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on the opposite, Garou has feats to show his growth, he has no multipliers on his profile (and even if he had, people will still not accept them)
but Saitama almost exactly the same thing, every day he trained (until he got bald)
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OPM Virtual Genocide Simulation upgrade and Multiplier
- Thread starter MrTayman616
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- one-punch man saitama
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- #42
Nothing can support he started to grow 2x everyday the moment he broke his limiter nor i'm saying something like "he started to grow 2x the moment he broke it".
It won't make him universal if this is added, so don't even know what's the argument of "he didn't destroy an universe".
Feat =/= Multiplier.
Graph is accepted because it is clear. but multipliers based on calculations or any kind of statement to support wouldn't be.
Not the same thing. His training isn't overcoming death.
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You are being argued against that point, so I assume it would make Saitama universal if it were to be accepted. However, even if it is only 2^60x, he still lacks feats to substantiate such a massive multiplier.
I'm sure the wiki has rules about multipliers like this, but I'm not the right person to ask about it.
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no, actually we don't have rules for multipliers this big
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I recall a rule saying that when multipliers reach a certain point they require feats to support them, otherwise they can only be considered as upscaling. However, I may have misremembered, and there might never have been such a rule, so I am not the best person to ask about this.
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- #46
It's clear Saitama didn't grow on a equal rate from the moment he broke his limiter based on what we saw from Garou.
It would only affect Saitama since they did VGS and beyond as that's the only time we know he grows that much.
Also feat, Garou has them enough, he grew all those levels in a single day, just not include the ones where he evolves via overcoming death and you have the result (more than hunderds of time in an extremely short time without overcoming death). We know Saitama's growth is faster that his.
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Like everything in OPM, it works on willpower, stronger willpower means faster growth
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So yeah I felt like elaborating on this
Saitama doesnt have alot of emotion to force him to grow on a daily basis is he?
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thats a character trait he has, he is depressed.
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Dude, we have a rule that the higher a multiplier, the higher the talents to support them, including cumulative multipliers.
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- Thread starter
- #51
This is beyond the limiter. Limiter is broken, you just grow regardless of what you do. You don't show the same level of willpower every second. (Like Child Emperor, he escapes from Phoenix Space via willpower, but he tried, he didn't instantly get out or anything.)
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this is just a blatanly false arguement
like maybe, just maybe, he just doesnt grow if there arent enough things to makes him excited?
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Willpower is not something you show, you show emotions, Saitama can show no emotion but still have more determination and willpower than the screamers from other series
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- #54
Wdym? It is true that you grow regardless of you do. Saitama was growing even before he fought Garou.
Might be on me as i might have explained it wrong.
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He had to be motivated before he could get out
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because he literally didnt? said character get stronger in a fight, and only showed in a fight
why would he just randomly became stronger for nothing?
like, maybe "x2 whenever saitama felt exited"
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Yeah, imo ludicrous multipliers should need direct feats or at least proper scaling to corroborate it. ( as in, if a character uses an amp that's stated to make them 10x stronger and faster and it doesn't at least make them stomp in a fight against an equal then it should be taken with a grain of salt.)
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- #58
Yeah, i mistook it there, wasn't what i was trying to tell though. (doing lessons while answering, show mercy
)Was it like that though? Saitama is in a state of constant growth which comes from breaking the limiter. It's more of emotion later no? (not saying willpower itself disappears)
...We literally have statements of it? Both VGS and stated to "he was continuing to grow" which went unnoticed because of the vast difference in strength. Breaking the limiter removes the cap on their growth, allowing them to continuously grow forever
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But 2x a day for all time isn't a given. As highlighted saying Saitama has a constant unending 2x or higher day to day stat increase snowballs widely out of proportion to his showings.
Also you have 3 Admins and a Mod agree that the multiplier doesn't work, so that part of the CRT has just been rejected.
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- #60
It's a wrong comparison here, no?
The graph itself is a statement. We know Saitama always grows here as well. It's stated one grow to the point he can one shot while the other one is stated to not. in both case, opponents are Saitama. We know one got one shotted while the other not. Other growth feats, Garou alone has them which we know has slower growth.
Feats are there, statements as well.
"But 2x a day for all time isn't a given. As highlighted saying Saitama has a constant unending 2x or higher day to day stat increase snowballs widely out of proportion to his showings."
Like how? He one shots himself of the yesterday but it is out of proportion of his showings? or Garou who has slower growth already showed higher feats(not based on overcoming death, but acceleration of him)
Also didn't they say "neutral" rather than saying they "disagree" with it?
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You can't be saying he got the same amount of growth on a daily basis compared to the growth he got from the garou fight right? You might hate me for this but a +0.1 point in strength counts as growing everyday too. Every assumption without further evidence is baseless
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- #62
...Are you just reading one word from each line?
I, not even once said that his daily life is comparable to their peak growth rate nor i mentioned Garou fight there.
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So basically this is just a random number you picked because it "feels" right?
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- #64
...Please read the entire thing from the beginning.
Stop making false statements about me like that or trying to make me look bad when your statements imply you didn't even bother to read anything i said in the first page.
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Strong emotions boost the growth, like the narrator said the strong emotions made the growth exponential. But willpower remains the key and mentality too, reason why a character like Mumen Rider did not reach Saitama's power, he just doesn't believe he can reach those levels and surrenders to himself, same reason Garou went back to his human form before God's pact, he surrendered to Saitama's strength when he began to believe he could not reach him. You need a mix of things to break the limiter, not only willpower, even if that is the most important one
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Because 2^365+ or 2^60 are boosts that have no numerical backing to them and blow the maximum threshold out of the water. What you're suggesting is to upgrade Saitama to 3-A.
Two said neutral and two said disagree. I misread the Same argument.
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- #67
No? Saitama doesn't get 2^60 or something like that to his current rating or anything? nor he gets upgraded to 3-A.
VGS Saitama is weaker than Saitama in Monster HQ arc. Why would the days in between would multiply his current AP(still doesn't reach 3-A, no?)?
He'd just get like 2^7 or something. (a week or two passed based on the statements after monster HQ arc.)
Graph itself supports it, Garou's martial art too. There are literal one shot(can one shot, can't one shot etc) statements in both Saitama vs Garou and VGS Saitama which.
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- #68
Saitama wouldn't get an 2x daily growth before his VGS version. The statement comes from it and would apply to later. But we don't have a value for his strength in VGS.
VGS Saitama is weaker than Saitama from Garou fight and it has his tier. Meaning VGS Saitama's growth causes him to be Saitama from Monster HQ.
It can't be applied to anything other than Saitama after HQ (or using it to divide to add tiers for weaker Saitama versions.)
VGS Saitama is weaker than Saitama from Garou fight and it has his tier. Meaning VGS Saitama's growth causes him to be Saitama from Monster HQ.
It can't be applied to anything other than Saitama after HQ (or using it to divide to add tiers for weaker Saitama versions.)
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His current rating is just his best visual demonstration. Your scaling has no reason to not retroactively apply, which is why i brought up 2^365.
He'd be 3-B within two days and would be 3-A in 80 days. If he grows at the rate you're suggesting (as in Garou or Saitama's rage amps), he'd be 3-A is roughly 9 days.
The scale is so massive and stacks so quickly that it breaks our rules. You'd need an in-universe statement and not scaling to get this level of an upgrade.
Just list me as disagreeing with it outright. Mentioning in AD as supporting evidence is fine.
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- #71
It is true that his current rating has the best visual demonstration (as probably most multiplier do in fiction)
Wdym? I never suggested it to be "his casual rate should be comparable to rage amps" or anything.
Mine is the same as this "He'd be 3-B within two days and would be 3-A in 80 days".
2x a day which is logical here supported by statements and not contradicted by anything as well (as far as i know)
It is massive considering day by day growth. Not sure if it breaks rules but yeah, i can see the scale of this multiplier.
But 2x is an in-universe statement. Saitama uses Garou's martial art where he doubles the attack power yet fails to one shot. The graph itself would be a statement in this case, it is canon and accepted, Garou himself states that Saitama is not one shot level stronger than him, while Saitama got one shot level stronger against VGS Saitama in a day.
Statements are clear here.
(One shotting yourself a day later is insane itself, why does it make the values unusable though, no matter what the value is, it will be too massive no matter what)
Okay (Do i need to add like agree: disagree:, i never did a crt like that so...)
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I will agree because this is hilarious
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- #74
That would only apply for like 20-30 days since VGS.
It'd only be applied retroactively to VGS moment at maximum since that's the time where we know Saitama grows that much in a day.
No reason to think the moment he broke his limiter his rate of growth was this fast, as Garou who broke it doesn't have it as fast as Saitama's.
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I think I'm fine with this being added to his Accelerated Development, but I don't think we can use it as an actual multiplier for the reasons everyone has already said.
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- #76
It doesn't affect Saitama's tier within Monster HQ. We don't know at what rate he was growing each day after he broke his limiter.
We only know that he grows enough to one shot himself each day within the time when VGS happened and after, it wouldn't affect anything before that since they can't be valued correctly. And even Garou who broke his limiter, wasn't growing as fast as Saitama, it was the day he broke it. supporting this argument.
At most it'd make 40 days since VGS(after Boros but before Gouketsu). Even going retroactively, His current value 5.6394e+63 / 2^40 = 5.12900442e51 which still suits his canonical strength within the entire series (him being strong enough to one shot the characters, suits it).
It should be acceptable here to use value 2x after VGS.
We only know that he grows enough to one shot himself each day within the time when VGS happened and after, it wouldn't affect anything before that since they can't be valued correctly. And even Garou who broke his limiter, wasn't growing as fast as Saitama, it was the day he broke it. supporting this argument.
At most it'd make 40 days since VGS(after Boros but before Gouketsu). Even going retroactively, His current value 5.6394e+63 / 2^40 = 5.12900442e51 which still suits his canonical strength within the entire series (him being strong enough to one shot the characters, suits it).
It should be acceptable here to use value 2x after VGS.
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- #77
Also that's not the only reason to not apply this value to his entire time of having no limiter.
Garou himself stated that his acceleration was getting faster over and over after all. It'd be the same for Saitama who broke his limiter. Even we could clearly see the difference in speed of his growth by his feats(Garou).
It is clear that 2x value can't be used for anything before VGS as that's the only time we know it's happening.
In the end, only after monster HQ arc Saitama would get affected.
Garou himself stated that his acceleration was getting faster over and over after all. It'd be the same for Saitama who broke his limiter. Even we could clearly see the difference in speed of his growth by his feats(Garou).
It is clear that 2x value can't be used for anything before VGS as that's the only time we know it's happening.
In the end, only after monster HQ arc Saitama would get affected.
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- #78
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That said, it still relies on an extremely large multiplier, which, as always, would require a specific statement to be accepted. For the sake of this thread, it would be better to focus on finding a middle ground.
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- #80
That's what makes this situation different. Because both situation are the same. Both situation is Saitama vs Saitama. Garou's copy is perfect.
The graph itself is a statement, canon and acceptable. both one shot statement from VGS and Garou fight is extremely clear. The graph should be acceptable here, for this.
What kind of middle ground would be suitable though? VGS statement was clear on the timing (a day), so is the difference between the two.
Does the situation has a middle ground?
The situation is clear and there isn't any inconsistency, and only applies to Saitama after monster HQ.
There are statements, consistency with feats and values etc.
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