• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

A few ability additions for black clover

Status
Not open for further replies.
PHANtomFELdway

PHANtomFELdway

Messages
1,369
Reaction score
778
My first actual thread,so ignore the layout being so ass.



For Asta,I wanted to change anti-magic into.



Energy negation/powernull & life manipulation: Life Stealing/Instant Death


Anti magic is anti-energy, it erases mana itself,mana is supernatural energy that makes its home inside living things, Mana is fundamental energy,being the origin of souls,souls include all aspects of someone,including thier mind,life and magic life itself carries mana to the point you are able to use that mana to make a spell in exchange for your life ,and anti magic is able to erase the mana in your life force,Such as erasing the life force of plants,and some of people

So basically it negates Magic by erasing the energy that makes up the spell ,and without energy the spell disappears, this shouldn’t be limited to magic,as mana isn’t magic,and is in fact the source of it.

Also for some reason Zetten is only an amp to attack speed, with like projectiles and stuff, when it allows you to strengthen your body and physically move, being capable of blitzing someone who was relative previously



So I would like to add the amp to speed in general,


For zagred, wanted to add



Death manip & existence eraser



Whatever zagred says comes true,working even on living beings, the size of the effect corresponds to the amount by which the amount of his magic exceeds theirs,


So while it didn’t work on yuno & asta ,if you have way less power,then he can straight up tell you to die,and disappear,(probably won’t be useful,but who knows)

Now is time for possible wank.imma test my luck.

For devils/forbidden magic users.

Layered intangibility: lower ranking devils can’t even interact with higher ranked ones (in spiritual form )


Reality warping and conceptual manip type 2 & soul manip. Magic is the ability to overrule reality,forbidden magic interferes with the soul & the world itself,violating the natural laws of the world, allowing for the manipulation of concepts.

Vanessa has the power to manipulate fate, which includes manipulating causality and probability (already accepted)

her power is stated to manipulate natural laws, which means that what she manipulates are part of the world’s laws,Which is confirmed

Yet fate is a concept As Morris tells her that he can interfere with concepts in reference to why her powers are not working , Morris says that because he gained a devils power/forbidden magic it allowed him to manipulate concepts which is in reference to forbidden magic interfering with the world itself meaning that laws are concepts and should get conceptual manip from it 🗣️. . (If this isn’t enough,then should be changed to law manipulation for now )


Acasualty type 4 :Forbidden Magic goes against the laws of the world, including that of cause and effect, used by beings of the underworld, beyond and outside the human realm

AE2: Demons are magic itself, forbidden magic goes against the worlds laws


Maybe for asta?

Anti magic flies in the face of natural laws it is said that nothing in the natural world can go against time,but anti magic is the natural enemy of that (which could be in reference to anti magics negation,but it is just as likely to be in reference to anti magic opposing natural laws as devil power violates natural laws) he is an anomaly who was born without mana which should not be possible , mana is the origin of souls, which is life,mind,and magic, life itself holds mana, so asta is alive without the fundamental energy that is the origin of everything,

his future cannot be seen ,so while he would probably just get resistance,it seems more like he just lacks everything needed for the world and goes against it.so maybe unconventional resistance to things that target those aspects


As for paladins: including the stuff about devils because paladins are made by bringing sacred power upon devils, they are blessed by Lucius gaining nearly immortal bodies and surpass the world’s natural laws,

by becoming mana, Meroleona also surpassed the world’s natural laws becoming similar to a paladin



Also I just thought of it, but would they get resistance to shi like powernull/someone stealing thier powers because magic itself is part of thier soul, as the soul is mind/life/magic


Watch this all get rejected


Conclusion,



Forbidden magic goes against the natural world,demons embody forbidden magic, so thier very existence goes against it, and therefore get acasualty,



Rest is self explanatory I believe.




Counter arguments



Devils and ancient demons are different, so demons being magic doesn’t mean devils are,


A: they are both made by negative mana/power of the underworld ,licht even says that he is becoming like a demon, the only difference seems to be that devils are spiritual and only gain a physical form when they come to the physical world.





“The reason Meroleona cannot be touched is cause she isn’t physical “ and not because of something else





A. The person she was fighting is Morris, not only was he aware that Meroleona resurrected the people previously killed as souls and made of mana yet still confident that he could still dismantle them (same person who fused mars and fana souls and made mars have two different magic powers btw), Morris was already able to touch intangible things, such as supreme devils,knowledge/information ,dreams,is literally able to touch intangible concepts. Should also be able to touch mid ranking devils,and nacht shadows which are things/concepts without substance lacking physicality, so it very clearly isn’t simply that he can’t touch her for the sole reason of her being intangible







Why am I wanking?



A. Would never catch me doing such a thing 🙏 at most it needs a few more scans (my interpretations are goated and I thought it up on the spot)





(Also there are a few scans missing because I have to look through the 500+ black clover scans I have to find them,so I will add them as I find them. Tho I think they should already be on profiles as they are already accepted things)


Conceptual manip HAS to be accepted 🗣️, it isn’t a coincidence that forbidden magic interferes with the laws of the world, and the only devil that doesn’t have a a direct mention of the word concept is zagred while everyone else has conceptual manip, ,but even nacht with mid ranking devils has them ,(zagred is a high ranking devil)


Agree: ActuallySpaceMan42 (with everything besides ac4,layered intangibility , and speed amp. As they have no opinion on those)
Dalesean027: agrees with everything besides ac4
Finepoint: agrees with everything besides ac4


Neutral:
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
After reading this, besides the part about reality warping, this seems... Oddly reasonably. I think I want another argument on that reality warping but but everything else seems to coorlate with the story.
 
henryzx900ruly said:
After reading this, besides the part about reality warping, this seems... Oddly reasonably. I think I want another argument on that reality warping but but everything else seems to coorlate with the story.
Click to expand...
The reality warping part wasn’t solely based on the scan about overruling reality, I added that scan as additional evidence for the statement about it interfering with the world since conceptual/law manip sometimes overlap , but I agree that it can use more evidence besides that one time statement, I just added it in there because of that statement,


(Hopefully mods are of the same opinion as you because my next thread I am planning is a topic no one likes)
 
Dog3352 said:
Well, I'm not a staff, and I'm not exactly experienced in CM, I believe I was accidentally marked.
Click to expand...
Alright,tho it should be pretty easy since there is a direct statement,just don’t know if they will say it is CM2 or cm3
 
PHANtomFELdway said:
Alright,tho it should be pretty easy since there is a direct statement,just don’t know if they will say it is CM2 or cm3
Click to expand...
I am not good with cm, but I believe it depends on what is being said in the statement.

I believe that if cosmology makes it clear that these "concepts" have a certain level of fundamentality for something, how to govern or shape part of "something" and be fundamental to this "something", they qualified for CM2.

A concept that does not shape or not govern something, and that is not fundamental to something, will probably be thrown immediately to CM3.
 
Last edited:
Reiner04 said:
OP wanted me to tag some staffs, I'll tag some knowledgeable members on CM along so they can evaluate too in meantime
@Elizhaa @Dog3352 @Firestorm808 @Dalesean027 @Fixxed @DarkDragonMedeus
Click to expand...
Well i dont know this verse

But for get concept type 2 that concept must prove can affect all of the object it govern. What i see here are just type 3, it shaped the world of course, but i think after i read the scan that concept just shape specific object over all objects

It clear when the devil ice and flame magic appear, the scan say it can burn and frezee all concepts (well i think the context highly indicate it was not just some concepts but all concepts) but the scan not showing are all the objects in reality be erased or not. Soo i think it indicate those devil just affect the specific concept of the universal concept. It can overrule reality but yeah not all of reality just a specific part of it

I have problem also with reality warping and aca 4

  • About RW, it is clear that they can overrule reality because they manipulate the shape/concept not a direct warping. So it must be just a concept manipulation (basically all fundamental abstraction manipulation are RW). For get RW you must directly warp the reality
  • And for aca 4, i dont see cause and effect being mentioned there like OP say, just mention natural law doesnt enough for get aca 4. Even if causality was mentioned there, i dont think just violates it can make you aca 4, aca 4 are outside causality entirely but just not in changless state
 
Fixxed said:
Well i dont know this verse

But for get concept type 2 that concept must prove can affect all of the object it govern. What i see here are just type 3, it shaped the world of course, but i think after i read the scan that concept just shape specific object over all objects
Click to expand...
Fixxed said:
It clear when the devil ice and flame magic appear, the scan say it can burn and frezee all concepts (well i think the context highly indicate it was not just some concepts but all concepts) but the scan not showing are all the objects in reality be erased or not.
Click to expand...
The statement about them freezing those concepts was talking about when nacht created a dimension based on them, I was showing that devils manipulation of concepts manipulates the very shape of the world, I don’t see how you concluded that they were destroying all concepts in the world when they weren’t even in the world when this happened, maybe I left out some scans, they destroyed the concepts nacht created as part of his own dimension, really don’t see how that is relevant as you don’t need to even manipulate every concept that exists as a whole to get cm2

Fixxed said:
Soo i think it indicate those devil just affect the specific concept of the universal concept. It can overrule reality but yeah not all of reality just a specific part of it
Click to expand...
Literally isn’t even a requirement,

If a verse has type 2 concept of time and space,fate,light,darkness just manipulating one of them alone would mean you are manipulating a type 2 concept,you don’t need to manipulate all of them at once, like if you manipulate the concept of time to stop time, what need are other concepts in that moment?
Fixxed said:
I have problem also with reality warping and aca 4

  • About RW, it is clear that they can overrule reality because they manipulate the shape/concept not a direct warping. So it must be just a concept manipulation (basically all fundamental abstraction manipulation are RW). For get RW you must directly warp the reality
Click to expand...
Alright,
Fixxed said:
  • And for aca 4, i dont see cause and effect being mentioned there like OP say, just mention natural law doesnt enough for get aca 4. Even if causality was mentioned there, i dont think just violates it can make you aca 4, aca 4 are outside causality entirely but just not in changless state
Click to expand...
I linked the profile for a reason , Vanessa power is to manipulate fate, fate includes causality and probability which is accepted on her profile, so her powers manipulating the worlds laws, means that what she manipulates (which includes manipulating cause and effect) are laws of the world, really shouldn’t be hard to infer this,

Also I am seriously wondering if you read it entirely, as the argument is that not only do they violate the laws, they exist in a world beyond & separate from them, so aren’t subject to them, being part of the underworld, you don’t even need to be outside causality as a whole for acasualty type 4, just working on a different system is enough,which is the case here,
 
PHANtomFELdway said:
The statement about them freezing those concepts was talking about when nacht created a dimension based on them, I was showing that devils manipulation of concepts manipulates the very shape of the world, I don’t see how you concluded that they were destroying all concepts in the world when they weren’t even in the world when this happened, maybe I left out some scans, they destroyed the concepts nacht created as part of his own dimension, really don’t see how that is relevant as you don’t need to even manipulate every concept that exists as a whole to get cm2
Click to expand...
Like i say i dont know this verse. I dont say you need to manipulate every concept for get cm2. I say you need to manipulate a concept that can affect all of the object it govern. Concept are the shape of the world by it definition, soo it not matter if it type 3 2 1 it still manipulate the shape

What i really mean here are is there any scan/proof that the concept they manipulate affect all of the object it govern?

PHANtomFELdway said:
Literally isn’t even a requirement,

If a verse has type 2 concept of time and space,fate,light,darkness just manipulating one of them alone would mean you are manipulating a type 2 concept,you don’t need to manipulate all of them at once, like if you manipulate the concept of time to stop time, what need are other concepts in that moment?
Click to expand...
I literally write concept instead of concepts there for making sure what i mean was just 1 concept, I think you dont understand what i say here. No i dont say type 2 must manipulate all concepts that exist in reality. I say you will have type 3 if you just manipulate specific concept that govern specific part of the whole objects it can govern, you will get type 2 if that concept are not specific but universal that mean that concept must govern all objects, including all specific concepts that govern spesific objects. So type 3 just a specific concept of the universal concept

PHANtomFELdway said:
I linked the profile for a reason , Vanessa power is to manipulate fate, fate includes causality and probability which is accepted on her profile, so her powers manipulating the worlds laws, means that what she manipulates (which includes manipulating cause and effect) are laws of the world, really shouldn’t be hard to infer this,

Also I am seriously wondering if you read it entirely, as the argument is that not only do they violate the laws, they exist in a world beyond & separate from them, so aren’t subject to them, being part of the underworld, you don’t even need to be outside causality as a whole for acasualty type 4, just working on a different system is enough,which is the case here,
Click to expand...
Okay then, but like i say it doesnt enough

I read the scan, the beyond there are not for describe a world that superior and outside the mortality aspect including it law. But the context highly indicate it just a seperate realm or more clear are seperate space, seperated from the human world. It was a ambiguous statement, you need more clear one

And i dont know why the violation of natural law scan and the beyond human realm scan are connected, the violation is talking about ability or power and the other is talking about world/space/realm. And aca 4 are entirely beyond causality system still, what i mean here are it not matter the layer of ability of causality manipulation you have you still cannot affect aca 4
 
Fixxed said:
Okay then, but like i say it doesnt enough

I read the scan, the beyond there are not for describe a world that superior and outside the mortality aspect including it law. But the context highly indicate it just a seperate realm or more clear are seperate space, seperated from the human world. It was a ambiguous statement, you need more clear one

And i dont know why the violation of natural law scan and the beyond human realm scan are connected, the violation is talking about ability or power and the other is talking about world/space/realm. And aca 4 are entirely beyond causality system still, what i mean here are it not matter the layer of ability of causality manipulation you have you still cannot affect aca 4
Click to expand...
will respond to the rest later, but this is just entirely wrong,

For one. The scan about being beyond the natural realm was literally right after she used forbidden magic iirc so they are connected,

Regardless of it being beyond in the sense of a different universe, that still means that they are governed by different laws than the natural realm, as it’s very nature goes against it,

Idk where you got acasualty is beyond causality as a whole from,that is type 5



Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This has the POTENTIAL to grant them resistances to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

So resistance isn’t even guaranteed, devils are from a different universe, and this universe is not the same as the natural realm and its natural laws, it literally violates them,meaning they can’t be the same nature, and would gain acasualty due to being on a different system than the natural realm


Causality manip can still affect type 4
 
Energy negation/powernull & life manipulation: Life Stealing/Instant Death

Anti magic is anti-energy, it erases mana itself,mana is supernatural energy that makes its home inside living things, Mana is fundamental energy,being the origin of souls,souls include all aspects of someone,including thier mind,life and magic life itself carries mana to the point you are able to use that mana to make a spell in exchange for your life ,and anti magic is able to erase the mana in your life force,Such as erasing the life force of plants,and some of people
Click to expand...
Sure.
Death manip & existence eraser

Whatever zagred says comes true,working even on living beings, the size of the effect corresponds to the amount by which the amount of his magic exceeds theirs,

So while it didn’t work on yuno & asta ,if you have way less power,then he can straight up tell you to die,and disappear,(probably won’t be useful,but who knows)
Click to expand...
Hmm, I suppose.
Reality warping and conceptual manip type 2 & soul manip. Magic is the ability to overrule reality,forbidden magic interferes with the soul & the world itself,violating the natural laws of the world, allowing for the manipulation of concepts.

Vanessa has the power to manipulate fate, which includes manipulating causality and probability (already accepted)

her power is stated to manipulate natural laws, which means that what she manipulates are part of the world’s laws,Which is confirmed

Yet fate is a concept As Morris tells her that he can interfere with concepts in reference to why her powers are not working , Morris says that because he gained a devils power/forbidden magic it allowed him to manipulate concepts which is in reference to forbidden magic interfering with the world itself meaning that laws are concepts and should get conceptual manip from it 🗣️. . (If this isn’t enough,then should be changed to law manipulation for now )
Click to expand...
Seems legit.
AE2: Demons are magic itself, forbidden magic goes against the worlds laws
Click to expand...
Sure.

Everythng else I have no opinion on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Crimsonobu
With magic anything is possible! (Rezero, law manipulation and subjective reality addition to magic)
Replies
16
Views
3K
Celestial_Pegasus
Celestial_Pegasus
Mommyleona
  • Locked
Pre-Time Skip Black clover speed updates
2
Replies
50
Views
5K
Mommyleona
Mommyleona
King_Gorilla4002-8922
  • Locked
Fundamental aspects of Black Clover / Part 1 of 5 (Mana is a smurf 1-A)
3 4 5
Replies
182
Views
16K
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
King_Gorilla4002-8922
Fundamental aspects of Black Clover / Part 2/5? (Ki (vital energy and magical power)
Replies
24
Views
2K
SJ360playz
Robo432343
Marvel CM 1 Problems
4 5 6
Replies
233
Views
15K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Back
Top