- 2,174
- 861
Intro/Summary
A year ago, a page for Marvel Comics' was made. This gave magic users, including Hulk, abilities like Plot Manipulation, Information Type 2, Concept and Law Manipulation. Many VS Threads involving magic users in Marvel are considered stomps because people are saying that literally every magic attack has 1-A hax and without a resistance to it, the other character gets one shot.
The purpose of this thread isn’t to downgrade the potency of magic to below 1-A levels, it also isn’t gonna be removing much hax. Instead, its proposing that the Durability Negation hax of magic (Plot Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Information Type 2, Concept and Law Manipulation) can still be affected by conventional durability and that its possible to endure, tank or withstand magic without even having hax or magic resistance, depending on the spell of course. This is pretty similar to this Undertale SOUL manipulation CRT, where its proposed that despite Undertale monsters having soul manipulation, you can still defend against their attacks through conventional means.
I am not saying that magic spells do not bypass conventional durability at all. In fact, some of the scans I will be using showcase characters getting their durability or resistance bypassed by magic to a certain degree, such as Iron Man being affected by magical flames due to the fact that it is magic based rather than science based. What I’m proposing will be summarized here:
Possible Counterarguments
As mentioned above, the main reasoning why I’m proposing this is because its very common for people in Marvel to withstand magic attacks despite the fact that they have no magic resistance (examples listed below). I know someone is gonna say “That just means all of these characters have resistance to 1-A tier magic and conceptual/plot/law/info hax!”. Firstly, I have included examples of characters who are explicitly stated to have no magic defence, like Gladiator’s race. In general, characters, powers and technologies that are science based like Iron Man armors or Vision don't have magic resistance, although there may be some exceptions. Additionally, what I’m saying is literally supported by the Magic page: “Also, it is hinted at by Doctor Doom that those without magic are unable to resist any magic attacks something which he also states here.” It also wouldn’t make sense for all of these characters to simply have magic resistance- magic attacks are so common in Marvel that you’d basically be saying the entire verse would have resistance to conceptual and 1-A bullshit, which is contradicted by the very existence of magic vulnerable super powered humans, and the stuff I mentioned above about science based powers/technologies in general having no magic resistance. Hell, even non powered humans have withstood magic attacks without instantly getting taken out of the fight.
Examples
One of the more blatant examples is Gladiator, who is vulnerable to magic. Despite that, in the same scan, he is able to tank a magic blast without getting instantly one shot by conceptual or narrative smurf hax. This isn’t the only example of Gladiator taking magic attacks of course, he is able to take attacks from Cyclops with a portion of the Phoenix Force's power. The Phoenix Force is accepted as magic here. Gladiator has also fought Thor before, and he is fine after being hit by Mjolnir, and is able to continue fighting (Thor's basic attacks are accepted as magic here, check the innate powers section). In a modern comic, Gladiator can take hits from Mjolnir, and although Thor was weakened, he still had a magical aura around his hammer.
Iron Man is also a character who has withstood magic on multiple occasions (examples shown in the next paragraph). Iron Man’s suits, with the exception of his Mysterium Armor, explicitly don’t have magic resistance. Additionally, multiple of his modern armors classify magic as an unknown energy.
The most blatant example I could think of for Iron Man enduring magic is the Silver Centurion withstanding Master Pandemonium's flames. In that scan, Iron Man states that the flames are burning him due to being supernatural, implying that it is something he doesn’t have a defense to. And yet Iron Man is able to power through it, stating that it would take minutes before the flames reach his flesh. In a later comic, Master Pandemonium implies that he melted Iron Man's armor due to its mystical nature (being demonic), and he proceeds to hurt Human Torch, but Johnny is fine afterwards. Johnny Storm is also not resistant to magic, in fact its accepted that magic fire can bypass his conventional fire/heat resistance. For context, Master Pandemonium has magic comparable or stronger than Agatha Harkness, who is considered to be a high-tier sorceress
In Iron Man #600, he takes the Hood's electricity and isn’t significantly hurt. At the time, the Hood’s source of power was the demon possessing him, so its a form of magic. When Madame Masque gained magic powers that the Model 51 is unable to recognize, the armor is able to withstand prolonged exposure to her magical blasts, and is even able to fight back despite Friday ejecting Tony. Even though magic is distanced from the laws of reality, it is still affected by conventional or science based abilities- Iron Man's Silver Centurion armor is able to withstand Mephisto's fire by utilizing cooling systems. He can't really go through the wall of fire, but he isn't even significantly damaged by it.
Luke Cage, a character with no magic resistance, is able to tank the Hood's bullets which have been infused with the Norn Stones' magic. He also withstood the Hood's magical flames. Hawkeye, who doesn’t have superpowers, takes a magic attack from the Hood, and can still get back up and continue firing arrows.
Conclusion
The Magic (Marvel Comics) page should include a new weakness: that despite all of its hax and higher dimensional potency, it can still be affected by conventional durability/resistances to a certain extent. Something like
A year ago, a page for Marvel Comics' was made. This gave magic users, including Hulk, abilities like Plot Manipulation, Information Type 2, Concept and Law Manipulation. Many VS Threads involving magic users in Marvel are considered stomps because people are saying that literally every magic attack has 1-A hax and without a resistance to it, the other character gets one shot.
The purpose of this thread isn’t to downgrade the potency of magic to below 1-A levels, it also isn’t gonna be removing much hax. Instead, its proposing that the Durability Negation hax of magic (Plot Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Information Type 2, Concept and Law Manipulation) can still be affected by conventional durability and that its possible to endure, tank or withstand magic without even having hax or magic resistance, depending on the spell of course. This is pretty similar to this Undertale SOUL manipulation CRT, where its proposed that despite Undertale monsters having soul manipulation, you can still defend against their attacks through conventional means.
I am not saying that magic spells do not bypass conventional durability at all. In fact, some of the scans I will be using showcase characters getting their durability or resistance bypassed by magic to a certain degree, such as Iron Man being affected by magical flames due to the fact that it is magic based rather than science based. What I’m proposing will be summarized here:
Marvel characters who have no resistance to magic, and by extension no resistance to its plot/concept/info/law/soul manipulation, are still able to endure and sometimes tank magic without getting instantly stomped by “1-A smurf hax”. This is because Magic is still affected by conventional durability to some degree. Additionally, some hax based spells like Blackheart's magic mind manipulation can be resisted by those without magic resistance, an example is Daredevil snapping out of Blackheart's mind control through willpower and Spidey's help alone, and not some kind of resistance to narrative/law manipulation or whatever.
Possible Counterarguments
As mentioned above, the main reasoning why I’m proposing this is because its very common for people in Marvel to withstand magic attacks despite the fact that they have no magic resistance (examples listed below). I know someone is gonna say “That just means all of these characters have resistance to 1-A tier magic and conceptual/plot/law/info hax!”. Firstly, I have included examples of characters who are explicitly stated to have no magic defence, like Gladiator’s race. In general, characters, powers and technologies that are science based like Iron Man armors or Vision don't have magic resistance, although there may be some exceptions. Additionally, what I’m saying is literally supported by the Magic page: “Also, it is hinted at by Doctor Doom that those without magic are unable to resist any magic attacks something which he also states here.” It also wouldn’t make sense for all of these characters to simply have magic resistance- magic attacks are so common in Marvel that you’d basically be saying the entire verse would have resistance to conceptual and 1-A bullshit, which is contradicted by the very existence of magic vulnerable super powered humans, and the stuff I mentioned above about science based powers/technologies in general having no magic resistance. Hell, even non powered humans have withstood magic attacks without instantly getting taken out of the fight.
Examples
One of the more blatant examples is Gladiator, who is vulnerable to magic. Despite that, in the same scan, he is able to tank a magic blast without getting instantly one shot by conceptual or narrative smurf hax. This isn’t the only example of Gladiator taking magic attacks of course, he is able to take attacks from Cyclops with a portion of the Phoenix Force's power. The Phoenix Force is accepted as magic here. Gladiator has also fought Thor before, and he is fine after being hit by Mjolnir, and is able to continue fighting (Thor's basic attacks are accepted as magic here, check the innate powers section). In a modern comic, Gladiator can take hits from Mjolnir, and although Thor was weakened, he still had a magical aura around his hammer.
Iron Man is also a character who has withstood magic on multiple occasions (examples shown in the next paragraph). Iron Man’s suits, with the exception of his Mysterium Armor, explicitly don’t have magic resistance. Additionally, multiple of his modern armors classify magic as an unknown energy.
The most blatant example I could think of for Iron Man enduring magic is the Silver Centurion withstanding Master Pandemonium's flames. In that scan, Iron Man states that the flames are burning him due to being supernatural, implying that it is something he doesn’t have a defense to. And yet Iron Man is able to power through it, stating that it would take minutes before the flames reach his flesh. In a later comic, Master Pandemonium implies that he melted Iron Man's armor due to its mystical nature (being demonic), and he proceeds to hurt Human Torch, but Johnny is fine afterwards. Johnny Storm is also not resistant to magic, in fact its accepted that magic fire can bypass his conventional fire/heat resistance. For context, Master Pandemonium has magic comparable or stronger than Agatha Harkness, who is considered to be a high-tier sorceress
In Iron Man #600, he takes the Hood's electricity and isn’t significantly hurt. At the time, the Hood’s source of power was the demon possessing him, so its a form of magic. When Madame Masque gained magic powers that the Model 51 is unable to recognize, the armor is able to withstand prolonged exposure to her magical blasts, and is even able to fight back despite Friday ejecting Tony. Even though magic is distanced from the laws of reality, it is still affected by conventional or science based abilities- Iron Man's Silver Centurion armor is able to withstand Mephisto's fire by utilizing cooling systems. He can't really go through the wall of fire, but he isn't even significantly damaged by it.
Luke Cage, a character with no magic resistance, is able to tank the Hood's bullets which have been infused with the Norn Stones' magic. He also withstood the Hood's magical flames. Hawkeye, who doesn’t have superpowers, takes a magic attack from the Hood, and can still get back up and continue firing arrows.
Conclusion
The Magic (Marvel Comics) page should include a new weakness: that despite all of its hax and higher dimensional potency, it can still be affected by conventional durability/resistances to a certain extent. Something like
Last edited:
