- 2,611
- 2,001
You're mixing Aca 1 with BDE1, because of BDE1 there just isn't a past Rimuru
I recommend reading other replies up there
No? No time has passed, it doesn't fulfill the SBA requirement for time
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Rimuru tempest (LN) VS Mori dan
- Thread starter Cloelolo_60021
- Start date
- Status
- 7,120
- 5,641
Yes we do. "Likely" values are considered true unless the thread specifies otherwise.
Except again, Moris immeasurable speed is a result of his sheer existence. He can't run out of stamina if he doesn't even need to do anything to keep up this level of speed.
To Mori being immeasurable speed is the same as being 3 dimensional for you. Him taking a nap wouldn't magically reduce him into a smaller being bound by time.
Wtf does that even mean?
Also this isn't a CRT so idk why are you even arguing against the profile. If you have an issue with it feel free to go to the general discussion thread for the verse where I can explain anything you want but this really isn't the place for it
- 2,611
- 2,001
Where is this stated?
- 7,120
- 5,641
I'm not, I was talking specifically about his acausality1.
Rimuru having or not having BDE doesn't affect Mori's speed. It doesn't grant Rimuru immeasurable speed and it doesn't reduce Mori's immeasurable speed.
You could at least link which specific reply you're talking about because I don't see any answering what I said.
No, time would still pass, just on a higher temporal dimension.
And even without it Rimuru would just be incapped forever so again Mori would just win via sheer speed.
SBA page states
Meaning likely and possibly have to be restricted to not count.
- 2,611
- 2,001
It restricts the actual usefulness of his speed, due to time travel things not doing anything anymore
So you're saying that any immeasursble speed character can win in SBA against, for examle, a 1B character? That's not how it works. Time needs to flow on the battleground, and time wouldn't be flowing in New York
Well, the OP is literally equal speed, so we can assume pretty much everything
- 7,120
- 5,641
It doesn't because the actual use of his speed is, yk, statuing Rimuru forever.
I mean, sure, but I can't really imagine a character that can blow up 12 dimensional hyperverses but still doesn't have immeasurable speed.
Yeah except Mori isn't in NY because this key of his has its true form in a completely different realm.
And time doesn't need to be specifically flowing in NY, that would give finite speed characters a random immunity to getting incapped. "Oh yeah I'm immobilized for all eternity but I definitely didn't lose"
Yes and M2u12 then said maybe unequalizing speed could make it more decisive to which I said it would just make it a speed stomp, which is why it's bad.
To be honest I'm flabbergasted this has even stretched out for this long. Most people agreed it's a mismatch 2 pages ago and no new arguments that would make it not a mismatch were made since. I feel like we're just running in circles here
- 2,611
- 2,001
Infinite does the same
Yogiri's first two keys
That's what the incon option is for. Like with AE, the character can't hurt someone with AE, but still won't lose, it's considered incon
Well there was a reason I said to look at messages up there. From the scans with justification for his immeasurable, I can only see him being immeasurable due to being able to choose a time where he moves to (project himself). However in this situation this is questionable due to 2 reasons: 1) wtf is even "time where a BDE1 charactet resides"? 2) inside these projections he is shown to not move at immeasureable, which I also guess is the reason his standart speed is still mentioned in this key
Last edited:
- 7,120
- 5,641
Infinite does the same to finite characters. Immeasurable treats infinite speed characters how infinite speed characters treat finite speed characters.
It's not an incon because Rimuru is actively incapped from Mori's perspective.
There would be a conclusive winner because one of them is stuck frozen forever and the other is free to do whatever they want.
No, I already debunked that misconception and you just ignored it.
Idk, you tell me. I don't know how can a BDE have any speed at all.
He never enters any projections so idk what do you mean by that.
No, that's actually super outdated. Technically it would be his speed before ascending to Nirvana but even then it was massively up scaling from 197.23 Octillion c, not 10 sextillion.
I'm planning to eventually remove it but given it's such a minor thing I decided to focus on more important stuff in the verse (since like most of the profiles are just unreadable mess)
- 2,611
- 2,001
This one you never did
Ummm..
- Time Travel, Avatar Creation & Multilocation (Like Xuanzang, he can project himself at dire points of time within the universe to assist its inhabitants<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mori_Dan#cite_note-spin4-59"><span>[</span>59<span>]</span></a>
He also mentions some things taking time which is questionable
- 7,120
- 5,641
I did like 50 times. Mori doesn't project himself into certain points of time he EXISTS BEYOND TIME ITSELF. To him spacetime of the verse is just a set of golden tablets. I even showed you the scans talking about it, you're just refusing to actually read it all.
I told you this and even showed you scans for it multiple times now. It's accepted on the profiles, I showed you the evidence here, and you are still choosing to ignore it for literally no reason.
Did you actually look at the scans? Him "projecting" is literally just him picking up a piece of spacetime and looking at it, with the people within it seeing only his silhouette (since lower dimensional beings can't percieve higher dimensional ones).
He doesn't physically enter the tablets, he just grabs them and his silhouette appears to people inside of that specific point in time and space. He can hypothetically create an avatar in certain points in time to guide people like Xuanzang did, but that has nothing to do with whether or not his true form is immeasurable or not.
What does this even mean? He percieves the entire spacetime of the verse as a bunch of tablets in a circle, do you do that as well?
Can you just do 2 steps forward to travel to a completely different point in time and space?
Because if so then that's not really Mori being "quite normal" but you being a 4 dimensional God lol.
Where?
- 7,120
- 5,641
I understand that you're clearly new to the wiki but multiple people have already told you that this is not a content revision thread. Meaning what's in the profiles is the official ratings that you have to follow, and if you want to change it you have to write a CRT.
So I really don't understand why are we still going over whether what's in the profile is true or not
So I really don't understand why are we still going over whether what's in the profile is true or not
- 7,343
- 5,524
Rules state that the slower character during speed-equalized match should not win by speed blitzing.
Also, for the Nonduality thing
Only confirmed dualities are granted from the verse, so if there is no duality for existence and nonexistence confirmed etc or such
He won't gain uninteractability. (it was changed this way 2 years ago iirc as anti-NLF)
- 7,120
- 5,641
Yeah we were discussing whether the match would be better without speed equalization. (and I was saying it wouldn't be)
Wouldn't that make almost every type 2 ND basically just a type 1 ND?
Either that does mean Mori is immune to anything bound by beginning and/or end since that duality is specifically mentioned in-universe (alongside yin and yang which could arguably mean a LOT on its own but idk)
- 1,369
- 778
I am seeing some insane Mori glaze. Mori imessurable needs to get nuked
- 1,292
- 407
I didn't think what I commented would have such a domino effect
Have you read the CRT that granted him immeasurable speed? If you don't want to read it, you can just do the simplest thing, go ask in the Goh General Discussion why Mori was given immeasurable speed.
Anyway this is a mismatch, It have no point to debate anymore, Can someone please close this thread?
Why is it glaze? and why does Mori immeasurable speed need to get nuked?
Have you read the CRT that granted him immeasurable speed? If you don't want to read it, you can just do the simplest thing, go ask in the Goh General Discussion why Mori was given immeasurable speed.
Anyway this is a mismatch, It have no point to debate anymore, Can someone please close this thread?
Last edited:
- 7,343
- 5,524
Yes. The beginning and end are rather vague, so it must be explained what it entails.
Yin and Yang as well is vague without explanation
Yeah, it's like that since it became notorious how people would literally argue things that don't exist in the franchise as something they have just because of ND type 2.
There was a CRT done to give it some general abilities that are obvious dualities, but even that was rejected.
- 2,611
- 2,001
Yes, he may exist beyond time (tho, that just sounds like BDE1), but the actual imme is physically moving through time, I've seen the scans multiple times, but never seen that part
The same chapter from where the scans are from and the next few?
Also, it's funny how we left the passives topic, without actually discussing it. I know that imme speed is NORMALLY considered faster than passives, but in tensura passives work against imme
Edit: Also, the silouette that they see is obviously not imme (because they see it) and Mori himself sees the time flow, so I don't know where the CONSTANT imme comes from
Last edited:
- 3,566
- 2,295
4 pages for something that should not even exist?
- 2,611
- 2,001
Don't ask me
- 7,120
- 5,641
No immeasurable speed is defined as being unbound by linear time not just by physically moving through time.
Mori is unbound by time and can travel across time and space like you can travel across your room.
I read the entire chapter like 20x and I don't remember anything like that could you actually show it to me?
Not according to the profiles. And we left all discussions because again, majority of people agreed this is a mismatch and then you started arguing against what's in the profiles for no reason other than your own lack of understanding.
That does not contradict immeasurable speed in the slightest. Mori actively choosing to interact with a certain point in time and space doesn't mean he's not immeasurable…
Mori sees literally EVERYTHING, he governs ALL OF CREATION, that is not an anti feat to immeasurable speed in the slightest. You should go read up on immeasurable speed because you clearly don't understand it.
- 2,611
- 2,001
As I remember, this does not necessarily have to be mentioned in the profile, as I've looked through many of those, even where people argue for this, and didn't see a single mention of this. The rules also don't specify this situation, as it's pretty much verse mechanics, not actual abilities, so I would go with cannonical feats
I agree that it doesn't contradict imme, I was saying that once he chooses a time to affect, he's not imme in that time, and due to that, in that time even a split second passes, and because of BDE1 he cannot choose this time over and over (which would make Rimueu a statue, yes). As I said before, I don't argue against imme, I say that in THIS situation, HIS imme doesn't work that well
- 7,120
- 5,641
If Rimurus profile doesn't give him immeasurable speed then he doesn't have immeasurable speed. If you don't agree with that go make a CRT but like I said 50x by now, this isn't the place to change that.
Not how immeasurable speed works. He doesn't "choose a time to affect" like it's some hax, he literally physically grabs that point in time and space as if it were just a picture.
Main point, he doesn't become bound by time just because he grabs it.
It won't, that's not how immeasurable speed works. Time can't pass because to Mori time is a stationary physical object.
No he doesn't need to "choose" that time. That time exists completely separate from Mori.
And I told you that's not how immeasurable speed nor Mori's physiology work. I have told you and even showed you that he can't stop being immeasurable because he's not just a 3D human moving through time but a 4D entity beyond time itself who percieves it as stationary physical objects. Linear time can't pass from Mori's perspective because he's not bound by it
- 2,611
- 2,001
I'm not saying that he is immeasurable, I say that his passives can affect immeasureable
Yes, and in that picture the time still flows, it isn't frozen
There you have it: in one part you say he grabs (and he is also shown to not grab more than one at a time), the other you say he doesn't choose, sounds like a contradiction, doesn't it?
Returning your argument: his page doesn't mention this as his physiology
- 7,120
- 5,641
Which doesn't matter unless the passive has immeasurable speed.
Time doesn't flow in the picture the picture IS time (and space)
It's not a contradiction you just don't understand what's happening. You think Mori has to actively pick 1 point in time to freeze Rimuru or something and I'm telling you he doesn't need to even acknowledge Rimuru's existence because the time exists regardless of whether Mori does something with it.
He doesn't NEED to choose a time to freeze Rimuru but he CAN choose a time to interact with. That is not a contradiction.
Yes because immeasurable speed is inherently a state of being unless it's specified as strictly combat/travel/whatever speed as everything you do is unbound by the linear time. Mori's case is even more extreme as he's not even within linear time, something which I have shown you
- 2,611
- 2,001
The passives affect imme speed characters, so guess what
And the people in the picturr aren't frozen, so what makes you think Rimuru would be?
Therefore, to interact with Rimuru he needs to choose a time
Oh well, i guess you already forgot this one (read everything)
Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1; Information Particles transcend Space and Time
- 14,996
- 10,461
isn’t it still incon with speed = because of rimurus resistance layers
- 2,611
- 2,001
The guy says, because for Mori time passes on a higher dimension, it's incap
- 14,996
- 10,461
If its true that nonduality only gives immunity to everything in the verse what stops Rimuru from using an ability mori is not immune to
- 2,611
- 2,001
We kinda already left this topic. Now we are discussing what happens if speed unequalized
- 7,120
- 5,641
Unless they themselves are listed as immeasurable speed on the profile I don't really care if you think they can tag immeasurable speed characters.
Yes they are, Mori choosing to interact with them doesn't make they're somehow moving. Having immeasurable speed doesn't mean you can't choose to interact with characters bound by time.
Just because Mori CAN choose show himself to people inside of time doesn't mean he HAS to. That is an assumption you're making for no reason. And we even see that time doesn't flow from Mori's perspective normally so not only is the assumption baseless but also contradicted.
He doesn't need to do anything. He doesn't need to interact with Rimuru because Rimuru is frozen forever. To Mori it's the equivalent of Rimuru being sealed away because he can't ever move, there is no reason to interact with him.
I didn't. Transcending space and time on its own doesn't grant anything (it could as much as make you outerversal and it could give you as little as basic teleportation) and Rimuru outright does not have immeasurable speed on his profile so that interpretation is officially not accepted.
- 2,611
- 2,001
My main question is you saying, because for Mori time passes (tho with you saying he is outside of it, i dunno about this statement), Rimuru is incapped. Still the question with, for example Yogiri, who doesn't have imme, you're saying he loses. I will now try to find someone knowledgeable enough to confirm that
- 2,611
- 2,001
I'm talking about SW, which was mentioned before. You simplified it to imme amp (it isn't really, but okay)
Cloelolo_60021
Username Only- 163
- 41
- Thread starter
- #154
Everyone, please focus on the rules — this thread is Equivalent Speed Only. Let’s keep the debate within that
Cloelolo_60021
Username Only- 163
- 41
- Thread starter
- #156
I don’t see how mori survive from Rimuru concept haxs
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 9,162
- 5,454
The problem was with Mori's ND2 stuff, but that kinda got weird.
If Rimuru can affect Mori, then that poses a bit of a problem, as Rimuru's CM1 layers are, according to this blog, 5 layers that are already accepted. Since i didn't know about layers at the start of the debate, and the whole wonky Non-Duality situation, I didn't know how it would go. Though again, if he can affect him, then unless Mori has 5 layers of resistances to CM1, he kinda just loses.
- 552
- 206
Mori should meet the criteria for his non duality showing immunity since its stated that those in nirvana cant interact fully with the rest of the universe
- 7,120
- 5,641
Yeah we reached that conclusion 2 pages ago. Either Rimuru can't get past Mori’s ND or he stomps.
There is no version where this isn't a stomp or an incon
Cloelolo_60021
Username Only- 163
- 41
- Thread starter
- #160
Didn’t we already settle that ND2 doesn’t grant Mori immunity, according to DT’s thread
- Status
Similar threads
