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Seems it's still going to be a struggle as DS has higher speed upscaling
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Hashiras vs Mori Dan (2-9-0)
- Thread starter Johner2133451
- Start date
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Plus speed amps like bo-bup which make him move so fast it seems as if he's teleporting and the aforementioned analytical prediction skills
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I think thats like 3 upscaling while DS has 5
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I’m pretty sure there’s an even higher upscaling that I’m missing. There’s probably another blitz amp I’m missing
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- #45
On top the lowest chain being mach 2200
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Yeah except the upscales are by enormous gaps.
Even just the MJ/Mk mode upscales from a 48x multiplier (I have not yet proposed this as a multiplier to apply to values directly so for now it's officially just an unquantified blitz tier amp).
So it's essentially 3 massive blitz tiers worth of upscaling.
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Just to clarify, are the marks blitz amps?
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It seems DS has 2 blitz speed upscale on top of mach 2200. I think the quantifiable mach would still put DS on higher edge for speed
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None of the emotion clones got blitzed by Tanjiro until the mark appeared. The emotion clones were also just as fast as base tanjiro
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You should probably ask @Epyriel for the speed upscaling. They were the ones that informed us how Final Key Tanjiro had like 3-4 blitz amps if I remember correctly?
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Pretty sure transparent world is another blitz amp
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2 standard blitz jumps are frankly nothing to a more than a 48x multiplier and a perception blitz amp.
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- #57
Is the 48x multiplier even accepted? also wdym by perception blitz
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The original one? Yes. The MK/MJ one? No, like I said I haven't proposed it yet.
If you were to completely disregard the specific value and just go by "blitz tiers" then it would go:
MK/MJ mode > 48x jeabongchim > 24x jeabongchim > 8x jeabongchim > Jeabongchim x2 > base stats
With each jump being a blitz tier increase. That's why the method of upscaling matters because suddenly a single massive jump becomes equal to 5 regular jumps.
A regular blitz is just hitting faster than the opponent can physically react. A perception blitz is hitting so fast the opponent can't even percieve you.
Well on the wiki a "speed blitz" is intended to be only a perception blitz but people throw it around for any significant outspeeding.
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So 2x automatically applies to any blitz amps?
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Wdym? For profile purposes? No. You'd need a stated 2x multiplier, simply blitzing someone isn't enough
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But based of profiles, Mori Jin only has mach 543, 8x via AD
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Yes. And Hashira are only Mach 2000ish.
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So if Mori performs AD, he will get around 4320 mach which is only 2x above Hashira's 2200 mach value
But that is if Mori gets the chance since according to @CastoriceTheFifth, Hashira's speed is llke 5 blitz amps so they can attempt finishing of Mori before the AD kicks in
Arkenis
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Again, 5 blitz amps don't matter much here. They simply become faster to an unknown extent. Mori and them also still have sensory abilities to dodge those faster as well. This will probably become a moot point if David gets that multiplier accepted, but this seems less important than how do they beat him and how does he beat them.
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He doesn't cap an only 2x above Hashira's, He can go further then this for sure, his ad still make him grow at the same rate as before if not faster.
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And like I said Mori is like 8 blitz amps over his value.
But ultimately these are currently just vaguely faster than the value they scale to since we can't directly compare 2 blitz amps
And if the Hashira are say, 10x faster than Mori it's even worse because it would force Mori to catch up even more than if they were just 4x faster.
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Mori dan fra
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while the hashira have the speed advantage initially i think his AD can take care of that before it becomes a real issue
him throwing Yeoui at any of them and instantly killing or crushing them with its Class Z weight (as heavy as Mars) is also a very real wincon
i think Mori Dan takes it more often than not
him throwing Yeoui at any of them and instantly killing or crushing them with its Class Z weight (as heavy as Mars) is also a very real wincon
i think Mori Dan takes it more often than not
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I'm not sure if they're really interested in the thread. They already opened it and liked some comments but haven't responded
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Well, If it still one vote short for Mori to win then take my vote.
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So are you voting for Mori then?
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Sure, since it seems no other arguments for Hashira I'll vote Mori
Catbowtie
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Y'all don't let me get any breaks
The Hashira's abilities to fight evenly against opponents who have Precognition should play a big factor here.
On top of the speed difference between the Hashira and Mori Dan is 4.1x. in favor of the Hashira being faster, Mori Dan's speed scaling doesn't shape up to Demon Slayer's. Demon Slayer speed is a constant trend of people blitzing people and getting blitzed by other people. There's multiple blitz gaps in a single arc, and it gets even crazier in the later arcs. The speed scaling goes like this:
There's also some other tidbits I'm leaving out, like how Obanai right after nearly collapsing from lack of oxygen blitzed Giyu and how Gyomei and Sanemi were growing to become faster mid-battle when fighting Kokushibo.
(Gyomei)
I'd also like to note that Hashira lower in the speed scaling can still instinctively react to those higher in the scaling chain, as seen with Mitsuri autonomously dodging attacks which were perception blitzing her and how Gyomei somewhat reacted to and defended Sanemi against Schichishito Blade Form Kokushibo's Speed Blitzing attack.
As for Mori Dan vs the Hashira...yea, Mori Dan kinda gets cooked here. Mori Dan defeating (seemingly) 9 feat-less trained war veterans means nothing because we don't know what their training consisted of and how skilled they were.
Gyomei and Sanemi working with each other can keep Kokushibo on the defensive in a 2v1. Kokushibo actively uses his six eyes in a fight, and has more working eyes on his sword, not to mention his AnaPre + Precog. With 7 additional people having great Teamwork, I think the Hashira could very well defeat Mori Dan. Mori Dan can't stop Giyu from jumping in between whatever Pillar he's fighting and using Dead Calm to nullify his attacks.
There's stuff other Pillars can do too that I'm not mentioning. Sanemi can release an omni-directional wave of slashes, Tengen can spam bombs because that's all that bum is good for in these fights, Shinobu can perhaps maybe create a poison that paralyzes Mori Dan for a day, Giyu can see what Breathing Technique Tanjro is going to do from slight movements, then make an entirely new technique for the best synchronization between them and pretty much instantly then use that newly created technique effectively. Stuff like that.
I'm going to vote for the Hashira For Reasons Above.
Edit: Though this all kinda don't matter because the Hashira don't fight humans In-Character. OP is going to have to either make them willing to fight a human or make them willing to kill
The Hashira's abilities to fight evenly against opponents who have Precognition should play a big factor here.
Giyu, with no Precognition of his own, evenly fought Akaza for an extended period of time, a guy who can instinctively aim for his opponent's weak points and vitals with such accuracy his attacks were described to be quite literally magnets, and who Tanjiro deemed his attacks to be unavoidable. Tanjiro can literally predict someone by smell, by the way. Akaza is the same guy who defeated 67 kendo masters when he was 17 and was human, using only bare fists and his own skill. Akaza's Analytical Prediction is so good the profile literally indexes it as Limited Precognition, an ability that allows the user to see the future.
Although, the best Analytical Prediction would come from Kokushibo.
Kokushibo, at a mere glance, can see directly into someone's body to observe their blood vessels, muscles, and lungs, as well as determining someone's pulse and entire genome. With this ability, Kokushibo can foresee what movements a person is going to make by watching their bone movement, muscle contraction, and blood flow. It's basically X-Ray vision, like what Mori Dan has. This ability is also indexed on the Profile as Limited Precognition
In a direct 1v1 against Kokushibo, someone's swordsmanship has to be flawless, as in, "if you make one mistake you'll instantly die" type of flawless.
Yet, both Sanemi and Gyomei fought Kokushibo in a 1v1 and held their ground. Muichiro, who became a Hashira in two months, which is the pinnacle of Demon Hunters, even higher in skill than people who fought unhindered by constantly changing gravity while dodging invisible air attacks, who consistently dodged six Homing Attack Temari Balls, who defeated two high-speed swimming demons underwater, got effortlessly Stomped by Kokushibo and was nailed to a pillar with his own sword like he's a picture frame. Yes, the same Muichiro who cut 10,000 fish (this was an accepted calculation, by the way, and got replaced by Mitsuri's dodging lightning feat, but it's still valid for profiles) and utterly embarrassed Molted Gyokko.
Although, the best Analytical Prediction would come from Kokushibo.
Kokushibo, at a mere glance, can see directly into someone's body to observe their blood vessels, muscles, and lungs, as well as determining someone's pulse and entire genome. With this ability, Kokushibo can foresee what movements a person is going to make by watching their bone movement, muscle contraction, and blood flow. It's basically X-Ray vision, like what Mori Dan has. This ability is also indexed on the Profile as Limited Precognition
In a direct 1v1 against Kokushibo, someone's swordsmanship has to be flawless, as in, "if you make one mistake you'll instantly die" type of flawless.
Yet, both Sanemi and Gyomei fought Kokushibo in a 1v1 and held their ground. Muichiro, who became a Hashira in two months, which is the pinnacle of Demon Hunters, even higher in skill than people who fought unhindered by constantly changing gravity while dodging invisible air attacks, who consistently dodged six Homing Attack Temari Balls, who defeated two high-speed swimming demons underwater, got effortlessly Stomped by Kokushibo and was nailed to a pillar with his own sword like he's a picture frame. Yes, the same Muichiro who cut 10,000 fish (this was an accepted calculation, by the way, and got replaced by Mitsuri's dodging lightning feat, but it's still valid for profiles) and utterly embarrassed Molted Gyokko.
On top of the speed difference between the Hashira and Mori Dan is 4.1x. in favor of the Hashira being faster, Mori Dan's speed scaling doesn't shape up to Demon Slayer's. Demon Slayer speed is a constant trend of people blitzing people and getting blitzed by other people. There's multiple blitz gaps in a single arc, and it gets even crazier in the later arcs. The speed scaling goes like this:
Base Swordsmith Tanjiro <= Hantengu & Emotion Clones <<< Demon Slayer Mark Tanjiro (Blitzed Emotion Clones) << Dancing Flash Tanjiro (Stole Zenitsu's bag) << Kaigaku <= Base Muichiro & Base Mitsuri < Gyokko (Objectively stronger than Kaigaku) << Molted Gyokko (Even faster than before) <<< Marked Muichiro (Muichiro blitzed Molted Gyokko) = Marked Mitsuri = Zohakuten (Zohakuten is 4x stronger than the Emotion Clones as a result of combining into one) <<< Literally everyone after the Hashira Training Arc.
We're not done yet.
Post-Hashira Training Tanjiro (At the level of Hashira. Is the bare minimum for all other notable characters) < Post-Hashira Training Mitsuri & Muichiro (The two slowest runners) < Giyu <<< Marked Giyu < Casual Akaza (Blitzed Tanjiro. Wasn't taking his fight against Marked Giyu seriously) << Dead Calm Giyu (Giyu's Dead Calm increases his reaction speed) <= Serious Akaza (Outpaced Marked Giyu with his Final Technique) <<<< Transparent World Tanjiro (Utterly blitzed Serious Akaza without him being able to do anything about it) <= Post-Decapitation Akaza (was going to get even stronger if he didn't kill himself. Kokushibo said he could've reached greater heights. Doma said that Akaza's growth was something to take note of) <<<< Doma (Akaza could never beat Doma) <<<< Speed Demon Shinobu (Fastest Hashira Doma ever met. Consistently outpaced Doma. Would've blitzed and decapitated Doma if she wasn't weak) << Casual Kokushibo (Objectively stronger than Doma) = Transparent World Muichiro (dodged Kokushibo's attacks, which previously blitzed him) < Marked Sanemi & Gyomei <<< Shichishito Blade Form Kokushibo (blitzed the former two) = Marked Gyomei <<< Monster Form Kokushibo (blitzed Marked Gyomei) <<< 3rd Stage Drugged Muzan's tentacle whips (Muzan is the strongest demon, even when drugged. His whips were consistently outpacing and blitzing the Hashira, which consisted of Gyomei, Mitsuri, Giyu, Obanai, and Sanemi)
We're not done yet.
Post-Hashira Training Tanjiro (At the level of Hashira. Is the bare minimum for all other notable characters) < Post-Hashira Training Mitsuri & Muichiro (The two slowest runners) < Giyu <<< Marked Giyu < Casual Akaza (Blitzed Tanjiro. Wasn't taking his fight against Marked Giyu seriously) << Dead Calm Giyu (Giyu's Dead Calm increases his reaction speed) <= Serious Akaza (Outpaced Marked Giyu with his Final Technique) <<<< Transparent World Tanjiro (Utterly blitzed Serious Akaza without him being able to do anything about it) <= Post-Decapitation Akaza (was going to get even stronger if he didn't kill himself. Kokushibo said he could've reached greater heights. Doma said that Akaza's growth was something to take note of) <<<< Doma (Akaza could never beat Doma) <<<< Speed Demon Shinobu (Fastest Hashira Doma ever met. Consistently outpaced Doma. Would've blitzed and decapitated Doma if she wasn't weak) << Casual Kokushibo (Objectively stronger than Doma) = Transparent World Muichiro (dodged Kokushibo's attacks, which previously blitzed him) < Marked Sanemi & Gyomei <<< Shichishito Blade Form Kokushibo (blitzed the former two) = Marked Gyomei <<< Monster Form Kokushibo (blitzed Marked Gyomei) <<< 3rd Stage Drugged Muzan's tentacle whips (Muzan is the strongest demon, even when drugged. His whips were consistently outpacing and blitzing the Hashira, which consisted of Gyomei, Mitsuri, Giyu, Obanai, and Sanemi)
(Gyomei)
(Sanemi)
I'd also like to note that Hashira lower in the speed scaling can still instinctively react to those higher in the scaling chain, as seen with Mitsuri autonomously dodging attacks which were perception blitzing her and how Gyomei somewhat reacted to and defended Sanemi against Schichishito Blade Form Kokushibo's Speed Blitzing attack.
As for Mori Dan vs the Hashira...yea, Mori Dan kinda gets cooked here. Mori Dan defeating (seemingly) 9 feat-less trained war veterans means nothing because we don't know what their training consisted of and how skilled they were.
Gyomei and Sanemi working with each other can keep Kokushibo on the defensive in a 2v1. Kokushibo actively uses his six eyes in a fight, and has more working eyes on his sword, not to mention his AnaPre + Precog. With 7 additional people having great Teamwork, I think the Hashira could very well defeat Mori Dan. Mori Dan can't stop Giyu from jumping in between whatever Pillar he's fighting and using Dead Calm to nullify his attacks.
There's no counterplay to this besides blitzing Giyu. An omni-directional attack couldn't get past it. Mori Dan is genuinely going to have to deal with Giyu nullifying his attacks for the entire fight.
There's stuff other Pillars can do too that I'm not mentioning. Sanemi can release an omni-directional wave of slashes, Tengen can spam bombs because that's all that bum is good for in these fights, Shinobu can perhaps maybe create a poison that paralyzes Mori Dan for a day, Giyu can see what Breathing Technique Tanjro is going to do from slight movements, then make an entirely new technique for the best synchronization between them and pretty much instantly then use that newly created technique effectively. Stuff like that.
I'm going to vote for the Hashira For Reasons Above.
Edit: Though this all kinda don't matter because the Hashira don't fight humans In-Character. OP is going to have to either make them willing to fight a human or make them willing to kill
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Well it's not listed as a weakness in the profile. You want me to make them bloodlusted?
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Its the same thing as Deku trying to fight a 4 year old. Even under SBA, Deku is never fighting a 4 year old
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Well Kratos has a weakness listed that he never fights children. I think weakness that they dont fight humans should be added anyway
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you reminded me to add a weakness to akaza
Akaza (Kimetsu no Yaiba)
Akaza (猗窩座あかざ, Akaza?) is a major antagonist of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu No Yaiba. He is a demon affiliated with the Twelve Kizuki, holding the third highest position, Upper Rank 3 (上じょう弦げんの参さん, Jōgen no San?). As a Kizuki, Akaza is one of the closest servants of the King of Demons, Muzan...
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