Acheron vs Yhwach

[Johner2133451]

The Corruption itself isnt a "hax" by itself here(even though it can be but it isnt due how this corruption works). There is no "death manip" here. Just poison that erodes souls and thus it has the "death manip" subtexts to it and If corruptions only powers is to poison/erode soul she resists it.
What i meant was if a character resists reality manipulation and if its opponent uses casuality manipulation through reality manip it will resist the that casuality manip even if they dont resist the casuality manip themselfs

Reality and causality warp are two different things

 

[Johner2133451]

no enhanced invisibility does not mean layered invisibility and you have to make a CRT for layers

paralysis is a useless ability that can be bypassed/resisted very easily

I already asked Arc who is responsible of making bleach pages and he does confirmed it is layered in the context of invisibility

Post in thread 'BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion'

Jan 14, 2025

Yes

• Arc7Kuroi

How so paralysis can be overcome if you dont have any resists to it?

 

[DrakerX]

Reality and causality warp are two different things

What they are saying is that haxes can be derivated by other completely different haxes. In the example presented by them, a Causality Manipulation that is specifically performed through Reality Manipulation will fall under Reality Manipulation, with the Causality Manipulation being how that hax is applied and as such a sub-effect of it. Resisting Reality Manipulation will be enough to resist a Causality Manipulation that relies on Reality Warping.
To make another example, a Existence Erasure that works through Reality Warping or Space-time Manipulation can be resisted by an individual that just resist Reality Warping/Space-time Manipulation without Existence Erasure being listed between their resistence.
From what I am understanding of this match (I have no intention to read all this pages), in the case of Yhwach some of his haxes works by affecting the soul of his opponent. As such, even very different haxes (like in this case Poison Manipulation/Death Manipulation that from what I am understanding works by eroding the soul of the opponent) can be resisted by someone that resist Soul Manipulation, because as I explained before this haxes are directly sub-effects of the main ability that is Soul Manipulation (they are performed by eroding soul and such). There are some exception and nuance (more often than not haxes are more complicated than what the profiles explain), but in this specific case the soul of Acheron is Conceptual/1-A, so any of the hax that works by affecting her soul will be useless overall since he can't interact with it in the first place.
I personally think this is a stomp for Acheron and I have no interest in participating too much in this discussion, I just wanted to explain this and that's all, so I'm dipping out.

 

[Vietthai96]

In the example presented by them, a Causality Manipulation that is specifically performed through Reality Manipulation will fall under Reality Manipulation, with the Causality Manipulation being how that hax is applied and as such a sub-effect of it. Resisting Reality Manipulation will be enough to resist a Causality Manipulation that relies on Reality Warping

No, not really, Reality Warping is just a blanket ability, similar to other power, you could resist RW, but if that RW is something that not RW + Causality hax then you still get haxed since you not resist the same RW. This applies to other hax as well

Anyway, Honkaiverse soul is both concept type 1 and information type 2,

 

[Hellscream]

i don't care about this match, it's going to be removed

 

[Vietthai96]

it will never getting added in the first place to get removed in the future

 

[DrakerX]

No, not really, Reality Warping is just a blanket ability, similar to other power, you could resist RW, but if that RW is something that not RW + Causality hax then you still get haxed since you not resist the same RW. This applies to other hax as well

Anyway, Honkaiverse soul is both concept type 1 and information type 2,

I know I said I would dip out, but my dumb brain is telling me to reply at least to this. Yeah, Reality Warping is a wide ability so it isn't the best to use for an example like this. But what I mean are specifically abilities that works by altering the reality rather than other aspects. Normally, Causality Manipulation would work by altering the sequence of cause and effect, but if the Causality Manipulation is specifically done by altering reality rather than the sequence of causality (example pretty rare, but could happen, don't know if there are characters that do it though) than this specific Causality Manipulation would be a subset of the Reality Warping and as such a strong resistence to Reality Warping would theoretically be able to resist it.
For a more practical example, Infinity Ultron have Transmutation and EE that are direct effects of his Reality Warping, same for Bill Cipher (or at least it was, with the BoB things might have changed but Idk) so resistence the macro-hax would give you resistence to it's subsets hax. So yes, Reality Warping can be an umbrella term, but in some cases it can be the basis for other haxes in a much more direct way. Don't know if I am clear enough.
But again, RW is not the best example becuause of it's nature as an umbrella term. A much more clear example is the on in this specific match, were Poison/Death Manipulation are direct conseguences of the Soul Manipulation because they work by affecting it. Again, there is a lot of nuances in this cases, so matches like this are almost always a case by case.
But yes, all this discussion aren't that important given the nature of the soul in Honkai and such.
Now I am really dipping before I start yapping again.

 

[Mickey1940]

does Acheron resist X Axis?

cuz X axis just ignores everything in its way, but it's not Existence Erasure, which Acheron does resist

 

[Voidnether]

does Acheron resist X Axis?

cuz X axis just ignores everything in its way, but it's not Existence Erasure, which Acheron does resist

She's immeasurable, no?
Ignores everything means that it ignores distance, supposedly the mechanism is treated as instantaneous — She also resists them anyways, or well she could also do the same since Acheron does dimensional slash afaik

 

[Mickey1940]

She's immeasurable, no?
Ignores everything means that it ignores distance, supposedly the mechanism is treated as instantaneous — She also resists them anyways, or well she could also do the same since Acheron does dimensional slash afaik

but speed is equalized

 

[Shar122]

it will never getting added in the first place to get removed in the future

~~pretty sure you said this cuz you Don't like my wanking lmaoo~~

 

[Voidnether]

but speed is equalized

Yeah, but Yhwach having wincon through that despite Acheron should be faster than that.. Isn't something that's a good wincon at most, the interval is still infinite too so there's that (While acheron's interval is immeasurable, I think you would understand these problems with speed equalization if you happen to see some jjba matchups)

 

[Mickey1940]

Yeah, but Yhwach having wincon through that despite Acheron should be faster than that.. Isn't something that's a good wincon at most, the interval is still infinite too so there's that (While acheron's interval is immeasurable, I think you would understand these problems with speed equalization if you happen to see some jjba matchups)

yeah if speed is equalized to Acheron's level X Axis is useless, and if speed is equalized to Yhwach's level X Axis is useful

so idk what to think rn lmao

 

[Voidnether]

yeah if speed is equalized to Acheron's level X Axis is useless, and if speed is equalized to Yhwach's level X Axis is useful

so idk what to think rn lmao

It's equalized to yhwach's level but X axis still wouldn't be useful since you know.. Acheron's interval is immeasurable and yhwach isn't (infinite through x axis) That's why

 

[Mickey1940]

It's equalized to yhwach's level but X axis still wouldn't be useful since you know.. Acheron's interval is immeasurable and yhwach isn't (infinite through x axis) That's why

wdym Acheron's interval is immesurable

if speed is equalized speed is equalized

 

[helello100]

I like to remind to the thread maker that it still says "Acheron at her peak" so she starts the fight with her sword out

 

[Voidnether]

wdym Acheron's interval is immesurable

if speed is equalized speed is equalized

So in that case acheron could react to X axis then

 

[Mickey1940]

So in that case acheron could react to X axis then

but then you also said

It's equalized to yhwach's level

so they're both ftl

so now Acheron can't react to X axis?

 

[Voidnether]

but then you also said

so they're both ftl

so now Acheron can't react to X axis?

If interval is equalized, it would mean X axis is ftl instead of infinite..

 

[Hasty12345]

How is this 4 pages? Yhwach gets obliterated.

 

[Shar122]

I like to remind to the thread maker that it still says "Acheron at her peak" so she starts the fight with her sword out

Should I change it to base Acheron? To make it more fair?

 

[helello100]

Should I change it to base Acheron? To make it more fair?

The thread is dead anyway. Not the mention due to Acheron being immesurable normally this wont get added whoever wins. I dont wanna waste time for a thread that isnt even gonna show in the profiles anymore. It has 4 pages already