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[STAFF NEEDED] Reinstating Sailor Moon Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation standing

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DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm no expert on conceptual manipulation, but I do agree with other ability additions beyond it being just reality warping.
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I know you're not an expert on this specific ability, but would you agree that the OP's proposal matches the requirements written on the Conceptual page, though from a glance?
 
@HenshinIntervention you mean the fact that none of the explanation the page has provided remotely explained how star seeds are literal concepts nor do they have literal data/information that's a fundamental building block of existence? I can do the same thing here by saying you're just throwing random text and quoting the page as evidence that it is either abilities without showing the concrete evidence as such beyond just "star seeds can make all things in the world", which isn't enough for either abilities.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@HenshinIntervention you mean the fact that none of the explanation the page has provided remotely explained how star seeds are literal concepts nor do they have literal data/information that's a fundamental building block of existence? I can do the same thing here by saying you're just throwing random text and quoting the page as evidence that it is either abilities without showing the concrete evidence as such beyond just "star seeds can make all things in the world", which isn't enough for either abilities.
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Do you even hear yourself? No one is throwing around random text. That’s an absolutely ridiculous and unfair accusation.

What do you think a metaphysical aspect that gives everything its form is?

We don’t need the series to hold people’s hands and say, “star seeds are concepts” like it’s a kindergarten class when star seeds fit the very academic definition of concepts and adherence to to the wiki’s own standards.

The wiki has on many occasions indexed abilities as x and y if they fit the standards of x and y.

“They’re not called concepts so they can’t be indexed as concepts” is a terrible argument.

That’s like saying A = 3 and then I prove B = 3 and then say A = B and your counter argument is that B cannot equal A because B isn’t called A.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@HenshinIntervention you mean the fact that none of the explanation the page has provided remotely explained how star seeds are literal concepts nor do they have literal data/information that's a fundamental building block of existence? I can do the same thing here by saying you're just throwing random text and quoting the page as evidence that it is either abilities without showing the concrete evidence as such beyond just "star seeds can make all things in the world", which isn't enough for either abilities.
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This is dishonest and to be completely honest I don't think this deserves a refute because there's nothing to refute here at all. Like you're basically asking me to repeat myself and make this CRT more confusing than it has to be.
 
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Iamunanimousinthat said:
What part of, i accidently mixed up the numbers in the OP do you not understand?. The agreed with the reasonings I gave to support type 2 which i had mistakenly called type 1 at the time.
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I want you to read, their "acceptance" again, and come back and tell me this again...
 
OP will input votes as they come in and if they don't I'll remind them personally. For now there needs to be zero derailment because we're waiting for decision by Staff on the Proposals. You guys can take this out of the thread.
 
ByAsura said:
Anyway, I can agree to at least Type 1 information manipulation for the Star Seeds. Won't comment on the rest.
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Hello, can you please confirm something for me?

In the original OP, I argued for Type 2 information manipulation, but mistakenly written it as Type 1.

To clear up any confusion can you please specify if you meant Type 1 information Manipulation which is described as:

  1. Knowledge: These characters can manipulate information as the medium of knowledge as opposed to just manipulating what a specific person knows, which would be considered Mind Manipulation. Characters with this ability can, for example, destroy information on a subject and by that make it inherently unknowable. Other examples of uses would be to prevent information from leaving an area, making it so that those outside can't gain knowledge of what is happening inside, or altering information to change what people know about the subject into something else.

Or did you mean Type 2 information Manipulation which I referenced in the OP with bolded:

  1. Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information that serves as a fundamental building block of reality. This information is shown to compose reality similar to how data underlies a video game world, code defines the rules of a simulation or in a fashion equally fundamental to these examples. This may allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. The ability can come on many levels of potency. The possible uses range from being the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities to rewriting information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.
 
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
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Basically all the conclusion needs to do is clarify what exactly are Star Seeds based on this system, because they clearly are not mind, body or soul
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
Bump.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
bump
 
Bump
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
Following 👀
 
Bump
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also for prosperity, from the Metaphysical page:

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.
Click to expand...
 
Agnaa said:
@Elizhaa @Planck69 @Celestial_Pegasus

@Damage3245 @Maverick_Zero_X @LephyrTheRevanchist

Help with resolving this thread would be appreciated.
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At this point, all the information has already been laid out and addressed. The only thing left to do is to determine what "Metaphysical Aspect" (the page description for these is provided right above) Star Seeds qualify for. The evidence for them not being Mind, body or soul has already been provided, and the arguments for them being Concepts and/or Information have also been posted.
 
Ngl, if we follow with the the logic X Manipulation is closest power that fit Y then we should agree with this starseed feat having Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, Information Manipulation Type 2, Plot Manipulation, Reality Warping, Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, etc......., like all they also somewhat fit these kind of feats and is closet we can find

Nah, i disagree with these chain of thought, just because something is somewhat metaphysical, doesn't mean it must be either concept or information, metaphysical is a very broad term
 
My decision remains that it is only 1 fundamental aspect, not multiple, and I find information type 2 the closest, despite having no direct implication that it is information but fits the bill the closest due to what Starseed does.

That's why I'm still neutral with it being conceptual
 
Vietthai96 said:
Nah, i disagree with these chain of thought, just because something is somewhat metaphysical, doesn't mean it must be either concept or information, metaphysical is a very broad term
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You are acting like concepts or informations(or any other metaphysical aspect) are the same for every verse in fiction when we know that most of the time they are different from verse to verse even tho they have the same type on the wiki.

Power equalization based on similarities between them is the basis of the wiki.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Ngl, if we follow with the the logic X Manipulation is closest power that fit Y then we should agree with this starseed feat having Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, Information Manipulation Type 2, Plot Manipulation, Reality Warping, Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, etc......., like all they also somewhat fit these kind of feats and is closet we can find

Nah, i disagree with these chain of thought, just because something is somewhat metaphysical, doesn't mean it must be either concept or information, metaphysical is a very broad term
Click to expand...
Since it's metaphysical, would you say just to ignore it unless the verse shows more evidence that it's either info2 or conceptual?
 
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