2025 JJK Upgrade CRT

[PowerToScale]

Not really considering it was done through unknown means and far outscales all his own and sukuna's strongest shit we see, without the other stuff being valid it'd likely just be an outlier as on its own it'd be inconsistent to their highest shit

One random off screen earthquake feat that's tens or hundreds of thousands of times stronger than his normal and 200% output purple or sukuna's divine flame

If the other 7-A shit falls apart that goes too as it becomes wildly inconsistent to their other strongest narrative feats

Range and level of destruction can be limited/controlled in JJK. The argument of Sukuna and Gojo's damage in their final fight wasn't as strong or powerful as the earthquake feat would be wrong to compare. Prime example is Yuki, even while completely bisected (which we know in jjk when taking massive damage like limb lost nerfs you significantly and your CT) which is also cuts through her belly (the core of cursed energy for sorcerers) is able to still control the range and level of destruction of her black hole to a underground town instead of the whole planet.

So Gojo's attacks against Sukuna would still be at that level, just not the destruction. Especially when allies are with few km range waiting to step in.

 

[PowerToScale]

Regarding Mechamaru's feat, correct me if wrong, but it seems like DMUA actually rejected the calculation. On the other hand, there are a few other things that concern me.
Firstly, for Mechamaru's “regular output” they used the power output from his Ultimate Cannon, which is a little odd as that seems to be one of his most powerful techniques (if not the most powerful one). It would be like assuming he could spam his ultimate attack whenever he wanted to.
Secondly, this is basically a multiplier, and these have to meet some standards in order to be applied. According to the Multipliers page, multipliers require direct statements and can't be reasoned from something else​

Not a direct rejection, the math was fine but he had concerns on the scaling + he didn't really know about this crt and other feats so he based his assumption on what was already on the pages. In terms of output, the ultimate canon itself isn't that much of an impressive attack, the increase in power is akin to getting more serious, especially that Mechamaru matches/exceeds the ultimate canon with with no charge attacks too

The multiplier comes from the direct showing of energy increase when performing the attack in the robot, directly showing a increase from regular to 1-5 years worth of energy.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

The argument of the offense would assuming the existence of that blackness implies the black hole already formed despite everything else saying it didn't

no it implies it is still in process of formation, hell even in the real world we would not know what a black hole forming would even look like so we can simply chuck it up to artistic liberty in order to explain an event we have no real data on.

 

[Baken384]

Neutral about Class P….

 

[Arkenis]

Neutral about Class P….

I am as well. I can see it being discarded but still should have some discussions. I was going to leave it out of this crt and it can still be considering the AP is already a big discussion.

 

[Baken384]

I am as well. I can see it being discarded but still should have some discussions. I was going to leave it out of this crt and it can still be considering the AP is already a big discussion.

Id feel more confident for Class P if there was more supporting feats for it, like a Class T feat but as of right now JJK is more Class M to low G, making it feel more out of place than for example AP where there is more evidence for 7-A.

 

[Passersby]

If you want the mechamaru calc to be taken seriously bring idesputable objective evidence mechamaru can spam his ultimate Canon attack every single second forever (with his of course appearently inexhaustible reseve of ce)
and that the 1 year charge is his cursed energy expidenture in a day x 365


Otherwise no one is really taking it seriously, it's just not working

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Congratulations, you have just invalidated the entire calc.

If the reason the environmental effects don’t line up with a black hole’s gravitational force is because Yuki is suppressing it, then you cannot then turn around and calc Kenjaku’s resistance as if he were resisting its full force.

not necesserly, as the main point of both tangen and yuki holding the black hole back was not to lower its output but more so its range so as to not let it destroy the world (since the output was there as stated by word of god so can't really argue there can we?)

 

[Passersby]

no it implies it is still in process of formation, hell even in the real world we would not know what a black hole forming would even look like so we can simply chuck it up to artistic liberty in order to explain an event we have no real data on.

i mean yes, that was the main point in both me and @Epyriel 's stuff, we argued in the scans presented in the calc, the black hole had yet to form

not necesserly, as the main point of both tangen and yuki holding the black hole back was not to lower its output but more so its range so as to not let it destroy the world

....uhh, to reduce the range, reducing the output is needed, otherwise the planet is toast, i thought that was the point of her holding the black hole back with her will

 

[PowerToScale]

If you want the mechamaru calc to be taken seriously bring idesputable objective evidence mechamaru can spam his ultimate Canon attack every single second forever (with his of course appearently inexhaustible reseve of ce)
and that the 1 year charge is his cursed energy expidenture in a day x 365


Otherwise no one is really taking it seriously, it's just not working

Mechamaru can use the attack over an over again, in the fight with panda he directly states he can't fire it after taking too much damage to the puppets body resulting in him losing the attack. Not only that but the power of the canon is matched with other attacks that aren't as charged up.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

i mean yes, that was the main point in both me and @Epyriel 's stuff, we argued in the scans presented in the calc, the black hole had yet to form

I am in agreement with that but there is still clear effects of gravity on kenjaku and we should consider recaluculating it with the potential mass needed to cause such effects (would net us a more destinct tiering system for jjk so I am all for it)

....uhh, to reduce the range, reducing the output is needed, otherwise the planet is toast, i thought that was the point of her holding the black hole back with her will

not necceserly as tangen had total control over the barriers the black hole was within on a spacial level (similar to domains but to a far greater extent) and due to this control it can be argued that it simply was limited in range due to spacial manipulation inherent to tangen's abilities, as we can't fully argue for a total decrease in output of the black hole because it managed to form in the first place and if the effects of gravity where weakened it would not be able to do so.

 

[Arkenis]

If you want the mechamaru calc to be taken seriously bring idesputable objective evidence mechamaru can spam his ultimate Canon attack every single second forever (with his of course appearently inexhaustible reseve of ce)
and that the 1 year charge is his cursed energy expidenture in a day x 365


Otherwise no one is really taking it seriously, it's just not working

Is it not questionable to you, that you acknowledge the guy has the capacity to use large amounts of ce, as he can exceed the limits of his cursed energy yet you still ask for "indisputable objective evidence". What else would one year of cursed energy be???

 

[Passersby]

Mechamaru can use the attack over an over again, in the fight with panda he directly states he can't fire it after taking too much damage to the puppets body resulting in him losing the attack. Not only that but the power of the canon is matched with other attacks that aren't as charged up.

"over and over again" isn't indesputable nor objective evidence for "i can use it 86 thousand times a day for as long as i'm alive"

I am in agreement with that but there is still clear effects of gravity on kenjaku and would should consider recaluculating it with the potential mass needed to cause such effects

agreed
that was kinda the whole point of the previous pages lol

not necceserly as tangen had total control over the barriers the black hole was within on a spacial level (similar to domains but to a far greater extent) and due to this control it can be argued that it simply was limited in range due to spacial manipulation inherent to tangen's abilities,

space shenannigans is funky when it comes to black holes, this really just means that's unkown territory we have idea how to thread on really

and i'd still lean to yuki reducing her output enough for tengen's barriers to be able to do whatever they needed to to reduce the damage, and of course the black hole was formed, what i'm arguing for is the decrease of it's effects on its surroundings due to yuki's will and her control over the CT

 

[MrTayman616]

What are the arguments rn?

 

[Passersby]

that you acknowledge the guy has the capacity to use large amounts of ce,

....my guy, "large" and "infinite" are 2 very different concepts, "large" is a spectrum, saying he has a "large rserve" when not a single showing or statement in the entire series even hints at the possibility of whatever the calc asssumed to justify that assumption is bs

what in the series, besides the vague description of "he has lots of ce bro", hints at the possibility of an inexhaustible ce reserve capable of endlessly spamming attacks whenever?

and the scan says he can exceed his cursed energy output not quantity
do you honest to god read what you send?

 

[Arkenis]

saying he has a "large rserve" when not a single showing or statement in the entire series even hints at the possibility of whatever the calc asssumed to justify that assumption is bs

In order to have a high output the characters need to have a large reserve. This is generally every character that has high output, has large reserve. It wouldn't make sense for someone's output to be high but have low reserves.

what in the series, besides the vague description of "he has lots of ce bro", hints at the possibility of an inexhaustible ce reserve capable of endlessly spamming attacks whenever?

and the scan says he can exceed his cursed energy output not quantity
do you honest to god read what you send?

Maybe I'm not really reading you right, I thought this was about his big robot's amount? Now you're asking for regular mechmaru's amount? And you want to know if he can keep doing ultimate cannon every second of the day? Definitionally speaking, output is quantity, that's why I brought it up, he's telling us he can exceed the quantity of ce he can output.

 

[Electronic74947]

Where did you get the x10 multiplier?

Meguna vs maki and Yuji was working at 10% CE output. Maki was awakened and equal to Toji who should scale to pre awakened gojo afaik

 

[Electronic74947]

What chapter does it take up 5yrs of him just in hand to hand?

It doesn’t. That’s my point. Jjk fans cant READ

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Nuke all of JJK and CSM except for the Makima (Best Ass) and Maki (Best Tomboy) Profiles.

 

[Arkenis]

It doesn’t. That’s my point. Jjk fans cant READ

What

Regarding the Mechamaru calc. We have another calc where the baseline energy used to power him is just the KE through walking and then the multiplier. The multiplier shouldn't really be an issue here since it's directly shown that it takes up 5 years worth of Mechamaru's CE while just powering the robot to fight in hand to hand doesn't even take more than a minutes worth up in the anime

 

[Electronic74947]

What

while just powering the robot to fight in hand to hand doesn't even take more than a minutes worth up in the anime

 

[Passersby]

In order to have a high output the characters need to have a large reserve. This is generally every character that has high output, has large reserve. It wouldn't make sense for someone's output to be high but have low reserves.

baring the fact that, no, just because the character has a high output, doesn't inherently imply their reserves are higher to match it

this still means nothing

Maybe I'm not really reading you right, I thought this was about his big robot's amount?

true

Now you're asking for regular mechmaru's amount?

because it determines the robot's assuming the "1 year charge" is mechmaru's curse energy quanitity in a day x 365

And you want to know if he can keep doing ultimate cannon every second of the day?

because that's literally what the calc implies, so yes

Definitionally speaking, output is quantity,

that's objectively wrong

quanity is how much you have, ie your reserve, output is how much you can of take out of the reserve at once

and even if he could exceed the limits of his quantity, that's still not good evidence for the claim of "he can use the attack 86 thousand times a day forever"

 

[PowerToScale]

"over and over again" isn't indesputable nor objective evidence for "i can use it 86 thousand times a day for as long as i'm alive"

....my guy, "large" and "infinite" are 2 very different concepts, "large" is a spectrum, saying he has a "large rserve" when not a single showing or statement in the entire series even hints at the possibility of whatever the calc asssumed to justify that assumption is bs

what in the series, besides the vague description of "he has lots of ce bro", hints at the possibility of an inexhaustible ce reserve capable of endlessly spamming attacks whenever?

My guy have you not read the story, 17 years of cursed energy is not enough? That's more than definitely an inexhaustible amount of cursed energy. Unless you think his 17 years of cursed energy is specifically limited to the robot like binding vow or something.

 

[PowerToScale]

and even if he could exceed the limits of his quantity, that's still not good evidence for the claim of "he can use the attack 86 thousand times a day forever"

You're mudding the arguments here by saying forever, no one is saying he can do it FOREVER

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

My guy have you not read the story,

JJK Fans are supposed to read the story?

 

[Electronic74947]

I'm curious if it's possibly to calc the feat even if it's far far smaller cause I agree with the fact that Yuki hasn't died she hasn't reach enough mASS to turn into a black hole, just her mASS was high enough to attract kenjaku

 

[Tago238]

Personally I don’t care about the mass energy stuff. I think there’s decentish evidence for it, but it’s probably not as strong as much else and since JJK is a bit downgrade coded at least in the hearts and minds of VSBW users I just wouldn’t take it to be very convincing.

 

[Tago238]

I'm curious if it's possibly to calc the feat even if it's far far smaller cause I agree with the fact that Yuki hasn't died she hasn't reach enough mASS to turn into a black hole, just her mASS was high enough to attract kenjaku

I’m confused what people think the black void surrounding her is. I asked the Epyrean (I think that’s what it was I can’t be bothered to go back and check) if he thought it was like, super compressed matter or smthn and he didn’t reply.

 

[MrTayman616]

I'm curious if it's possibly to calc the feat even if it's far far smaller cause I agree with the fact that Yuki hasn't died she hasn't reach enough mASS to turn into a black hole, just her mASS was high enough to attract kenjaku

That just makes it "the gravity required to pull a person fast", no? The result wouldn't be anything high.

 

[Electronic74947]

That just makes it "the gravity required to pull a person fast", no? The result wouldn't be anything high.

fair

I’m confused what people think the black void surrounding her is. I asked the Epyrean (I think that’s what it was I can’t be bothered to go back and check) if he thought it was like, super compressed matter or smthn and he didn’t reply.

idfk lol

Can we please try to find more supporting town level calcs anyway, we got the new mechamaru one. Uruame is another,

 

[PowerToScale]

Upon rereading the fight, I have noticed that the year charge of Mechamaru's ultra canon as he calls it that in the big robot. Updating the calc to this information puts Mechamaru and other SG at 7-A still, only just a bit above baseline

Edit: I've added a physical end to Mechamaru as it would make the most sense for his regular energy to scale to its physicals

 

[Electronic74947]

Upon rereading the fight, I have noticed that the year charge of Mechamaru's ultra canon as he calls it that in the big robot. Updating the calc to this information puts Mechamaru and other SG at 7-A still, only just a bit above baseline

But it's still assuming that ultimate canon equates to the same energy per second lol

 

[Tago238]

fair

idfk lol

Can we please try to find more supporting town level calcs anyway, we got the new mechamaru one. Uruame is another,

Nobody seems to be able to argue this yet still rallies to the idea that it wasn’t a black hole there.

 

[Electronic74947]

Nobody seems to be able to argue this yet still rallies to the idea that it wasn’t a black hole there.

she's still alive thats the issue, she became a black hole due to increasing her mASS

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Regarding the Mechamaru calc. We have another calc where the baseline energy used to power him is just the KE through walking and then the multiplier. The multiplier shouldn't really be an issue here since it's directly shown that it takes up 5 years worth of Mechamaru's CE while just powering the robot to fight in hand to hand doesn't even take more than a minutes worth up in the anime

The multiplier is still an issue regardless, because it simply doesn't come from a direct statement and was derived from something else instead, which is explicitly prohibited by the wiki rules. While we do know Mechamaru is using years' worth of accumulated CE, thus making his regular attacks much stronger than usual, there is no indication that necessarily implies a 30 million multiplier (or any other number). We also lack supportive evidence, which is strictly necessary for such a big multiplier.​

 

[GunshyFever]

The multiplier is still an issue regardless, because it simply doesn't come from a direct statement and was derived from something else instead, which is explicitly prohibited by the wiki rules. While we do know Mechamaru is using years' worth of accumulated CE, thus making his regular attacks much stronger than usual, there is no indication that necessarily implies a 30 million multiplier (or any other number). We also lack supportive evidence, which is strictly necessary for such a big multiplier.​

This isn't a word document, you use regular text

 

[Electronic74947]

The multiplier is still an issue regardless, because it simply doesn't come from a direct statement and was derived from something else instead, which is explicitly prohibited by the wiki rules. While we do know Mechamaru is using years' worth of accumulated CE, thus making his regular attacks much stronger than usual, there is no indication that necessarily implies a 30 million multiplier (or any other number). We also lack supportive evidence, which is strictly necessary for such a big multiplier.​

I’m pretty sure we’ve used calcs like this before. More specifically for platinum sperm. It was also accepted anyways

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

The girl literally uses cursed energy to create objects.

Most creation feats consist of creating things out of nothing, which usually consumes some sort of energy from the character performing the feat (this is also in the Creation Feats page), whether it is mana, ki, chakra, CE, etc.; doesn’t really matter. Nevertheless, that doesn't imply there is a mass-energy conversion process taking place, hence the need for clear statements clarifying that we can actually use the E = mc² formula. If said statement doesn’t exist, then the formula can’t be used and we must treat the feat as a regular creation feat instead (that’s kind of the whole point of the creations feats page existence).​

Nothing here means rejection, it means this has to be consistent to what we're scaling it too, the special grades sorcerers. And if cgm deem it acceptable.

Then I guess you could at most deem his response as neutral, since he never seemed to accept the calculation. I would ask him again to make sure though.
​

How about the output being compared to the literal strongest people of the verse

That doesn't really work, since we never really saw Mechamaru harming one of the top tiers. His power output being comparable to them would only make it consisted with the power levels of other characters, so the calculation couldn't be deemed as an outlier. However, this doesn't support the claim of Mechamaru's attacks becoming 30 million times stronger.​

 

[Electronic74947]

I'm curious if the frost calm calc can get higher than the 2kt?

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I’m pretty sure we’ve used calcs like this before. More specifically for platinum sperm. It was also accepted anyways

I don't know about that calculation, but if it shares the same issues as Mechamaru's, then I think it should be removed.

This really seems very straight forward to me, there are two main requirements for a multiplier to be valid:

1. A direct statement.
2. Strong supportive evidence in case of a 100x multiplier or above (which is the case here).

And none of those requirements are being met.

The multipliers page also quite explicitly says that multipliers shouldn’t be reasoned from something else, which is pretty much what was done here.
The conclusion becomes clear then: The multiplier can’t be used since it simply violates the wiki rules.