Pokémon Physiology: The Finalist's Finalest Final Reckoning

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

BTW, as what this'd fall as? Asking because technically this'd apply to all Pokemon:

That would be Blessed.

 

[Imaginym]

BTW, as what this'd fall as? Asking because technically this'd apply to all Pokemon:

I wonder if this could be interpreted as reference to the power of the plates being shared among all Pokemon?
That lore wasn't introduced in PL:A, right?

The Plates are from Arceus, some would say innate to it, so it could be a vague/flowery/metaphorical way of referring to Arceus's power (the plates) guiding Pokemon to have the type-based powers they do, which protects them?
Not much to go off of, though.

 

[Bobsican]

I wonder if this could be interpreted as reference to the power of the plates being shared among all Pokemon?
That lore wasn't introduced in PL:A, right?

What I quoted comes from PLA, yes, but that Plate bit originates from Platinum (aka, Gen 4).

"The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon."

The Plates are from Arceus, some would say innate to it, so it could be a vague/flowery/metaphorical way of referring to Arceus's power (the plates) guiding Pokemon to have the type-based powers they do, which protects them?
Not much to go off of, though.

Because of the above, I don't think the Plates are the focus here, going by general portrayals of Arceus in terms of involvement, especially in terms of guiding around and protecting, I'd be led to believe this'd fall as a limited sort of Type 8 Immortality (High-Godly), as nothing in the series is ever shown as killed at a Mid-Godly level or higher, and when they have they're revived by the llama:

• In the Sky-only Special Episode In the Future of Darkness, after the final battle between Primal Dialga and the trio of Grovyle, Dusknoir and Celebi, all of them start to disappear due to the past finally being changed by the player, but are saved by an implied higher being than Dialga, who also restores Dialga to its normal state.

Which makes sense, especially given an afterlife is heavily implied to exist in the series.

 

[Imaginym]

Because of the above, I don't think the Plates are the focus here, going by general portrayals of Arceus in terms of involvement, especially in terms of guiding around and protecting, I'd be led to believe this'd fall as a limited sort of Type 8 Immortality (High-Godly), as nothing in the series is ever shown as killed at a Mid-Godly level or higher, and when they have they're revived by the llama:

Eh, assuming that for all Pokemon seems strange.

Which makes sense, especially given an afterlife is heavily implied to exist in the series.

Especially when the evidence is assuming Laventon's PL:A quote is based on the events of a spin-off game.
Not to mention, that seems more voluntary than passive. The Mystery Dungeon protagonist saved a whole timeline & whatnot, right? Presumably, it was rewarded for that.

So I don't think the quote from Laventon should be assumed to mean Arceus passively gives Type 8 to all Pokemon, especially as there have many Pokemon that canonically died without being revived.

 

[Bobsican]

I meant in cases for when a soul and higher dies, as it seems implicit that a soul is required to even reach an afterlife in the setting.

Mystery Dungeon is a part of the cosmology out of Masters referencing it.



In any case, basically all shown cases of Arceus getting involved seem voluntary done, rather than passive, unless you recall some feat to imply otherwise, the closest in that direction are general objects blessed by Arceus, but that wouldn't really fit the definition here as not all Pokemon constantly go around with those.

 

[Imaginym]

I meant in cases for when a soul and higher dies, as it seems implicit that a soul is required to even reach an afterlife in the setting.

So it'd be a Type 8 that's applied when it's not just a regular death, but the soul's death as well?

 

[Bobsican]

I'd think so, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

@Starter_Pack @GyroNutz @SamanPatou @LordTracer @Elizhaa @Colonel_Krukov @Firestorm808 @FinePoint @Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

 

[Lou_change]

No they shouldn't, as said rules are only applied cuz that is how Fate and the future works, not cause of something iherent of them, but because this is how their reality functions

I mean why would we bind them to different rules of fate

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

No they shouldn't, as said rules are only applied cuz that is how Fate and the future works, not cause of something iherent of them, but because this is how their reality functions

Pokemon inherently get their powers from Plates, that doesn't mean they become powerless when they're not within the verse.

1 two wrongs don't make a right

2 i don't really care about what other series are doing, it would be better to just explain the logic "why?" Instead

Let's say a Dragon Quest character gets sent into Final Fantasy. This character won't just suddenly gain his Final Fantasy-equivalent level, Class, and spells now that he's in a universe with different rules.

said resistance being exclusive physical-damage-on their bodies based, aka AP based, so not equivalent

Dude, we have people on this site that are so immune to certain hax that they actually heal from them, and even they are treated in a way that a strong enough hit from that hax can kill them. This isn't even an immunity to begin with.

so they resist the Death Manip part of it? Like... they are still affect clearly by the fear, hence why they get horrendlessly terrified, if a resistance is even suppose to be here it would only be a "minor" one imo

Getting hit by an extremely OP hax that you are not immune to is going to hurt. That doesn't mean you cannot resist it's full effects.

As said by other people before. This machine clearly worked before, so it not working here where he just so happens to face a trainer and a pokemon, which he talks about both at the same to theorize, i would say it is a trainer + pokemon combo thing

ALL of the times he has tested it was against a Pokemon with a Trainer because Pasio is a place with no wild Pokemon and all Trainer battles.

doesn't matter, Japan is the original language/source material, it takes precedence over the translation or secondary material

Then why aren't the Unowns in Kanji?

Hitting a preasure point does hurt more, yes, still not inherently boosting the damage via special hax tho

It doesn't do double damage.

So include it in all trainer pages instead? More accurate = better


... prove this? Also... the pokemon have power bestowal to give the trainers this ability or something?

You don't need Power Bestowal to just gain a shared ability.

... again, how can that simply not be on the Pokeball works? Pressing the button clearly isn't a nescesity by the links you showed

Trainers need to press the button every time.

 

[Omegabronic]

Pokemon inherently get their powers from Plates, that doesn't mean they become powerless when they're not within the verse.

Not the same thing, the plates already gave them the moves, it is already part of them


... Future stuff is something that governs them cause this is how time works there... which is not something inherent to them, people can't see the exact future in general in Pokemon cuz future itself is not set in verse, which is not cuz of pokemon or anything that they have

Let's say a Dragon Quest character gets sent into Final Fantasy. This character won't just suddenly gain his Final Fantasy-equivalent level, Class, and spells now that he's in a universe with different rules.

equipment and inheretly abilities that belong to characters doesn't even begin to correlate here, not the same thing, that's the point

Dude, we have people on this site that are so immune to certain hax that they actually heal from them

Whataboutism, doesn't even relate to the fact that this is a AP based resistance, aka, if the AP is strong enough, it simply will defeat any oponent if they are strong enough... or do you thing a Magnemite can survive a Judment Normal from Arceus just because "he resists it"?

And even they are treated in a way that a strong enough hit from that hax can kill them. This isn't even an immunity to begin with.

Two wrongs don't make a right

Getting hit by an extremely OP hax that you are not immune to is going to hurt.

Not if you resist said hax... it will simply kot affect you, that's how resistances work... if it still affects you, but less, then it is limited resistance

That doesn't mean you cannot resist it's full effects.

That's the point... they are NOT resisting it's full effects, Meowth is still crippled with fear everytime he saw Mimikyu's true face, he is still affected by the fear manip

ALL of the times he has tested it was against a Pokemon with a Trainer because Pasio is a place with no wild Pokemon and all Trainer battles.

Prove this? Thorton is from Sinoh, where there are pretty much wild Pokemon, also he says so himself he had "many" battles like that, not "all", aka he implies himaelf that the machine DID work... honestly lookong at it, seems like a specific resistance to some pokemon and trainers and not all of them

Then why aren't the Unowns in Kanji?

Cause they an ancient language used in universe in pokemon by ancient people?

I dunno why the unknown's lore matter here? That doesm't change the fact that the original language has priority over a simple translation/adaptation of it

It doesn't do double damage.

Any statement of it being "double damage" in verse? Also... it does hurt a lot more, heck, in some causes it can juat win you the fight

You don't need Power Bestowal to just gain a shared ability.

you do if you don't have said ability, you are arguing being around pokemon gives them the ability... aka you are arguing for power bestowal

Trainers need to press the button every time.

Statement of that being a nescesity when you yourself has shown clips proving otherwise?

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

The above should probably be addressed before moving forward as things currently are.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the current conclusions in this thread?

 

[Bobsican]

What are the current conclusions in this thread?

Not many, several things have been brought up that the OP is yet to add/address. I did contact Sean off-site and he has told me to be prioritizing this CRT at the moment, so it may be ideal to close this CRT for now.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the current conclusions in this thread?

Not many, several things have been brought up that the OP is yet to add/address. I did contact Sean off-site and he has told me to be prioritizing this CRT at the moment, so it may be ideal to close this CRT for now.

@Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera

What do you think about this?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I really don't feel like removing abilities because someone is deliberately misunderstanding my arguments and dodging my answers.

 

[Bobsican]

I really don't feel like removing abilities because someone is deliberately misunderstanding my arguments and dodging my answers.

You may want to be more specific so this can move forward (aka, so others can more easily comment on the matters in question as well).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So this thread should not be closed then?

In that case, if somebody writes a good explanation post for what currently needs to be evaluated here, I can send pings to some staff members who are knowledgeable about Pokémon.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Yeah, that might be good.

 

[Antvasima]

Somebody needs to write an explanation post first.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So this thread should not be closed then?

In that case, if somebody writes a good explanation post for what currently needs to be evaluated here, I can send pings to some staff members who are knowledgeable about Pokémon.

Somebody needs to write an explanation post first.

Anybody?

 

[Imaginym]

Anybody?

It may be good to alert @Bobsican , given their recent activity in the debate. I haven't 100% kept up with this topic.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, there's still stuff yet to be addressed by Sean to begin with, so we can't really move onto mods evaluating all the stuff as that's in-progress already out of that, unless I'm allowed to just take over the proposed blog and make another thread at that point.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Well, there's still stuff yet to be addressed by Sean to begin with, so we can't really move onto mods evaluating all the stuff as that's in-progress already out of that, unless I'm allowed to just take over the proposed blog and make another thread at that point.

It’s really just the one guy’s comment, and not exactly much of it is usable.

 

[Bobsican]

More specifically you're yet to reply to this, but yeah.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

More specifically you're yet to reply to this, but yeah.

How much of that do you honestly agree with?

 

[Bobsican]

Well, that has been a back-and-forth four times in a row, so that's a bit hard to evaluate.

The resistance to Precognition should be fine given precedents on cosmological semantics still carrying over for this kind of stuff, I'd also agree on the stuff involving resisting the effects of seeing Mimikyu naked, even if it's a minor resist.

Critical hits being Pressure Points is fine per the language priority, Unown being uniform in design over being translated to the lexicon of several languages comes off as a simpler design choice (given that just for the Latin alphabet has demanded 26 (28 since Gen 3 with the addition of Unown ? and Unown !) front and back sprites), especially as in its debut generations it was designed so the forme directly correlated to the type of its signature move Hidden Power, the series at the time also wanted to favor more the western market regardless, but given this is all mere character designs, this point is quite weak regardless.

I'd also agree on the feats involved for Information Analysis being inappropiate here as they aren't an attribute any Pokemon whatsoever has the potential to have, namely given the implicitness of that relying on the support of a competent trainer as well as brought up earlier.

Beyond that, the rest seems fine. In my case I'm still waiting for Sean to comment or add on the stuff I and others brought up for the page (this, this, this, and this).

Oh yeah, there's also this yet to address from a mod, unless you'd want me to comment on the opinions there as well.

Also, regarding Magic, it should also bring up that Pokemon were previously known in-universe as "magical creatures".

Of course there's also the other things I've sent Sean by DM, so I'd like to be notified when those things are added too (namely universal IQ Skills).

 

[Antvasima]

If somebody writes a good explanation post for what currently needs to be evaluated here, I can send pings to some staff members who are knowledgeable about Pokémon.

Somebody needs to write an explanation post first.

So about this...

 

[Bobsican]

Honestly this seems currently more of a work in progress than something that can be directly evaluated, especially if your intent is to then conclude this thread afterwards, @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera should catch up with the concerns/additions brought up first.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Alright, since people clearly want nothing to do with my other CRTs, I'm now going to focus 100% on this.

I have revised my Pokemon Physiology page further based on suggestions; what is there further that I need to address?

 

[Jinx666]

Idk about any of this and i wont bother, but all im gonna say is you should change the main image to an official image from Pokemon rather than using uncredited fanart depicting only a small selection of Pokemon

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Idk about any of this and i wont bother, but all im gonna say is you should change the main image to an official image from Pokemon rather than using uncredited fanart depicting only a small selection of Pokemon

That actually is official art.

 

[Lou_change]

Bulbapedia says it's a promotional image and doing a reverse image search also supports the claim.

Could we get more context on the superhuman precision?

 

[Omegabronic]

I still stand by what i contested earlier

 

[Jinx666]

That actually is official art.

Fair enough then, but still a pretty unfitting image to depict just a bunch of pseudos for overall Pokemon physiology

 

[Lou_change]

So this is the full scene about fate manipulation and precognition resistance and it really just sounds like Olympia is talking about how fate isn't preordained or certain. Especially given the other things she talks about like the actions of individuals can significantly alter their future.

Also it doesn't say that bonds are the greatest thing affecting the future Olympia say this
"Indeed, the future is not fixed—it can change, and it can be changed too.""Its course can diverge based on one's choices made and effort exerted.""But the future is shaped by something greater still...""Yes... I speak of bonds.""People, Pokémon... Your encounters with them are what shape your future.""The stars alone did not lead you here—the bonds you've formed played their part, too."

It's not the greatest thing it is just greater than the choices of individuals. Likely because bonds usually involve multiple individuals making choices and individuals making choices based on their bonds. Also this was in the context of Sabrina trying to figure out what her future would be like if she tried pursuing acting she was basically saying her future is up to her and those around her. That's just how cause and effect works.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright, since people clearly want nothing to do with my other CRTs, I'm now going to focus 100% on this.

I have revised my Pokemon Physiology page further based on suggestions; what is there further that I need to address?

@Starter_Pack @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @LordTracer

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's wait a while. If I have to, I can ping other staff members instead.