

if someone could calculate wally's speed feat too, i'd appreciate it

 

[Hasty12345]

That's really specific, I agree for now.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems reasonable.

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Excellence616 @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @Maverick_Zero_X @Robo432343 @LordTracer @Alonik @ProfectusInfinity @PrinceStories @Asterotheology @Zensum @KingEzran @Dark-Carioca @AerrowStorm1 @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Armorchompy @Sandman31 @Osemere

What do you think?

 

[MeiouHades]

Seems simple, agreed.

 

[Elizio33]

Agreed.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Simple enough. Agree with the revision.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Looks fine to me.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

This is fine.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Seems simple enough.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mean, if it is based on a given unit, I think it is fine. I'd take that method over the infamous method of multiplying the "50 trillion lightyears in a second" and assuming that lasts forever and multiplies it by how many seconds old the universe is.

But this is alright.

 

[Firestorm808]

To clarify, you want to use a 2024 feat to retroactively change the universe size from the previous versions of the multiverse?

Doesn't that ignore the size statements made during the era of the previous feats?

 

[Antvasima]

To clarify, you want to use a 2024 feat to retroactively change the universe size from the previous versions of the multiverse?

Doesn't that ignore the size statements made during the era of the previous feats?

That seems like a good point.

 

[TheBestBoi]

To clarify, you want to use a 2024 feat to retroactively change the universe size from the previous versions of the multiverse?

Doesn't that ignore the size statements made during the era of the previous feats?

if we're talking about size statements of the universe then it was always either infinite/endlessly expanding/not infinite(source wall). the 100 trillion statement was agreed to be it's baseline size but even then, that was the distance from earth to maxima's galaxy, not earth to the source wall

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To clarify, you want to use a 2024 feat to retroactively change the universe size from the previous versions of the multiverse?

Doesn't that ignore the size statements made during the era of the previous feats?

That could perhaps be a good point.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

To clarify, you want to use a 2024 feat to retroactively change the universe size from the previous versions of the multiverse?

Doesn't that ignore the size statements made during the era of the previous feats?

The 100 trillion LYs statement currently in use wasn't referring to the edge of the universe, so using this wouldn't really be contradictory.

 

[Firestorm808]

The 100 trillion LYs statement currently in use wasn't referring to the edge of the universe, so using this wouldn't really be contradictory.

That doesn't really answer my question, though.

We can say that the current universe is at least a couple yottaparsecs in size, but why should this apply to New Earth or New 52?

 

[PrinceofPein]

In agreement with Firestorm

 

[TheBestBoi]

That doesn't really answer my question, though.

We can say that the current universe is at least a couple yottaparsecs in size, but why should this apply to New Earth or New 52?

its the same universe? it was never said to be bigger currently

 

[Firestorm808]

its the same universe? it was never said to be bigger currently

You are suggesting that the size of the a universe remains the same across many years of different writers and multiverse reboots?

 

[TheBestBoi]

You are suggesting that the size of the a universe remains the same across many years of different writers and multiverse reboots?

reboots has only ever been important for character and lore changes, still new earth was always earth 0

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

You are suggesting that the size of the a universe remains the same across many years of different writers and multiverse reboots?

I don't see how changes in history would mean a change in the universe's size?

 

[Elizio33]

We can simply use this as further evidence that a universe in DC is larger than the real universe, but is still finite in size.

 

[Firestorm808]

I just want to make sure we're all on the same page with how we're treating universe distance related feats past to present.

@Elizio33

Should we add to the cosmology page that there aren't any statements indicating a significant change in universe size between reboots and that we consider the size relatively the same from past to present?

 

[Elizio33]

I just want to make sure we're all on the same page with how we're treating universe distance related feats past to present.

@Elizio33

Should we add to the cosmology page that there aren't any statements indicating a significant change in universe size between reboots and that we consider the size relatively the same from past to present?

Yes, definitely.

 

[TheBestBoi]

@Firestorm808 @Elizio33 so its agreed now right? so we can close this thread

 

[Adr10K]

Idk, if The Universe is constantly changing throughout the history, assuming it's exactly the same size for over a 3 massive reboots seems a little off. And trying to retroactively scale it to Comics a decade older than this seems even worse. Since those measurements weren't considered when writing them.

 

[TheBestBoi]

Idk, if The Universe is constantly changing throughout the history, assuming it's exactly the same size for over a 3 massive reboots seems a little off. And trying to retroactively scale it to Comics a decade older than this seems even worse.

what happened in reboots = superman's backstory was changed/rewritten/added/expanded
what never happened = they made the main universe a bit bigger every time because that was never the point of reboots

Since those measurements weren't considered when writing them.

they don't, but still we use the 100 trillion light years statement for universe traversing calcs even though no writer has ever considered that, it's inaccurate too since that's the distance of maxima's galaxy from earth despite most of the feats I pointed out have generalized statements that being most of it are said to be at the edge of the universe which never had an actual measurement until now

 

[Adr10K]

what happened in reboots = superman's backstory was changed/rewritten/added/expanded
what never happened = they made the main universe a bit bigger every time because that was never the point of reboots

I'm pretty sure Apokolips location got retconned in New 52, meaning the universe itself was altered as well.

they don't, but still we use the 100 trillion light years statement for universe traversing calcs even though no writer has ever considered that, it's inaccurate too since that's the distance of maxima's galaxy from earth despite most of the feats I pointed out have generalized statements that being most of it are said to be at the edge of the universe which never had an actual measurement until now

That's different, a writer most follow a linear narrative when writing a comic, so saying "They don't know this" when they at least have someone watching their work. But this doesn't happen when the idea itself hasn't been created yet.

 

[TheBestBoi]

I'm pretty sure Apokolips location got retconned in New 52, meaning the universe itself was altered as well.

That's different, a writer most follow a linear narrative when writing a comic, so saying "They don't know this" when they at least have someone watching their work. But this doesn't happen when the idea itself hasn't been created yet.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about the origins and history of new gods, not location

measurements don't affect the narrative at all, the 100 trillion light year statement was a one-off thing, it's never referenced again since it doesn't affect the plot

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Adr10K seems to make sense here.

 

[Adr10K]

I'm pretty sure you're talking about the origins and history of new gods, not location

Bog really, there was a statement in N52 saying Apokolips was IN the Universe, and even in Pre-crisis, some statements of the universe having its real size existed, so yeah, the Universe has clearly changed throughput DC's continuities. I mean, even Krypton location has changed.

measurements don't affect the narrative at all, the 100 trillion light year statement was a one-off thing, it's never referenced again since it doesn't affect the plot

Ok, but that has nothing to do with my point? There's a explicit statements of them having a universe size to work with, being referenced in various comics, meaning some writers knew about this when doing their work. This is trying to scale an issue over 15 years newer than the feats themselves, it seems too much of a stretch.

 

[Firestorm808]

As an overall standard for any verse decades in the making, how should we handle possibly retroactive information? IE: There was no way for past writers to consider present information.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

That could perhaps be a good point.

Agree.

 

[Antvasima]

As an overall standard for any verse decades in the making, how should we handle possibly retroactive information? IE: There was no way for past writers to consider present information.

This is likely a very good point. I also think that retroactively scaling past feats to become much greater due to unrelated issues revealed decades later seems very unreliable.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

If there's no evidence the Pre-Reboot Universes are equivalent in size I'm fine with only applying this to the Post-Rebirth continuity.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

If there's no evidence the Pre-Reboot Universes are equivalent in size I'm fine with only applying this to the Post-Rebirth continuity.

It's also worth noting that cosmic expansion could play into this, given how multiple reboots effectively "rewind" time to an early point in the cast's history, it would make sense for the universe's size to be different at different points in time.

If I remember correctly, Krona's whole origin story was about accidentally erasing the first billion years of the universe's history from the timeline, so we know that messing around with time can effectively alter the physical properties of the universe.

 

[FroYoSans]

That doesn't really answer my question, though.

We can say that the current universe is at least a couple yottaparsecs in size, but why should this apply to New Earth or New 52?

Its called Retroactive Continuity, kinda like how despite Barry Allen was written to originally just have been given powers randomly via lightning and chemicals now its written that literally every speedster connected to the Speed Force was specifically chosen by the Deep Change

 

[KLOL506]

Isn't there an endless vastness of space statement for the Golden Age/Pre-Crisis Era?

Just make separate size statements for Post-Crisis, New 52 and Rebirth. Not sure why we keep discussing it over and over again.

 

[Adr10K]

Isn't there an endless vastness of space statement for the Golden Age/Pre-Crisis Era?

Just make separate size statements for Post-Crisis, New 52 and Rebirth. Not sure why we keep discussing it over and over again.

Wanky wank, as always