Anos vs Baal

[Robo432343]

Anos Voldigoad

Anos Voldigoad (アノス・ヴォルディゴード, Anosu Vorudigōdo) is the reincarnation of the man who was feared as the Demon King of Tyranny 2,000 years ago and is the main protagonist of Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha. As the war between humans and demons raged on, Anos eventually grew tired of the constant...

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vs

Baal, The Gate of Hell

Baal ("The Master"), its the Messenger XXI, one of the entities that will bring the end of the world. Born from the events from the War of God, people wished to be a justification of all suffering, grief and misfortune of mankind, and from that idea and the amalgamation of gods corpses and...

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SBA
Speed =

Strongest 4-D Characters on the Wiki

Inspired by this thread, but now with 4-D characters. If you are wondering how this is different than the non-smurf list, check the second rule below. Rules: Anything above 4-D isn't allowed. As long as the character has a 4-D hax/ability/stat/weapon, etc listed on the profile, they can be...

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Anos: @Delusionaltx2
Baal: @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Lynieryz @Enter_Bluey @Arency, @Robo432343, @Ruler_Star_Kuma, @DaReaperMan @Grabbing_dragon @Shar122 @BreezeHM
Incon:

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Bro what have you done

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Baals only win con seems to be corruption t2 but anos can just negate this with magic eyes or use chaos hax

He also can just wipe him with mathmatics based ee it seems and baal has no answers for nep 2

Votting anos here this seems pretty one sided

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

How do I even start to try and go over this.. why's baal have so many powers and abilities

 

[Delusionaltx2]

baal has more hax layers than anos so he can still get incapped

Wheres the layered hax on his profile?

nep 2 is for his source

That still means he can't kill him
also his magic from his source if I recall correctly so he'd still be fine against his incap options hell characters in misfit from said source so he'd still be capable of attacking

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Wheres the layered hax on his profile?

It was accepted on this thread.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Anyway, Anos cant resist any of Baal's abilities atm (and Baal resists everything Anos can do). Baal cant kill Anos but he can BFR him to another time period or incap him via putting him in a time loop for as long as he wants. Any attack that Anos tries would just get undone by RW/Causality/Fate manip as well.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

It was accepted on this thread.

Oh...well that changes things

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Anyway, Anos cant resist any of Baal's abilities atm (and Baal resists everything Anos can do). Baal cant kill Anos but he can BFR him to another time period or incap him via putting him in a time loop for as long as he wants. Any attack that Anos tries would just get undone by RW/Causality/Fate manip as well.

Anos can still uses mathmatics hax through venuzdonoa to just undo that (baals magic doesn't seem to include this)

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Math Manip from Venuzdonoa isnt gonna help since its application doesnt pertain to nullifying attacks. Especially since Venuz's Math Manip is Concept/Law-based, which Baal resists.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Math Manip from Venuzdonoa isnt gonna help since its application doesnt pertain to nullifying attacks. Especially since Venuz's Math Manip is Concept/Law-based, which Baal resists.

Venuzonoas hax isn't just conceptual/ law based its more LOGIC based in the fact that it can makes zero in a completely illogical fashion which should also apply to things like its power null.

baal doesn't resist mathmatics based power null or EE

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Venuzonoas hax isn't just conceptual/ law based its more LOGIC based in the fact that it can makes zero in a completely illogical fashion which should also apply to things like its power null.

Manipulating logic is law manipulation on the site. 99% of Venuz's arsenal comes from manipulating or breaking logic (laws/concepts), which includes its math manip. If you resist such effect, then the rest wont matter.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Manipulating logic is law manipulation on the site. 99% of Venuz's arsenal comes from manipulating or breaking logic (laws/concepts), which includes its math manip. If you resist such effect, then the rest wont matter.

That's for normal logic manip not MISFITS logic manip

normal logic manipulation consists of manipulating the laws things abide by

misfit logic manip(at least based on the profile) consists of manipulating the logic behind mathmatical variables like making 1+1 equal 3 or 4 -1 equal zero which wouldn't follow the same restrictions that standard law hax would since it again relies on variables not traditional law manip.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

anos can undo the time spell by nuking the entire place

If only I believed this would've worked (apparently both being on 4-D range won't allow anos to do that even with chaotic eyes?? lmao??)

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

That's for normal logic manip not MISFITS logic manip

normal logic manipulation consists of manipulating the laws things abide by

misfit logic manip(at least based on the profile) consists of manipulating the logic behind mathmatical variables like making 1+1 equal 3 or 4 -1 equal zero which wouldn't follow the same restrictions that standard law hax would since it again relies on variables not traditional law manip.

What determines potency and whether or not a hax is deeper than what one can resist, are layers, which Anos doesnt have at the moment. So, resisting law and concept manip type 1 means you resist Venuzdonoa's effects.

In other words, regardless of how its treated in the verse, its still law manip for the purposes of the site. And since it doesnt have layers, its not going to be enough to affect Baal.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

What determines potency and whether or not a hax is deeper than what one can resist, are layers,

That's half true. There are other things like the nature of said hax and feats/limitations

which Anos doesnt have at the moment.
So, resisting law and concept manip type 1 means you resist Venuzdonoa's effects.

if venuzdonoa is capable of f***ing with logic to the point where it can use abilities that are more fundemental in nature with completely different forms of existence you would have to prove his resistences apply to such levels of existence

this is the whole reason why having conceptual EE is regarded on the wiki as different from normal EE since ur effecting a form of existence completely different from physical existence.

In other words, regardless of how its treated in the verse, its still law manip for the purposes of the site.

No, even the site acknowledges that abilities can vary in fiction and that abilities that work on completely different forms of existence annoy be treated as the same (abilities like HDE, EE, and BFR are all good examples of this)

And since it doesnt have layers, its not going to be enough to affect Baal.

again the levels of existence baals resistances incompass does not incompass his variables getting messed with, rather it simply layers itself on law hax that works on principals (in otherwords basic law hax)

 

[Robo432343]

That's for normal logic manip not MISFITS logic manip

normal logic manipulation consists of manipulating the laws things abide by

misfit logic manip(at least based on the profile) consists of manipulating the logic behind mathmatical variables like making 1+1 equal 3 or 4 -1 equal zero which wouldn't follow the same restrictions that standard law hax would since it again relies on variables not traditional law manip.

no
normal logic and misfits logic is the same because this thread got rejected

Logic Manipulation Ability Page Creation

I wanted to separate Logic Manipulation from Law Manipulation for quite a while, as throwing logic and laws of nature in one bucket always seemed strange to me. Sadly, there were never enough users to justify taking such a step. However, as of late, the Tiering System Revision has changed the...

vsbattles.com

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

if venuzdonoa is capable of f***ing with logic to the point where it can use abilities that are more fundemental in nature with completely different forms of existence you would have to prove his resistences apply to such levels of existence

this is the whole reason why having conceptual EE is regarded on the wiki as different from normal EE since ur effecting a form of existence completely different from physical existence.

Yeah, but there is no effective difference between resisting law hax that changes the laws of math vs resisting law hax that changes the laws of causality (example). If you resist the causal/core proccess (the manipulation itself), the effect that comes along isn't going to matter. It's also a bit different than BFR and the like, since BFR can be performed with different abilities (Teleportation and Time Manip) which would actually require different resistances since those are different powers, while Law manip doesnt have such luxury (the core cause is still the manipulation of laws regardless of what kind of effects come along with it)

 

[Robo432343]

Can't Anos just use MeoD to bypass Baal's time magic

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Can't Anos just use MeoD to bypass Baal's time magic

Layers

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

yeah hes not resisting the time magic hes destroying it

How

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

How

Wait a minute I JUST read what robo said, what's the difference

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Anos

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Anos

Aye buddy..

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah, but there is no effective difference between resisting law hax that changes the laws of math vs resisting law hax that changes the laws of causality (example)

yes there is and I already outlined this

one works up to the limits of casuality

the other works by using variables in an illogical fashion

law has that uses casuality has nothing to do with variables which have a completely different form of existence.

. If you resist the causal/core proccess (the manipulation itself), the effect that comes along isn't going to matter.

Again this only works if the extensions can be equated as such. Lemme give you an example, one can have an ability can easily be summoned up as EE like idk kumagawa here with all fiction. Now for characters that resist EE lets use idk naruto.

Yes Naruto resists EE but kumagawas EE isn't normal EE its EE that works on concepts( conceptual erasure being a byproduct of this). Naruto would still be effected because his EE resistance doesn't work on a conceptual level.

In the same sense baals law manip doesn't work on a mathematical level and therefore would not be equated to misfit Logic hax

It's also a bit different than BFR and the like, since BFR can be performed with different abilities (Teleportation and Time Manip) which would actually require different resistances since those are different powers, while Law manip doesnt have such luxury (the core cause is still the manipulation of laws regardless of what kind of effects come along with it)

Inncorect since law manip heavily depends on the laws of what ur manipulating and therefore can have varing limitations and applications

for example if one can only manipulate the laws of time and space their law hax would have no effect on characters with a lack of those applications entierly (ex: BDE t1/ dimensionless characters)

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Anyways, voting for Inconclusive at this rate

 

[Robo432343]

Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha CRT: Addressing Venuzdonoa’s “Logic Manipulation”

So I've recently been made aware that Venuzdonoa has a special sort of ability called "Logic Manipulation," which appears to be separate from typical Law Manipulation and perhaps superior to it. Given that this is a unique-sounding ability, I looked into it further, and found that well... Its...

vsbattles.com

 

[Delusionaltx2]

bro
we don't treat logic manipulation as an actual ability
it does not exist within our site rules

The wiki treats that stuff normally as law hax but I'm saying logic in misfit goes beyond just law hax.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha CRT: Addressing Venuzdonoa’s “Logic Manipulation”

So I've recently been made aware that Venuzdonoa has a special sort of ability called "Logic Manipulation," which appears to be separate from typical Law Manipulation and perhaps superior to it. Given that this is a unique-sounding ability, I looked into it further, and found that well... Its...

vsbattles.com

Again logic/law hax in misfit would be law hax PLUS a bunch of other stuff

I'm not saying it isn't law hax just that its applications go beyond standard law hax

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

The CRT that removed logic manip from Venuz concluded its just a higher degree of law manip and thats it

so about that destroying rather than resisting thing

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

its like how time travel is a good way to bypass BFR even though the character does not resist BFR

There's a difference like that when it comes to resisting/destroying???

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

There's a difference like that when it comes to resisting/destroying???

I mean I'm pretty sure it probably wouldn't work anyways with that buttload of resistances Baal has but I didn't know that was a thing

 

[Deonment]

Again logic/law hax in misfit would be law hax PLUS a bunch of other stuff

I'm not saying it isn't law hax just that its applications go beyond standard law hax

That doesn't change anything, as it fundamentally the same thing as Law hax, and no, it doesn't really, its just logic being shown to be superordinate to laws in verse and thus making it a higher degree, but that doesn't change anything because as I said, its still law manip (specifically manipulating order) the other effects or applications do not matter when Baal resists the source of said effects in the first place

 

[Delusionaltx2]

The CRT that removed logic manip from Venuz concluded its just a higher degree of law manip and thats it

Didn't see this but this is literally what I've been saying

 

[Delusionaltx2]

That doesn't change anything, as it fundamentally the same thing as Law hax,

Again it does if said law hax effects entirely different forms of existence

and no, it doesn't really, its just logic being shown to be superordinate to laws in verse and thus making it a higher degree, but that doesn't change anything because as I said, its still law manip (specifically manipulating order) the other effects or applications do not matter when Baal resists the source of said effects in the first place

Never said it wasn't law manip...I said its beyond standard law manip since it enables a bunch of other stuff (in otherwords u just said my arg)

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

'bunch of other stuff' like what exactly?

guess they mean the concept hax and what not idk

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

this matchup feels so fundamentally cursed because one shouldn't be winning right now

 

[Deonment]

Again it does if said law hax effects entirely different forms of existence

No, because the other aspects are manipulated through the law manip, Baal resists Anos or Venuzdonoa's attempts at manipulating the laws (logic if you want to nitpick) of his existence, and thus he can't even get to use the math manip part

Never said it wasn't law manip...I said its beyond standard law manip since it enables a bunch of other stuff (in otherwords u just said my arg)

It is by definition and indexing, law hax (with other stuff stapled on), it being superordinate to normal law hax does not change that it is still law hax

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

law has that uses casuality has nothing to do with variables which have a completely different form of existence.

It has differences in terms of effects, but it doesn't in terms of cause, which is my point.

Again this only works if the extensions can be equated as such. Lemme give you an example, one can have an ability can easily be summoned up as EE like idk kumagawa here with all fiction. Now for characters that resist EE lets use idk naruto.

Yes Naruto resists EE but kumagawas EE isn't normal EE its EE that works on concepts( conceptual erasure being a byproduct of this). Naruto would still be effected because his EE resistance doesn't work on a conceptual level.

In the same sense baals law manip doesn't work on a mathematical level and therefore would not be equated to misfit Logic hax

No idea whats the reason for Naruto resisting EE, the profile doesnt seem to explain well. If its just generic EE instead of a power's byproduct then yes, he wouldnt resist. But if he had resistance to causality manip, he would resist it, since Kumagawa's EE happens because of his causality manip. His causality manip being able to affect concepts doesnt suddenly makes his causality hax harder to resist if the opponent already resists causality manipulation.

Likewise, if a character could perform causality manip because of their EE, resisting EE would make you avoid the causality hax.

Inncorect since law manip heavily depends on the laws of what ur manipulating and therefore can have varing limitations and applications

They have varying applications but the source is still the same, as the idea is still [manipulating the law of something] for whatever application to happen. Resisting the former ("manipulating the law") would turn the latter ("of something") inapplicable as there would be no cause for the effect to happen to begin with.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Hi so I heard we're trying to treat Anos's logic stuff as separate from Law Manipulation. Uh, no, we don't do that here. I specifically made a thread that got accepted to kill that notion. Manipulating logical truths and stuff falls under Law Manipulation on the site and people trying to make it separate so it can be this unresistable ability in VS matches isn't gonna fly