OPM Virtual Genocide Simulation upgrade and Multiplier

[MrTayman616]

Here goes nothing...

VGS(Virtual Genocide Simulation) statement of Saitama was accepted but rejected later in this thread with these reasonings as far as i'm aware of:

Basically, we should remove the day by day thing from the audiobook. It's just the limitations of Genos' simulation, and Genos having any idea of Saitama's actual strength at that point completely contradicts the narrative of the series.

They explicitly say that it measures strength based on brainwaves rather than raw physical power, and it often gets many details wrong, so Saitama having different levels of power from the same equipment makes sense.

Also, noticeable increases in strength are presented as something that requires extreme emotion, which isn't something Saitama would be experiencing here.

The first one is wrong. Even after having his ghost in the simulation, or putting Saitama to a simulation or etc. Genos was pretty sure it was his full power in there and yet still believes he didn't comprehend Saitama's strength. Also Saitama continously grows in strength, it's not weird that Genos was capable of percieving a part of it since he's already beyond that and Genos simply can't proceed it.

Genos's simulation having a limitation for strength doesn't make sense as Saitama was able to one shot his yesterday self. It wouldn't happen if there was a limit to it as both Saitama would be equal because of being above the limit.

The second one is somewhat correct. The machine can't scan things like resurrection from death via willpower, but it is irrelevant to scanning physical strength, saying the machine can't understand someone becoming stronger after entering the simulation again. The abilities it cannot scan are extraordinary things based on willpower that defies common sense.

The machine was fine with Darkshine who's seemingly not aware how strong he is (just casually defeats every monster it faces, seemingly with one punch as it was the case for immensely weaker characters like TTM, and doesn't even know a way of hurting himself).

The third one is completely wrong and not based on real statements. He was still growing before the fight, just not exponentially but no such thing like "noticeable" or not. It went unnoticed because of the vast difference in strength.

This should be added to Saitama's Post Training Accelerated Development section (Saitama's strength increases drastically by the day).
---

We know that Garou can repel an attack with 2x power and that it's not a one shotter (Tank Top Master didn't get one shotted + Garou wouldn't use it if that were the case as he doesn't kill humans)

The Graph from Garou vs Saitama also shows 2x difference is not enough to do it. (The Graph is already accepted, also the raws mention the "growth line" which shows it to be correct as well since adding "line" doesn't make sense otherwise)

Garou was copying Saitama's stats as well, so the durability of the body is always the same as Saitama before he outgrows him again.

Saitama doubles his attack power here. (the first punch). Against Garou who's literally a version of himself of an instant before.

If VGS statement of Saitama were to be accepted, Saitama should get at least 2x stronger a day.

Edit: Some more argument about it in these comment

• Agree: @Qawsedf234 (Except for multiplier) @Reiner04 (Agrees for AD, Possibly for Multiplier) @ActuallySpaceMan42 (Except for Multiplier)
• Neutral:
• Disagree:

 

[Alexander]

i accept this
(also this will mean that Saitama will get 1,073,741,824 in a month)

 

[Kachon123]

Neutral on Saitama becoming 2x stronger daily, however I do agree with including the VGS statement to Saitama's Accelerated Development.

 

[MrTayman616]

Neutral on Saitama becoming 2x stronger daily, however I do agree with including the VGS statement to Saitama's Accelerated Development.

The situation is completely the same considering Garou is fully based on Saitama. And against a Serious Saitama that intends to win.

 

[Kachon123]

To apply a multiplier of this magnitude, an explicit number usually needs to be stated. That being said, a daily growth of over 2x somewhat aligns with how Saitama has been portrayed, which is why I remain neutral.

 

[Recon1511]

I have to remain neutral on the multiplier as well, just doesn't sit right with me.

I do agree with adding the VGS scaling to his profile though.

 

[Reiner04]

Neutral on Saitama becoming 2x stronger daily, however I do agree with including the VGS statement to Saitama's Accelerated Development.

Same.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I was thinking whether the fact that Saitama holds back an unquantifiable amount constantly could change the outcome

 

[Damage3245]

I think we need a more explicit statement on Saitama's power increase for a multiplier.

 

[Epiccheev]

Just say he grows strong enough to one-shot previous day Saitama and we gucci.

 

[MrTayman616]

I thought it was fine like that, SSJG got 160000x multiplier via being stronger than an hypothetical ssj3 vegito.

Saitama becoming one shot level stronger than himself in a day, while it is stated that he's not while being more than 2x stronger (Graph should count as a statement, Same with Garou's statement who observes his growth line there, Supported by the same martial art he uses there)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

SSJG got 160000x multiplier via being stronger than an hypothetical ssj3 vegito.

This comes from stacking already declared multipliers. Basically, someone becomes stronger than someone who can become x times stronger by stacking these multipliers.

Anyway, we have this on the multipliers page.

Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else. That means, for example, that if a verse has powerlevels or statistics, the doubling of a statistic or power level should not be concluded to correspond to the power of the character doubling, unless it is clearly specified to work that way.

However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted.

If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat.

 

[MrTayman616]

This comes from stacking already declared multipliers. Basically, someone becomes stronger than someone who can become x times stronger by stacking these multipliers.

I know, i also accept that it is logical, straightforward and fine to add as well.

The martial art and the graph itself should be count as statement here.(both are already accepted and in the profiles). Same with Garou's statement of Saitama not being capable of one shotting him.

 

[Kin201]

Bruh, if Saitama grows 2x stronger daily, then in just a few months he would be far above Universal level.


But yeah, I agree with just adding a note that he’s strong enough to one-shot himself from yesterday. No need to mention any multipliers.

 

[Alexander]

Bruh, if Saitama grows 2x stronger daily, then in just a few months he would be far above Universal level.


But yeah, I agree with just adding a note that he’s strong enough to one-shot himself from yesterday. No need to mention any multipliers.

I mean to be honest, he is already multi solar system level

 

[Arkansalter2]

Neutral on this one. This would just make him so unbelievably busted.

Just say he grows strong enough to one-shot previous day Saitama and we gucci.

Agreeing with this guy tho.

 

[K_o_Karlyn]

I mean to be honest, he is already multi solar system level

Not ttyna be a buzzkill, but uni level Saitama? Please be so fr.

 

[MrTayman616]

Neutral on this one. This would just make him so unbelievably busted.

Why is it a problem here? we do know he gets far more powerful each day to the point of one shotting himself. but when it gets a value that is already in the manga, it makes it questionable? (and the value is 2x, like the lowest value lmao)

Not ttyna be a buzzkill, but uni level Saitama? Please be so fr.

No. (at least if i remember the timeline of events correctly)

But yeah, I agree with just adding a note that he’s strong enough to one-shot himself from yesterday. No need to mention any multipliers.

Why though? the statements are clear. The values are already in the profiles, the graph and that martial art is accepted too. Garou who can see Saitama's growth line stated he couldn't one shot him at that level

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Bruh, if Saitama grows 2x stronger daily, then in just a few months he would be far above Universal level.


But yeah, I agree with just adding a note that he’s strong enough to one-shot himself from yesterday. No need to mention any multipliers.

Agree with this

 

[Raiden38]

I agree with the OP that the ×2 multiplier is the most suitable value at the moment based on what we are shown

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neutral on Saitama becoming 2x stronger daily, however I do agree with including the VGS statement to Saitama's Accelerated Development.

Same.

 

[MrTayman616]

Everyone's neutral(Not everyone but most) :d

...I'm not mentioning multiplier because it's a need for his daily growth statement, but because it is the case.

"The martial art and the graph itself are both statements that show being 2x stronger isn't enough to one shot. Stated by Garou that Saitama wasn't capable of one shotting him there. While Saitama has a statement of one shotting himself via growth"

Both the graph and martial art are already accepted to begin with. Garou himself states Saitama didn't grow enough to one shot him, There is LITERALLY a statement that says Saitama can't one shot him at that level. right after this page where he's 2x stronger than him and that he'd reach it at that rate. Same Garou who copies Saitama and fully based on his own stats.

Both fights are literally Saitama vs Saitama. one of them grows to the point of one shot while the other reaches it later.

 

[MrTayman616]

Same.

I think we need a more explicit statement on Saitama's power increase for a multiplier.

Same.

Everyone's neutral(Not everyone but most) :d

...I'm not mentioning multiplier because it's a need for his daily growth statement, but because it is the case.

"The martial art and the graph itself are both statements that show being 2x stronger isn't enough to one shot. Stated by Garou that Saitama wasn't capable of one shotting him there. While Saitama has a statement of one shotting himself via growth"

Both the graph and martial art are already accepted to begin with. Garou himself states Saitama didn't grow enough to one shot him, There is LITERALLY a statement that says Saitama can't one shot him at that level. right after this page where he's 2x stronger than him and that he'd reach it at that rate. Same Garou who copies Saitama and fully based on his own stats.

Both fights are literally Saitama vs Saitama. one of them grows to the point of one shot while the other reaches it later.

What do you guys think of this?

 

[Entity]

Where does this kind of growth starts for Saitama and will this affect his scaling?

 

[EnderLord8]

Everyone's neutral(Not everyone but most) :d

...I'm not mentioning multiplier because it's a need for his daily growth statement, but because it is the case.

"The martial art and the graph itself are both statements that show being 2x stronger isn't enough to one shot. Stated by Garou that Saitama wasn't capable of one shotting him there. While Saitama has a statement of one shotting himself via growth"

Both the graph and martial art are already accepted to begin with. Garou himself states Saitama didn't grow enough to one shot him, There is LITERALLY a statement that says Saitama can't one shot him at that level. right after this page where he's 2x stronger than him and that he'd reach it at that rate. Same Garou who copies Saitama and fully based on his own stats.

Both fights are literally Saitama vs Saitama. one of them grows to the point of one shot while the other reaches it later.

That makes sense... I suppose

 

[MrTayman616]

Where does this kind of growth starts for Saitama and will this affect his scaling?

Presumably a while after Saitama breaks his limiter(unknown). Wouldn't affect anything before VGS in my opinion.

Though his scaling for the monster arc and parallel timeline wouldn't change, So it would only affect after Monster arc i guess?

Same.

I think we need a more explicit statement on Saitama's power increase for a multiplier.

Same.

What do you guys think of this?

 

[Napoleondevious]

i agree seems fine

 

[Qawsedf234]

Same.

I agree with including it in his accelerated development, but not on an unstated hard multiplier. Saitama has been bald for an entire year by the time he meets Genos, which goijg by the OP would be a bare minimum 2^365 stat increase, which means whatever his base number was, it was then multiplied by 75 Quintrigintillion. Which isn't supported in any capacity and is far to massive to make.

Even with the VGA being like 60 days ago in-universe, that's an increase of 1.1 Quintillion. You'd need hard statements for numbers like that rule wise.

 

[Alexander]

I agree with including it in his accelerated development, but not on an unstated hard multiplier. Saitama has been bald for an entire year by the time he meets Genos, which goijg by the OP would be a bare minimum 2^365 stat increase, which means whatever his base number was, it was then multiplied by 75 Quintrigintillion. Which isn't supported in any capacity and is far to massive to make.

Even with the VGA being like 60 days ago in-universe, that's an increase of 1.1 Quintillion. You'd need hard statements for numbers like that rule wise.

man i know that even if we have a confirmed growth power, they will not give him those stats.

 

[Kin201]

man i know that even if we have a confirmed growth power, they will not give him those stats.

Yeah, at the end of the day, feats are what truly matter, not some nonsense multipliers.

 

[Alexander]

Yeah, at the end of the day, feats are what truly matter, not some nonsense multipliers.

then i feal that we should not have multipliers at all

 

[Pearly0nsams]

Everything makes sense. Agreed with 3-A Goatama.

 

[MrTayman616]

I agree with including it in his accelerated development, but not on an unstated hard multiplier. Saitama has been bald for an entire year by the time he meets Genos, which goijg by the OP would be a bare minimum 2^365 stat increase, which means whatever his base number was, it was then multiplied by 75 Quintrigintillion. Which isn't supported in any capacity and is far to massive to make.

It shouldn't affect anything before VGS in my opinion as there are many thing that changes the result. Garou who broke his limiter wasn't growing as fast as Saitama, Saitama was a normal human with no potential or anything before breaking his limiter, The only known difference is Garou breaking his limiter a year after Saitama.

The graph itself should count as a statement. It is clear, canon, supported by raws (the raws talk about his growth "line" which supports the accuracy of the graph). Also Garou's martial art there as an extra support.

Garou got to near moon level from town level within a day.

Yeah, at the end of the day, feats are what truly matter, not some nonsense multipliers.

It'd only be nonsense if someone is to believe Saitama started growing at least 2x a day from the moment his limiter was broken (seemingly not, based on what we observed from Garou).

The graph is accepted and very obvious, same for the martial art. Both fights are literally Saitama vs Saitama of the past.

 

[Qawsedf234]

It shouldn't affect anything before VGS in my opinion as there are many thing that changes the result

Why not? Hes had literally the same power set as soon as his limiter was broken. He was never challenged in any capacity until Gapur copied him, with every other fight being him holding back or messing around.

The graph itself should count as a statement.

The graph makes explicit mention of Saitama emotions working as a booster for his power boost. The graph would not apply retroactively as Saitama wouldn't have the same emotional enhancement.

So no, I disagree with a 2x multiplier. It snowballs massively and there's zero justification for it not to apply since his limiter broke in my mind. It can be used with his AD though.

 

[Alexander]

hey, what you bring up is actually a good point.
Garou in a day, grow from town level to Moon level, IN A DAY, and that is just by constantly and constantly breaking his own limits, and this growth is a quadrillion in growth, ONE QUATRILLION OF POWER GROWTH IN A DAY.
Saitama growing twice or more in a day is less ridiculous than this

 

[Damage3245]

hey, what you bring up is actually a good point.
Garou in a day, grow from town level to Moon level, IN A DAY, and that is just by constantly and constantly breaking his own limits, and this growth is a quadrillion in growth, ONE QUATRILLION OF POWER GROWTH IN A DAY.
Saitama growing twice or more in a day is less ridiculous than this

That's not a singular power increase from Garou though; that is multiple life-and-death battles and opponents faced each contributing to his growth.

 

[MrTayman616]

hey, what you bring up is actually a good point.
Garou in a day, grow from town level to Moon level, IN A DAY, and that is just by constantly and constantly breaking his own limits, and this growth is a quadrillion in growth, ONE QUATRILLION OF POWER GROWTH IN A DAY.
Saitama growing twice or more in a day is less ridiculous than this

Garou overcomes death which comes with explosive growth. It is a different situation that growing in a normal state.

The graph makes explicit mention of Saitama emotions working as a booster for his power boost. The graph would not apply retroactively as Saitama wouldn't have the same emotional enhancement.

The graph is to see the difference between Garou and Saitama. Not to say he grows similar to this graph. Which makes it usable here as we do know there is an 2x difference before Garou's statement.

Why not? Hes had literally the same power set as soon as his limiter was broken. He was never challenged in any capacity until Gapur copied him, with every other fight being him holding back or messing around.

Saitama always grows, even while holding back or not feeling anything. Having an comparable opponent just made it visible to us as now it was visible until it went beyond what Garou could observe. Not that Saitama started to grow because he was feeling something, it just made it exponential.

 

[Alexander]

That's not a singular power increase from Garou though; that is multiple life-and-death battles and opponents faced each contributing to his growth.

That's still pretty stupid you know, I mean Garou constantly being on the verge of dying and breaking his limits has his massive increase, but Saitama passively growing every day, at least twice in power...is unuasable and impossible to accept?

 

[Kin201]

hey, what you bring up is actually a good point.
Garou in a day, grow from town level to Moon level, IN A DAY, and that is just by constantly and constantly breaking his own limits, and this growth is a quadrillion in growth, ONE QUATRILLION OF POWER GROWTH IN A DAY.
Saitama growing twice or more in a day is less ridiculous than this

and Garou has visual feats to support his multipliers. Saitama didn't destroy any universe even when going all out.

 

[MrTayman616]

That's still pretty stupid you know, I mean Garou constantly being on the verge of dying and breaking his limits has his massive increase, but Saitama passively growing every day, at least twice in power...is unuasable and impossible to accept?

Not that it's unacceptable overall, it's unacceptable based on Garou's overcoming death style growth.