Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[MinatoSparkle]

The problem with Uzuhiko is the Two times it was used by Boruto, no one can accurately determine the amount of energy he took. What exactly is the limit of the jutsu? How much of the centrifugal Force energy is he really able to take? What is the maximum output of Uzuhiko?

The theoretical output has been calced according to the info available?

it doesnt even aid in ap, boruto should just get l5b (sodomized code) higher with rasengan variants

Uhhhh idk about that

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The theoretical output has been calced according to the info available?

except it misinterprets and assumes all of it is converted to joules, something that's never implied whatsoever
on top of counter evidence against that

The theoretical output has been calced according to the info available?

Uhhhh idk about that

why not? it's not like he has established multipliers so naming jutsus wont really be useful

 

[Iabihs]

i mean, we should probably wait , more for uzuhiko again lmao, best to just not use it for anything, what if it caps the verse? what if its truly limitless potential?
Hell what if Boruto says some shit about how taking the energy slows down the earth, so hes small-country level at best or something lmao

 

[Nierre]

if we take the interpretation that the risidual effect of uzuhiko is the energy spinning inside of you like boruto says, then yeah it would be quite useless for his ap and only be strong on the initial hit cuz hes mixing his own chakra as well

i have this opinion too tbh

My hot take opinion was that the Uzuhiko is as strong as the Rasengan itself (but he can obviously make it stronger the more he charges it as we saw against Hidari) and what he uses from the earth is what we see that causes the residual effects, I used the Boruto Database as evidence cause it says "in addition to the damage a standard Rasengan causes, it destroys the target's sense of balance" etc etc. Which to me reads, Uzuhiko is as strong as his Rasengan, but what he uses from the Earth are the effects we see within Code.

I argued this with Net and Arc (which we ended up agreeing to disagree), but I argued that Code took the Rasengan itself with little to no damage, whereas Hidari got shredded by his Rasengan so Code's Durability > Hidari's Durability. But the argument against that was that Boruto was holding back against Code and not against Hidari (which is true). But while we agreed that yes, he was holding back in killing Code, I don't think that means he was pulling his punches or whatever. Like Naruto vs Sasuke at the end of the manga, Naruto stops holding back near the end of the fight but he's obviously not fighting to kill Sasuke.

 

[Samlex1234]

The theoretical output has been calced according to the info available?

Uhhhh idk about that

And what is this theoretical output?

 

[Iabihs]

i have this opinion too tbh

My hot take opinion was that the Uzuhiko is as strong as the Rasengan itself (but he can obviously make it stronger the more he charges it as we saw against Hidari) and what he uses from the earth is what we see that causes the residual effects, I used the Boruto Database as evidence cause it says "in addition to the damage a standard Rasengan causes, it destroys the target's sense of balance" etc etc. Which to me reads, Uzuhiko is as strong as his Rasengan, but what he uses from the Earth are the effects we see within Code.

I argued this with Net and Arc (which we ended up agreeing to disagree), but I argued that Code took the Rasengan itself with little to no damage, whereas Hidari got shredded by his Rasengan so Code's Durability > Hidari's Durability. But the argument against that was that Boruto was holding back against Code and not against Hidari (which is true). But while we agreed that yes, he was holding back in killing Code, I don't think that means he was pulling his punches or whatever. Like Naruto vs Sasuke at the end of the manga, Naruto stops holding back near the end of the fight but he's obviously not fighting to kill Sasuke.

Thank you Nierre my Socially afraid ass deleted the Reply cuz of Fear

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

i have this opinion too tbh

My hot take opinion was that the Uzuhiko is as strong as the Rasengan itself (but he can obviously make it stronger the more he charges it as we saw against Hidari) and what he uses from the earth is what we see that causes the residual effects, I used the Boruto Database as evidence cause it says "in addition to the damage a standard Rasengan causes, it destroys the target's sense of balance" etc etc. Which to me reads, Uzuhiko is as strong as his Rasengan, but what he uses from the Earth are the effects we see within Code.

I argued this with Net and Arc (which we ended up agreeing to disagree), but I argued that Code took the Rasengan itself with little to no damage, whereas Hidari got shredded by his Rasengan so Code's Durability > Hidari's Durability. But the argument against that was that Boruto was holding back against Code and not against Hidari (which is true). But while we agreed that yes, he was holding back in killing Code, I don't think that means he was pulling his punches or whatever. Like Naruto vs Sasuke at the end of the manga, Naruto stops holding back near the end of the fight but he's obviously not fighting to kill Sasuke.

you get it Nierre


honestly hidari is kinda fodder towards them, cuz boruto and sarada were both ganging up on him and abusing him horribly (hidari has no physical stat feats against them only stalemated an uncharged uzuhiko) so no one can really make the argument that his ap got stronger from a more charged version of the uzuhiko because they were already horribly abusing him, the better interpretation is that it has more volume and greater levels of the dura neg

 

[Samlex1234]

you get it Nierre


honestly hidari is kinda fodder towards them, cuz boruto and sarada were both ganging up on him and abusing him horribly (hidari has no physical stat feats against them only stalemated an uncharged uzuhiko) so no one can really make the argument that his ap got stronger from a more charged version of the uzuhiko because they were already horribly abusing him, the better interpretation is that it has more volume and greater levels of the dura neg

Hidari is so fodder, I pray they make the others worthwhile honestly.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

ofc he is, he's a version of sasuke after all

 

[Nierre]

ofc he is, he's a version of sasuke after all

There's no dislike button so

 

[Samlex1234]

ofc he is, he's a version of sasuke after all

I can tell you for a fact that dude ain't a clone of Sasuke Uchiha, he is literally the dumbest in the group. Heck even Ryu is smarter than him.


This is my Goat

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

w glaze, cant even argue against it

 

[Nierre]

I can tell you for a fact that dude ain't a clone of Sasuke Uchiha, he is literally the dumbest in the group. Heck even Ryu is smarter than him.


This is my Goat

lmaoo "Even Ryu"

This is true though, why is Hidari so dumb

 

[Iabihs]

lmaoo "Even Ryu"

This is true though, why is Hidari so dumb

Hes like dumbfounded at everything, its like hes 10

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I hope SM Mitsuki shows something other than Snake Lightning & Snake Clones tbh.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

except it misinterprets and assumes all of it is converted to joules, something that's never implied whatsoever
on top of counter evidence against that

If u say so, I haven't looked deep into it

why not? it's not like he has established multipliers so naming jutsus wont really be useful

I mean the idea that Uzuhiko isn't stronger than a regular Rasengan

And what is this theoretical output?

The one Arc calculated

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I mean the idea that Uzuhiko isn't stronger than a regular Rasengan

I mean uncharged uzuhiko would retain the same ap as a normal rasengan

Charged Ones would likely be as strong as Massive Rasengans

He could have let’s say, a note saying negates conventional durability with Uzuhiko but that’s best for the hax section

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Jura should just scale above the Uzuhiko given that it's heavily implied Boruto has no chance against him. At least a likely rating I feel would be warranted when his profile exists

 

[Godernet]

^this

tbh I'd be very shocked if we didn't have a couple of GTs above Max Output Uzuhiko before we even get to Boruto vs Kawaki (including Isshiki and BM Nard hopefully)

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Jura should just scale above the Uzuhiko given that it's heavily implied Boruto has no chance against him. At least a likely rating I feel would be warranted when his profile exists

The fully-charged Uzuhiko?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Jura can blitz and run circles around boruto before his eyes can register what the hell is happening that definitely is not gaining him any new ratings

we wont give characters spatial dura neg immunity if they were to be stated above shippuden kakashi, the same rule applies here

 

[Nierre]

Don't agree with scaling Jura about FP Uzuhiko until we see more with Jura. Jura could be far faster than Boruto, or have abilities that circumvent Uzuhiko as a whole (Flight, for example).

(Although, I wouldn't be surprised that he does scale above FP Uzuhiko. For now though, I think we should wait)

 

[Samlex1234]

The one Arc calculated

The calculation ARC provided considers the kinetic energy of Earth’s spin around its axis over 24 hours and its orbit around the Sun over 365 days. These energies are constant and persistent and will remain present for billions of years to come. However based on arc calc, while Boruto can draw as much or as little energy as he wants from these sources, we encounter a key problem: if these energies are finite, then what happens when Boruto uses a significant portion of them in one fight?

To clarify with the numbers provided:

• Earth’s rotational kinetic energy (KE):2.138e29 J
• Earth’s orbital kinetic energy (KE):2.646e33

If Boruto used all of Earth’s rotational KE in a battle against Code, then logically, the rotational KE would be depleted. How, then, would Uzuhiko work in subsequent battles? For example, if Boruto later wanted to use part of the rotational energy in a fight against Hidari, where would that energy come from if he had already used it up in the previous fight? Similarly, if Boruto used half of the Earth’s orbital KE in one battle, he would only have the remaining half available for future uses. Hope you are seeing the logic. This creates a contradiction unless we accept the conclusion that the energy source for Uzuhiko is both constant and effectively limitless:

• Constant: The energy is always present, as planetary spin and orbit are ongoing processes.

• Limitless: The energy replenishes continuously, allowing Boruto to tap into it at any time without exhausting it.

Now, if we take the concept further:

• If Uzuhiko allows Boruto to draw orbital KE repeatedly, how much can he draw in total? Is there a cap e.g., half, the full orbital KE, or an absurd amount like 20x, 500x, or even 1 million times Earth’s orbital KE ()?

Thus, Without addressing these questions, any claim about the total energy Uzuhiko can access becomes invalid because it doesn’t align with the fundamental nature of the energy source.
Ultimately, the only plausible conclusion is that Uzuhiko taps into a perpetual and replenishable energy source, making it nearly limitless. If we don't accept this implication then we might as well throw the whole thing away.

 

[Samlex1234]

Jura should just scale above the Uzuhiko given that it's heavily implied Boruto has no chance against him. At least a likely rating I feel would be warranted when his profile exists

When you say maximum Uzuhiko what does that even mean?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Don't agree with scaling Jura about FP Uzuhiko until we see more with Jura. Jura could be far faster than Boruto, or have abilities that circumvent Uzuhiko as a whole (Flight, for example).

(Although, I wouldn't be surprised that he does scale above FP Uzuhiko. For now though, I think we should wait)

kinda funny to imagine boruto and sarada coming together to do a coop attack like naruto and sasuke to kill jura like done to juubito

and the jutsu ends up being the hyped up fp uzuhiko

 

[Samlex1234]

The calculation ARC provided considers the kinetic energy of Earth’s spin around its axis over 24 hours and its orbit around the Sun over 365 days. These energies are constant and persistent and will remain present for billions of years to come. However based on arc calc, while Boruto can draw as much or as little energy as he wants from these sources, we encounter a key problem: if these energies are finite, then what happens when Boruto uses a significant portion of them in one fight?

To clarify with the numbers provided:

• Earth’s rotational kinetic energy (KE):2.138e29 J
• Earth’s orbital kinetic energy (KE):2.646e33

If Boruto used all of Earth’s rotational KE in a battle against Code, then logically, the rotational KE would be depleted. How, then, would Uzuhiko work in subsequent battles? For example, if Boruto later wanted to use part of the rotational energy in a fight against Hidari, where would that energy come from if he had already used it up in the previous fight? Similarly, if Boruto used half of the Earth’s orbital KE in one battle, he would only have the remaining half available for future uses. Hope you are seeing the logic. This creates a contradiction unless we accept the conclusion that the energy source for Uzuhiko is both constant and effectively limitless:

• Constant: The energy is always present, as planetary spin and orbit are ongoing processes.

• Limitless: The energy replenishes continuously, allowing Boruto to tap into it at any time without exhausting it.

Now, if we take the concept further:

• If Uzuhiko allows Boruto to draw orbital KE repeatedly, how much can he draw in total? Is there a cap e.g., half, the full orbital KE, or an absurd amount like 20x, 500x, or even 1 million times Earth’s orbital KE ()?

Thus, Without addressing these questions, any claim about the total energy Uzuhiko can access becomes invalid because it doesn’t align with the fundamental nature of the energy source.
Ultimately, the only plausible conclusion is that Uzuhiko taps into a perpetual and replenishable energy source, making it nearly limitless. If we don't accept this implication then we might as well throw the whole thing away.

For anyone that doesn't want to read my long epistle. Quick summary,

This is the current calc for Maximum output for Uzhiko by Arc

Spiral Lad yield = 2.646e33 J

This energy is the orbital and Rotational KE energy that is generated over a Year however it is always constant. If we all agree that boruto can use this energy in his maximum output for Uzuhiko, what will he use for another Uzuhiko when he finishes this energy?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Jura can blitz and run circles around boruto before his eyes can register what the hell is happening that definitely is not gaining him any new ratings

we wont give characters spatial dura neg immunity if they were to be stated above shippuden kakashi, the same rule applies here

It's more than that tho, there's countless futures that Jura dog walks, so just by sheer probability, it is likely that in at least one of them, Jura tanks or clashes with a high charged Uzuhiko. And I'm sure Koji has considered stalling to allow Boruto to full charge, and if he thought that gave them good odds, he'd probably mention that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

When you say maximum Uzuhiko what does that even mean?

My calc.

For anyone that doesn't want to read my long epistle. Quick summary,

This is the current calc for Maximum output for Uzhiko by Arc

Spiral Lad yield = 2.646e33 J

This energy is the orbital and Rotational KE energy that is generated over a Year however it is always constant. If we all agree that boruto can use this energy in his maximum output for Uzuhiko, what will he use for another Uzuhiko when he finishes this energy?

If you accept your interpretation, that means he must be using less than 10^33 joules by a significant amount.

 

[Samlex1234]

My calc.


If you accept your interpretation, that means he must be using less than 10^33 joules by a significant amount.

Then tell me how many of these is he able to use before he runs out? 6 times, 4 times or 2 times also when he runs out does that mean the Orbit and rotation of the earth are done?

Edit
By the way, I'm not the one who put the limit on how much energy he can draw, you did that. You told us the limit is 10^33 joules.

So I'm asking when he draws out this energy for a maximum Uzuhiko, where will he get the energy for the next Uzuhiko from? Or is it done is that the end of Uzuhiko, does he have to wait another year (hopefully the planet will not be in the sun by then)?

 

[Godernet]

When you say maximum Uzuhiko what does that even mean?

Pretty sure he's just talking about Uzuhiko at Full Power, which Bort just calls Maximum Output

 

[Samlex1234]

Pretty sure he's just talking about Uzuhiko at Full Power, which Bort just calls Maximum Output

I know this, my question is what exactly is the maximum output of Uzuhiko?

Edit
If you say the full power is 10^33 joule, then the follow-up question would be why? Is it because Boruto exhausted the KE, and how long would he have to wait again to use Uzuhiko again ?

 

[Godernet]

I know this, my question is what exactly is the maximum output of Uzuhiko?

there is no definitive answer to that rn

Arc's calc gave us a value for Uzuhiko in general that utilized what we currently know Uzuhiko is based on (centrifugal and rotational force) to assign it a value (600 Zettatons).

Edit
If you say the full power is 10^33 joule, then the follow-up question would be why? Is it because Boruto exhausted the KE, and how long would he have to wait again to use Uzuhiko again ?

The site usually doesn't grant charitability if there's no sound logic that beats out the other interpretations, for the sake of indexing, that value was assigned to Uzuhiko at its strongest, aka Maximum Output Uzuhiko.

This was partially due to where we currently scale the characters and based on our current understanding of Uzuhiko, in that it's only comprised of Boruto's chakra + the Planet's rotational and centrifugal energy, meaning that its highest output being at least the full yield of said energy is probably the least assumptive and most consistent route to take until more information is presented, barring arguments like "Uzuhiko doesn't use the planet chakra in its AP", which ends up being a completely different topic from just assigning a value to a jutsu.

If we get more information that makes it seem like Uzuhiko is much more than what we were initially told, then we'll just update accordingly.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It's kinda crazy how important this statement is for scaling but no one seems to talk about it

 

[Nierre]

It's kinda crazy how important this statement is for scaling but no one seems to talk about it

how relevant would this be in scaling

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Uzuhiko tethers the opponent to that rotational energy. Boruto doesn’t steal it. That’s antithetical to his entire character, where he’s trying to find ways to fight against people who steal energy from the planet. So he’s not taking away from the planet to empower his own attacks, he’s basically enabling the planet to “punch” the enemy. He directs that energy at the opponent without stealing from the planet. He shares with and helps the planet fight back, the villains take from the planet and give nothing.

Net actually pioneered this take and gave a much better explanation in one of my Uzuhiko threads.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

how relevant would this be in scaling

Basically means that summons are always gonna be relevant no matter how strong you get cause you can amp your summons and that generally users will somewhat scale to their summons (with exceptions). There's also the fact that it makes some strange feats make more sense like the Rashomon Gates that redirected a Nine Tails Bijuudama being dented by P1 Kiba, Nagato's summons being able to combat KCM Naruto, and Gamabunta being able to temporarily restrain Kurama.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It's more than that tho, there's countless futures that Jura dog walks, so just by sheer probability, it is likely that in at least one of them, Jura tanks or clashes with a high charged Uzuhiko. And I'm sure Koji has considered stalling to allow Boruto to full charge, and if he thought that gave them good odds, he'd probably mention that.

“I’m gonna use a hypothetical possibility to scale the real deal”


There’s a possibility where Jura nuked a galaxy with his fart, you can’t use it because it’s not provable for the current Jura, all of it is relying on poor wishful thinking
With Regards to foreseeing Boruto’s defeat, we outright see him get speed blitzed, that is a very powerful wincon for Jura, or he may have something similar to Kamui that bypasses it and makes it entirely useless
Jura could also have a ninjutsu he doesn’t come close to scaling to that hard counters uzuhiko

All of it is very strictly context dependent especially for a tier jump of this magnitude would likely require even greater amounts of irrefutability in an argument, you can’t arbitrarily assign a tier like so for a character who’s full arsenal isn’t seen on top of currently existing wincons

 

[karo_senpaii]

“I’m gonna use a hypothetical possibility to scale the real deal”


There’s a possibility where Jura nuked a galaxy with his fart, you can’t use it because it’s not provable for the current Jura, all of it is relying on poor wishful thinking
With Regards to foreseeing Boruto’s defeat, we outright see him get speed blitzed, that is a very powerful wincon for Jura, or he may have something similar to Kamui that bypasses it and makes it entirely useless
Jura could also have a ninjutsu he doesn’t come close to scaling to that hard counters uzuhiko

All of it is very strictly context dependent especially for a tier jump of this magnitude would likely require even greater amounts of irrefutability in an argument, you can’t arbitrarily assign a tier like so for a character who’s full arsenal isn’t seen on top of currently existing wincons

Not that I fully agree with arc but your analogy is really different from what he said. Possiblities depend on actions. You have to tie a specific action that will 99% happen for jura to (can't believe I'm saying this) fart a galaxy. Considering there is literally nothing in the entire media that would even slightly denote that then your analogy is whack.

On the other hand boruto using uzuhiko directly on jura is an actual possibility. I'm pretty sure you believe prescience sees countless timelines. Boruto is dead to jura is every single one except this. While the wiki doesn't take countless as truly infinite it doesn't change the fact that countless is a really large number into 2B. If boruto chances of even Landing uzuhiko is very low there would still be a chance of it landing in one of the countless timelines kinda like end game type shit where they beat Thanos 1 out of 1million+ times. But yet koji says there is no timeline that he wins. That means there is possibly a timeline where boruto lands uzuhiko and jura tanks it.

Hence the "likely or possibly".

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Not that I fully agree with arc but your analogy is really different from what he said. Possiblities depend on actions. You have to tie a specific action that will 99% happen for jura to (can't believe I'm saying this) fart a galaxy. Considering there is literally nothing in the entire media that would even slightly denote that then your analogy is whack.

On the other hand boruto using uzuhiko directly on jura is an actual possibility. I'm pretty sure you believe prescience sees countless timelines. Boruto is dead to jura is every single one except this. While the wiki doesn't take countless as truly infinite it doesn't change the fact that countless is a really large number into 2B. If boruto chances of even Landing uzuhiko is very low there would still be a chance of it landing in one of the countless timelines kinda like end game type shit where they beat Thanos 1 out of 1million+ times. But yet koji says there is no timeline that he wins. That means there is possibly a timeline where boruto lands uzuhiko and jura tanks it.

Hence the "likely or possibly".

1) its infinite no buts or ifs
2) even if it is a possibility you cant scale that timelines jura to this one, only that hypothetical jura would be as strong, not this one, there's absolutely nothing stating every possibility has characters retain the same power level, that literally contradicts the very point of infinite possibilities
3) narutos likely outer lets give him half ratings for tier 1

 

[Samlex1234]

there is no definitive answer to that rn

Arc's calc gave us a value for Uzuhiko in general that utilized what we currently know Uzuhiko is based on (centrifugal and rotational force) to assign it a value (600 Zettatons).

The site usually doesn't grant charitability if there's no sound logic that beats out the other interpretations, for the sake of indexing, that value was assigned to Uzuhiko at its strongest, aka Maximum Output Uzuhiko.

This was partially due to where we currently scale the characters and based on our current understanding of Uzuhiko, in that it's only comprised of Boruto's chakra + the Planet's rotational and centrifugal energy, meaning that its highest output being at least the full yield of said energy is probably the least assumptive and most consistent route to take until more information is presented, barring arguments like "Uzuhiko doesn't use the planet chakra in its AP", which ends up being a completely different topic from just assigning a value to a jutsu.

If we get more information that makes it seem like Uzuhiko is much more than what we were initially told, then we'll just update accordingly.

You’re still not understanding my point. I never claimed that Uzuhiko doesn’t enhance AP. My argument is that the energy source for Uzuhiko cannot be finite. If it were finite, and we agreed that the maximum energy source is only 600 zettatons, then it would impose a strict limit on how long Uzuhiko could use that energy. A finite energy source inherently means a restricted duration for its activation, which contradicts the implication of its sustained usability.