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DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

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Eden_Warlock99 said:
99% Dess, 1% Papyrus
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I doubt it's Papyrus, even 1%

It would make zero sense for Toby to retcon and rewrite one specific character we all know and love just so he could "fit" The Knight, it wouldn't be Papyrus anymore then even, it would be an entirely different character just wearing Papyrus' bones. Plus in my opinion, it would be lazy writing and extremely disappointing and bland.

Hence why I also believe it might be Dess or at least one of Holidays or even it's own thing. Better introduce a new character as the antagonist than re-use Papyrus out of literally everyone else, out of all possibilities.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
It'd be really funny though
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Yeah, I admit, it's funny and meme-able

But if you look at it from a critical storytelling perspective, the entire thing falls apart like a house of cards and would be more of a shock value fanservice reveal than something from heart, something emotional and I doubt Toby despite being a troll sometimes and messing around with his fans, would stoop that low.

It would also be funny if we're here thinking Toby is gonna pull something slick on us and it'll turn out he won't, it also would be a pretty Toby thing he would do in my eyes.
 
I think the Knight's identity has essentially been answered, the question now is HOW and WHAT they are

I think she's like Gerson. They introduced the concept of monster dust darkners for a reason, and I think that's what's going on with Dess
 
ShockingPsychic said:
I think the Knight's identity has essentially been answered, the question now is HOW and WHAT they are

I think she's like Gerson. They introduced the concept of monster dust darkners for a reason, and I think that's what's going on with Dess
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darkners can't open dark fountains or be in the light world, so we know this isn't the case

Gerson can't even exist in the second sanctuary because it has a different darkness, meanwhile the Knight seems to be able to appear in all sanctuary dark worlds, Kris' dark world and even the light world
 
Itzmrbonezone said:
Serious question, who do y'all think The Knight's real identity could be?
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It’s most probably Dess because that seems to be where the narrative is going, however if it’s anyone else I think Rudy is the only other potential candidate from that perspective (it’s definitely a Holiday). Carol being the Knight feels like a huge misdirect from how in your face it is, however what I find more interesting is how the Knight very clearly doesn’t have a typical Dark World form. They appear to be almost sickly in a sense, as if they’re either corrupted by some strange power or they’re relying on it to function as they are too unwell to achieve their goal normally. Rudy is obviously unwell, and Dess is kind of a blank canvas that you can apply anything to, so it would make more sense for the Knight to be those two rather than a seemingly healthy person like Carol.

Edit: Just remembered that the Black Shard has the same stats in both worlds, suggesting whatever strange power the Knight has might have some influence in the Light World somehow.
 
ShockingPsychic said:
I think the Knight's identity has essentially been answered, the question now is HOW and WHAT they are

I think she's like Gerson. They introduced the concept of monster dust darkners for a reason, and I think that's what's going on with Dess
Click to expand...
Gerson can't even exist in the second sanctuary, meanwhile the Knight exists in all 3 sanctuaries and even Kris' dark world

The Roaring Knight also opens dark fountains and exists in the light world, which is impossible for darkners.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
It’s most probably Dess because that seems to be where the narrative is going, however if it’s anyone else I think Rudy is the only other potential candidate from that perspective (it’s definitely a Holiday). Carol being the Knight feels like a huge misdirect from how in your face it is, however what I find more interesting is how the Knight very clearly doesn’t have a typical Dark World form. They appear to be almost sickly in a sense, as if they’re either corrupted by some strange power or they’re relying on it to function as they are too unwell to achieve their goal normally. Rudy is obviously unwell, and Dess is kind of a blank canvas that you can apply anything to, so it would make more sense for the Knight to be those two rather than a seemingly healthy person like Carol.

Edit: Just remembered that the Black Shard has the same stats in both worlds, suggesting whatever strange power the Knight has might have some influence in the Light World somehow.
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Being Carol is also physically impossible... she can't be at her house and in the church at the same time
 
On a related note to the Knight, I think Asgore’s secret scenes in the Holiday Manor have some really interesting implications:



First off, the dialogue seems to suggest that Asgore didn’t originally have that black shard and he instead found it in Carol and Rudy’s room. It being there isn’t that surprising as Carol is definitely at least in cahoots with the Knight, however what I find interesting is the way Asgore is sneaking around, as if whatever he’s doing is separate from Carol’s plans. He mentions an “old friend” that he appears to be working with (assuming he’s not crazy and isn’t just talking about a flower he has on his hand or something). Him wanting to show everyone “what really happened” is probably about Dess’s appearance, and him even knowing about the black shard being in the manor would require some research or knowledge from someone else (“cough” “cough” Rudy).

Now if I’m on the right track here, this would probably mean that Rudy isn’t the Knight, as why would Asgore be sneaking around Carol if the person he learned about the black shard from (and who may also be straight up working with him) was also working with Carol? It’d make sense to hide info from Asgore given the Roaring and Undyne sacrifice, but what benefit would Rudy Knight have to hide Asgore’s goals from Carol?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
On a related note to the Knight, I think Asgore’s secret scenes in the Holiday Manor have some really interesting implications:



First off, the dialogue seems to suggest that Asgore didn’t originally have that black shard and he instead found it in Carol and Rudy’s room. It being there isn’t that surprising as Carol is definitely at least in cahoots with the Knight, however what I find interesting is the way Asgore is sneaking around, as if whatever he’s doing is separate from Carol’s plans. He mentions an “old friend” that he appears to be working with (assuming he’s not crazy and isn’t just talking about a flower he has on his hand or something). Him wanting to show everyone “what really happened” is probably about Dess’s appearance, and him even knowing about the black shard being in the manor would require some research or knowledge from someone else (“cough” “cough” Rudy).

Now if I’m on the right track here, this would probably mean that Rudy isn’t the Knight, as why would Asgore be sneaking around Carol if the person he learned about the black shard from (and who may also be straight up working with him) was also working with Carol? It’d make sense to hide info from Asgore given the Roaring and Undyne sacrifice, but what benefit would Rudy Knight have to hide Asgore’s goals from Carol?
Click to expand...

I think the Asgore scene doesn't necessarily imply he found the black shard there
 
Itzmrbonezone said:
Serious question, who do y'all think The Knight's real identity could be?
Click to expand...
There's plenty of reasons for it to be Dess so that's my best guess.

Originally most theories pointed at Gaster but it makes sense that wouldn't be the case. Even back then, the Knight was way too upfront as a plot point to be Gaster. Out of the characters in the game, it's almost guaranteed to be someone related to the main cast members.

There's also still a genuine possibility that the Knight is really just the Knight. But that's boring af and I doubt Toby would go that route. Dess is the only answer that seems very logical to me.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
On a related note to the Knight, I think Asgore’s secret scenes in the Holiday Manor have some really interesting implications:



First off, the dialogue seems to suggest that Asgore didn’t originally have that black shard and he instead found it in Carol and Rudy’s room. It being there isn’t that surprising as Carol is definitely at least in cahoots with the Knight, however what I find interesting is the way Asgore is sneaking around, as if whatever he’s doing is separate from Carol’s plans. He mentions an “old friend” that he appears to be working with (assuming he’s not crazy and isn’t just talking about a flower he has on his hand or something). Him wanting to show everyone “what really happened” is probably about Dess’s appearance, and him even knowing about the black shard being in the manor would require some research or knowledge from someone else (“cough” “cough” Rudy).

Now if I’m on the right track here, this would probably mean that Rudy isn’t the Knight, as why would Asgore be sneaking around Carol if the person he learned about the black shard from (and who may also be straight up working with him) was also working with Carol? It’d make sense to hide info from Asgore given the Roaring and Undyne sacrifice, but what benefit would Rudy Knight have to hide Asgore’s goals from Carol?
Click to expand...

Idk about him finding it there tbh. Keep in mind that because he doesn't live with Toriel and the Flower King shop is just a store, he probably crashes at the Holiday manor often as a sort of secondary home. I'd find it more likely that the Knight placed the shard in a place where Asgore could find it intentionally.

The whole dialogue about an "inferno of jealousy", paired with this scene, all but confirms that Asgore will play a large role in Chapter 5 and will likely be the secret boss. The "jealousy" part especially intrigues me, as the only instance of him being extremely jealous of someone I could reasonably think of would be...like, SANS? Lmao.
 
You know how secret bosses have a special move near the end of the fight that's usually not very hard to dodge but is complete cinema?

Imagine Asgore's special move has a replication of the Open Season meme animation of him smiling then he drives a truck at you.
 
Itzmrbonezone said:
Serious question, who do y'all think The Knight's real identity could be?
Click to expand...
December. The Lost Girl motif is just there (obviously Lost Girl isn't exclusive to the Holiday family and even plays in a Ralsei scene, but... in a battle theme? C'mon.) There's no conceivable reason for Papyrus or any non-Holiday character to have a design with antlers. And, of course, the Knight's sprites and attacks constantly reference Kris's and Asriel's. Not to mention that their hurt SFX is extremely similar to Noelle's scream SFX. The mayor is a red herring, and a pretty good one; so good, in fact, that people forget the Knight's sword is just on the whole not at all like a katana (and is quite obviously a bat at first). Also, the party can just head directly to the church from Holiday Manor, so the mayor would have to, like, sprint directly across the forest to get everything set up in (or at least get into) the church Dark World. There's also the matter of how the Knight acts. Floating up those stairs at a speed exactly matching Susie's for no reason? There's an unused sprite of them holding up a peace sign... I think we can rule Carol out.
 
I am curious whether it would be useful to do Light World calcs. There's another Kris implied feat of having taken Berdly to the hospital and talked briefly to Noelle in the time that the water was running in the bathroom, plus we got stuff like Undyne doing lifts with a car and Burgerpants being super fast, as well as them getting the TV from the school in a short span of time. I guess at least it gives us an idea of how to scale Lightners, since we couldn't really assume that most people in the Light World would be significantly stronger than one another
 
I think there is something to doing keys for Light World and Dark World forms. Presumably Lightners in the Light World would all be comparable with one another, at least in base stats- idk if Kris's health bar in the Light World changes in each game so it's possible that leveling up in the Dark World effects the Dark World.
 
BatFellow said:
I am curious whether it would be useful to do Light World calcs. There's another Kris implied feat of having taken Berdly to the hospital and talked briefly to Noelle in the time that the water was running in the bathroom, plus we got stuff like Undyne doing lifts with a car and Burgerpants being super fast, as well as them getting the TV from the school in a short span of time. I guess at least it gives us an idea of how to scale Lightners, since we couldn't really assume that most people in the Light World would be significantly stronger than one another
Click to expand...
There a few light world feats that have been calced already, including that susie one.
 
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