2025 JJK Upgrade CRT

[Baken384]

Does toji scale to class p

 

[Arkenis]

a person with the mass of the moon would like nothing because they'd be dead

Yeah in the real world. Yuki's CT allows her to create virtual mass only up to the point she creates a BH, before that there is no effects on her. Therefore, what we're seeing is her reaching that point and a BH is formed and she continues to increase it's mass.

That is exactly my point which you seemed to have missed.

A person with the mass of the moon would be depicted much the same way.

They would look like a black pit of density, and would have a significant gravitational force.

And yet still wouldn’t be even close to dense enough to form a black hole.

It's fiction man. You're nitpicking to such an extent, there isn't even a meaningful way to respond to this because of how disingenuous this seems. Characters that move at MHS should be burning away their clothes, the area would be torn apart every instance, characters with Class T would create chasms when they grapple with each other. None of what you brought up is a rejection for BH's either.

 

[Arkenis]

They would look like a black pit of density, and would have a significant gravitational force.

Just arguing to argue. Said before, not every feat can be to your liking.

 

[Epyriel]

Dawg you literally said “the physics don’t make sense in this scene” what physics don’t make sense exactly?

Let’s go down the list:
-Supposedly already has 12 quadrillion times gravitational force of the Earth, yet is only beginning to crack the pavement
-Supposedly already a black hole whose gravitational waves travel at the speed of light and would immediately engulf the surrounding area, yet is seemingly waiting on the conversation between Supersonic+ listed characters
-Is sharply non-spherical
-Is still being fed by someone who is somehow both already a black hole yet is still talking and enlarging it


This is a black hole:


This is not:

 

[Passersby]

Yeah in the real world. Yuki's CT allows her to create virtual mass only up to the point she creates a BH, before that there is no effects on her. Therefore, what we're seeing is her reaching that point and a BH is formed and she continues to increase it's mass.

i am fairly certain it is explicitly mentioned she would die when the black hole is formed

in which case, she was still breathing in the panel you sent

so no, the black hole wasn't there yet.

and do you even read your own posts?

Yuki's CT allows her to create virtual mass only up to the point she creates a BH,

and

what we're seeing is her reaching that point and a BH is formed and she continues to increase it's mass.

these don't go togheter mate.

 

[Epyriel]

Just arguing to argue. Said before, not every feat can be to your liking.

Are you somehow still not getting the point?

I am saying this matches up. This looks exactly what someone with the mass of the moon would look like.

Guess what? That isn’t nearly dense enough to be a black hole. That would be 3402 times less massive then what you are claiming.

 

[Tago238]

I am saying this matches up. This looks exactly what someone with the mass of the moon would look like.

Uh, how lol? Not seeing where the blackness is coming from there.

 

[Tago238]

This being a back and forth is sane washing the opposition too much tbh.

 

[Epyriel]

Uh, how lol? Not seeing where the blackness is coming from there.

Do you know how dense a human with the mass of the moon would be? On the order of 1 x 10^24 kg/m^3.

It would immediately be a gaping pit of compressed material.

 

[Tago238]

Do you know how dense a human with the mass of the moon would be? On the order of 1 x 10^24 kg/m^3.

It would immediately be a gaping pit of compressed material.

Okay so you're saying its not the beginnings of light being captured, it's... drawn in mass that's super compressed?

 

[Da3ggman]

Let’s go down the list:
-Supposedly already has 12 quadrillion times gravitational force of the Earth, yet is only beginning to crack the pavement

Yuki’s will explicitly made it so that she mitigated the collateral damage so as to not destroy the planet while ensuring Kenjaku is close enough to kill him; this is a nothing burger of a complaint.

-Supposedly already a black hole whose gravitational waves travel at the speed of light and would immediately engulf the surrounding area, yet is seemingly waiting on the conversation between Supersonic+ listed characters

What the wiki has them as means nothing in the context of the story though? If anything, that’d be a feat for Kenny and Yuki, not an anti-feat for the black home lol.

-Is sharply non-spherical

This is fair enough, I suppose, but it still could be chalked up to Yuki’s will (don’t quote me on that one though, I’m not fully convinced in it in this case)

-Is still being fed by someone who is somehow both already a black hole yet is still talking and enlarging it

Yuki could deadass just make it so she wasn’t absorbed by it until she grabbed Kenjaku; again, her will can already stop it from fully destroying the planet, nothing says she can’t do something similar for herself.

This is a black hole:


This is not:

Bro, do you see how Kenjaku is literally being spun and contorted as he is getting sucked into the thing he calls a black hole? Hell, the text makes it look like it’s being sucked into lol. The obvious intent is that this is a black hole, even if the shape doesn’t look right from that angle.

Edit: I’m in Japan rn, so I probably won’t have any more time to participate in this thread; this’ll be my last reply. Sorry for the cop-out.

 

[Tago238]

I love the "well no way Yuki would have survived this therefore its not real". Okay I guess we'll make a higher level calc for Yuki not getting torn apart then lol.

 

[Epyriel]

Yuki’s will explicitly made it so that she mitigated the collateral damage so as to not destroy the planet while ensuring Kenjaku is close enough to kill him; this is a nothing burger of a complaint.

Yuki could deadass just make it so she wasn’t absorbed by it until she grabbed Kenjaku; again, her will can already stop it from fully destroying the planet, nothing says she can’t do something similar for herself.

Congratulations, you have just invalidated the entire calc.

If the reason the environmental effects don’t line up with a black hole’s gravitational force is because Yuki is suppressing it, then you cannot then turn around and calc Kenjaku’s resistance as if he were resisting its full force.

What the wiki has them as means nothing in the context of the story though? If anything, that’d be a feat for Kenny and Yuki, not an anti-feat for the black home lol.

Sure, but what the wiki has is based on numerous speed statements and timeframes placing these characters around the speed of sound.

If this was already a black hole, their conversation alone would place them as far far higher than the speed of light, giving them a speed feat outlier by a factor of over a million.

Bro, do you see how Kenjaku is literally being spun and contorted as he is getting sucked into the thing he calls a black hole? Hell, the text makes it look like it’s being sucked into lol. The obvious intent is that this is a black hole, even if the shape doesn’t look right from that angle.

If Yuki had the mass of the moon at that moment, or even less, it would give much the same result.

Fun fact: you don’t need the mass of a black hole to have gravity.

 

[Passersby]

first of all

I love the "well no way Yuki would have survived this therefore its not real". Okay I guess we'll make a higher level calc for Yuki not getting torn apart then lol.

can you stop with these useless annoying posts?

second

Yuki’s will explicitly made it so that she mitigated the collateral damage so as to not destroy the planet while ensuring Kenjaku is close enough to kill him; this is a nothing burger of a complaint.

deadass arguing for this implies nothing took full brunt of an actual black hole, assuming it was formed, which it wasn't, hence invalidating the entire thing tbw

What the wiki has them as means nothing in the context of the story though? If anything, that’d be a feat for Kenny and Yuki, not an anti-feat for the black home lol.

and this would be assuming the conclusion rather than coming to it, once again, this is not how that works

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Kenjaku is viewed in a higher status several times, as a person who can't be beaten by conventional means, viewed several times as being on Sukuna and Gojo's level.
Yes, we know, characters can be wrong, their views can be faulty. This isn't meant as a solidification of Kenjaku ~ Gojo & Sukuna. It is meant to show Kenjaku is viewed above everyone else.

1.) The first statement should more than likely refer to Sukuna, since he’s obviously the stronger threat and actually on Gojo’s level.

2.) That statement does not exist. The actual translation, from Lightning, official translator and reputable source, simply says that it’s not as straightforward, not that he cannot be beaten by conventional means. Add this to the fact that Maki has no idea how the fight went, and the fact that Yuki was relying on a faulty plan, and the entire statement is invalid.

3.) Both knowledge claims from Mei Mei. We have no reason to assume she actually knows the strength of people like Yuta, Maki, Hakari, etc.

Anyways, here’s evidence that suggests Kenjaku actually isn’t that guy.

The assassination was done so they don’t have to split their forces against Sukuna, not that Kenjaku is too strong, and that Yuta needs to return quickly as Sukuna is the more important threat.

Yuta suggests as long as he & Hakari are fighting Sukuna, Kenjaku cannot complete his goal, and the only scenario that’s an issue is if Kenjaku sneaks them while they’re dealing with Sukuna.

Kenjaku also just has awful physicals, was stated he got exhausted fighting Choso, the context of the events implies it was referring to the 1v1 they had before Yuki showed up.

Meanwhile Yuta just has numerous statements of Sukuna taking him seriously. As we know, Sukuna’s interest is tied to his strength, more interest means more strength.

Sukuna (Post-Gojo) >~ Yuta > Awakened Yuji ~ Maki > Hakari > Kenjaku.

 

[Da3ggman]

Congratulations, you have just invalidated the entire calc.

If the reason the environmental effects don’t line up with a black hole’s gravitational force is because Yuki is suppressing it, then you cannot then turn around and calc Kenjaku’s resistance as if he were resisting its full force.


Sure, but what the wiki has is based on numerous speed statements and timeframes placing these characters around the speed of sound.

If this was already a black hole, their conversation alone would place them as far far higher than the speed of light, giving them a speed feat outlier by a factor of over a million.


If Yuki had the mass of the moon at that moment, or even less, it would give much the same result.

Fun fact: you don’t need the mass of a black hole to have gravity.

first of all


can you stop with these useless annoying posts?

second


deadass arguing for this implies nothing took full brunt of an actual black hole, assuming it was formed, which it wasn't, hence invalidating the entire thing tbw



and this would be assuming the conclusion rather than coming to it, once again, this is not how that works

Shiiiiiit, I ain’t even gonna hold yall, I got cooked (though I’m sure the feat is valid, I just ain’t the person to argue it). Fair enough.

 

[Arkenis]

2.) That statement does not exist. The actual translation, from Lightning, official translator and reputable source, simply says that it’s not as straightforward, not that he cannot be beaten by conventional means. Add this to the fact that Maki has no idea how the fight went, and the fact that Yuki was relying on a faulty plan, and the entire statement is invalid.

Either interpretation is fine. Not straightforward means they can't beat him down.

3.) Both knowledge claims from Mei Mei. We have no reason to assume she actually knows the strength of people like Yuta, Maki, Hakari, etc.

So characters in the verse who know the characters and are greatly informed sorcerers as Mei Mei is in the world, who helped the planning with Todo and everyone else, doesn't know their strength? Jesus you guys are good at skepticism.

Kenjaku also just has awful physicals, was stated he got exhausted fighting Choso, the context of the events implies it was referring to the 1v1 they had before Yuki showed up.

For someone who bring up translations, TCB has Yuki saying "with Onichan, we weakened his body".

Sukuna (Post-Gojo) >~ Yuta > Awakened Yuji ~ Maki > Hakari > Kenjaku.

Alright bro.

 

[GunshyFever]

This would probably only be 1 page if yall started off with the Gojo calc btw.

 

[Robo432343]

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Either interpretation is fine. Not straightforward means they can't beat him down.

Not necessarily, just doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy. Again, note how Maki has literally no knowledge of the fight and how it went.

So characters in the verse who know the characters and are greatly informed sorcerers as Mei Mei is in the world, who helped the planning with Todo and everyone else, doesn't know their strength? Jesus you guys are good at skepticism.

Uh, yeah? This doesn’t directly attack my point, what would suggest Mei Mei knows anything about Yuta’s arsenal and strength? Let alone the other people.

For someone who bring up translations, TCB has Yuki saying "with Onichan, we weakened his body".

That’s fine, works too, he’s getting worn out by a weakened Yuki with awful SR output and Choso, meanwhile Yuta has feats of damaging Sukuna with a relative CE pool to him and statements where he needs a Cleave to the head to be killed. So, again, still better than Kenjaku.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

This would probably only be 1 page if yall started off with the Gojo calc btw.

we got city mai and mountain kenjaku in the same thread

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

So we all remember what happened at the end of this fight right

 

[Arkenis]

This would probably only be 1 page if yall started off with the Gojo calc btw.

This is like third time someone's brought it up and it has zero to do with the upgrade at hand. Genuinely not understanding if this is about the calcs or about what other verse supporters are willing to accept for JJK.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

This is like third time someone's brought it up and it has zero to do with the upgrade at hand. Genuinely not understanding if this is about the calcs or about what other verse supporters are willing to accept for JJK.

I think it's cuz usually you would implement the straightforward upgrade before the one that requires more scrutiny

 

[Arkenis]

I think it's cuz usually you would implement the straightforward upgrade before the one that requires more scrutiny

The straightforward upgrade has zero to do with upgrading these characters, it is a feat for a character completely unscalable to others besides Sukuna, another character above the rest. Most responses against the calcs so far have been nitpicks on physics and trying to invalidate a number stated for Mechmaru's mech. Just reads less like disagreement, and more like trying to find any way to disagree.

Thankfully most of this has been non mods, so I'll wait for more on them.

 

[Dalesean027]

This would probably only be 1 page if yall started off with the Gojo calc btw.

Not really considering it was done through unknown means and far outscales all his own and sukuna's strongest shit we see, without the other stuff being valid it'd likely just be an outlier as on its own it'd be inconsistent to their highest shit

One random off screen earthquake feat that's tens or hundreds of thousands of times stronger than his normal and 200% output purple or sukuna's divine flame

If the other 7-A shit falls apart that goes too as it becomes wildly inconsistent to their other strongest narrative feats

 

[GunshyFever]

What are the upsides then?

 

[Dalesean027]

What are the upsides then?

I couldn't say but it seems there was more feats for JJK goons to consider apparently since I've seen a few people now say they jumped the gun with this thread and that not all the feats and shit were ready, do yall need like time to actually formulate shit and gather everything? Ik I saw 2 people mention now Gojo has a mountain busting feat somewhere?

If the supports and staff think its necessary you can always temporarily lock the CRT and then just request it be reopened when everything is ready

 

[Arkenis]

Gojo has a mountain busting feat somewhere?

It's a feat of his teen self, which is within the game and requires we first get the anime accepted as canon as apparently the game is canon to the anime which then also has it's own semi contradictions or outright new representations of scenes and fights. This feat is then not in the manga at all. Compared to the issues given with this crt's 7-A scaling, it is something pretty loose on what we allow for scaling. There's also the fact this mountain feat is through Blue, which in the manga at maximum output has never shown the range to destroy a mountain, let alone a building.

Edit: I read from bottom to top so mb. Most of the high end scaling is in this calc from what I gathered seeing the calcs of JJK on the wiki, there's nothing to gather unless some new calcs come out.

 

[Electronic74947]

If the gojo mountain feat in phantom parade does get applied then there’s the possibility we could use the 10x multiplier for weakened 16F sukuna to his FP since he seems relatively to maki

Would make it more consistent with the new earthquake calc


Also iirc Yuji fights a CS that sunk an island

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I want to say that I'm writing this before reading all the replies, so I apologize if I'm repeating something.

I'm specially skeptical about Mai's creation feats. For the mass-energy equivalence formula (E = mc²) to be valid in a feat, there must be a clear statement that is the process which took place, as stated in the Mass-energy conversion feats page.​

Matter-energy conversion should only be used for a calculation if it is clearly stated that this is the progress used.​

And as far as I know, such a statement does not exist. Furthermore, the page suggests that creating an object out of nowhere does not suffice for the mass-energy equivalence formula to be usable (hence the need for clear statements).​

The other reason is that creating matter from nothing, be it now by creating objects out of nowhere, making things grow larger and heavier, or even energy beings taking physical form or regenerating injuries, is that it is almost never intended to work that way. Most of the time the process isn't thought through and simply exists for the plots sake.​

These kinds of feats are actually quantified using the Creation Feats table.
So, as per the wiki standards, the calculation doesn't seem to be usable.


Regarding Mechamaru's feat, correct me if wrong, but it seems like DMUA actually rejected the calculation. On the other hand, there are a few other things that concern me.
Firstly, for Mechamaru's “regular output” they used the power output from his Ultimate Cannon, which is a little odd as that seems to be one of his most powerful techniques (if not the most powerful one). It would be like assuming he could spam his ultimate attack whenever he wanted to.
Secondly, this is basically a multiplier, and these have to meet some standards in order to be applied. According to the Multipliers page, multipliers require direct statements and can't be reasoned from something else​

Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else. That means, for example, that if a verse has powerlevels or statistics, the doubling of a statistic or power level should not be concluded to correspond to the power of the character doubling, unless it is clearly specified to work that way.​

In this case, they applied something close to a 30,000,000x multiplier (which would be the lowest one), however, this value doesn't come from a direct statement and was quite literally reasoned from something else. Furthermore, multipliers that are around 100 (or higher) require strong evidence.​

For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.​

Since a 30 million multiplier is undoubtedly far above 100, there is a necessity for very strong evidence. For this matter, I think Mechamaru harming someone several orders of magnitude stronger than his regular self, or him causing Mountain levels of destruction could suffice, nevertheless, such evidence doesn’t seem to exist.
Once again, according to the wiki standards, it doesn’t look like this calculation could be usable.​

 

[Electronic74947]

Regarding Mechamaru's feat, correct me if wrong, but it seems like DMUA actually rejected the calculation. On the other hand, there are a few other things that concern me.
Firstly, for Mechamaru's “regular output” they used the power output from his Ultimate Cannon, which is a little odd as that seems to be one of his most powerful techniques (if not the most powerful one). It would be like assuming he could spam his ultimate attack whenever he wanted to.
Secondly, this is basically a multiplier, and these have to meet some standards in order to be applied. According to the Multipliers page, multipliers require direct statements and can't be reasoned from something else

In this case, they applied something close to a 30,000,000x multiplier (which would be the lowest one), however, this value doesn't come from a direct statement and was quite literally reasoned from something else. Furthermore, multipliers that are around 100 (or higher) require strong evidence.

Since a 30 million multiplier is undoubtedly far above 100, there is a necessity for very strong evidence. For this matter, I think Mechamaru harming someone several orders of magnitude stronger than his regular self, or him causing Mountain levels of destruction could suffice, nevertheless, such evidence doesn’t seem to exist.
Once again, according to the wiki standards, it doesn’t look like this calculation could be usable.​

Regarding the Mechamaru calc. We have another calc where the baseline energy used to power him is just the KE through walking and then the multiplier. The multiplier shouldn't really be an issue here since it's directly shown that it takes up 5 years worth of Mechamaru's CE while just powering the robot to fight in hand to hand doesn't even take more than a minutes worth up in the anime

 

[MrTayman616]

Regarding the Mechamaru calc. We have another calc where the baseline energy used to power him is just the KE through walking and then the multiplier. The multiplier shouldn't really be an issue here since it's directly shown that it takes up 5 years worth of Mechamaru's CE while just powering the robot to fight in hand to hand doesn't even take more than a minutes worth up in the anime

This makes sense to me (If making it walk and move etc takes seemingly no energy)

 

[Tago238]

Uh, so there seems to be an uncontested misunderstanding here. Not sure which post to reply to but I'm sure the guys who were arguing will see my post.

I do not believe Yuki's suppression implies the whole black hole was suppressed in power. The reason for this is that it's not like the event horizon just sort of exists as a sign of a black hole but it's the black hole we calc, the event horizon itself implies space moving fast enough to capture light and that's what we calc (it's why you can cheat your way into getting the Schwarzschild radius from Newtonin mechanics). Yuki can't really be suppressing the black hole's effect in a local range because we see her not doing that. The interpretation of the statement which just kind of has to be true is that her will stopped the black hole's range from extending past the barrier Tengen made.


Also rip the Yutaliban arrived.

 

[Tago238]

1.) The first statement should more than likely refer to Sukuna, since he’s obviously the stronger threat and actually on Gojo’s level.

2.) That statement does not exist. The actual translation, from Lightning, official translator and reputable source, simply says that it’s not as straightforward, not that he cannot be beaten by conventional means. Add this to the fact that Maki has no idea how the fight went, and the fact that Yuki was relying on a faulty plan, and the entire statement is invalid.

3.) Both knowledge claims from Mei Mei. We have no reason to assume she actually knows the strength of people like Yuta, Maki, Hakari, etc.

Anyways, here’s evidence that suggests Kenjaku actually isn’t that guy.

The assassination was done so they don’t have to split their forces against Sukuna, not that Kenjaku is too strong, and that Yuta needs to return quickly as Sukuna is the more important threat.

Yuta suggests as long as he & Hakari are fighting Sukuna, Kenjaku cannot complete his goal, and the only scenario that’s an issue is if Kenjaku sneaks them while they’re dealing with Sukuna.

Kenjaku also just has awful physicals, was stated he got exhausted fighting Choso, the context of the events implies it was referring to the 1v1 they had before Yuki showed up.

Meanwhile Yuta just has numerous statements of Sukuna taking him seriously. As we know, Sukuna’s interest is tied to his strength, more interest means more strength.

Sukuna (Post-Gojo) >~ Yuta > Awakened Yuji ~ Maki > Hakari > Kenjaku.

Yuki would have still likely lost in her un-faulty plan too, though it isn’t a direct stat comparison. That said if you put Yuta above awakened Yuji or Maki then it doesn’t seem like you’re talking about at all, Yuji was at least equal to Yuta before awakening and pretty far exceeds him afterwards (the guy totally breaks down fighting Sukuna in the domain, yeah he was unprepared but he wasn’t as weakened as Yuji and amped by having a superior body). Maki herself just blatantly performs at a significantly better level physically and captures Sukuna’s interest through that in a way Yuta didn’t really.

I think arguing Kenjaku is relative to Choso as an argument is kind of ridiculous, we know what attacks Choso managed to pull off and it was the super charged convergence (and maybe an attack he made that Kenjaku blocked and didn’t otherwise react to but) which phased Sukuna when Yuji used it too.

Kenjaku fighting Yuki is not unimpressive as Yuki’s entire thing is hitting hard, and she didn’t just hit him hard, she hit him so hard she performed a feat we’ve literally seen nowhere else in the entire series (destroying a barrier while not actually affecting the region of space which corresponds to the barrier).

That said I’m more or less fine with Kenjaku being not tiered as physically that impressive cause it is true he doesn’t have that many feats, he just domain diffs most enemies and that’s why he’s top 4 (Mahoraga is 3).

 

[MrTayman616]

If the other 7-A shit falls apart

Which one?

 

[Giannysmag]

Also rip the Yutaliban arrived.

Yutaliban is insane (but accurate)

 

[Arkenis]

[]I'm specially skeptical about Mai's creation feats. For the mass-energy equivalence formula (E = mc²) to be valid in a feat, there must be a clear statement that is the process which took place, as stated in the Mass-energy conversion feats page.[/] []And as far as I know, such a statement does not exist. Furthermore, the page suggests that creating an object out of nowhere does not suffice for the mass-energy equivalence formula to be usable (hence the need for clear statements).[/] []These kinds of feats are actually quantified using the Creation Feats table.
So, as per the wiki standards, the calculation doesn't seem to be usable.
[/]

The girl literally uses cursed energy to create objects.

Regarding Mechamaru's feat, correct me if wrong, but it seems like DMUA actually rejected the calculation. On the other hand, there are a few other things that concern me.

He is not rejecting it outright.

"If you want to take it as a multiplier, is it actually consistent?"

"I can't help but notice it would place them far and above the strongest character in the series, so"

"Either way it's only in calc group's purfew if it's something unacceptable, so"

Nothing here means rejection, it means this has to be consistent to what we're scaling it too, the special grades sorcerers. And if cgm deem it acceptable.

Since a 30 million multiplier is undoubtedly far above 100, there is a necessity for very strong evidence. For this matter, I think Mechamaru harming someone several orders of magnitude stronger than his regular self, or him causing Mountain levels of destruction could suffice, nevertheless, such evidence doesn’t seem to exist.
Once again, according to the wiki standards, it doesn’t look like this calculation could be usable.

How about the output being compared to the literal strongest people of the verse

since it's directly shown that it takes up 5 years worth of Mechamaru's CE while just powering the robot to fight in hand to hand doesn't even take more than a minutes worth up in the anime

What chapter does it take up 5yrs of him just in hand to hand?

 

[NikHelton]

The

For some reason I can't access your profile, but

Oh shit here we go again

 

[NikHelton]

If the gojo mountain feat in phantom parade does get applied then there’s the possibility we could use the 10x multiplier for weakened 16F sukuna to his FP since he seems relatively to maki

Where did you get the x10 multiplier?