Pokémon Physiology: The Finalist's Finalest Final Reckoning

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I mean, chronologically speaking Gen 1 happens at the same time as Gen 3, so that's not an issue in itself, I could also go over the whole multiverse deal allowing cross-universe scaling/relationships of sorts already as settled in the canon un-split thread regardless.

It doesn't really matter in order for the profile to be accepted, as long as Pokemon are simply Resistant instead of immune to Sealing.

 

[Bobsican]

Huh. I was not aware of those formats. If I find a significant feat from a weaker species, I'll add it.

You can start with this

Oh, then yeah, there should be a clarification that it is for their attack power.

Should also bring up the capability for a Pokemon to amplify their own stats if they eat an attack that is of the same type as them.

That IS the scene that implies so. That is true about Pokemon Shuffle, but it's one of the most straightforward examples of them having Rage Power.

Yeah, but using stuff that is pushing canon even after the unsplit wouldn't be recommended.

There's a lot more examples than Conquest.

Oh, neat.

So you don't like the Poison Gas example?

Basically, yeah.

Why would Shiny Pokemon be better?

Because of this stated deal making breeding have a purpose leaning that as well over just in-game stats, it's even brought up in-universe.

I don't know how that would make sense to add on a physiology page.

TBH that'd fall more as a separate verse-specific P&A, which I'm currently working on, but it'll take me months as there's thousands of moves just in the core series.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

@Starter_Pack @GyroNutz @LordTracer @SamanPatou @Elizhaa @Colonel_Krukov @Firestorm808 @FinePoint @Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think about this?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Thank you, ‘vasima.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

What, exactly, needs to happen now before it can be uploaded onto the main site?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, me alone accepting this does not seem sufficient, so let's hope that some of the staff members who I pinged above, who are interested in Pokémon, will respond here.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

Also, Magic and Resurrection should be added as it's stated that the tears of Pokemon are magical and are why Ash revived in the first movie.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Bump.

Also, Magic and Resurrection should be added as it's stated that the tears of Pokemon are magical and are why Ash revived in the first movie.

Holy shit! A second source! That was actually on the page before but others recommended I remove it! With that second source I can put it back, thank you!

 

[Imaginym]

Bump.

Also, Magic and Resurrection should be added as it's stated that the tears of Pokemon are magical and are why Ash revived in the first movie.

Holy shit! A second source! That was actually on the page before but others recommended I remove it! With that second source I can put it back, thank you!

Original language dialogue check?

I do think it's a little questionable to use a YT upload on a localized language version channel for sourcing, but in this case, the claim was already a strong enough possibility that I think it's reasonable to use this as evidence. An official channel is pretty good, IMHO.

 

[Bobsican]

Oh yeah, before I forget, would Light Manip be worth mentioning as that's specifically a trait of shiny Pokémon? Of course that'd only apply to such variants.

 

[Armorchompy]

A few thoughts, in additions to what others have said:

Some of the sources used here are questionable. Very old and/or niche products made before the series' lore solidified or by american 2nd parties, commercials, untranslated website links...

• The "human transformed into a Pokémon" bit isn't pertinent to the physiology page, given it's only about a few exceptional cases. The "working together increases power statements" are also not something I'd take literally, it's just "they're way more effective together than when alone", not "they literally hit harder". Well it might be for the TCG ad, I dunno if there's mechanics backing that, but I wouldn't use a TCG ad as canon material to begin with.
  • I wouldn't list the Fusionism thing as that, rather Energy Manipulation. The current wording is also a bit awkward, I'd just do something like "Allied Pokémon can join together energy attacks into a single more powerful beam".
• Critical hits aren't Damage Boost, as you outlined they're pressure point strikes (or more generally attacks that land in particularly effective ways, I suppose). They deal more damage in the same way that a punch to the chin is going to hurt more than a punch to the shoulder.
  • It's also generally untrue that Pokémon moves are so much stronger than their physicals, plenty of battles in the anime are pretty prolonged slugfests between equal foes without either one-shotting the other, which doesn't make sense with this interpretation.
  • STAB being Damage Boost is fine.
• I disagree with Adaptation. Regional forms are just actual evolution, a drastic version of it but not really something the individual can do (I suppose Limited? Also the Archive pages don't load).
  • As for Evolution... I just don't think that (very old) manga page is right, Pokémon evolution is nothing like the real sort, it's a straight power boost rather than adapting to specific circumstances (outside of a few instances I suppose) and it's not genetic, given the Pokémon's children will be the base form.
  • Eating all that humans can just isn't a power, it's just being omnivorous.
• The "People who train Pokémon will get smarter" is a kids' PSA, obviously not canon (and even if it was, it's not actually saying that he's getting smarter at any unnatural rate). The other link in the same line is untranslated.
• For the Rage Power bit I'd list it as Empowerment and also list the various in-game affection bonuses, given they're all based on the same "Pokémon can draw more power when they're powered by a strong emotion" notion.
• You didn't list a reference for the Magic scan.
• Toon Force/Elasticity: Ability's fine but get rid of the commercial.
• The Regeneration is blatantly wrong. The "come back from bones" bit is a folk tale, a very unreliable source, and the other link is reading too far into an exploit of game mechanics (from what I can understand the character is being turned into an item and then the item is being destroyed by lava?). Not very strong evidence, especially when you consider that Pokémon have died in the canon from less than that (Fossils inherently require a Pokémon to die with their body mostly intact).
• Automatic Translation comes from... a children's educational book written in the year 2000. Come on man. I don't doubt there's actual scans of this, Meowth pretty obviously speaks with other Pokémon, but don't use this one.
  • I also wouldn't really list the "trainers can sense what their Pokémon want" as an inherent ability of the Pokémon, they're just growing close enough that they know their friend very well, and can glean their thoughts and feelings from body language and vocalizations. Ash even says he can't understand the Hawlucha's speech.
• Resurrection & Empathic Manipulation is not really that, the Scyther in the scan isn't dead, just harmed beyond conventional healing. I guess it's like, Supernatural Willpower and Healing. Willpower being "the energy to act"... no shit, you're not gonna do anything if you lack the will to do it.
• Resistances:
• Sense Manipulation I'd put a possibly next to. It doesn't have any harmful effects, it just means you can't taste. Nothing really says the Pokémon is tasting something that you make it eat afterwards. I get the logic, though, given that 'mons will still react to different berries depending on taste. I would also say it's "limited" Sense Manip, given that this is just something being very bitter, not a supernatural power that makes you blind or whatever.
• Poison Manipulation is fine but I think there's some Pokédex entries that'd upgrade the resistance, if you want I can try to look for them.
• Ice Manipulation isn't really a resistance, the guy is saying "it's hard to freeze a Pokémon" because there's no moves that have more than 10% chance to freeze them, but that's not necessarily because of their resistance of it. I'm sure there's some evidence of this, like humans being easily frozen by some ice-type move in the anime, but the current evidence doesn't hold.
• Fragrance is fine but I'd remove Poison Gas, nothing says that the gas would be harmful in any way other than indirect damage.
• The Inbreeding thing is wrong for many many reasons, simplest of which is that that isn't Biological Manipulation to begin with.
• Information Analysis: The guy says "many battles", not "all battles". This means it isn't inherent to all Pokémon.
• Sealing: The fact that most Balls can't 100% capture a Pokémon is a flaw of the technology, not an ability of the Pokémon. A Master Ball can indeed usuallycatch things without fail. Similarly them being capable of leaving the Ball is because it's meant to let them do that, it's not a prison.
  • The "never can be caught again by an outside source" thing is wrong, Pokémon Colosseum/XD show that that's also just a restriction most Pokéballs have, not an inherent resistance.

Additionally I'd add a blanket resistance to temperature manipulation. Even Pokémon weak to fire-type attacks will tank a flamethrower a lot better than a regular human being would, and they can fight 'mons like Magcargo and his 10000°C body, or Houndoom, whose burns cause a pain that never goes away.

 

[Arceus0x]

Additionally I'd add a blanket resistance to temperature manipulation. Even Pokémon weak to fire-type attacks will tank a flamethrower a lot better than a regular human being would, and they can fight 'mons like Magcargo and his 10000°C body, or Houndoom, whose burns cause a pain that never goes away.

I'd also add limited resistance to electricity manipulation (if it isn't there already) here as well since the average pokemon doesn't get a heart attack despite getting thousands of volts put through their body

 

[Antvasima]

Armorchompy seems to make sense here.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'd also add limited resistance to electricity manipulation (if it isn't there already) here as well since the average pokemon doesn't get a heart attack despite getting thousands of volts put through their body

Ten million, even (Z-Moves may be questionable to scale back to normal 'mons but normal Thunderbolt is "100,000 Volts" in Japanese which is already pretty notable)

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh also, another Enhanced Senses feat (Sophocles' Trial, regular Sun & Moon)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ten million, even (Z-Moves may be questionable to scale back to normal 'mons but normal Thunderbolt is "100,000 Volts" in Japanese which is already pretty notable)

Debatably even more

Pikachu alone can discharge electricity equivalent to a lightning bolt:

"It stores electricity in the electric sacs on its cheeks. When it releases pent-up energy in a burst, the electric power is equal to a lightning bolt."
– Pokémon Emerald pokédex

And are seemingly struck by lightning frequently (to the point is its own entry):

"It raises its tail to check its surroundings. The tail is sometimes struck by lightning in this pose."
– Pokémon Silver pokédex

So neat scaling there to the electric types' resistance

 

[Armorchompy]

Debatably even more

Pikachu alone can discharge electricity equivalent to a lightning bolt:

And are seemingly struck by lightning frequently (to the point is its own entry):

So neat scaling there to the electric types' resistance

Pikachu does straight-up get Lightning Rod which makes it immune. I'm not sure how we're treating abilities but yknow.

 

[Bobsican]

Most abilities are just solid resists/assimilations, rather than immunities, for instance 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt overwhelmed Electivire's Motor Drive in the anime

We do currently have policies on that stuff basically limiting to feats or scaling over just going NLF-y.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Pikachu does straight-up get Lightning Rod which makes it immune. I'm not sure how we're treating abilities but yknow.

At the time these entries were written, Pikachu did not have said ability

If we do get weary of scaling electricity to Pikachu do to the existence of Lightning Rod, there's also Electabuzz:

"When a storm approaches, it competes with others to scale heights that are likely to be stricken by lightning. Some towns use Electabuzz in place of lightning rods."
— Emerald

Not only is it implied to eat lightning straight up, but:

"Electricity leaks from it in amounts far greater than the amount of electricity it eats."
— Moon

It generates even greater electricity than that.

Which is kinda fitting, considering the relationship of Togedemaru and Elekid:

"The long hairs on its back act as lightning rods. The bolts of lightning it attracts are stored as energy in its electric sac."
— Moon

(note: Togedemaru also has lightning rod as an ability)

"This Pokémon is constantly fighting with Togedemaru that try to steal its electricity. It's a pretty even match."
— Moon

Kinda makes it consistent electric types in general does seem to just generate electricity (other electric types with lightning rod suggest either attracting lightning straight up or using lightning from the clouds as a form of attack) generally equivalent to lightning or at least to handle that much electricity.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members have accepted or rejected what here so far?

 

[Bobsican]

None seem to have particularly agreed or disagreed, just some general points to improve on before probably being fine with it, so I would advice the OP to update the contents accordingly (unless there's something to disagree on) so this can move forward.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I've pretty much changed everything that needed it so far.

 

[Arceus0x]

I agree with most of what you have rn but i have some gripes.

First, life manipulation.
All pokemon have life force in their tears, such is stated in the beginning of Movie 1 and that's what saves ash.

Second - space-time manipulation.
This CRT has been accepted since ages ago but never applied cause of the canon split.
It should give every pokemon limited space-time manipulation

Third - resistance to info analysis should be limited or possible at best.
The whole point of the pokedex throughout the series is that it can analyze a pokemon and its power and record it. Just because someone's machine didn't work doesn't mean they all resist info analysis, the machine likely just sucked ass and wasn't as well developed as the life-time's worth of professor Oak's work.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I agree with most of what you have rn but i have some gripes.

First, life manipulation.
All pokemon have life force in their tears, such is stated in the beginning of Movie 1 and that's what saves ash.

If you can find where it says it has life force (either in addition to or replacing magic), I can add it to the list.

Second - space-time manipulation.
This CRT has been accepted since ages ago but never applied cause of the canon split.
It should give every pokemon limited space-time manipulation

...Huh. I remember that. I can add it!

Third - resistance to info analysis should be limited or possible at best.
The whole point of the pokedex throughout the series is that it can analyze a pokemon and its power and record it. Just because someone's machine didn't work doesn't mean they all resist info analysis, the machine likely just sucked ass and wasn't as well developed as the life-time's worth of professor Oak's work.

Well, the machine was made by Thorton, who is a Frontier Brain. Frontier Brains are supposed to be unparalleled in intelligence, which is why I was hesitant to give anything lower.

 

[Arceus0x]

If you can find where it says it has life force (either in addition to or replacing magic), I can add it to the list.

my site ain't loading, if you can find the moment when Ambertwo dies that's where she tells Mewtwo about life being in tears, then we see the tears revive ash in the end.

...Huh. I remember that. I can add it!

nice

Well, the machine was made by Thorton, who is a Frontier Brain. Frontier Brains are supposed to be unparalleled in intelligence, which is why I was hesitant to give anything lower.

Thing is, prof Oak would be smarter by default since he is THE professor and the creator of the pokedex.
Also, unparalleled TALENT, not intelligence, those are different things. They are meant to be some of the strongest trainers in hoenn, not geniuses of technology.

 

[Armorchompy]

It doesn't really matter how smart the creator is, the tech is as efficient as demonstrated. But regardless it's pretty obviously not a universal power given Thorton's machine doesn't always work but implicitly definitely does sometimes work, why would he use it otherwise

 

[Omegabronic]

• Resistance to Precognition: The future in Pokémon is constantly changing based on actions, choices, and efforts, meaning that even if the opponent has precognition, it won’t guarantee a certain outcome

This is not a pokemon ability, but seeminly just how the future works in the Pokemon setting, aka anyone else in another universe where the future doesn't work like that would still be able to precog them if fate/future is set in stone. So this should be removed

Resistance to Fear Manipulation and Disease Manipulation: Multiple Pokémon have seen Mimikyu’s true form without dying of fright or to a fatal disease, both of which happen to, and kill, a normal human if they look
in both cases the Pokemon who saw it were utterly terrified, so Fear manip shouldn't be here

• Resistance to Information Analysis: Pokémon cannot be measured with machine analysis and cannot be expressed with numbers

I mean... for him to know this machine worked then it must have worked when he analysed other Pokemon, the fact that he mentions the trainer himself as another thing that couldn't be measured, plus the "power" he is talking about here, which seeminly implies it cause of the trainer + pokemon combo, makes me believe this isn't completely a pokemon ability they have on their own but a thing of the bond between human and pokemon, as such shouldn't be on the physiology page as it would be a phenomena that Pokemon can't create on their own. I might be missing context tho

• Resistance to Sealing: Catching a Pokémon is never a sure thing, and they can escape from being caught even while asleep, frozen solid in a block of ice, rendered immobile, nearly unconscious, or a number of these put together; and once caught they can still leave their Poké Ball whenever they want

How do we know this is a feat of the pokemon and not just the pokeballs being flawless by nature?

• Powerful enough Pokémon cannot be caught at all unless the opposing Trainer is a skilled battler
• Scan of this?
• 
  
• Once caught, Pokémon can never be caught again by an outside source unless released

this is dependent on the Pokeballs, not on the pokemon themselves. Should be removed

• Pressure Points: The original Japanese text refers to scoring a critical hit as hitting the opponents' pressure points

if Critical hits are pressure point strikes, then their addition in the Damage boost section should be removed, as the reason for the extra damage would be the pressure point being hit

• Minor Fate Manipulation: The greatest thing that affects the course of the future, literally, is bonds between Pokemon and between humans

Aka something Pokemon on their own do not have and that isn't inherent to them, but to the bond they may or may not have with humans... so shouldn't be here tbh

• In turn, Trainers who have bonded with a Pokémon can sense what their Pokémon are saying, and possibly even hear them as though they're speaking English

hum... this is a good feat for humans sure... not for the pokemon tho, i really don't know why it is here

• Limited Self-Sealing: Pokémon can re-enter their Poké Balls whenever they want

How to know this isn't a mechanism of the Pokeball and not the Pokemon?

These are the main concerns i brought up earlier that i believe were not given proper answers to yet

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

It doesn't really matter how smart the creator is, the tech is as efficient as demonstrated. But regardless it's pretty obviously not a universal power given Thorton's machine doesn't always work but implicitly definitely does sometimes work, why would he use it otherwise

The point of the scene wasn't "Oh, I made a machine that broke and that's why its readings are off." The point was that numbers don't actively define Pokemon like that.

 

[Arceus0x]

The point of the scene wasn't "Oh, I made a machine that broke and that's why its readings are off." The point was that numbers don't actively define Pokemon like that.

it still seems to be more of an inconsistency. If a pokedex can define a pokemon then it has more weight in this than some guy's one-off machine

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

it still seems to be more of an inconsistency. If a pokedex can define a pokemon then it has more weight in this than some guy's one-off machine

The Pokedex doesn't measure a Pokemon's statistics. It's be more accurate to say certain kinds of Information Analysis don't work.

 

[Arceus0x]

The Pokedex doesn't measure a Pokemon's statistics. It's be more accurate to say certain kinds of Information Analysis don't work.

I think at this point its a matter of specifics, like how there is no way to measure human strength at its finest for example (like you can understand how much a man can lift but you cannot predict how much he'd lift if he's under adrenaline in an emergency state). At this point its more of just general impossibility. Info analysis is oftentimes more so a literal ability to scan someone and see what they can do, in which case Pokemon wouldn't resist it since a pokedex can in fact do it and analyze their abilities down to their details. It'd be pointless to have an ability listed as "resist this one mfs machine"

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

• Resistance to Precognition: The future in Pokémon is constantly changing based on actions, choices, and efforts, meaning that even if the opponent has precognition, it won’t guarantee a certain outcome

This is not a pokemon ability, but seeminly just how the future works in the Pokemon setting, aka anyone else in another universe where the future doesn't work like that would still be able to precog them if fate/future is set in stone. So this should be removed

They should share the rules of their own cosmology even when they're not within it. We treat similar abilities like this.

• Resistance to Fear Manipulation and Disease Manipulation: Multiple Pokémon have seen Mimikyu’s true form without dying of fright or to a fatal disease, both of which happen to, and kill, a normal human if they look

in both cases the Pokemon who saw it were utterly terrified, so Fear manip shouldn't be here

Pokemon can be fainted by attacks they 8x resist, that doesn't mean they don't resist that type in the first place. Remember, normal people die of fright instead of being terrified.

• Resistance to Information Analysis: Pokémon cannot be measured with machine analysis and cannot be expressed with numbers

I mean... for him to know this machine worked then it must have worked when he analysed other Pokemon, the fact that he mentions the trainer himself as another thing that couldn't be measured, plus the "power" he is talking about here, which seeminly implies it cause of the trainer + pokemon combo, makes me believe this isn't completely a pokemon ability they have on their own but a thing of the bond between human and pokemon, as such shouldn't be on the physiology page as it would be a phenomena that Pokemon can't create on their own. I might be missing context tho

He talks about Trainers because there are no wild Pokemon on Pasio, not because he needs it for his research. Also, he said "...you or your Pokemon..." so it's probably not a trainer-exclusive thing.

• Pressure Points: The original Japanese text refers to scoring a critical hit as hitting the opponents' pressure points

if Critical hits are pressure point strikes, then their addition in the Damage boost section should be removed, as the reason for the extra damage would be the pressure point being hit

Not all languages refer to it as being pressure points. Besides, critical hits do do boosted damage whether they're pressure points or not.

• Minor Fate Manipulation: The greatest thing that affects the course of the future, literally, is bonds between Pokemon and between humans

Aka something Pokemon on their own do not have and that isn't inherent to them, but to the bond they may or may not have with humans... so shouldn't be here tbh

It's still an ability whether it's combat-applicable or not, and it would still affect ALL of our Trainer pages, which are near our amount of Pokemon pages themselves.

• In turn, Trainers who have bonded with a Pokémon can sense what their Pokémon are saying, and possibly even hear them as though they're speaking English

hum... this is a good feat for humans sure... not for the pokemon tho, i really don't know why it is here

It affects humans, but the ability itself stems from the Pokemon.

• Limited Self-Sealing: Pokémon can re-enter their Poké Balls whenever they want

How to know this isn't a mechanism of the Pokeball and not the Pokemon?

Because they didn't press the button to do that, while Trainers and uncaught Pokemon need to.

 

[Omegabronic]

They should share the rules of their own cosmology even when they're not within it.

No they shouldn't, as said rules are only applied cuz that is how Fate and the future works, not cause of something iherent of them, but because this is how their reality functions

We treat similar abilities like this.

1 two wrongs don't make a right

2 i don't really care about what other series are doing, it would be better to just explain the logic "why?" Instead

Pokemon can be fainted by attacks they 8x resist, that doesn't mean they don't resist that type in the first place.

said resistance being exclusive physical-damage-on their bodies based, aka AP based, so not equivalent

Remember, normal people die of fright instead of being terrified.

so they resist the Death Manip part of it? Like... they are still affect clearly by the fear, hence why they get horrendlessly terrified, if a resistance is even suppose to be here it would only be a "minor" one imo

He talks about Trainers because there are no wild Pokemon on Pasio, not because he needs it for his research. Also, he said "...you or your Pokemon..." so it's probably not a trainer-exclusive thing.

As said by other people before. This machine clearly worked before, so it not working here where he just so happens to face a trainer and a pokemon, which he talks about both at the same to theorize, i would say it is a trainer + pokemon combo thing

Not all languages refer to it as being pressure points.

doesn't matter, Japan is the original language/source material, it takes precedence over the translation or secondary material

Besides, critical hits do do boosted damage whether they're pressure points or not.

Hitting a preasure point does hurt more, yes, still not inherently boosting the damage via special hax tho

It's still an ability whether it's combat-applicable or not, and it would still affect ALL of our Trainer pages, which are near our amount of Pokemon pages themselves.

So include it in all trainer pages instead? More accurate = better

It affects humans, but the ability itself stems from the Pokemon.

... prove this? Also... the pokemon have power bestowal to give the trainers this ability or something?

Because they didn't press the button to do that, while Trainers and uncaught Pokemon need to.

... again, how can that simply not be on the Pokeball works? Pressing the button clearly isn't a nescesity by the links you showed

 

[Omegabronic]

Also not to be that guy but... i notice a Shadow Pokemon blog linked in the sandbox in the OP ... the OP isn't trying to pass both at once while not mentioning the former right?

 

[Bobsican]

BTW, as what this'd fall as? Asking because technically this'd apply to all Pokemon:

It is the heavenly fount from which pours the light that shines across Hisui. Its luminance guides and protects all Pokémon. Hisuian mythology states that Arceus is the creator of all things.