Bill Cipher vs Yhwach (0-0-1)

[StrymULTRA]

Decided to do this for the Top 15 strongest 3-C on the site, as I didn't see Bill there.

Rules:

• Both 3-C
• Equal Speed
• SBA otherwise

Single Eye:

Lots of Eyes:

Both get blind: 1 (Hellscream)

 

[YmTheSuper]

How does Bill's NEP and AE exactly work.

Also can he deal with soul crush and having his powers nullified due to Yhwach seeing them in the future?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

How does Bill's NEP and AE exactly work.

They work exactly like the page says

Also can he deal with soul crush and having his powers nullified due to Yhwach seeing them in the future?

NEP, NEP, oh and also NEP

 

[StrymULTRA]

How does Bill's NEP and AE exactly work.

NEP in short makes him immune to Soul, Mind and Energy things as these do not really exist in the real world.

Plus AE gives him Type 8 and 9 Immortality across a 1-B cosmology.

Also can he deal with soul crush

NEP

and having his powers nullified

1-B range, ig

Yhwach seeing them in the future?

Bill already can see infinite futures tbf, so I suppose he can always counter whatever Yhwach will do.

 

[YmTheSuper]

Yhwach has nonexistence erasure types 1 and 3 due to the Visionary.

 

[Shar122]

NEP in short makes him immune to Soul, Mind and Energy things as these do not really exist in the real world.

Plus AE gives him Type 8 and 9 Immortality across a 1-B cosmology.

NEP

1-B range, ig

Bill already can see infinite futures tbf, so I suppose he can always counter whatever Yhwach will do.

Overkill, Bill negs and it's not even close .. Yhwach can't do Anything against a type 9 immortality... If his true body really exist in a 1-B realm.. Yeah..

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yhwach has nonexistence erasure types 1 and 3 due to the Visionary.

Would this counter Type 9 Immortality though?

Because his AE makes him an idea that will forever exist as long as he's remembered across generations, and ideas exist in the Mindscape which is across a 13-D Multiverse

 

[Johner2133451]

Isn't this a stomp match

 

[StrymULTRA]

If it's a stomp match, I'll just switch to Dark Schneider, as this is for the Top 15 list as I said.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

If it's a stomp match, I'll just switch to Dark Schneider, as this is for the Top 15 list as I said.

That profile looks awful... How is it on the wiki?

 

[Johner2133451]

Would this counter Type 9 Immortality though?

Because his AE makes him an idea that will forever exist as long as he's remembered across generations, and ideas exist in the Mindscape which is across a 13-D Multiverse

When he can exist as long he's remembered across generations, would that mean the humans on the planet?

 

[StrymULTRA]

When he can exist as long he's remembered across generations, would that mean the humans on the planet?

and ideas exist in the Mindscape which is across a 13-D Multiverse

 

[Johner2133451]

Wait technically Yhwach can turn himself into nonexistent via Vanishing Point and effect bill with every arsenal Yhwach has like "The Fear"

• The Vanishing Point:
  • Statistics Amplification, Enhanced Invisibility, Illusion Creation, Memory Manipulation & Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Types 1 & 3, Aspects 1 & 3; The Vanishing Point is an ability that works in 3 stages. In stage one, Yhwach becomes invisible to even Lieutenant-Class Shinigami, beings which can visually perceive spirit ribbons which are invisible to those who can visually perceive invisible souls, he also retains his ability to attack while in this form. In stage two, Yhwach is capable of causing his very "existence" to disappear from "reality" itself, with this "existence" being comprised of his soul, mind and body. This "stage" also leaves behind an illusory image of himself as the last remainder of his existence. Yhwach can switch between each stage instantly. The third and final stage of The Vanishing Point allows Yhwach to erase his very existence from the opponent's memory, The Vanishing Slider focuses all of his spiritual pressure to move backwards faster than the reaction of his opponent)

 

[Hellscream]

So how is Bill supposed to put Yhwach down exactly?

Also what types of NEP, as Yhwach can interact with both AE, and multiple types of NEP

 

[StrymULTRA]

That profile looks awful... How is it on the wiki?

Tbh can DS even interact with Bill or deal with 1-B immortalities lol?

Wait technically Yhwach can turn himself into nonexistent via Vanishing Point and effect bill with every arsenal Yhwach has like "The Fear"

Sure, but Bill can always come back through Type 9 immortality.

So how is Bill supposed to put Yhwach down exactly?

Transmutation, SI, or also Incap through higher LS (Class Y vs Class T)

Also what types of NEP, as Yhwach can interact with both AE, and multiple types of NEP

Bill is NEP 3.

 

[Johner2133451]

Sure, but Bill can always come back through Type 9 immortality.

I'm arguing 'The Fear" as it's a fear hax ability makes you paralysis which incaps

 

[Johner2133451]

So how is Bill supposed to put Yhwach down exactly?

Also what types of NEP, as Yhwach can interact with both AE, and multiple types of NEP

Yhwach has NEP type 3 which is the same as Bill so no problem there

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm arguing 'The Fear" as it's a fear hax ability makes you paralysis which incaps

Bill resists this, which I can easily argue to be far worse:

• Madness Manipulation (Types 2 and 3; One peek into the Nightmare Realm drove Fiddleford briefly insane and made him poetically describe a future event; Bill lived there for 1 trillion years)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Wait technically Yhwach can turn himself into nonexistent via Vanishing Point and effect bill with every arsenal Yhwach has like "The Fear"

Bill has NEP NPI yk.

So how is Bill supposed to put Yhwach down exactly?

Also what types of NEP, as Yhwach can interact with both AE, and multiple types of NEP

Time Stop? Uh, yeah, Time Stop.

Edit: Also what Strym said.

 

[Hellscream]

First of all, is this Yhwach with Schrifts, i assume you want his strongest key for the top 15 spot right?

 

[StrymULTRA]

First of all, is this Yhwach with Schrifts, i assume you want his strongest key for the top 15 spot right?

Yeah.

 

[Johner2133451]

Bill resists this, which I can easily argue to be far worse:

• Madness Manipulation (Types 2 and 3; One peek into the Nightmare Realm drove Fiddleford briefly insane and made him poetically describe a future event; Bill lived there for 1 trillion years)

Madness manip is not fear hax

 

[Hellscream]

Tbh can DS even interact with Bill or deal with 1-B immortalities lol?

Sure, but Bill can always come back through Type 9 immortality.

Transmutation, SI, or also Incap through higher LS (Class Y vs Class T)

Bill is NEP 3.

Almighty negs this, and Yhwach interacts with NEP3, so what else?

 

[Hellscream]

So now that we know Yhwach can actually interact with bill, considering Yhwach has NEP3, and can interact with AE what's bill doing against being soul crushed passively?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Madness manip is not fear hax

Yeah, it's objectively better.

It's like saying "Dude resists EE but cannot resist Decostruction" when the former is a far stronger version of the latter, especially when the Madness Hax he bases himself on also incapacitates people and can even evaporate people.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Almighty negs this

Negs 1-B Immortality...?

and can interact with AE what's bill doing against being soul crushed passively?

Type 9 1-B Immortality, really.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

So now that we know Yhwach can actually interact with bill, considering Yhwach has NEP3, and can interact with AE what's bill doing against being soul crushed passively?

His NEP Erasure does not include Type 5 [Idea]
Smh

 

[Johner2133451]

Yeah, it's objectively better.

It's like saying "Dude resists EE but cannot resist Decostruction" when the former is a far stronger version of the latter, especially when the Madness Hax he bases himself on also incapacitates people and can even evaporate people.

EE is also not deconstruction wdym?

 

[StrymULTRA]

His NEP Erasure does not include Type 5 [Idea]
Smh

You know that aspects don't matter much when dealing with NEP interaction and only Nature does.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You know that aspects don't matter much when dealing with NEP interaction and only Nature does.

If you can interact with nonexistent soul it does not mean you can interact with nonexistent code
Otherwise why index them at all

 

[StrymULTRA]

EE is also not deconstruction wdym?

Yeah, it's a worse variant of the thing.

I really dislike the idea that "you can only resist only THAT variant of the hax and not worse versions", as it's basically arguing that tanking the heat of the sun wouldn't be useful in tanking magma attacks.

Fear hax is just a subset of Madness hax, I am arguing this.

 

[Johner2133451]

Yeah, it's a worse variant of the thing.

I really dislike the idea that "you can only resist only THAT variant of the hax and not worse versions", as it's basically arguing that tanking the heat of the sun wouldn't be useful in tanking magma attacks.

Fear hax is just a subset of Madness hax, I am arguing this.

Where in the tiering faq/ability is mentioned that resist EE=Deconstruction and resist madness = fear? Also a staff input

 

[StrymULTRA]

If you can interact with nonexistent soul it does not mean you can interact with nonexistent code

Blame this wiki making NEP just incorporeality with some immunities lol.

 

[Pearly0nsams]

What AE yhwach can interact?

 

[YmTheSuper]

Where in the tiering faq/ability is mentioned that resist EE=Deconstruction and resist madness = fear? Also a staff input

I mean both EE and decon destroy things it's just that EE is a better version that erases things from existence.
Also fear is one of the powers of madness hax

 

[StrymULTRA]

Where in the tiering faq/ability is mentioned that resist EE=Deconstruction and resist madness = fear?

Common sense. Use your brain instead of relying on being spoonfed all the time.

 

[Johner2133451]

Common sense. Use your brain instead of relying on being spoonfed all the time.

Common sense how when they have different functions

 

[Hellscream]

Im talking about the "wincon" you stated, which was transmutation, The Almighty passively powernulls his entire kit as soon as the battle starts.

Also immortality type 9, can still be incapped, as this immortality is reliant upon his "true form" being in a different dimension. Yhwach doesn't need to truly "Kill him" and incap is just fine.

Yhwach also just has absorption.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Tbh can DS even interact with Bill or deal with 1-B immortalities lol?

No idea, I honestly can't even read his profile...

 

[Hellscream]

Now what does bill have against being passively soul crushed, with an interdimensional range?