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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

Hey everyone, I just made a thread to add a minor ability to a lot of Pokémon.

vsbattles.com

Self-Evident Bodily Weaponry for Many Pokémon

Many Pokémon very clearly have Bodily Weaponry but it's not on the pages. Even Scyther doesn't have the ability listed, even though it literally has scythe-like blades for forelimbs and naturally learns Slash. This thread's aim is to add Bodily Weaponry to every Pokémon that self-evidently has...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
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ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
I checked Bulbapedia, and that's not entirely correct (but it's not entirely wrong either. In Generation VIII, Soundproof was changed making the user not immune to their own sound-based moved; however, they still seem to be immune to their teammates' and their opponents' sound-based moves.
Click to expand...
I don't get what part of what I said was incorrect
 
Okay thanks for clarifying. I am still curious how come my strategy didn't work if I had to guess it is due to the absence of any way to both change the type of a status move and be immune status moves of that type in base scarlet and violet
 
Generally immunity abilities ignore effects that target the user, say, how Gholdengo isn't immune to its own Recover.
 
I mean I am looking at this from the fact electrify, ion deluge, and plasma fist have vanished after gen 8 or 7 meanwhile Bulbapedia says, "If Perish Song becomes an Electric-type move (i.e. due to Ion Deluge, Plasma Fists, or Galvanize), Pokémon with Volt Absorb, Lightning Rod, or Motor Drive are immune to it, and Perish Song causes the Abilities to activate accordingly. If Perish Song becomes a Water-type move (i.e. due to Liquid Voice), Pokémon with Water Absorb, Storm Drain, or Dry Skin are immune to it, and the Abilities will activate accordingly." and "Pokémon with Soundproof are no longer immune to their own moves, so if a Pokémon uses Perish Song, it will now gain a perish count even if it has Soundproof. However, other Pokémon with Soundproof are still immune to Perish Song." It never explains that perish song interacts with the type based immunities differently if the Pokémon using the modified perish song has the ability
 
Well, that's more so of a general semantic with status moves, Bulbapedia doesn't go too in-depth for this kind of stuff.
 
Oh no, the game semantics are often to the point, the history/talk pages often cross-link to Smogon's thread for testing directly that kind of stuff.
 
Well, it is neat for finding potential lore for some moves, as their appearances in the anime and manga often come in handy (case in point, all I laid out about Transform), plus I tend to use the Mystery Dungeon section to easily sort range stuff
 
Bobsican said:
Well, it is neat for finding potential lore for some moves, as their appearances in the anime and manga often come in handy (case in point, all I laid out about Transform), plus I tend to use the Mystery Dungeon section to easily sort range stuff
Click to expand...
Something that may be useful for you: In Pokemon Masters, Arc Suit Leon is capable of launching a move that have 700 base power.




Keep in mind he can also give himself 6 stages in Attack and Special Attack and guarantee crits in a single move before this.
 
I'm ignoring stuff from Masters as those generally pertain specific trained Pokemon (let alone trainer bonds often being involved), meaning that they aren't really standard for a verse-specific P&A's purposes.
 
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They are described as having very strong uncomfortable flavors, so I'd be led to believe that they simply pop their content into the opponent when taking a hit. Still outclassed by Rocky Helmet, however.
 
Bobsican said:
Right now I'm trying to make a verse-specific P&A page for moves and abilities. I'm getting tired of getting complaints whenever I just say moves or abilities in vs threads and I'm demanded to get that indexed somewhere, plus this also removes most NLF concerns for stuff like Transform, Imprison, Wonder Guard or Good as Gold.
Click to expand...
"Critical hits: Pressure Points, Forcefield and Statistics Amplification Negation ("Critical hits" are more formally regarded in Japanese as pressure points, which any attack can do. When a move hits in this manner, they do more damage than normal and can bypass forcefields such as Reflect, Light Screen, and Aurora Veil, as well as positive increases of the Durability of the target)"

What's the proof crits negating the effects of forcefields isn't Game Mechanics? The Japanese name being Pressure Points suggests it may be based on where/how the affected is hit. so why would something external be negated by where/how the attack's target was hit?
It may also be worth checking the original Japanese text for "A critical hit", but I'd be confident it's just something like "Hit a pressure point!".

"With multiple ways to hinder Pokémon, this section aims to clarify the status conditions that may be inflicted or removed by various moves and abilities. It is worth noting that they can stack."

Do you mean with volatile statuses? Like Confusion, Heal Block, Disable, etc.?

Personally, I'd always semi-supportively pondered the notion that the 5 main non-volatile status conditions (Burn, Poison, Paralysis, Asleep & Frozen.) could stack on non-Pokemon, & it's only Pokemon that can't have more than 1 of those 5 at once. But IDK if that's Game Mechanics or what. Do we have evidence for any side? Thoughts, all?

"Status Effect Inducement, Ice Manipulation (the one inflicted is encapsulated in ice, restraining their movement until it's broken by an attack taken or produced heat to thraw out of it)"

I assume this is for realism, as I can't think of any attack that ends the Frozen Status by "breaking" the ice rather than "melting" it due to being Fire-type.

"Puppet, Terrified​

Mind Manipulation (inflicted upon a sleeping target, the one involved is mind controlled, often to attack their own allies or waste their resources. Can also be used to prevent them from attacking and force them to forfeit by running away)"

Both those are inflicted primarily, if not exclusively upon Sleeping Targets? Also, where are they from?


(This is a partial response. I wanna go over stuff, but later.)
 
Imaginym said:
"Critical hits: Pressure Points, Forcefield and Statistics Amplification Negation ("Critical hits" are more formally regarded in Japanese as pressure points, which any attack can do. When a move hits in this manner, they do more damage than normal and can bypass forcefields such as Reflect, Light Screen, and Aurora Veil, as well as positive increases of the Durability of the target)"

What's the proof crits negating the effects of forcefields isn't Game Mechanics? The Japanese name being Pressure Points suggests it may be based on where/how the affected is hit. so why would something external be negated by where/how the attack's target was hit?
It may also be worth checking the original Japanese text for "A critical hit", but I'd be confident it's just something like "Hit a pressure point!".
Click to expand...
I'd think it's in the same way stat amps are bypassed, more specifically hitting pressure points, which are where the barriers don't cover, some anime portrayals do lean for this kind of moves being a passive barrier around the user, but they don't cover their whole body either.
Bulbapedia already provides a direct translation and quote for the term used since Gen 1 in every single core series game, but I'll be on the look for JP game footage just in case.

When one occurs, the game will display the message "A critical hit!" (Japanese: 急所に　当たった！ Hit a pressure point!) after the damage is dealt.
Click to expand...

Imaginym said:
"With multiple ways to hinder Pokémon, this section aims to clarify the status conditions that may be inflicted or removed by various moves and abilities. It is worth noting that they can stack."

Do you mean with volatile statuses? Like Confusion, Heal Block, Disable, etc.?

Personally, I'd always semi-supportively pondered the notion that the 5 main non-volatile status conditions (Burn, Poison, Paralysis, Asleep & Frozen.) could stack on non-Pokemon, & it's only Pokemon that can't have more than 1 of those 5 at once. But IDK if that's Game Mechanics or what. Do we have evidence for any side? Thoughts, all?
Click to expand...
In general, stuff like poisoning and freezing can stack in Mystery Dungeon, the TCG, and other pieces of media IIRC. Frankly this is just a game mechanic for balancing purposes, especially with earlier generations once having Toxic on nearly anything.

Imaginym said:
"Status Effect Inducement, Ice Manipulation (the one inflicted is encapsulated in ice, restraining their movement until it's broken by an attack taken or produced heat to thraw out of it)"

I assume this is for realism, as I can't think of any attack that ends the Frozen Status by "breaking" the ice rather than "melting" it due to being Fire-type.
Click to expand...
That's how it's often portrayed in non-game media, namely the ice breaking by an attack taken.

Imaginym said:

"Puppet, Terrified​

Mind Manipulation (inflicted upon a sleeping target, the one involved is mind controlled, often to attack their own allies or waste their resources. Can also be used to prevent them from attacking and force them to forfeit by running away)"

Both those are inflicted primarily, if not exclusively upon Sleeping Targets? Also, where are they from?
Click to expand...
Yes, those only apply on an already-sleeping target, and those come from Mystery Dungeon.

Please note that I'm still working on how to handle priority moves, so comments on stuff like Quick Attack can wait.
 
So, Pokemon Champions might matter depending on battle animations.

Z-A is an action RPG. & apparently, it's futuristic, but they're rebuilding the city to make it have "Wild Zones". Whole game in 1 city? Megas shown. Also, the Starter choices have me BAFFLED.
 
Alright so

-Pokemon Champions is coming which is amazing as long as we get a big selection of pokemon to use since that's basically an official version of smogoon in a way
Pokemon Z-A:
-Scarlet-violet level graphics but its reasonable enough i'd say, I mean as long as it loads normally
-Complete combat revamp. They basically chose the Xenoblade approach with the battles where you reposition and attack and it seems moves here don't have a number limit but rather have a recharge timer on them which is more accurate to how it is shown in anime, manga, ect.
-We might have a system similar to pokemon world championships in the anime with promotional matches and such
-wild zones now permeate the city
 
So I guess Z-A is actually set in the future, then? Wonder how much in the future and if we’ll see any XY characters outside of AZ.

I think I saw the inside of the Looker Bureau for a couple seconds, but admittedly it’s based on a very foggy memory of what that room looked like so maybe it was something entirely different. Also idk what the purpose of showing that building of all things would be in the first place.
 
legends.pokemon.com

Pokémon Legends: Z-A

Pokémon Legends: Z-A, a new adventure set within Lumiose City, will launch on Nintendo Switch systems in 2025.
legends.pokemon.com legends.pokemon.com

AZ​

"AZ is a man who stands over nine feet tall. He’s the owner of Hotel Z and claims to be three thousand years old. He quietly harbors a strong determination and will."

Anyone got the official Japanese site? May be useful to know his exact height, as Pokemon always uses meters.

Eternal Floette appearing as an NPC gives me hope that it'll be obtainable as a Gift Pokemon from A-Z, as opposed to being cut/unused content like in Gens 6 & 7.

However, it also has lore ramifications. The tech indicates close to modern-day, but EF left Z-A because of the Ultimate Weapon's use in the war that was, what, 3,000 years ago? Yet we see EF with A-Z. Those two reunited at the end of X & Y. Why this protagonist would get what X & Y's didn't, IDK. Then again, Sun & Moon's protagonists got Zygarde's Cells & Formes, lol.
Meaning unless this is some super advanced ancient civilization version of Lumiose that isn't actually so ancient, the modern tech levels combined with that means this likely happens after the ending of X & Y.

Ergo, Z-A is in the future, or in the present but some years have passed, lol.
Or it's an alternate universe.
 
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legends.pokemon.com

Pokémon Legends: Z-A

Pokémon Legends: Z-A, a new adventure set within Lumiose City, will launch on Nintendo Switch systems in 2025.
legends.pokemon.com legends.pokemon.com

eternal_flower_floette.png

Eternal Flower Floette​

This unusual Floette looks different from other members of her species and holds a black flower. She’s also said to have lived for three thousand years. She always accompanies AZ.
p13_02.jpg

This is surprising. Ogerpon seemed to be a single specimen species, & was monogenderedly female, yet it still got referred to with "it". Gender-neutral pronouns.
Here, EF is being referred to with female pronouns, indicating it's an individual.

Since Ogerpon & its human companion, the mask-maker were said to have come from a far-off land, IIRC, this may indicate that unlike EF, Ogerpon may not be the only one of its species; There may be a region where there are more Ogerpon wild.


I wonder about Jett & Vinnie.


"Zygarde is made up of a multitude of cell-like components, and it changes form depending on how many of these components have gathered together. Its brain is made up of the few existing Zygarde Cores, while the rest of its body is comprised of Zygarde Cells, which are far more plentiful. It seems to have taken a special interest in you... What could its connection to this story be?"

"This is Zygarde’s form when about 10 percent of its cells have gathered. It has sharp fangs and runs across the land at speeds greater than 60 miles per hour. When Zygarde needs to fight, its Cores call for the Cells scattered across the land to gather, and then Zygarde transforms into this form."

Range feat for Cell summoning/vocal range, I guess? The latter could be especially useful if it had any sound-based moves, lol.

"This is Zygarde’s form when about half its cells have gathered. It serves as the protector of the ecosystems that Pokémon live in, monitoring them to detect any abnormalities. It can change into an even more powerful form when battling those who threaten these ecosystems."

May not be new info, but Zygarde detects abnormalities in Pokemon ecosystems.

"This is Zygarde’s form when it’s at 100 percent. It uses its overwhelming power to suppress those who endanger the ecosystem. From the orifice on its chest, it radiates high-powered energy that can eliminate everything. Its four wings and its tail can freely change shape to play a variety of roles."

Orifice on its chest? The head/mouth-like part? 4 wings?

map_fullres.jpg


The map is neat. Sadly, I can't read Pokemon writing. I recall a site on the internet going over said language. If this is consistent, it may be decipherable, although it may not be consequential.
Perhaps most obvious is a Magikarp displaying a Pokedex feat where they USUALLY "never jump more than 7 feet". Since it's jumping out of water near a bridge/docks, to the height of a person, it's definitely jumping close to 5 or 6 or 7 feet. May be useful for Magikarp's Tier 10 & Low Tier 9 stuff, especially considering its mass.

We may also be being given a hint as to the difficulty scaling based on the birds. Top middle has no birds, indicating it's special. Top right has Fletchling, as does middle right. Bottom right has Fletchling & Fletchinder, bottom left has only Fletchinder, & middle left has Talonflame.

Even at the presumable full resolution of this map I've found, some details are hard to make out.

Top left has a pair with both Meowstic. Middle left has what looks like 2 trainers, 1 with a Staryu & 1 with a Hawlucha. Could just be flavor imageryW about battling.

What is that thing on the far left of Middle Left, next to the art with the close-up of a Swablu??

Heck, what's that thing next to Upper Right's Fletchling?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
I think I saw the inside of the Looker Bureau for a couple seconds, but admittedly it’s based on a very foggy memory of what that room looked like so maybe it was something entirely different. Also idk what the purpose of showing that building of all things would be in the first place.
Click to expand...
I double-checked. Unless there’s another room in XY’s Lumiose City with the same design, it’s absolutely the Looker Bureau as it’s literally 1-to-1 just with more stuff in it. Interestingly there’s also a photo of what might be an Espurr based on the colour, but it’s too low quality for me to say 100% sure and the shape is also kinda off for Espurr I think. However since the placement of everything is so similar I’d be very surprised if the game is set a super significant amount of time after XY, which means we’re likely seeing other XY characters.

As an aside I wonder if the Prism Tower still acts as a Gym, and if so what purpose that could serve in the game.
 
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Legends AZ's definitely taking an interesting approach to pokemon catching and fights but ngl I wish it played more like a refined version of Legends Arceus. I'm also guessing that the SVesque graphics are here to stay which is kind of a shame since it lacks a lot of charm imo but it still look really solid.

Honestly I'm looking forward more to Pokemon Champions. That has the potential to completely streamline competitive pokemon if they actually do more with it but other than that this pokemon presents felt like a nothing burger tbh
 
Imaginym said:
Re-posting.



The Official Pokemon Twitch Channel
Click to expand...

ZA is looking nice. Like that distance and position are a proper mechanic now (lol I imagine Focus Blast will be shot in a random direction). Still not feeling that "hook" that makes me feel the game is a must get, but still gonna give it a go. Still have to see how they fit a whole Pokemon adventure in a single city, even if Lumiose is obviously massive now (I mean, Pokemon games have you visiting all sorts of places and locations, so we have to see how the translate or at least make up for that feeling with a single big location).

Definitely we're getting new Megas, I think. I'm guessing there will be a Mega Evolution centered trailer during the year.

And holy crap, I'm so relieved that ZA is coming late this year. I was legitimately afraid they would release it in like... I dunno, March? And then announce Gen 10 in April, screwing over themselves with a rushed development again.

Pokemon Champions eh? Game Freak is gonna release their own Master Duel. Pretty unlikely, but hope Triple Battles are available, even if there's like 2 people playing (myself included).
 
TartaChocholate said:
ZA is looking nice. Like that distance and position are a proper mechanic now (lol I imagine Focus Blast will be shot in a random direction). Still not feeling that "hook" that makes me feel the game is a must get, but still gonna give it a go. Still have to see how they fit a whole Pokemon adventure in a single city, even if Lumiose is obviously massive now (I mean, Pokemon games have you visiting all sorts of places and locations, so we have to see how the translate or at least make up for that feeling with a single big location).

Definitely we're getting new Megas, I think. I'm guessing there will be a Mega Evolution centered trailer during the year.

And holy crap, I'm so relieved that ZA is coming late this year. I was legitimately afraid they would release it in like... I dunno, March? And then announce Gen 10 in April, screwing over themselves with a rushed development again.

Pokemon Champions eh? Game Freak is gonna release their own Master Duel. Pretty unlikely, but hope Triple Battles are available, even if there's like 2 people playing (myself included).
Click to expand...
You think they won't try to at least announce Generation 10 for the 30th Anniversary of Pokemon next year?

Triple Battles returning would be awesome.
 
Imaginym said:
You think they won't try to at least announce Generation 10 for the 30th Anniversary of Pokemon next year?

Triple Battles returning would be awesome.
Click to expand...
May be a foolish hope, but just let this year be the game for AZ like how 2022 should have been dedicated to Legends Arceus. They can tease Gen X in early 2026 for late 2026. Though I'd rather if they just said screw it and decided to ignore that deadline as much as they needed.
 
Why are we using Pokemon Masters for main continuity profiles now??? Its very obv not canon as a huge fanservicey crossover mobile game with its own plot and characters actively coming from separate continuities

Protags that dont have any NPC role in the story (unllike Red) are literally just placeholders for the player, and theres way too many variable/Pokemon to effectively make profiles for them from Game continuity alone. Theres no fixed pokemon or character for them.


Also wtf is this
"Note: Gloria's Endgame and Crown Tundra keys are noncanon; as Leon has still never lost a battle, she had never seen Calyrex before, and she had never faced Mustard at full power before as of Pokémon Masters."

We deadass saying the games DLC story isn't canon, but Pokemon Masters EX is??? What reason is there for it not being canon?
 
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Jinx666 said:
Why are we using Pokemon Masters for main continuity profiles now??? Its very obv not canon as a huge fanservicey crossover mobile game with its own plot and characters actively coming from separate continuities

Protags that dont have any NPC role in the story (unllike Red) are literally just placeholders for the player, and theres way too many variable/Pokemon to effectively make profiles for them from Game continuity alone. Theres no fixed pokemon or character for them.
Click to expand...
Haven’t I already explained to you why it’s canon already, or was that a different guy?

Also there are fixed Pokemon for them.

Masters doesn’t treat Crown Tundra as canon. At all. Nobody mentions the Galarian Star Tournament, Leon is treated as the one who found and helped Calyrex, Leon still doesn’t percieve Hop as a rival where he does by the postgame, Peony was erased from canon, and so on.
 
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Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Haven’t I already explained to you why it’s canon already, or was that a different guy?

Also there are fixed Pokemon for them.
Click to expand...
No you havent, but i dont need you to cause its very obvious Masters EX is NOT canon, given all of the separate plots. Feels like its just a case to try and Maximise her stats and give her wild scaling to everyone else.
Its quite literally just a crossover mobile game cash grab. You're better off making separate profiles for Masters EX representations of characters.

There are barey any fixed Pokemon, and even then we dont know the specifics of those mons like Abilities, moves etc.

Also you're saying Masters EX is canon but Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra isnt??
 
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