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mfw it's still on other profiles aside from the sword's
(there was nobody making it separate beforehand in an untruthful way)
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Anos vs Baal
- Thread starter Robo432343
- Start date
(there was nobody making it separate beforehand in an untruthful way)
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I do plan to get to those once I decide to get off my ass, but I do remember what you're talking about (I assume you mean other verses)mfw it's still on other profiles aside from the sword's
(there was nobody making it separate beforehand in an untruthful way)
Delusionaltx2
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No it wouldn't because the means said law manip effects things are on a completely different framework and effect other things that AREN'T encompassed from said resistance.
Again baals resistence to law hax doesn't encompass the same level of existence venuzdonoa does making said resistance irrelevant
It does because it literally means said other abilities would also have to be answered in some capacity
Delusionaltx2
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Fate,concept,mathmatics,etc
Delusionaltx2
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That's not the argument they're just strawmaning
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The most it was there for (and for other profiles/verses I assume) was the fact it was just there to be there or recognized I GUESS (the lack of acknowledgement about it aside from how it's functions -convos not even talking about the logic manip in the profile but its in verse function- leads to that idea anyways), + it lead over to law manip anyways
If there was an example for it I'd love to see it because I VERY much wonder, I haven't seen anything
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did you put me down for inconclusive yetwhat do you mean same level of existence Venuzdonoa is a 3-D object
Delusionaltx2
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I'll say this again the argument is that logic in misfit goes beyond standard law hax by encompassing other abilities beyond just manipulating principals
Said hax allows them to manipulate things like concepts, fate, mathmatics, and so on
while resisting law hax would grant resistance to for fate manip that works through said hax things like mathmatics manip work on something beyond the level of existence that resisting conceptual principals are
as a result you would need to resist those in some capacity since they don't just exist as mere extensions but extensions with an entirely different form of existence to them.
it would be like saying x can resist EE therefore resists conceptual EE it doesn't work that way even on the wiki
THIS is my argument
Said hax allows them to manipulate things like concepts, fate, mathmatics, and so on
while resisting law hax would grant resistance to for fate manip that works through said hax things like mathmatics manip work on something beyond the level of existence that resisting conceptual principals are
as a result you would need to resist those in some capacity since they don't just exist as mere extensions but extensions with an entirely different form of existence to them.
it would be like saying x can resist EE therefore resists conceptual EE it doesn't work that way even on the wiki
THIS is my argument
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you gotta stop, dude. seriously.
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I mean I think that's kinda covered as is with the abilities on Venuzdonoa's profile but on the site, if it's not in the profile it's not usable. So if you try to say that Venuzdonoa's Law Manipulation comes from logic stuff and that logic is different and thus resisting Law Manip doesn't matter, you'd be wrong (by our standards anyway)
Delusionaltx2
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? mathmatics manip is on the profile tho
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Maybe I'll like go digging again because I remember seeing something like that was what caused me to want to make my thread but it was basically like "this isn't Law Manip, it's Logic Manip, so the resistance to Law Manip doesn't mean anything"
So by that line of reasoning we basically had an ability that wasn't actually documented as an ability and nobody resisted because maintaining the agenda was the top priority
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That's kinda what I mean, I'm not getting into the full arguments or making a vote, I was just asked to come here. Venuzdonoa has Math Manip so that's fair game
Delusionaltx2
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Ok then
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what the hell does that even MEAN...
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I'm new to this wiki but I think you can get it by probability manipulation anos
Delusionaltx2
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Thats irrelevant since the effect in question is whats gonna well...effecting him???
No, kumagawas EE evolved beyond casuality manip to a completely different ability
100 gauntlets is an ability that manipulates casuality
All fiction (the evolved form) just turns it and other stuff to nothing
they arent the same
It would because they both effect things on the same lvl (physical with some elements of space and time)
Again if said things are completely different in existence the cause becomes irrelevant
As I said before this basic only works because the cause and effect have the same level of existence
manipulating the laws of time and space is limited to the restrictions of time and space
manipulating the laws of math goes beyond time and space focusing on variables that encompass stuff like that
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I think the worst part is that Anos has survived this but I don't think it's listed in the profile anywhere
But if it works like how I think then Anos can jjst use Kurst to put himself back though not like it'd stop him less Baal decides to just go all the way rather than stop when he's a kid (he fights even as a child anyways both in his past and the present)
Delusionaltx2
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The main arg is using mathmatics based power null to turn the ability itself into zero
Alternative there's also acasuality t4
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Okay stop please, you aren't arguing correctly..
Delusionaltx2
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how exactly?
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You're just naming the absolute extremes when I'm pretty sure Anos just -survives it- if not just fight as he is when probably turned into a kid (that is if Baal doesn't go all the way anyways + Baal in all his abilities cannot kill anos)
Delusionaltx2
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baal has power null on his profile i'm pretty sure so i don't think anos would be able to go back the same way.
also baals stuff for whatever reason has like 16 layers for everything so I kinda have to use the extremes here
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It's relevant since there would be no effect happening to begin with if the cause is resisted.
His EE is directly listed within the applications of his causality manipulation in the profile.
Not sure what you are trying to say with "levels of existence" here but we dont assume math manip to be a higher/better form of space-time manip nor something better than it by default. Likewise, we dont assume manipulation of laws of math as being better than the manipulation of laws of reality or causality or anything like that by default.
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why are your matchups so cursed
can't kill him, and anos can't do anything in return cause of layers, chaotic eyes included
Delusionaltx2
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yes it would since resistances guard against effects not causes
The literal first sentence for all fiction is and I quote " His minus ability allows him to deny any aspect of reality"
I'm talking about different forms of existence for example physical things, spiritual things, imaginary things and so on
However we do for things like EE and so on
Yes we do, vsb literally acknowledges that because of the nature of mathmatics manip things like probability manip can be seen as a possible application since probability can be described in the form of a variable
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Baal has layers (16), Anos doesn't, bro can do nothing apparently
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I would've assumed Venuzdonoa could adapt to Baal or just his chaotic eyes destroying everything I guess—?Baal has layers, Anos doesn't, bro can do nothing apparently
But I don't know if the first one would work even and the second.. idk why layers be protecting against that much of a gap but that's how it goes I guess-.
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least i'm told that's how layers work now, is there even anything that baal DOESN'T resist that anos has?
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has to summon it first and (I was told off-site) that apparently baal can resist somehow cause resistance layers > 2-A potency because both still operate on a 4-D scale but idk if it works like that entirely here, maybe i'm just explaining it wrong
edit: if chaotic eyes or venuz doesn't work somehow then I'm staying voting for incon, oblivion has the answers
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Wait a minute, does Baal even has resistance to higher degrees of law manip on their profile??
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why is this matchup so cursed.
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- Thread starter
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dw this match is not getting added
its just to see if anima characters can change the 4-D list
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I don't think I care enough about it being added or not it's just me being dumbfounded at layers taking so much precedence here
It's gonna be incon for a while
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oh right. that.
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It's the same as attack potency bypassing layers normally. Just because they're 2A doesn't mean they can nuke someone's already 4D resistance to hax. Even moreso now because smurf hax got gutted, that stuff now also becomes layers.
Of course if your verse treats higher levels into 2A as more hax potency/layers, then there's an arguement. But yeah I guess baal resists everything anos does here. That said, surprised anos has none, or at least not many given how many times I've seen infinite layers thrown around lol
Of course if your verse treats higher levels into 2A as more hax potency/layers, then there's an arguement. But yeah I guess baal resists everything anos does here. That said, surprised anos has none, or at least not many given how many times I've seen infinite layers thrown around lol
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From my experience in the site, they can guard against both but the latter ends up not mattering if you resist the former.
It doesnt matter. His P&A directly says that All Fiction is causality manip and that EE is a result of it. If you think thats wrong make a CRT to change his P&A.
A power having applications doesnt mean it's "more fundamental" than those applications, if thats what you are trying to say. I haven't seen any thread where that has been the case. Plus, we have no written standard nor any apparent precedent regarding "more fundamental law hax means you cant conventionally resist it even if you resist general law hax". Like I said, what matters right now in this case, and what we do have written down in the standards, are layers and smurf hax, which Anos has none of.
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Baal could also BFR him to another time period. Surprisingly, Anos doesn't have proper time travel in the profile.
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For the record, I'm voting for Baal as well.
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