Rimuru tempest (LN) VS Mori dan

[DavidTPPM]

One thing that could give Mori a chance to win and prevent this match from being a complete stomp is removing "Speed is Equal", so he at least has a chance to react when he's about to get hit by a brainrot passive with 800,000,000,000,000,000 layers that one-shots him

No speed equalization means Rimuru essentially gets incapped just via sheer speed difference as to Mori, Rimuru won't be moving at all. It would be like having a multiverse picture hanging on a wall, technically it could kill you but it's never even going to move so you're safe.

So yeah like I said, this really is a mismatch.

 

[AlexSamDen]

One thing that could give Mori a chance to win and prevent this match from being a complete stomp is removing "Speed is Equal", so he at least has a chance to react when he's about to get hit by a brainrot passive with 800,000,000,000,000,000 layers that one-shots him

Well, and Rimuru can activate the verse's time stop, which might not do much to Mori (exept the power null), but wil give Immeasurable to Rimuru

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Well, and Rimuru can activate the verse's time stop, which might not do much to Mori (exept the power null), but wil give Immeasurable to Rimuru

Immeasurabie speed got nuked.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Immeasurabie speed got nuked.

It got nuked due to not working outside of SW, but the info particle immeasurable never got nuked

 

[AlexSamDen]

Also, just a question that I have for quite the time, how does Immeasuresble work against someone with Aca 1 and BDE1?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Also, just a question that I have for quite the time, how does Immeasuresble work against someone with Aca 1 and BDE1?

Aca 1 only stops Mori from turning episode 1 Rimuru into a Flint and Meal, but BDE1 is a good question.
I would assume it doesn't affect the interaction much since the difference between infinite and immeasurable speed is still the same and if it wasn't he'd have immeasurable speed himself

 

[AlexSamDen]

Aca 1 only stops Mori from turning episode 1 Rimuru into a Flint and Meal, but BDE1 is a good question.
I would assume it doesn't affect the interaction much since the difference between infinite and immeasurable speed is still the same and if it wasn't he'd have immeasurable speed himself

That actually changes the interaction, due to giving Rimuru the split instant to activate Suspeded world and get immeasureanle for himself, thus equalising the speed again

 

[DavidTPPM]

That actually changes the interaction, due to giving Rimuru the split instant to activate Suspeded world and get immeasureanle for himself, thus equalising the speed again

What? How does it give him a split instance to activate anything and why would it be long enough for him to analyze the situation and realize exactly what needs to be used?

 

[AlexSamDen]

What? How does it give him a split instance to activate anything and why would it be long enough for him to analyze the situation and realize exactly what needs to be used?

Parallel processing and mind accelerate by several hundred million times with analysis from Ciel kinda does the job. And SW activation is instant

 

[DavidTPPM]

Parallel processing and mind accelerate by several hundred million times with analysis from Ciel kinda does the job. And SW activation is instant

Okay but that's all more than infinitely slower than immeasurable speed. To Mori they and their entire history would all just be immobile pictures

 

[AlexSamDen]

Okay but that's all more than infinitely slower than immeasurable speed. To Mori they and their entire history would all just be immobile pictures

And didn't we get to the assumption that immeasureable is basically infinite in this situation. Also, it still first requires a thought (for infinite), and Mori's thought will be much slower than Rimuru's

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Aca 1 only stops Mori from turning episode 1 Rimuru into a Flint and Meal, but BDE1 is a good question.

Something that is worth noting is that attacking the past Rimuru doesn't work for another reason; in the verse, going back in time creates a new timeline with a new Rimuru. This means that the attack would not affect the Rimuru he is fighting, but a separate one. (So basically time abilities in the verse, doesn't affect the present, but instead affects a new timeline..)

 

[DavidTPPM]

And didn't we get to the assumption that immeasureable is basically infinite in this situation.

What?

Also, it still first requires a thought (for infinite), and Mori's thought will be much slower than Rimuru's

No it doesn't. Not for Mori, he's immeasurable in speed due to his state of being. He exists beyond spacetime itself and percieves/occupies 4 dimensions same way we do with 3. Meaning for him "tomorrow" for example wouldn't be a time that will eventually come but a place he can walk to.

So Mori wouldn't need to think fast enough to be immeasurable, he just is passively immeasurable.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Something that is worth noting is that attacking the past Rimuru doesn't work for another reason; in the verse, going back in time creates a new timeline with a new Rimuru. This means that the attack would not affect the Rimuru he is fighting, but a separate one. (So basically time abilities in the verse, doesn't affect the present, but instead affects a new timeline..)

Yeah I briefly read the profile and he's safe from time travel bs.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Yeah I briefly read the profile and he's safe from time travel bs.

And that's basically the only thing that separates it from infinite

 

[AlexSamDen]

What?

No it doesn't. Not for Mori, he's immeasurable in speed due to his state of being. He exists beyond spacetime itself and percieves/occupies 4 dimensions same way we do with 3. Meaning for him "tomorrow" for example wouldn't be a time that will eventually come but a place he can walk to.

So Mori wouldn't need to think fast enough to be immeasurable, he just is passively immeasurable.

As far as I've looked through scans from his profile, he isn't constantly thinking at immeasureable. Could you provide a scan that says so?

 

[DavidTPPM]

And that's basically the only thing that separates it from infinite

No, that's not how it works at all. Infinite speed allows you to go anywhere in zero time while immeasurable allows you to go anywhere and anywhen.

For Mori past present and future exist at the same time as a place he can move to while Rimuru is still bound to them.

As far as I've looked through scans from his profile, he isn't constantly thinking at immeasureable. Could you provide a scan that says so?

The scans are in the profile (the justification just needs some touching up). These golden tablets that surround him are the overlapping spacetime of the verse. He doesn't just think at immeasurable speed, he straight up exists at that level

 

[AlexSamDen]

No, that's not how it works at all. Infinite speed allows you to go anywhere in zero time while immeasurable allows you to go anywhere and anywhen.

And in this case the anywhen part is removed

For Mori past present and future exist at the same time as a place he can move to while Rimuru is still bound to them.

Saying this to a Aca 1 and BDE1 is funny

Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1; Information Particles transcend Space and Time,[38] and are unaffected by space and time in any way,[38] which extends to them being able to resist time stop)
Acausality (Type 1; Digital Lifeforms are not part of the space-time continuum, can easily move to any point in time[38] without being affected by space and time)

 

[AlexSamDen]

Actually, I'm sitting there and thinking: why tf do I argue about blitzing, when Multilayer barrier exists

 

[Rikimarox2]

If speed is unequalized, Rimuru would not be able to do anything, at all really. Regardless of whether he amps his perception by quintillion times, it would still be slower. But like that does not matter, as his amp would never come to fruition, nor would any other action Rimuru want to make.

If speed unequalized, Mori blitz to hell and back.

 

[AlexSamDen]

If speed is unequalized, Rimuru would not be able to do anything, at all really. Regardless of whether he amps his perception by quintillion times, it would still be slower. But like that does not matter, as his amp would never come to fruition, nor would any other action Rimuru want to make.

If speed unequalized, Mori blitz to hell and back.

Read my reply just above

 

[AlexSamDen]

Multilayered barrier really solves almost every problem for Rimuru

 

[Rikimarox2]

Care to explain what Multi-layered barrier does?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Care to explain what Multi-layered barrier does?

Basically a barrier consisting of many layers with different resistances, but that's not the neat part. The neat part is that every its layer, due to being a product of an Ultimate skill (and also due to not being affected by Unique skills), needs layered Law manip & CM1 to be penetrated. It's also constanly active

 

[DavidTPPM]

And in this case the anywhen part is removed

No it's not. Rimuru doesn't passively remove Mori's speed he's only resistant to Mori ******* with his past.

Saying this to a Aca 1 and BDE1 is funny

Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1; Information Particles transcend Space and Time,[38] and are unaffected by space and time in any way,[38] which extends to them being able to resist time stop)
Acausality (Type 1; Digital Lifeforms are not part of the space-time continuum, can easily move to any point in time[38] without being affected by space and time)

It's really not funny because he still doesn't have immeasurable speed making him a literal statue to imme characters.

Basically a barrier consisting of many layers with different resistances, but that's not the neat part. The neat part is that every its layer, due to being a product of an Ultimate skill (and also due to not being affected by Unique skills), needs layered Law manip & CM1 to be penetrated. It's also constanly active

Yeah that's irrelevant because him not having imme speed makes him essentially automatically incapped. Because again he's basically a statue and might as well not exist due to the speed difference.

 

[AlexSamDen]

No it's not. Rimuru doesn't passively remove Mori's speed he's only resistant to Mori ******* with his past.

And that's only leaves him with present (which can be simplified to infinite) and future, but I'm not so sure about the future, 'cause in this case he has that covered aswell

It's really not funny because he still doesn't have immeasurable speed making him a literal statue to imme characters.

Yeah that's irrelevant because him not having imme speed makes him essentially automatically incapped. Because again he's basically a statue and might as well not exist due to the speed difference.

It's not irrelevant, due to him being basically invincible to anything Mori does. While for Mori he's a statue, for him time flows normally, so he, let's assume, not really understanding what tf is going on, due to the last time that happened being time stop shenanigans, activates Suspended world and oops, Rimuru is now also Immeasureable

 

[Rikimarox2]

Basically a barrier consisting of many layers with different resistances, but that's not the neat part. The neat part is that every its layer, due to being a product of an Ultimate skill (and also due to not being affected by Unique skills), needs layered Law manip & CM1 to be penetrated. It's also constanly active

I asked this probably a million times to different users, but are the layers accepted? IIRC Mori's layers are accepted, and if Rimuru's layers are not accepted, this wouldn't really matter.

Also, I don’t understand where the idea comes from that Rimuru would ever be able to activate his immeasurable speed amp. With Mori being immeasurable speed, Rimuru wouldn’t ever get the chance to do anything, really. You're talking about 'time flowing normally for Rimuru,' but that implies Mori doesn't have immeasurable speed, as Rimuru as able to do an action, which is just, wrong.

Since Mori is immeasurable, then from his perspective, Rimuru is frozen in place, just a statue. If Rimuru does anything, that would imply that Mori isn’t truly immeasurable in comparison, which just... doesn’t hold up.

Basically; Rimuru will never activate the amp. Ever. Implying that Rimuru would do anything would imply that Mori isn't Immeasurable, which is, bleh.

Edit: Revised it since it was very messy.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Just gonna clear this up, Rimuru doesn't have a "multi-layered barrier, he has a multi-dimensional barrier. (Not gonna get into the lore behind it, since half that shit is not accepted yet.

Though I don't see how this is relevant against immneasuable speed.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I asked this probably a million times to different users, but are the layers accepted?

Yes, the Magic and Skills page for the verse

Also, I don’t understand where the idea comes from that Rimuru would ever be able to activate his immeasurable speed amp. With Mori being immeasurable speed, Rimuru wouldn’t ever get the chance to do anything, really. You're talking about 'time flowing normally for Rimuru,' but that implies Mori doesn't have immeasurable speed, as Rimuru as able to do an action, which is just, wrong.

Since Mori is immeasurable, then from his perspective, Rimuru is frozen in place, just a statue. If Rimuru does anything, that would imply that Mori isn’t truly immeasurable in comparison, which just... doesn’t hold up.

Basically; Rimuru will never activate the amp. Ever.

Edit: Revised it since it was very messy.

Then its just incon. However, Mori's stamina isn't infinite (it's said likely infinite, but 1) we don't usually take that, 2) it comes from him being non-physical, which doesn't always come with infinite stamina) so the moment he stops, he's dead

Plus, his immeasuresble is kind of sketchy, the scans show that he got immeasuresble due to being able to project himeself in any point of time, however, inside these projections he wasn't shown to be immeasureable

Another thing I forgot, he is a DLF, so:
Passive Enhanced Quantum Manipulation & Information Manipulation (Type 2)

And info is layered, due to it affecting US

 

[AlexSamDen]

Just gonna clear this up, Rimuru doesn't have a "multi-layered barrier, he has a multi-dimensional barrier. (Not gonna get into the lore behind it, since half that shit is not accepted yet.

Though I don't see how this is relevant against immneasuable speed.

The ability from pre-demon lord still exists

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yes, the Magic and Skills page for the verse

Was there a specific thread for the layers, or were they evaluated in the hax layers evaluation thread before it got closed? Because from what I heard, the layers weren't accepted. If they are, can you show me the thread?

However, Mori's stamina isn't infinite (it's said likely infinite, but 1) we don't usually take that,

Yes, we do??? You can use the likely rating however you want, and majority of the time, people use it. It's not like we're just gonna ignore it.

2) it comes from him being non-physical, which doesn't always come with infinite stamina) so the moment he stops, he's dead

???
Brother, this is a VSThread, not a CRT thread. If you disagree with his rating, you should probably just make a CRT for it. It is currently accepted that he has infinite speed, so, he'll go forever.

Plus, his immeasuresble is kind of sketchy, the scans show that he got immeasuresble due to being able to project himeself in any point of time, however, inside these projections he wasn't shown to be immeasureable

Again, make a CRT if you want to get it removed.

Another thing I forgot, he is a DLF, so:
Passive Enhanced Quantum Manipulation & Information Manipulation (Type 2)

And info is layered, due to it affecting US

Not sure if the layers are actually accepted or not, but iirc, Mori himself does have layers for his Info stuff. Though I might be wrong, a supporter can give more info on this.

Just gonna clear this up, Rimuru doesn't have a "multi-layered barrier, he has a multi-dimensional barrier. (Not gonna get into the lore behind it, since half that shit is not accepted yet.

Though I don't see how this is relevant against immneasuable speed.

Something something Mori wouldn't be able to bypass it even if he was immeasurable speed, which, idk if it works, depends on the layers and if it is a resistance.

Also, jesus, I'm arguing like hell for Mori as if I'm a main supporter or smth.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Was there a specific thread for the layers, or were they evaluated in the hax layers evaluation thread before it got closed? Because from what I heard, the layers weren't accepted. If they are, can you show me the thread?

They are explained here

Yes, we do??? You can use the likely rating however you want, and majority of the time, people use it. It's not like we're just gonna ignore it.

I don't see people using things like "2A, likely higher" or the similar situation with AP, so I don't know where you get that

???
Brother, this is a VSThread, not a CRT thread. If you disagree with his rating, you should probably just make a CRT for it. It is currently accepted that he has infinite speed, so, he'll go forever.

The accepted is superhuman, infinite isn't fully accepted. I was saying my argument as a basis for not going with "likely" option, due to not being sure it is definite

Again, make a CRT if you want to get it removed.

I'm not saying it isn't immeasureable, i'm saying that an immeasureable working like that will not be working in this case

Also, jesus, I'm arguing like hell for Mori as if I'm a main supporter or smth.

Then don't

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

The ability from pre-demon lord still exists

Why are you using Pre-Demon Lord key abilities in this debate, legit all of those abilities have evolved...

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Was there a specific thread for the layers, or were they evaluated in the hax layers evaluation thread before it got closed? Because from what I heard, the layers weren't accepted. If they are, can you show me the thread?

Yes, they were accepted. I will have a hard time, though, finding if it was in a separate thread or the evaluation thread, but most of the stuff can be found here with the sources below

 

[AlexSamDen]

Why are you using Pre-Demon Lord key abilities in this debate, legit all of those abilities have evolved...

Just saying he can still use this

 

[Rikimarox2]

They are explained herehttps://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mizuki67/Layered_Hax_for_Tensura

Just checked it, seems pretty good then. Not sure how many layers GoH though, so idk if they are able to bypass those.

I don't see people using things like "2A, likely higher" or the similar situation with AP, so I don't know where you get that

"Likely higher" is different from "Likely Infinite". The former implies there could be a higher rating, but we have no definitive value or anything to use, so it's just there. Though there are cases where the higher could have a value attached to it, like "8-C [2 Tons], likely Higher [5 Tons]", such as with calculations. However, for the Infinite rating, we have a definitive rating to go off of, and unlike the higher rating, where we usually don't, we can use the Infinite rating here easily. Like, It's as if you're implying we can just neglect the likely simply due to it being likely, which would affect a lot of profiles.

To simply, one is an unknown value majority of the time, the other isn't.

The accepted is superhuman, infinite isn't fully accepted. I was saying my argument as a basis for not going with "likely" option, due to not being sure it is definite

That depends on the OP itself if they want to use the infinite rating, and since it is SBA, we would assume Infinite rating is used. Besides, Infinite IS accepted, it's just that the evidence for it is a bit less compared to Superhuman. However, they can be used. For example, haven't you seen profiles with say, "5-B, likely 4-B" ratings before? One can use the 5-B, or the 4-B rating, and if SBA is assumed, then the 4-B rating would be used. This is just an example, though.

I'm not saying it isn't immeasureable, i'm saying that an immeasureable working like that will not be working in this case

That, idk, tbh.

Then don't

Nah, I'm a bit interested in this match. Besides, I wanna know how Rimuru works so I can make a match with another character. Besides, debating is fun.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Just saying he can still use this

I don't understand why he would use it, when the other option is the evolved version of it, which is better in every way...

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Nah, I'm a bit interested in this match. Besides, I wanna know how Rimuru works so I can make a match with another character. Besides, debating is fun.

The biggest issue you will find is his RE.

 

[DavidTPPM]

And that's only leaves him with present (which can be simplified to infinite) and future, but I'm not so sure about the future, 'cause in this case he has that covered aswell

Again this is not how it works. Just because present Rimuru won't die if Mori kills past Rimuru doesn't mean immeasurable speed magically stops being immeasurable.

It's not irrelevant, due to him being basically invincible to anything Mori does. While for Mori he's a statue, for him time flows normally, so he, let's assume, not really understanding what tf is going on, due to the last time that happened being time stop shenanigans, activates Suspended world and oops, Rimuru is now also Immeasureable

Except from Mori's perspective that literally won't ever happen. Without speed equalization Rimuru will for Mori be frozen forever because to him no time will pass.

Which would fulfill the incap win con in SBA

 

[AlexSamDen]

That depends on the OP itself if they want to use the infinite rating, and since it is SBA, we would assume Infinite rating is used. Besides, Infinite IS accepted, it's just that the evidence for it is a bit less compared to Superhuman. However, they can be used. For example, haven't you seen profiles with say, "5-B, likely 4-B" ratings before? One can use the 5-B, or the 4-B rating, and if SBA is assumed, then the 4-B rating would be used. This is just an example, though

SBA says that the strongest versions (or the latest, if multiple) should be used, however it defines strongest as the one eith the highest tier, so the superhuman/infinite stamina choice isn't included. And that's a major thing

That, idk, tbh.

Well and that's Mori's only wincon.
The reasons I think this won't work are 1) choosing a time where a BDE1 character resides, sounds strange don't you think?, 2) When in those times, he is shown to not be immeasurable, after all, this might be the reason why his standart speed is still present in this key
So these might affect things greatly