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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

MinatoSparkle said:
Activity spurring time

Notes
  • The list is primarily based on overall combat ability, so even if someone can’t defeat a character below them due to matchup (e.g. it’s debatable whether Ashura Avatar Naruto/Indra Susanoo Sasuke have a wincon against Base Kaguya), if they’re clearly superior, then they’ll still rank above
    • Specific matchups are taken into account only when characters are close enough in ability that it’s hard to say who’s stronger overall
  • Edo characters’ immortality isn’t taken into account, but their regenerating chakra is, as it’s hard to tell how some of their fighting styles would change otherwise
  • When a character is shown in their general state (e.g. BoS Guy), it’s taking into account all their techniques in that version (so even though the image is Base Guy, his ability to use the Gates is considered in his placement), as well as their stamina with these techniques
    • If a character is named in a specific form (e.g. Sage Mode Minato), their power in that form is what’s considered, and not how long they can maintain it; the only exceptions to this is are the two versions of 7th Gate Guy, and those keys are just meant to represent Countdown/Late WA Guy holistically
  • Kaguya fight Team 7 doesn’t factor in the Ashura Avatar since Naruto didn’t use it in the fight and he might not even have been able to, its source being natural energy that might not exist in the same quantity/at all in Kaguya’s dimensions
  • Edo Nagato could realistically be anywhere from top of Savior tier to just below OM Obito
  • Teen Minato could be a few spots higher or a lot lower; his AP is excellent, but his speed is pretty hard to gauge
  • 9 Tails Attack Hiruzen could similarly be higher or lower, as the only concrete information about his scaling is that he’s below Jonin Minato and above P1 Orochimaru. He did hold off Kurama alongside the rest of Konoha, but the battle was off-panel
  • A lot of characters in High Kage level could hypothetically be a tier higher due to fighting KCM Naruto/KCM clones, but his power was decreased from splitting chakra 14 ways (whether this is a 14x stat nerf isn’t really the point, as having such a small portion of his chakra would make him weaker regardless). His only real quantifiable scaling in that nerfed state is being above PA SM Naruto based on his statement to Nagato, so characters that fought Nerfed KCM Naruto/KCM clones downscale from PA SM Naruto rather than KCM Naruto
  • A lot of characters in High Kage level are fairly close in strength, and is the tier with the most wiggle room. Only the top 7 are pretty concrete
  • The version of Sasuke called “FKS Sasuke” is him with the MS and access to Amaterasu/Kagatsuchi, but not Susanoo. Without Amaterasu, he'd be somewhere between Base WA Bee and Gyuki
  • Kakuzu could be much higher, as Yuugito might be comparable to Roshi/Han, and there are definitely ways to reinterpret his antifeats/statements
  • Sick Kimimaro, and consequently SRA Gaara/Lee, are some of the hardest characters to concretely rank, as Kimimaro’s metas are all over the place (you could place Base Kimimaro anywhere from Special Jonin to the top of Elite Jonin, and with some generosity, you could even argue CM2 Kimimaro>Post-Training Kakashi), but for the sake of simplicity, I’m using the meta that Base Kimimaro is portrayed to be more of a threat than any of the Sound 4
  • Top-Class Genin is another tier with very comparable and interchangeable characters all throughout
main-qimg-a783611cda51387580f875cd1ec91866
Click to expand...
Why is DMS Kakashi above Sasuke at the end of the war when the latter was considered unintelligible? What differentiates Kakashi from normal Late War Shinobi Kakashi?
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Activity spurring time

Notes
  • The list is primarily based on overall combat ability, so even if someone can’t defeat a character below them due to matchup (e.g. it’s debatable whether Ashura Avatar Naruto/Indra Susanoo Sasuke have a wincon against Base Kaguya), if they’re clearly superior, then they’ll still rank above
    • Specific matchups are taken into account only when characters are close enough in ability that it’s hard to say who’s stronger overall
  • Edo characters’ immortality isn’t taken into account, but their regenerating chakra is, as it’s hard to tell how some of their fighting styles would change otherwise
  • When a character is shown in their general state (e.g. BoS Guy), it’s taking into account all their techniques in that version (so even though the image is Base Guy, his ability to use the Gates is considered in his placement), as well as their stamina with these techniques
    • If a character is named in a specific form (e.g. Sage Mode Minato), their power in that form is what’s considered, and not how long they can maintain it; the only exceptions to this is are the two versions of 7th Gate Guy, and those keys are just meant to represent Countdown/Late WA Guy holistically
  • Kaguya fight Team 7 doesn’t factor in the Ashura Avatar since Naruto didn’t use it in the fight and he might not even have been able to, its source being natural energy that might not exist in the same quantity/at all in Kaguya’s dimensions
  • Edo Nagato could realistically be anywhere from top of Savior tier to just below OM Obito
  • Teen Minato could be a few spots higher or a lot lower; his AP is excellent, but his speed is pretty hard to gauge
  • 9 Tails Attack Hiruzen could similarly be higher or lower, as the only concrete information about his scaling is that he’s below Jonin Minato and above P1 Orochimaru. He did hold off Kurama alongside the rest of Konoha, but the battle was off-panel
  • A lot of characters in High Kage level could hypothetically be a tier higher due to fighting KCM Naruto/KCM clones, but his power was decreased from splitting chakra 14 ways (whether this is a 14x stat nerf isn’t really the point, as having such a small portion of his chakra would make him weaker regardless). His only real quantifiable scaling in that nerfed state is being above PA SM Naruto based on his statement to Nagato, so characters that fought Nerfed KCM Naruto/KCM clones downscale from PA SM Naruto rather than KCM Naruto
  • A lot of characters in High Kage level are fairly close in strength, and is the tier with the most wiggle room. Only the top 7 are pretty concrete
  • The version of Sasuke called “FKS Sasuke” is him with the MS and access to Amaterasu/Kagatsuchi, but not Susanoo. Without Amaterasu, he'd be somewhere between Base WA Bee and Gyuki
  • Kakuzu could be much higher, as Yuugito might be comparable to Roshi/Han, and there are definitely ways to reinterpret his antifeats/statements
  • Sick Kimimaro, and consequently SRA Gaara/Lee, are some of the hardest characters to concretely rank, as Kimimaro’s metas are all over the place (you could place Base Kimimaro anywhere from Special Jonin to the top of Elite Jonin, and with some generosity, you could even argue CM2 Kimimaro>Post-Training Kakashi), but for the sake of simplicity, I’m using the meta that Base Kimimaro is portrayed to be more of a threat than any of the Sound 4
  • Top-Class Genin is another tier with very comparable and interchangeable characters all throughout
main-qimg-a783611cda51387580f875cd1ec91866
Click to expand...
Naruto.
MinatoSparkle said:
What do you mean unintelligible?

Um...the fact that he has two MS and Six Paths chakra?
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about Kakashi DMS, but about A Late Kakashi.

And about Kakashi DMS, I mean, he has no reason to be on top. Sasuke and Naruto, in the end, already Sasuke. Even after seeing DMS, Kakashi still believed that the only threat was Naruto.
 
Banjo77 said:
Naruto.

I'm not talking about Kakashi DMS, but about A Late Kakashi.

And about Kakashi DMS, I mean, he has no reason to be on top. Sasuke and Naruto, in the end, already Sasuke. Even after seeing DMS, Kakashi still believed that the only threat was Naruto.
Click to expand...
I'm really not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. Is this what you're saying?

1. What separates normal War Arc Kakashi from late War Arc Kakashi?
2. Sasuke>DMS Kakashi since he was only worried about Naruto and not Kakashi
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I'm really not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. Is this what you're saying?

1. What separates normal War Arc Kakashi from late War Arc Kakashi?
2. Sasuke>DMS Kakashi since he was only worried about Naruto and not Kakashi
Click to expand...
In 1, yes, that's what I meant. In 2, no. I think Kakashi Susano is above Indra Susano Sasuke. Considering that Sasuke only sees Naruto as the only threat despite seeing DMS Kakashi
 
Damage3245 said:
Can't use FTL speeds for kinetic energy calculations.

And a speed boost like that would likely be calc stacking without a specified multiplier.
Click to expand...
In this case, I used the lightning speed accepted here (440,000m/s), I remember that lightning speed is always used for calculations with Ay.

As for the high result, I used how much Oonoki's Keijuugan no Jutsu reduced Genbu's mass, and applied the same format to Ay, since it was the exact same Jutsu used in both.

The reduction calculated for Genbu was something around 99.9999999999714%. I asked ChatGPT if it was possible to move quickly with such reduced mass, and he said yes, but that's an AI speaking, and I'm a bit of a layman to be able to confirm with precision.
 
vsbattles.com

Naruto Baryon Mode Speed Upgrade

Naruto’s speed should be massively increased in Baryon Mode thanks to reacting to Isshiki’s Sukunahikona (this should also upgrade Isshiki’s speed as well). As defined on the official website, the rods shrink “instantly”. During their fight, Naruto is able to react to the chakra rods as soon as...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Nah, we have feats for our stuff. This definitely belongs here. The verse where you can be (apparently) 4-B without even busting a planet.
 
Imagine going through the effort to screenshot, edit, and then host on a website a small, off-hand comment. Now that's taking the bait. Stay obsessed with me 🚬
 
Last edited:
Banjo77 said:
In 1, yes, that's what I meant.
Click to expand...
Kakashi demonstrates better feats like fighting Rinnegan Obito, fighting alongside Minato, intercepting a TSO, and being able to warp a dashing KCM2 clone with Kamui
Banjo77 said:
In 2, no. I think Kakashi Susano is above Indra Susano Sasuke. Considering that Sasuke only sees Naruto as the only threat despite seeing DMS Kakashi
Click to expand...
Um...these sentences seem to be contradictory?
Foriaa said:
Ashura and Indra (Naruto and Sasuke) > ETSO, other than that I agree.
Click to expand...
Why
 
MeiouHades said:
I don't know, but I am. I've yet to see a reason to believe the cosmology isn't just 4-A at best. That's probably generous too, since the entire bulk of the story involves but a single continent and a few smaller countries.
Click to expand...
4-A? I should have known you're just a glazer…
The Last confirms the existence of miniature fake suns so there's no reason to believe all stars in the verse aren't like that
 
Samlex1234 said:
How can you be 4B for bursting a planet? What does planet bursting have to do with a Solar System feat?
Click to expand...
You can't, but if you don't even have that, then 4-B is outta the question as far as its validity/legitimacy is concerned. Or put it this way, how can you be 4-B for busting a mountain? Because that's what most of the feats in the verse are. Characters who can planet bust casually are far likelier to be 4-B than those who can't.

Edit: Actually you can be 4-B or close to it for planet busting. Frieza is an example.
 
Naruto verse being above planet level without on screen planet or at least small planet or at least moon level feat is uh...diabolical ngl. Wait ...they don't even have direct planet level statements.
 
DavidTPPM said:
You don't need to bust a planet for any tier lmao. That's like saying you need to break a glass window if you want to be considered at least average human level.
Click to expand...
No but if you do break a glass window (or something stronger) I'd say there's a damn good chance you're above average human level and I'd have proof to solidly claim that. It's so funny seeing people repeat this "but 4-Bs/2-Cs/3-As dont need to bust planets!!!!" when that isn't the point.
 
Agreed. If their phrasing is completely unambiguous, for instance, "I have gathered enough energy to blow up the solar system". Bonus points if you can figure out where that's from.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Kakashi demonstrates better feats like fighting Rinnegan Obito, fighting alongside Minato, intercepting a TSO, and being able to warp a dashing KCM2 clone with Kamui

Um...these sentences seem to be contradictory?

Why
Click to expand...
But there's no reason for Kakashi to be any different than he was at the beginning of the war. Correct me, but wasn't Obito faking it so Kakashi would break the seal?

Oh, one thing, but what does DMS Kakashi do with this tier over Naruto and Sasuke?
 
Banjo77 said:
But there's no reason for Kakashi to be any different than he was at the beginning of the war.
Click to expand...
Fighting makes one stronger
Banjo77 said:
Correct me, but wasn't Obito faking it so Kakashi would break the seal?
Click to expand...
Obito meant to get stabbed, but if he was holding back in stats it'd be pretty obvious given that Kakashi saw Obito fighting KCM2 Naruto
Banjo77 said:
Oh, one thing, but what does DMS Kakashi do with this tier over Naruto and Sasuke?
Click to expand...
Blitzed ETSO Kaguya
 
MeiouHades said:
No but if you do break a glass window (or something stronger) I'd say there's a damn good chance you're above average human level and I'd have proof to solidly claim that. It's so funny seeing people repeat this "but 4-Bs/2-Cs/3-As dont need to bust planets!!!!" when that isn't the point.
Click to expand...
This doesn't even make any sense. You said a verse claiming planetary when their best on screen feats is mountain level is ridiculous yet you're eager to say if you can burst a planet there is a good chance you can be 4B.

You realise the difference between planetary and mountain level is smaller than the difference between planetary and solar system?

Like dude it's equally absurd.

If you say if you can burst a planet then you could as well be 4B then if you can burst a mountain you can as well be planetary. You're putting an imaginary bench mark made by yourself to favour your series that once you burst a planet then every other tier above won't carry as much skeptism as people who have not.


Man you should hear yourself sometimes.
 
MeiouHades said:
No but if you do break a glass window (or something stronger) I'd say there's a damn good chance you're above average human level and I'd have proof to solidly claim that. It's so funny seeing people repeat this "but 4-Bs/2-Cs/3-As dont need to bust planets!!!!" when that isn't the point.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif


images


if goatku is planet lvl why did he need to block bullets??? how did he get hurt?? why didn't he destroy the bullets is he stupid...
lbc13ff9dscb1.jpg
 
Last edited:
TheGreatBanana said:
Naruto verse being above planet level without on screen planet or at least small planet or at least moon level feat is uh...diabolical ngl. Wait ...they don't even have direct planet level statements.
Click to expand...
Dude
DB doesn't have plant busting either..its just chain reaction...
 
karo_senpaii said:
This doesn't even make any sense. You said a verse claiming planetary when their best on screen feats is mountain level is ridiculous yet you're eager to say if you can burst a planet there is a good chance you can be 4B.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't get what's so confusing about it. Who's more likely to be 4-B? Someone who has only busted mountains at best or someone who can detonate planets and make them go supernova? I don't know if you're being purposefully obtuse here (no offense, of course) but if not, then yeah the latter is far more likely.
karo_senpaii said:
You realise the difference between planetary and mountain level is smaller than the difference between planetary and solar system?
Click to expand...
Sure. Now tell me which one is closer to solar system. Planetary or mountain?
karo_senpaii said:
Like dude it's equally absurd.
Click to expand...
No it's not. Beings already capable of cosmic-level destruction vs beings who haven't shown such destructive capacity. Why's it so hard to understand....?
karo_senpaii said:
If you say if you can burst a planet then you could as well be 4B then if you can burst a mountain you can as well be planetary.
Click to expand...
Sure, but this is about being 4-B. I don't contest that Naruto can be planetary, I've argued him there myself.
karo_senpaii said:
You're putting an imaginary bench mark made by yourself to favour your series that once you burst a planet then every other tier above won't carry as much skeptism as people who have not.
Click to expand...
No, that's not what I'm doing. If you told me casual planet busting means you can be Low 1-C (a small instance of your example) I'd look at you like you had lost your mind, but if you bust a universe or multiple, then yeah there's a good chance you could be Low 1-C. So no, that's a total strawman to try and avoid a point that is literally unavoidable that I've already hammered countless time above already.
karo_senpaii said:
Man you should hear yourself sometimes.
Click to expand...
I do. That's how I know I'm right.
 
MeiouHades said:
Yeah, I don't get what's so confusing about it. Who's more likely to be 4-B? Someone who has only busted mountains at best or someone who can detonate planets and make them go supernova? I don't know if you're being purposefully obtuse here (no offense, of course) but if not, then yeah the latter is far more likely.

Sure. Now tell me which one is closer to solar system. Planetary or mountain?

No it's not. Beings already capable of cosmic-level destruction vs beings who haven't shown such destructive capacity. Why's it so hard to understand....?

Sure, but this is about being 4-B. I don't contest that Naruto can be planetary, I've argued him there myself.

No, that's not what I'm doing. If you told me casual planet busting means you can be Low 1-C (a small instance of your example) I'd look at you like you had lost your mind, but if you bust a universe or multiple, then yeah there's a good chance you could be Low 1-C. So no, that's a total strawman to try and avoid a point that is literally unavoidable that I've already hammered countless time above already.

I do. That's how I know I'm right.
Click to expand...
1. If your argument was I'm more likely to be inclined to believe someone with planetary busting and solar system statements or implications than someone with mountain level feats and solar system statements s then this would be fine. But you straight up said the later is absurd and believed the former. I'm pointing out to you that both are equally absurd based on your perception of feats.

Like the difference between planetary and solar system level is more than trillions, mountain level is like well taken that and multiply it by trillions. None of the 2 helps prove solar system level. Be consistent in your scrutiny.

2. Like I said you're creating a standard and expecting everyone to abide by it. Stop grouping cosmic things together. I'm not gonna believe someone could be galaxy level just coz he destroyed a planet.

3. That's exactly what you're doing. You think that someone who destroyed a universe could be capable of being low 1c possibly yet you find it hard to believe someone who can destroy a mountain could be solar system level. Dude there is an entire higher level of infinity between 2c and low1c and even with that you're still not at low1c.

By your logic you find it harder believing a higher than infinity level gap than quadrillions.


Actually I just realised your logic is big boom boom visuals= more believably stronger. If not why else would you say something this absurd. I won't really say the logic is so terrible, I get visuals and all but yeah would not have wasted my time typing if I knew this earlier
 
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