Yamato (One Piece) vs Sarada

[Kachon123]

And if you want to argue that several layers isn't currently accepted that's fine because it still counts as one layer at the bare minimum based on function. Bluegrass' by transitive property would be 2, and Yamato's already scales above this through Ace and Bonney.

Yamato quite literally is accepted as scaling to Ace's Haki. She also scales above Bonney's and to Greenbull's, who both directly scale above Bluegrass'.

We're circling.

 

[karo_senpaii]

We're circling.

You're counting 1 layer then 2 layers . Instead of baseline and then 1 layer.
Vegapunk is baseline, bluegrass 1 layer, yamato being un affected has resistance to 1layer

 

[Kachon123]

You're counting 1 layer then 2 layers . Instead of baseline and then 1 layer.
Vegapunk is baseline, bluegrass 1 layer, yamato being un affected has resistance to 1layer

Vegapunk is not baseline, it is one layer due to the Seraphim, who have this

Resistance to:

• Madness Manipulation, Mind Manipulation & Soul Manipulation via Willpower (Through sheer willpower they can resist losing their mind when absorbing shadows through the Kage Kage no Mi. Shadows belonging to strong willed people are difficult to control, allowing them to rebel against Moria's pact which usually immediately submits a shadow to his supremacy and orders. Spiritual energy is contained within one's soul/life; this energy is represented by the fighting power or the Haki itself. Those with strong souls, which are homologous to shadows, resist the effects of Brook's soul manipulation)

Bluegrass is 2. Bonney is 3. Yamato scale above Bonney through various means.

Ace was 5 layers, and Yamato scales to Ace as well.

This is all above Sarada's 2.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Vegapunk is not baseline, it is one layer due to the Seraphim, who have this

Bluegrass is 2. Bonney is 3. Yamato scale above Bonney through various means.

Ace was 5 layers, and Yamato scales to Ace as well.

This is all above Sarada's 2.

I don't see the link between vegapunk and the seraphim.
Also these layers you're talking of is just superior Haki, I don't see how it relates to what we're talking about

 

[Kachon123]

I don't see the link between vegapunk and the seraphim.

The Seraphim are Pacifista that are also under the authority hierarchy.

Also these layers you're talking of is just superior Haki, I don't see how it relates to what we're talking about

Haki's layers is exactly what allows Bluegrass' ability to work.

She can turn any object or living being she surpasses in haki into a mount. She's the sworn elder sister of Great Advisor Tsuru.

 

[karo_senpaii]

The Seraphim are Pacifista that are also under the authority hierarchy.

Haki's layers is exactly what allows Bluegrass' ability to work.

1. What I mean is they are very clearly different types of MM. One is basically programming like robots and the other is resisting loosing your mind. Slapping layers on them doesn't make sense.
2. And I agree anyone with higher Haki than her resists and gets a layer but for there to be a further layer to her ability where does it come from? Coz from what I know you get layers from overcoming and ability . If they overcome her ability they get 1 Layer.
Overcoming another person's haki doesn't grant you a layer of resistance to that person's resistance. That makes no sense

 

[Kachon123]

1. What I mean is they are very clearly different types of MM. One is basically programming like robots and the other is resisting loosing your mind. Slapping layers on them doesn't make sense.

Losing your mind is not all the quote mentioned though?

Resistance to:

• Madness Manipulation, Mind Manipulation & Soul Manipulation via Willpower (Through sheer willpower they can resist losing their mind when absorbing shadows through the Kage Kage no Mi. Shadows belonging to strong willed people are difficult to control, allowing them to rebel against Moria's pact which usually immediately submits a shadow to his supremacy and orders. Spiritual energy is contained within one's soul/life; this energy is represented by the fighting power or the Haki itself. Those with strong souls, which are homologous to shadows, resist the effects of Brook's soul manipulation)

Relative situations.

2. And I agree anyone with higher Haki than her resists and gets a layer but for there to be a further layer to her ability where does it come from? Coz from what I know you get layers from overcoming and ability . If they overcome her ability they get 1 Layer.

Could you rephrase this? Are you asking why people get higher layers from Bluegrass? If so, it's because they're able to effect her with their Haki-infused ability while she's unable to resist.

Overcoming another person's haki doesn't grant you a layer of resistance to that person's resistance. That makes no sense

Yes it does.Law overpowered Tashigi's Haki and spatial manipulation resistance with his own Haki, and Smoker's Haki which was shown and stated relative to Law's was able to resist the spatial manipulation.

Overpowering the resistance of someone's Haki with the Haki of your own means that your Haki has a greater resistance. This is accepted.

 

[That_moron2]

@Dark_Soul20189 downgrade ftl one piece

 

[SeijiSetto]

Well that interpretation is incorrect.



It's directly about potency, not distance.

i'm only lurking this thread but the wording used implies physical range to me
自分の覇気の及ぶ範囲のあらゆる生物・物を乗り物にする
覇気の及ぶ範囲 (haki no oyobu hani) as the physical range of where her haki reaches as opposed to a power level type thing

 

[Godernet]

Haki also isn’t layered hax resistance it’s layers Haki resistance

Greater Haki beats out weaker Haki, which allows the greater Haki user to affect the weaker opponent with their DF abilities. And the stronger Haki user to neg the DF abilities of weaker Haki users.

It’s Haki vs Haki, with ability priority being determined by superiority.

And just because there is a hierarchy of Haki “layers” when interacting with itself does not mean when Haki enhances a DF that the layering gets slapped on to whatever DF ability is being used.

That’s just not how layering works, nor how the Haki Layers are accepted on site to work.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Losing your mind is not all the quote mentioned though?

Relative situations.

Could you rephrase this? Are you asking why people get higher layers from Bluegrass? If so, it's because they're able to effect her with their Haki-infused ability while she's unable to resist.

Yes it does.Law overpowered Tashigi's Haki and spatial manipulation resistance with his own Haki, and Smoker's Haki which was shown and stated relative to Law's was able to resist the spatial manipulation.

Overpowering the resistance of someone's Haki with the Haki of your own means that your Haki has a greater resistance. This is accepted.

1. I know , the other stuff are for the soul manipulation, madness manipulation e.t.c
2. I don't doubt they can affect her . I believe it gives them resistance to her ability. But from there how does the layers increase? Are you saying simply because another person overpowers someone Haki and that person could previously overpower her ability with their Haki then the other person gets a layer? Coz that's not how layering works.
3. No overpowering someone's resistance grants you a layer of the ability and not resistance.

For example say I have spatial manipulation resistance via Haki and then someone overpowers that resistance and make spatial attacks harm me that person has 1layer of spatial manipulation or resistance negation one of the following. It doesn't grant that person layered resistance, just layered ability for overcoming my own resistance.

 

[Mickey1940]

Where does the notion "Precognition is better than Analytical Prediction" stem from? In the end both can see the future. No matter what the former sees, the latter can still predict how they'll act depending on the mechanics of the latter. and vice versa.

The Sharingan doesn't see the future. I don't know why people say this

The Sharingan allows you to detect things much more intensely than normal, to such an extent that you can read their muscle movements and make assumptions/predictions on what people are going to do. they can also use their enhanced sight to read hand signs and make assumptions on what the jutsu is going to be

This relies on prior knowledge and general knowledge of ninjutsu and hand signs in order to utilize to it's fullest ability.

This is NOT the same as Observation Haki, which gives you an actual mental video of exactly what's going to happen several seconds into the future with perfect clarity.

One relies on knowledge and prediction to make reasonable assumptions (Sharingan). The other is just cheating (Observation Haki).

 

[Mickey1940]

At the end of the day, the arguments for Sarada are:

Genjutsu + Chidori = Win


The arguments for Yamato are:

Natural durability + Ice Armor = Yamato breaks out of Genjutsu due to extreme pain from Chidori -> Yamato blitzes with Thunder Bagua = Win


The Sharingan doesn't allow Sarada to keep up with Yamato's speed since he has 2 blitz level speed buffs through both hybrid transformation plus Thunder Bagua. Sarada has pretty consistently struggled against characters faster than her despite the Sharingan, and she almost never uses Genjutsu against 99% of the enemies she's ever fought. She used it against Konohamaru in the Genin exam AFTEr getting bodied by him, she didn't use it against Buntan until after an extended fight, and she never used it against Deepa, Boro, the Fabrications, Ao, Chocho, or anyone else, even when she was in a crisis or about to die.

Saying "but they're resistant to genjutsu!" is a bad excuse cuz most of them are not, and saying "but Chidori gives a speed boost so she can keep up!" is also a bad argument cuz that's the speed for 1 attack. In order to get the speed again she needs to, well, use the attack again, which is risky, since Sarada needs prep/windup time and stamina to do, while Thunder Bagua does not.

 

[karo_senpaii]

At the end of the day, the arguments for Sarada are:

Genjutsu + Chidori = Win


The arguments for Yamato are:

Natural durability + Ice Armor = Yamato breaks out of Genjutsu due to extreme pain from Chidori -> Yamato blitzes with Thunder Bagua = Win


The Sharingan doesn't allow Sarada to keep up with Yamato's speed since he has 2 blitz level speed buffs through both hybrid transformation plus Thunder Bagua. Sarada has pretty consistently struggled against characters faster than her despite the Sharingan, and she almost never uses Genjutsu against 99% of the enemies she's ever fought. She used it against Konohamaru in the Genin exam AFTEr getting bodied by him, she didn't use it against Buntan until after an extended fight, and she never used it against Deepa, Boro, the Fabrications, Ao, Chocho, or anyone else, even when she was in a crisis or about to die.

Saying "but they're resistant to genjutsu!" is a bad excuse cuz most of them are not, and saying "but Chidori gives a speed boost so she can keep up!" is also a bad argument cuz that's the speed for 1 attack. In order to get the speed again she needs to, well, use the attack again, which is risky, since Sarada needs prep/windup time and stamina to do, while Thunder Bagua does not.

It's over bro. Grace ended a long time ago

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

It's over bro. Grace ended a long time ago

Shouldn't this have been closed already?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

How is this still going? Hasn't Sarada been declared the winner already?