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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

I mean if it creates light and there's stars and stuff it seems exceptionally weird to assume that it only created a few stars when there's an entire universe worth of stars. Considering it rid Poipole's homeworld of light in general it seems more reasonable to say it lit up the universe as a whole.

I will rewatch some stuff tho and get the right evidence, i don't have everything on hand rn.


In the anime, not literally, it only says that he gave birth to the world, planet Earth, and we see that he creates several stars, but nothing beyond just being stars. He doesn't even have the in-game feat of illuminating ultraspace.


He gave birth to the Earth and created stars and gave birth to the planetary world. And the first question is, do you think Lillie is based on a bedtime story?
 
In the anime, not literally, it only says that he gave birth to the world, planet Earth, and we see that he creates several stars, but nothing beyond just being stars.
I mean it says it filled the world with overflowing light and proceeded to create the stars. I feel as though it doesn't make sense that it created these specific stars and just stopped, like, where did the rest of the stars come from then? I feel like it is more reasonable that it created the stars here across the universe rather than just this one specific quadrant of space.
He doesn't even have the in-game feat of illuminating ultraspace.
Sure, doesn't mean it isn't similar, it just means the story is different, which has always been true for anime.
He gave birth to the Earth and created stars and gave birth to the planetary world.
You're contradicting your evidence here, he didn't create the world, he appeared on an already existing world and lit up the world with the stars appearing, alola came be as a byproduct.
And the first question is, do you think Lillie is based on a bedtime story?
What are you even asking here?

Anyways I'll be back I'll fish for evidence myself
 
I mean, I think star, that's all, nothing more than that, and even that's a more atypical case, considering that a meteorite left him on the verge of death.https://i.imgur.com/NXTPNBB.mp4
 
I mean, I think star, that's all, nothing more than that, and even that's a more atypical case, considering that a meteorite left him on the verge of death.https://i.imgur.com/NXTPNBB.mp4
I just got to that part... What are the freaking meteors made of bruh, first Arceus now Necrozma...
 
I'mma be real with you, I think the storyline we have here is uh... Messed up.
There's the Lillie story where we see Necrozma filling the world with light from absolute darkness, but then there's a similar sequence from Acerola's story where we see the stars already existing and necrozma just giving light to alola. This kinda breaks logic in general, like, where tf is the sun? And then it turns out solgaleo and lunala gave light back to necrozma along with the creatures on land... And then we see that the poipole world relies on light from UN and UN then got meteor'd... So it's completely reliant on UN then???

I think the authors were smoking some insane hawaiian zaza when writing this shit bruh I'm starting to give up on not just necrozma scaling to game necrozma but to tier 4 at all..
 
I'mma be real with you, I think the storyline we have here is uh... Messed up.
There's the Lillie story where we see Necrozma filling the world with light from absolute darkness, but then there's a similar sequence from Acerola's story where we see the stars already existing and necrozma just giving light to alola. This kinda breaks logic in general, like, where tf is the sun? And then it turns out solgaleo and lunala gave light back to necrozma along with the creatures on land... And then we see that the poipole world relies on light from UN and UN then got meteor'd... So it's completely reliant on UN then???

I think the authors were smoking some insane hawaiian zaza when writing this shit bruh I'm starting to give up on not just necrozma scaling to game necrozma but to tier 4 at all..
Also, the giant rock in Kalos apparently requires the Anistar City Clock to have a multi-continental feat
The giant rock in the normal era is somewhat comparable to Zygarde 100.
 
I'mma be real with you, I think the storyline we have here is uh... Messed up.
There's the Lillie story where we see Necrozma filling the world with light from absolute darkness, but then there's a similar sequence from Acerola's story where we see the stars already existing and necrozma just giving light to alola. This kinda breaks logic in general, like, where tf is the sun? And then it turns out solgaleo and lunala gave light back to necrozma along with the creatures on land... And then we see that the poipole world relies on light from UN and UN then got meteor'd... So it's completely reliant on UN then???

I think the authors were smoking some insane hawaiian zaza when writing this shit bruh I'm starting to give up on not just necrozma scaling to game necrozma but to tier 4 at all..
Also, according to Anime, Gladion and Ash https://photos.app.goo.gl/7MJBcxk715v43ues6 should have scaled 50 Zygarde, which is comparable. Xerneas and Yveltar were intimidated by Necrozma's base, or at least its League version./Kzh4TX9QeYgLFbaa8
 
Hey man, if you keep complaining about it, I'll keep telling you how to fix it. That's all.
Don’t? It’s not useful input when I’ve established why I can’t make a CRT atm. And the longer it’s left for, the more mess that’s gonna me made clearly if people are trying to pass a cosmology page with literally every continuity being fair game.
 
Yet you're wasting your time here lmao.
No I just have free time that I’m happy to ‘waste’ here.

I know you guys function in your own echo chamber so that you can get away with compositing Pokémon profiles to make them look super strong but it’s crazy to me how you all can act as if games and anime take place in the same continuity
 
You could at least watch the first two episodes on youtube or something before coming up with such a hostile opinion towards it.

Could you explain why you think that, if you have a problem with how we do things, then I think it would be best to either explain your argument or just not interact with the perceived problem I think that complaining helps no one.
I’ve done nothing BUT explain why I think that is??? Even if it should be self explanatory

You’re really acting as if I haven’t been lmao
 
That's your opinion, but it also disproves that it was done "because it was easier"
No, it doesn’t. People literally were in this exact thread saying how ‘dead’ Pokémon was because of the canon split, it’s way too much work

Ofc it’s easier to just leave the profiles as is
I ain't gaslighting, you're gaslighting. You weren't there when it happened as you've said, and you're going on about something you've "heard". Who said it then? Can you tell me?
You’re literally constantly parroting ‘Make a CRT’ like some soundbite when I’ve told you several times so yeah, I’m gonna assume you’re just purposefully trying to rile me up atp.

It was in this exact thread and no, I don’t remember the exact name of the rando user that was saying it. I’m on mobile and not gonna bother with the headache either.

It’s also insanely obvious when you’re trying to combine all the canons into one and composite profiles. Like, we’re literally basing speed tiers off of Pokémon go default animations 😭 it’s so obvious there isn’t a line of criticality put in place
Ironically enough it's not, it literally got an upgrade the moment people started working on it post-canon split. The only few who got nerfs were like some legendaries, but legendaries are gonna be rescaled anyway now as we agreed in the canon unsplit thread. One of the points against the split is the fact that they literally scale to either the same pokedex feats or are forced into vague scaling due to lack of feats other series provide.
Err yeah, it is stronger lmao. Ofc a verse would be stronger if you composited everything it’s got as opposed to the mediums they’re exclusive to. You’re literally trying to give species profiles IQ skills from Pokemon conquest 😭
Oh we agree the timelines are separate, we disagree that the canonicity is separate. Ash is in his timeline, games in another, but they clearly interact and so we have the long established canon hierarchy with games being above anime being above manga ect. What we simply do is say that there's no reason to scale all pokemon differently when they are shown to be very similar.
We haven’t seen ash in the games whatsoever, so assuming he exists and is as strong as he is (literally champion of the world) when the continuity of the games ad anime are drastically different and retelling a of eachother.

You’re ignoring how much the anime detracts from the games and leaves behind a lot of the game-levelling mechanics (in the fact it’s a written story, not a game with a coding system to determine battles). And it’s so obviously on purpose.
That logical leap is about as logical as what sean tried to do lmao. We pretty blatantly established that there are things that bear more weight in canon than others. Sean's whole issue was that he was trying to prove that in actuality Masters is supposed to be as canon as actual games, it's pretty much not the same at all.
The title is literally stated in that crt ‘Everything is canon’.

You all literally think we can use Pokémon Go as a canon way to determine everyone’s speed scaling based on a player controlled default animation. There are games that can overlap with mainline, but let’s be sensible about what we lumping together

This dude was trying to use Pokémon shuffle of all things ffs.
It's a product of sean being sean
Then get on his case more before letting him make a cosmology page with this idea in his head that I’ve kind controlled you all to not like Masters EX 😭
Twisting my words isn't gonna do you any good you know? You're trying to push this who narrative but it's all bs. I am saying that you shouldn't complain if you're not gonna do anything about it. It doesn't matter why you aren't gonna do anything about it, all that matters is that you aren't.
I have a right to be heard and a right to state my views. This is like tellin someone not to complain abt a corrupt system they’re forced into, just because they physically can’t do anything about it to change it.

Maybe one day I will, but I know it’s hardly gonna be a fair trial since I know why everyone is so adamant on keeping profile composites, instead of fixing this verse to the standards it should be as one of the most popular verses that spans most mediums.

Gaslight this gaslight that, you're sounding like a tiktok girl bruh, you're the one here trying to paint a picture that we're the evil evil stonewallers who won't let you do anything, even though we're the ones saying "make a crt". Like brother, of course we're gonna make your life difficult if you try to do it, it's literally the point of powerscaling, arguing that one point is wrong and another is right. Nobody will make it easy for you, the question is whether you've got what it takes to actually challenge that.
No, I’ve told you again, my reasons why I can’t make a CRt, and shouldn’t put it above what’s going on irl. And you’re still purposefully trying to parrot it. That’s easily gaslighting. Don’t respond to me if you don’t want to hear it

Look at you trying to act as if it’s some big challenge I have to undertake under the blatant sabotage and complacency that will happen. I’ve learnt my lesson with this wiki and changes I’ve made that blue names quite literally are helpless against the corruption and sneaky things to overturn results. This isn’t a game, it’s a huge waste of time that I think so hilarious you’re trying to taunt me about


This just proved that you didn't even understand what the canon split and canon unsplit was about. It wasn't about proving that games and anime are in the same universe, it was that the canons are connected and that anime universe is just another timeline in the overall multiverse.
Then why are we mixing it into profiles???

Why are we using anime gag feats like Brocks Happiny (literally obvious gag) to scale general random wild Pokémon from the games that were just pngs on a screen at this time.

Why are we scaling game characters to the likes of Ash, who they haven’t fought? Cause you want to believe they’re comparable

Literally every other applicable verse knows what to do, but Pokemon needs to stick to the reasonings like ‘Scales to Golem who can do something in Pokémon Go’? And we talking about an anime character or smthn? It’s so weird
We see brendan in one of the movies I believe, ironically enough, but then again, you clearly don't even understand the whole point of it.
Okay, why isn’t he or any of the other protags, who you say are comparable to their game counterparts, and going by the scalings of this wiki in the masters 8?

He’s got legendaries right? He should be comparable to the game version. Yet another point on why we shouldn’t be scaling games to anime vice versa
Please don't complain if you aren't gonna do anything anyways. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. You should get a job at a newspaper cause twisting words is clearly a talent here.
It’s least I’d be paid instead of expected to pass a CRT in Vs battles wiki Pokémon 😭 but it’s a ‘challenge’ right, you’re gonna make it difficult because we see a photo of ash in the mimikyu trial so therefore anime MUST be comparable
There's no point in responding to you further. You don't understand the very basics of the crts we did, you're arguing based on that misinformed thought even though you state that you did read the crt.
You try and manipulate my very blatant words to make me and others look bad, trying to shift issues onto us ect. You are a very unpleasant individual, and I'm gonna take a page out of your book and not waste any more time on you.
“I’m not gaslighting”

“You don’t understand what a CRT is”
“You’re so misinformed!”
“You are manipulating me”

I read your CRT and i disagree with it, and notice it disregards literally everything else pointing it out to be separate continuities, which on this wiki as a whole we separate instead of trying to make composite profiles. The games and the anime should be the first step.
Taking random interview statements that hold no regard for the actual implications, instead of actively categorising what is aligned and what isn’t is so you have a excuse to scale everyone to a golem Pokémon Go default animation is just wrong yeah, and it sucks how much work it will take to reverse this that just isn’t worth it
 
I ain't reading allat

Anyways, I've been reading xy pokespe manga and gotta say, Team Flare are genuinely the most evil sons of baguettes ever
 
Don’t? It’s not useful input when I’ve established why I can’t make a CRT atm.
Sure thing, but I will say that could spend the time you're on working on a CRT bit by bit. That's how a lot of people make them, just a little bit at a time until it's ready to post. But that's up to you.
And the longer it’s left for, the more mess that’s gonna me made clearly if people are trying to pass a cosmology page with literally every continuity being fair game.
Well, undoing it has been done before, so I don't think it's that big of a deal-breaker.
 
I’ve done nothing BUT explain why I think that is??? Even if it should be self explanatory

You’re really acting as if I haven’t been lmao
Ultra space wormholes, the copies of games that are technically different universes, the anime multiverse stuff, rainbow rocket, space-time rifts in legends arceus being said to link other universes, there are more examples of Pokemon being comparable across universes then vice versa.
 
Oy Pokemon debaters, I just made the most important CRT you'll ever see. Go vote on it.

 
Been Nuzlocking Renegade Platinum, had a pretty great strategy for the rival fight... Too bad it was for the wrong team '-'



The only differences were a Jolteon instead of a Vaporeon and a Infernape instead of a Torterra, but it was enough for me to have to sack 3 mons
 
Why are we scaling game characters to the likes of Ash, who they haven’t fought?
Where are we scaling game characters to the likes of Ash?
Why are we using anime gag feats like Brocks Happiny (literally obvious gag) to scale general random wild Pokémon from the games that were just pngs on a screen at this time.
The gag happened that said it shouldn't be used to scale given other Pokemon are shown unable to perform a lesser feat and it briefly held up a charging metagross.
 
I've fully caught up with the Horizons anime. Tbh not much for scaling.
-Palafin's LS feat that I already showed
-Entei seems to cause an underground volcano to errupt thus creating a new island
-Terapagos can purify rukurium which, by that logic, gives it purification
-Rukurium seems to make Pokemon go berserk when they're weakened, meaning that a stronger Pokemon can technically resist mind control
-Statement yet again supporting that trainers with Pokemon can surpass any limits with their trust (in this context talking about Liko overpowering Zygarde with her Meowscarada)
-A few small cloud clearing feats for Rayquaza
-We see what happens when a Pokemon trainer dies (the balls open up and the Pokemon become technically wild, though that's what happens with century old pokeballs which is different to an extent)
-Gimmighoul can controls minds
-Black Rayquaza can resist rukurium's concentrated output, something that mind controlled everyone else including G. Moltres and Gouging Inferno
-Some alright LS feats for Hatterem's telekinesis

How was the anime itself?
Kinda mid. It wasn't particularly bad, especially considering it IS a kids anime, but it was rather mediocre. Animation wasn't that great, the battles were alright at most with no one specific fight being outstanding. Characters were enjoyable enough but yet again, too childish in their writing. It all felt too slow paced with some episodes being pretty much skippable.
I would show this to a kid for sure but as an adult its boring to watch. So overall, 7.5/10 by kids show standards, very generous 6/10 for normal anime standards (it still sweeps any isekai slop any day)

One thing that made me give it above 5 is that is very much made me feel lightly happy throughout, as it was in fact, a rather cute anime with a lot of wholesome things, especially background stuff that Pokemon do.
 
I also have gathered tons of scans from the pokespe manga that gives context for some abilities, gives some feats and more. I think I'll upload them to a google doc or something cause there's a bunch and imgur might think im trying to store entire chapters and ban me for piracy or sth (idk how strict their moderation is and whether it can affect privated posts)
 
I've fully caught up with the Horizons anime. Tbh not much for scaling.
-Palafin's LS feat that I already showed
-Entei seems to cause an underground volcano to errupt thus creating a new island
-Terapagos can purify rukurium which, by that logic, gives it purification
-Rukurium seems to make Pokemon go berserk when they're weakened, meaning that a stronger Pokemon can technically resist mind control
-Statement yet again supporting that trainers with Pokemon can surpass any limits with their trust (in this context talking about Liko overpowering Zygarde with her Meowscarada)
-A few small cloud clearing feats for Rayquaza
-We see what happens when a Pokemon trainer dies (the balls open up and the Pokemon become technically wild, though that's what happens with century old pokeballs which is different to an extent)
-Gimmighoul can controls minds
-Black Rayquaza can resist rukurium's concentrated output, something that mind controlled everyone else including G. Moltres and Gouging Inferno
-Some alright LS feats for Hatterem's telekinesis

How was the anime itself?
Kinda mid. It wasn't particularly bad, especially considering it IS a kids anime, but it was rather mediocre. Animation wasn't that great, the battles were alright at most with no one specific fight being outstanding. Characters were enjoyable enough but yet again, too childish in their writing. It all felt too slow paced with some episodes being pretty much skippable.
I would show this to a kid for sure but as an adult its boring to watch. So overall, 7.5/10 by kids show standards, very generous 6/10 for normal anime standards (it still sweeps any isekai slop any day)

One thing that made me give it above 5 is that is very much made me feel lightly happy throughout, as it was in fact, a rather cute anime with a lot of wholesome things, especially background stuff that Pokemon do.
Sounds about right? I mean, I haven't watched properly the anime in ages, but wasn't a good part of the appeal the nostalgia for longtime fans and mostly appealing for the target younger audience? The writting, filler, repetitive formula, uneven animation, characterization (especially Ash's), were always point of controversy to varying degree among older fans. Funnily, two extremes I've seen around are X&Y and Sun and Moon, the former being either called the series that Pokemon felt like a true anime or a a checklist of generic shonen cliches (and that anime is more than just action battle stories) and the latter being called too childish and silly or the series with most heart.

(it still sweeps any isekai slop any day)
Aye
 
Sounds about right? I mean, I haven't watched properly the anime in ages, but wasn't a good part of the appeal the nostalgia for longtime fans and mostly appealing for the target younger audience? The writting, filler, repetitive formula, uneven animation, characterization (especially Ash's), were always point of controversy to varying degree among older fans. Funnily, two extremes I've seen around are X&Y and Sun and Moon, the former being either called the series that Pokemon felt like a true anime or a a checklist of generic shonen cliches (and that anime is more than just action battle stories) and the latter being called too childish and silly or the series with most heart.


Aye
... Ash isn't in this one man
 
Was thinking....

Shouldn't some or all Pokemon, at the least, get Limited Non-Physical Interaction or something because of Brick Break?
Reflect & Light Screen are both described in their in-game descriptions as "a wondrous wall of light", & when Brick Break is used while one is active, a special animation will show in some games, as well as the message "The wall shattered!"
Admittedly, their purpose is to be barriers/blockades; They can obstruct other attacks, as that's their purpose, so maybe it's a hard light situation? Assuming we don't just use that &/or type energy to say all Pokemon moves can interact with light or whatever.

It can also remove Aurora Veil, but IDK if there's an animation/message for that, & Aurora Veil only describes its mechanical effects in its description, & its original Japanese name is the English "Aurora Veil" in phonetic Japanese katakana.
Thus, I'm uncertain we could do more for it than assume it's 1 or more of light, magnetism because aurora, & maybe temperature manipulation? Because ice-type & conditions, IDK why the cold matters for it. Or is it geography & magnetism?


What do you all think?
 
Was thinking....

Shouldn't some or all Pokemon, at the least, get Limited Non-Physical Interaction or something because of Brick Break?
Reflect & Light Screen are both described in their in-game descriptions as "a wondrous wall of light", & when Brick Break is used while one is active, a special animation will show in some games, as well as the message "The wall shattered!"
Admittedly, their purpose is to be barriers/blockades; They can obstruct other attacks, as that's their purpose, so maybe it's a hard light situation? Assuming we don't just use that &/or type energy to say all Pokemon moves can interact with light or whatever.

It can also remove Aurora Veil, but IDK if there's an animation/message for that, & Aurora Veil only describes its mechanical effects in its description, & its original Japanese name is the English "Aurora Veil" in phonetic Japanese katakana.
Thus, I'm uncertain we could do more for it than assume it's 1 or more of light, magnetism because aurora, & maybe temperature manipulation? Because ice-type & conditions, IDK why the cold matters for it. Or is it geography & magnetism?


What do you all think?
They should get that anyways, since they can touch ghosts.
 
Sounds about right? I mean, I haven't watched properly the anime in ages, but wasn't a good part of the appeal the nostalgia for longtime fans and mostly appealing for the target younger audience? The writting, filler, repetitive formula, uneven animation, characterization (especially Ash's), were always point of controversy to varying degree among older fans. Funnily, two extremes I've seen around are X&Y and Sun and Moon, the former being either called the series that Pokemon felt like a true anime or a a checklist of generic shonen cliches (and that anime is more than just action battle stories) and the latter being called too childish and silly or the series with most heart.


Aye
Honestly, Sun and Moon is truly honest with the characters and the climactic moments.
And some characters aren't so black and white.
 
Masters is an interesting case, while some could think it shouldn't be used for trainer profiles as those breach into composite profile status over going over the mere potential Pokemon as a species have, it is stated that it is meant to showcase what such characters can do without deviating from their capabilities, in fact the thread that went for the canon split explicitly didn't want to fully devalue Masters in particular, so that much of the current status quo would remain unless yet another CRT is done.
 
With the setting working in a manner that makes virtually everything a secondary canon to each other, with the closest thing to a primary canon being the core game series, Masters is fair game to use as long it's not used for semantics on civilization pages (in terms of who are currently members of X group and so on).
 
With the setting working in a manner that makes virtually everything a secondary canon to each other, with the closest thing to a primary canon being the core game series, Masters is fair game to use as long it's not used for semantics on civilization pages (in terms of who are currently members of X group and so on).
That's probably the least intrusive thing to use Masters for to date. What could it possibly be used for that's even smaller than that?
 
Mainly lore and whichever stuff their Pokemon can access/do with their bond with their specific trainers.
 
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