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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Emerl was born around the same time as the equidnas 4000 years ago, no?
Yeah, Emerl was 4000 years ago according to Sonic Battle, but the new Timeline on Sonic Channel is saying less than 2000 instead (as it is listed after the 2000 years ago value from the Black Arms temple).

Their relation to the Echidna is iffy though. Dark Brotherhood was what established a connection, but Penders doing what he did had Sega decanonize it. We know for sure that the Echidnas are less than 10 thousand years ago, so they're probably in a similar range or overlap/close, but it's not a surefire thing anymore, I think.
 
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Equidnas are 4000 years old. That's stated in Adventure. Anyways I will take the game content first as reference.
 
In a way, I'm surprised how quite a few of recent lore added were mistranslations from the Japanese text that ended up unnoticed by Western fans for years that ended up being discussed by writers who were also fans back in the day, and now is canon.

The 4 Great Civilizations, Neuro-Immune Deficiency Syndrome, and others were totally different things in the original lore but now are right there in current official material. It's quite fascinating how that ended up happening.
 
In a way, I'm surprised how quite a few of recent lore added were mistranslations from the Japanese text that ended up unnoticed by Western fans for years that ended up being discussed by writers who were also fans back in the day, and now is canon.

The 4 Great Civilizations, Neuro-Immune Deficiency Syndrome, and others were totally different things in the original lore but now are right there in current official material. It's quite fascinating how that ended up happening.
i feel a bit of a air for japanese favoritism...from you
 
i feel a bit of a air for japanese favoritism...from you
I prefer to favor the source material and material related to it as much as possible, no matter the series. For example, I'm one of those who would prefer if Ben 10 just kept all the Toy Cards lore bits and Pop-up info as 100% canon as much as possible. If there's something from a series' bible, I would prefer for that to be kept somehow. Always in the intent of "Not remove something, just add on top of it" (And even then, there's some nuance, there are some who are 1000x more drastic in regards to this than me).

I, for example, didn't say those were bad changes in general. I complained about removing the line of Blaze having time traveled with the Sol Emeralds, but picking a random line about 4 Great Civilizations that were not made in an ordinal sense, but as a reference to a real-world concept, and decide to adapt that into actual in-universe civilizations that connects with the lore is fine.

I do dislike the approach of Maria's illness, which was native/primary immunodeficiency syndrome, and the new reason why she went to the Ark being because "low gravity environment would subdue her symptoms", when originally the idea was that the environment in the Ark was clean of most illness so her body didn't have danger of taking some illness to her immunocompromised system. But, I think that the two ideas could work together, so I think that not mentioning the two together is bad; the more information there is, the better to me.

When there's some intent with a work and I enjoy it, I think it's just natural to want to see that being respected. More often than not, I find localizations that distort the original meaning in some way, losing some of the nuance. But this has nothing to do with Japan. I dislike the mistakes the Brazilian dub of Ben 10 just as much.

So, if there's an effort to gather more information about something and have what was done in the past matter in the present, I, of course, would much more favor that approach than one that ignores the past material in order to create something that was never there despite the original already existing. So you can understand why I enjoy Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth and Survive as a spiritual sequel to Digimon Adventure, but I dislike Digimon Adventure Last Evolution Kizuna and 02 The Beginning as literal sequels to Digimon Adventure. Both were made in Japan.

Similarly, I dislike when something in Sonic takes from what was originally in the manuals, books, and other Japanese Sonic resources and decides to overwrite it because "Americans didn't know about it, so we have to create it again" or "This was mistranslated, but it has been so common to American fans that now it's canon". I would dislike just as much if they were to create a sequel to the American Sonic Lore and somehow decide to turn it into Japanese Sonic as if it was always it, when it wasn't (Same goes to Archie Sonic, Fleetway Sonic, etc).
 
imilarly, I dislike when something in Sonic takes from what was originally in the manuals, books, and other Japanese Sonic resources and decides to overwrite it because "Americans didn't know about it, so we have to create it again" or "This was mistranslated, but it has been so common to American fans that now it's canon". I would dislike just as much if they were to create a sequel to the American Sonic Lore and somehow decide to turn it into Japanese Sonic as if it was always it, when it wasn't (Same goes to Archie Sonic, Fleetway Sonic, etc).
to be honest without the west side of Sonic, Sonic will have died in the 90s, Japan alone is not enough for Sonic to survive, thats why i, mostly, dislike JP Sonic, because its own country of origin, does not "love"him the way people love him in all the world (which is ironic because all the world has a problem or not with sonic)
 
to be honest without the west side of Sonic, Sonic will have died in the 90s, Japan alone is not enough for Sonic to survive, thats why i, mostly, dislike JP Sonic, because its own country of origin, does not "love"him the way people love him in all the world (which is ironic because all the world has a problem or not with sonic)
I don't think that the popularity or how much money one side gives really matters to what I said. What I was talking about was the original intent and what was the overall message and world building of the original material if we were to just decide that a series needs to change to fit whatever are the expectations of the region that gives more money to it, I don't think we should give the keys to Dragon Ball to Latam or Ben 10 to India.

At least in the context of what I was saying, I just think we should respect the original material if the intent is to be more truthful to it, and not just change it because Western didn't know about it. I would say this is how information should be handled in general: make it easily available to the most amount of people instead of making up that the original didn't exist to make something instead.

For example, I wouldn't think it would be good if for now on Yu-Gi-OH gets a sequel that decides to bring the Shadow Realm to the Japanese canon just because Americans spend a lot of money with the card game and they like to use it for memes.
 
Wasnt there a list of things that were adapted from other sources?

I do find it funny that technically some characters apparently were adapted from Archie, but only some niche E-line robots lol
 
Wasnt there a list of things that were adapted from other sources?
There were some I remember. A few of them were actually from old mistranslations and material that were shared around by Sonic fans back in the day and got into Archie which then became a reference back to official. Like Maria's illness. Originally it came from Sonic Adventure 2's guidebook and was called NIDS: Native Immunodeficiency Syndrome. But when Western fans translated it back in the day, it was full of mistranslations and they called NIDS Neuro-Immune Deficiency Syndrome. Then Ian used that name in Archie and finally, that was added currently to the official canon of the games.

In a way, not much different to how a bunch of misinformation from Ben 10 Wiki ended up finding its way to the Ben 10 show because new writers just didn't check the original sources.
 
In a way, I'm surprised how quite a few of recent lore added were mistranslations from the Japanese text that ended up unnoticed by Western fans for years that ended up being discussed by writers who were also fans back in the day, and now is canon.

The 4 Great Civilizations, Neuro-Immune Deficiency Syndrome, and others were totally different things in the original lore but now are right there in current official material. It's quite fascinating how that ended up happening.
Ngl this feels annoying to think about, it's like if Jumpman being Mario's dad became canon after it was a headcanon mainly because the mario lore team watched game theory
 
But look on the bright side! References and the Spin Dash!
So we'll finally gonna use the Sweet Spot after so long, no?
I do dislike the approach of Maria's illness, which was native/primary immunodeficiency syndrome, and the new reason why she went to the Ark being because "low gravity environment would subdue her symptoms", when originally the idea was that the environment in the Ark was clean of most illness so her body didn't have danger of taking some illness to her immunocompromised system. But, I think that the two ideas could work together, so I think that not mentioning the two together is bad; the more information there is, the better to me.
It felt strange how they changed Maria from being born in the ARK originally to her being born on Earth instead in Shadow Gens/Sonic Channel.
 
I don't think that the popularity or how much money one side gives really matters to what I said. What I was talking about was the original intent and what was the overall message and world building of the original material if we were to just decide that a series needs to change to fit whatever are the expectations of the region that gives more money to it, I don't think we should give the keys to Dragon Ball to Latam or Ben 10 to India.

At least in the context of what I was saying, I just think we should respect the original material if the intent is to be more truthful to it, and not just change it because Western didn't know about it. I would say this is how information should be handled in general: make it easily available to the most amount of people instead of making up that the original didn't exist to make something instead.

For example, I wouldn't think it would be good if for now on Yu-Gi-OH gets a sequel that decides to bring the Shadow Realm to the Japanese canon just because Americans spend a lot of money with the card game and they like to use it for memes.
NGL, maybe we really should just give Transformers to China though.
 
if anything it makes things more tragic
I think there's more to substance/decisions than being tragic. Whether that be subtle changes, or other large implications/themes. I dunno if you're implying this is a good change. But being more tragic =/= better/more relatable story (In fact, at some point, you can be too tragic to the point of being overbearing/unrealistic).
 
I think there's more to substance/decisions than being tragic. Whether that be subtle changes, or other large implications/themes. I dunno if you're implying this is a good change. But being more tragic =/= better/more relatable story (In fact, at some point, you can be too tragic to the point of being overbearing/unrealistic).
unrealistic in what way?
 
unrealistic in what way?
It's like a reverse mary gary sue. Where the character is the most tragic character that "no one can understand" and their life sucks in every conceivable way to a point that it's corny. You don't see it often (Thankfully), but it can be annoying. It's similar to how people hate characters being TOO edgy.
 
It's like a reverse mary gary sue. Where the character is the most tragic character that "no one can understand" and their life sucks in every conceivable way to a point that it's corny. You don't see it often (Thankfully), but it can be annoying. It's similar to how people hate characters being TOO edgy.
Agni from fire punch?
 
I really dislike this retcon.
Eh. I can see an argument being made for it being a bit off as a writing choice when considering what was suggested by SA2 and related material, but whatever

It definitely services the tragedy of all the work Gerald put into Project Shadow, risking a broken family in the hopes that Maria would one day be cured
 
Honestly, I don't think care about it all too much. To me it's just "she was on the ark". When and how? Don't care. Hardly matters too much in the long run.
 
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I think there's more to substance/decisions than being tragic. Whether that be subtle changes, or other large implications/themes. I dunno if you're implying this is a good change. But being more tragic =/= better/more relatable story (In fact, at some point, you can be too tragic to the point of being overbearing/unrealistic).
I think Maria being born on the ARK adds substance that isn't as digestible. That calls into question what her parents were doing there

At least with her being born on Earth but having to be moved to the ARK due to her condition, the looming factor of the Robotnik family adds the element of time and stakes that makes for a more compelling reason as to why Gerald went insane after her death. The very organization he had initiated Project Shadow for undid all his work, and therefore undid his last hope to save his granddaughter and fix his now broken family
 
I think Maria being born on the ARK adds substance that isn't as digestible. That calls into question what her parents were doing there

At least with her being born on Earth but having to be moved to the ARK due to her condition, the looming factor of the Robotnik family adds the element of time and stakes that makes for a more compelling reason as to why Gerald went insane after her death. The very organization he had initiated Project Shadow for undid all his work, and therefore undid his last hope to save his granddaughter and fix his now broken family
I don't care so much for the factors like "Why were her parents on the ark."

I think it's more a matter of; "Has gotten to experience of Earth, but was pried away from it at a young age." versus "Will NEVER get to experience the beauty of Earth, and only observe it from a distance away." Both give distinctly different feelings. I would be more empathetic of the one who never got to experience living on Earth than the one who at least had some time there. It's obviously a subjective thing, but that's just my thoughts on it.
 
Dumb question, but where was it ever said that Maria was born on the ARK before it was retconned to be that she was born on Earth and was transported to the ARK to put her disease in stasis? I'm not knowledgeable on the obscurest pieces of lore, so this is the first time I've heard this.

But even still, I can see why people would dislike the retcon. It takes away some of the tragedy of Maria's death by making her originally from Earth, instead of a sick girl born in space and desired to experience the beauty of Earth but was killed before she could see her dream come true.
 
Classic Sonic's Strike Dash might genuinely be one of the worst Invulnerability haxes in the wiki if it ever got added. In Sonic Chaos you need to charge up the move for 30 seconds to gain the effect, but it dissapears once you stop moving, in Sonic Triple Trouble the effect is actually instant, although it literally only lasts for a split second.
 
Mistranslation actually, in japanese she only mentioned how much Shadow observed it
Even in Japanese, it is implied that Maria never went to Earth. Let's not forget that Sega of Japan wrote the Sonic X adaptation, in which Maria was said to have never been to Earth several times before.
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Unfortunately Sonic's canon is consistently inconsistent. I remember child me hearing of retcons and changes they'd make, so it isn't new.
 
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