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Ben 10: Update, Fixing and Additions part 8

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Ultimate-Rex1

Ultimate-Rex1

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Mana Manipulation​
P&A
We have this in Mana Manipulation page:
Click to expand...
It should be also has Conceptual Manipulation:
Click to expand...
Also we have this:
Click to expand...
We should also add this:
Abstract Existence [Type 2 {Fundamental}] - Mana users can affect Alpha Rune, a which is the secret true name of mana and even source of mana a fundamental force of universe, and if he gets destroyed/or disappeared, Legerdomain would be destroyed, and he has control over abstraction. Spaces & Space-Time - Can interact with barrier of space-time.
Click to expand...
Mana users should be has Immortality:
Immortality (Type 2 - Mana users can still alive even without life-force[1][2], which may cause death to beings if absorbed, for example; DNAlien and Rock Monster. )
Click to expand...
Range
The range of Mana show the capabilities to affect between 2 dimensions who is called a barrier of space-time or higher-dimensional barrier, and thus their range is Extradimensional. However, Mana can track things and search for their locations over the universe, thus some Mana abilities such as Extrasensory Perception or Clairvoyance on this level have beyond baseline Complex Multiversal, likely Hyperversal (1-C [6-D], likely 1-B [25-D]) range.
Click to expand...
Anodite Physiology​
Resistance to Information Analysis, Power Nullification & Transmutation (1 Layer - Anodite can't affect by DNA Scanner, who can scan the aliens and nullify their transformation[8])
Click to expand...
Layered hax​
This page is for all Layers in Ben 10
vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10: All hax layers ig

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Mana users profiles​
Charmcaster: Old - New
  1. Removed some of abilities, bc some of them are not have evidenced and some of them are available on the Mana page
  2. Modification in Tier consider that Ben 10 [verse] get downgrade to 5-B
  3. Her intelligence upgrade to Extraordinary Genius due to this: (Charmcaster made a machine can absorb all higher-dimensional flows in Legerdomain. Possesses a very large amount of knowledge of magical artifacts and rituals. Able to fool Kevin, Gwen and Hex. She knows how the timeflow works in Earth dimension and Legerdomain.)
Now P&A:
Now Resistance:
Now Equipment:
Alpha Rune:
Other Equipment
With Gwen's Powers:
All previous her powers and abilities enhanced:
Click to expand...
Michael Morningstar: Old - New
  1. His intelligence would be upgrade to At least Above Average: (He made his plan to trick Kevin and with the help of Cooper, Michael create a machine that could absorb the Kevin food that he stole[3])
  2. Removed some of abilities, bc some of them are not have evidenced and some of them are available on the Mana page
  3. Modification in Tier consider that Ben 10 [verse] get downgrade to 5-B (Golden form downgrade to 5-A)
  4. His Lifting Strength upgrade to Class P due to this: (Comparable to Highbreed. Can restrain DNAlien) and in Golden Michael would upscale to Class Z due to this: (Absorb Ultimate Kevin's strength)
Base P&A:
Resistance:
Golden Michael P&A:
Resistance:
Click to expand...
Dagon: Old - New
  1. His intelligence would be upgrade to Gifted due to this: (He didn't underestimate George a second time and learned from his previous encounter.)
  2. Abilities such as Immortality (Type 1) should be removed, because it was not mentioned that Dagon does not grow up with age.
  3. Stamina would upgrade to infinite due to this: (Although he aspired to obtain his heart, which is the source of his life, he does not need it to live, as he is able to stay alive and use its power as he wishes.)
P&A:
Resistance:
Click to expand...
Ascalon: Old - New
  1. Ascalon should be has 2 keys:
    1. Pre-Possessing Dagon
    2. Post-Possessing Dagon
  2. Should be has many updates:
    1. In Post-Possessing Dagon | Should be upscale to At most Multiverse level+ due to this: (After absorbing Dagon, Vilgax stated that Ascalon capable of creating any universe. As Ascalon absorbed Dagon, it should be superior to Alpha Rune)
    2. Ascalon should be has Massively FTL+ attack speed due to this: (Can blitz Gwen)
    3. In Post-Possessing Dagon, Ascalon should be has Interdimensional with Dagon's abilities up to Multiversal+
Pre-Possessing Dagon:
P&A:
Resistance:
Post-Possessing Dagon:
P&A:
All previous his abilities enhanced and has Power and Abilities of Dagon:

Resistance:
All previous resistance and has Resistances of Dagon
Click to expand...
Sir George: Old - New
  1. In Old George key, he should be has many updates:
    1. He should be upscale to 5-B+ due to: Harmed Esoterica. Can harm Sir Driscoll, who survive hit from Ultimate Spidermonkey.
    2. Should be upscale to Massively FTL+ due to: Keep up Sir Driscoll. Could react to Esoterica's attacks.
    3. His Intelligence would upgrade to Genius due to: Sir George is very intelligent. He was shown to be able to use magic to the extent of fortifying the seal to hold both Dagon and the Lucubra[4]. He also used calculus to predict the next location of Dagon's teleporting shrine[3].
  2. His weaknesses is not "Without Ascalon, he will turn back into an old man." as Sir George even after Ascalon fell from him he did not return to be old.
P&A:
With Ascalon:

Resistance:
With Ascalon:

Click to expand...
Hex - Old - New
Downgrade:
  1. Should be downgrade to 5-B
  2. Should remove Darkness Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation and Necromancy as Hex never show this abilities, and other abilities, it's available in Mana Manipulation
  3. Should be removed Within his library key (it's not even a key) and add 4-B, possibly 4-A in Alien Force, Ultimate Alien, Omniverse, as this:
Planet level (Superior to Gwen and Charmcaster), At least Solar System level, possibly Multi-Solar System level within his library (It is said that, within his library, he is "unbeatable". With his totem, Charmcaster stomped Anodite Form Gwen)
Fixing:
  1. Should be upscale to 2-A with the combined power of the Charms, as he can alter reality
P&A:
Equipment:
The Charms of Bezel:
Click to expand...
Kevin and Humungousaur:
Resistance to Reality Warping, Existence Erasure, Spatial Manipulation & Time Manipulation (Can survives after a split of reality within a radius of several light years)
Click to expand...
Gwen:
- More proof for Genius Intelligence
She can solve the calculus question to predict the next location of Dagon's teleporting shrine in 30 seconds.
Click to expand...
- P&A
Illusion Creation Negation (Can disrupt holograms)
Click to expand...
- Resistance
Click to expand...
Omnitrix:
Resistance
Power Nullification (Omnitrix can't nullify by Gwen's negative spell)
Click to expand...

Fixing that profiles
Paradox: Old - Now
Upgrade:
  • Paradox should be upgrade to 1-B with powers:
Hyperverse level with his powers (Created Chronal randomization barrier, which comparable to the size of The Forge of Creation since it completely hides the Forge of Creation from anyone in all of the existence.)
  • His Lifting Strength upgrade to Immeasurable via Reality Warping and his powers:
Immeasurable via Reality Warping and his powers (Moved an entire Chronal randomization barrier outside "The Universe")
  • His Range upgrade to Hyperversal with Abilities:
Hyperversal with Abilities (Created Chronal Randomization Barrier, and make it invisible and out of sync with all time. Can open portal to Chronal Randomization Barrier.)
Downgrade & Removed:
  1. His Space-Time Manipulation should be removed as he never showe that can manipulate space-time
  2. Teleportation should be removed as he never showe that he can Teleportation, because he actually move very quickly, faster than the eyes of humans and creatures, and this has been accepted (but Teleportation would be with Chrono Navigator)
  3. Telekinesis should be get removed due to this scan not show he can telekinesis as he just closes the door without seeing/statement if he's using telekinesis
  4. His Resistance to BFR has no scan or even prove so it should be removed
P&A:
With Equipment:
With Preparation Time:
Resistance:
Click to expand...
Clockwork: Old - Now
  1. Should be has new key (Upgraded by Techno-Bubble)
    1. In Upgraded by Techno-Bubble, should be upgrade to At least 4-B, possibly 4-A due to
    2. In Upgraded by Techno-Bubble, his LS upgrade to Class P due to:
  2. In Base should get fixing in abilities and physical statistics
    1. His speed upgrade to 87,659,999,327.49c as accepted before
    2. His Clairvoyance should be removed and add in Upgraded by Techno-Bubble because he get upgrade and more abilities after get more strong by Techno-Bubble
    3. His Range should be downgrade to Low 1-C due to Timestream is 5-D (Also Omnitrix's resistance should downgrade to 5-D)
Base
P&A:
(Also Maltruant should be has Time Manipulation 1 layer due to this)
Upgraded by Techno-Bubble:
P&A:
All previous his abilities enhanced:
Click to expand...
Agree: @ActuallySpaceMan42, @DarkDragonMedeus (Same as SpaceMan's opinion)
Disagree: ActuallySpaceMan42 (here [He rejected a lot of things, so I can't write them šŸ˜­])
 
Last edited:
My Answer:

I agree with some of the things mentioned, such as:

- Life Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Dimensional Manipulation, and Magic: Any sapient species can potentially learn to manipulate mana, a life energy, soul, and higher-dimensional flow that permeates all of nature and serves as the substance of magic.

- There should also be Physical Manipulation, since mana or primordial energy are fundamental forces of the universe itself.

So, the additions would be:
Conceptual Manipulation, Physical Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Dimensional Manipulation, and Magic (Type 2 [4-D]). Any sapient species can learn to manipulate mana, an essence for all beings in the universe. Mana is directly linked to a person's being, allowing them to control life, soul, dimension, and magic. Furthermore, mana is a fundamental energy of the universe, capable of creating worlds of data and magic. In the case of Legerdomain, changes in magic cause changes in the very form of this realm.

  • Non-Physical Interaction:
  • Intangibility: Mana can interact with Ectonurites, even when they are intangible.
  • Memory: Can interact with Gwen's memory.
  • Life Energy, Energy and Soul: Can interact with Charmcaster's spirit, which is composed of life energy, magic and soul.

It should also be added:

- Abstract Existence (Type 2 [Fundamental]): Mana users can affect the Alpha Rune, which is the true secret name of mana and its source. As a fundamental force, the destruction of the Alpha Rune would lead to the collapse of Legerdomain. - Spaces and Space-Time: Mana can interact with space-time barriers, indicating extradimensional reach.

Anodite Physiology:
- Resistance to information analysis, power nullification and transmutation (1 layer - DNA Scanner does not affect Anodites).

I also agree with the profiles of Charmcaster, Ascalon, Hex and some parts of Sir George and Dagon:

  • Sir George:
  • Weapon Mastery: He was an expert with swords and other weapons, improvising when necessary.
  • Martial Artist: Defeated Sir Driscoll without a sword.
  • Intelligence (Genius): Used calculations to predict the next location of Dagon's sanctuary.

  • Gwen:
  • Genius: Solved complex questions in seconds.
  • Resistance: Resisted Michael's corruption and restored his mana.

- Omnitrix:
- Resistance to Power Nullification (cannot be nullified by Gwen's negative spell).

  • Professor Paradox:
  • In favor of upgrading to 1-B with additional abilities:
  • Hyperversal: Created the Chronal Randomization Barrier to hide the Forge of Creation.
  • Time Manipulation: Can manipulate time in 26 dimensions.

However, I disagree with some proposals:

- Sir George - Immortality:
I disagree with type 1 immortality, as it seems more like longevity. He has aged considerably (as shown in the aforementioned video). I also disagree with type 5 and 8 immortality, as the connection with Ascalon does not imply true immortality.

- Dagon - Abstract Existence:
I disagree with the classification as abstract existence type 2. To me, it seems like something closer to an Inorganic Physiology (Type 1: Its essence is pure power that cannot be destroyed).

- Professor Paradox - Space-Time Manipulation and Teleportation:
I disagree with the removal of these abilities. He manipulates space-time indirectly with his barrier and travels quickly between dimensions, which justifies the teleportation.
 
jgms2008 said:
- Sir George - Immortality:
I disagree with type 1 immortality, as it seems more like longevity. He has aged considerably (as shown in the aforementioned video). I also disagree with type 5 and 8 immortality, as the connection with Ascalon does not imply true immortality.
Click to expand...
He literally stated that he had some kind of immortality, and this was confirmed by Sir Driscoll, who met Sir George and studied his stories and words, and he stated that he had immortality and allows him to be as old as possible and always put him at his Peak, that's it. Immortality Type 1 get accepted before lol
1: Eternal Life: Characters gifted with this type of immortality cannot die from natural causes, such as old age or conventional illness, but can be killed by unnatural causes. To clarify, this type of immortality can include both those who do not age at all, and those who still grow old, but will never die of old age. However, in the case of the latter, it should be made clear that this is not just Longevity, as characters with that ability will eventually die of old age, as opposed to Eternal Life, for which dying of old age is not possible.
Click to expand...
Immortality Type 5 & 8:
5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
Click to expand...
8: Reliant Immortality: The character gets benefited by 1 or more other types of Immortality as long as a certain being, object, place, and/or concept or more may grant them those benefits, losing them otherwise. What exactly a user is reliant over, the benefits given from it, and how the process of the ability operates must be explained. Simply having some weakness that will kill a character when exploited doesn't qualify if it doesn't grant a form of Immortality, and also having other powers that do grant Immortality but are unrelated to that weakness does not count as well. It is discouraged to list this type if it would be redundant due to the same power already being described in another ability of the profile.
Click to expand...
jgms2008 said:
- Dagon - Abstract Existence:
I disagree with the classification as abstract existence type 2. To me, it seems like something closer to an Inorganic Physiology (Type 1: Its essence is pure power that cannot be destroyed).
Click to expand...
This is not Inorganic Physiology. Dagon is source of very high energy/power, and even his heart give him "cannot be destroyed"/Immortality Type 3
jgms2008 said:
- Professor Paradox - Space-Time Manipulation and Teleportation:
I disagree with the removal of these abilities. He manipulates space-time indirectly with his barrier and travels quickly between dimensions, which justifies the teleportation.
Click to expand...
His Space-Time Manipulation & Teleportation is not come from indirectly with his barrier and travels quickly between dimensions.
Space-Time Manipulation - "He manipulates space-time indirectly with his barrier" this is not Space-Time Manipulation (even if this Space-Time Manipulation, it would be limited) Immeasurable via Space-Time Manipulation will turn into Immeasurable via his powers. Since this does not prove Space-Time Manipulation, there is no context that states that he is capable of this or that we have seen him do it (but it can be added with "Preparation Time").
Teleportation - His Teleportation comes from Chrono Navigator and it has been discussed that his "teleport to another places" actually comes from his travel speed.
 
REX9097 said:
He literally stated that he had some kind of immortality, and this was confirmed by Sir Driscoll, who met Sir George and studied his stories and words, and he stated that he had immortality and allows him to be as old as possible and always put him at his Peak, that's it. Immortality Type 1 get accepted before lol


Immortality Type 5 & 8:
5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
8: Reliant Immortality: The character gets benefited by 1 or more other types of Immortality as long as a certain being, object, place, and/or concept or more may grant them those benefits, losing them otherwise. What exactly a user is reliant over, the benefits given from it, and how the process of the ability operates must be explained. Simply having some weakness that will kill a character when exploited doesn't qualify if it doesn't grant a form of Immortality, and also having other powers that do grant Immortality but are unrelated to that weakness does not count as well. It is discouraged to list this type if it would be redundant due to the same power already being described in another ability of the profile.
Click to expand...









Ok, now that I've stopped to analyze it better, you're actually right about type 1 immortality, but I disagree with types 5 and 8, because at no point is it said that Sir George's immortality depends on the sword, besides, when Dagon destroyed/killed him, he doesn't seem to have come back, since if he had been connected to Ascalon, he would have come back, since the sword wasn't destroyed.
Click to expand...

 
Why is Concept Type 2 there, being called a fundamental essence? But even then I dont think the characters actually change Mana fundamentally at all. They only utilize it. How is that CM.
 
His Space-Time Manipulation & Teleportation is not come from indirectly with his barrier and travels quickly between dimensions.
Space-Time Manipulation - "He manipulates space-time indirectly with his barrier" this is not Space-Time Manipulation (even if this Space-Time Manipulation, it would be limited) Immeasurable via Space-Time Manipulation will turn into Immeasurable via his powers. Since this does not prove Space-Time Manipulation, there is no context that states that he is capable of this or that we have seen him do it (but it can be added with "Preparation Time").
Teleportation - His Teleportation comes from Chrono Navigator and it has been discussed that his "teleport to another places" actually comes from his travel speed.
[/QUOTE]









ok but I still disagree with the removal of this from here because :

---

His Space-Time Manipulation should be removed as he never showed that he can manipulate space-time.
My opinion: Well, he was trapped in a timeless dimension for several millennia, if I'm not mistaken. Because of this, Paradox must have a deep understanding of the space-time continuum, which allows him to have space-time manipulation.

Teleportation should be removed as he never showed that he can teleportation, because he actually moves very quickly, faster than the eyes of humans and creatures, and this has been accepted (but teleportation would be with Chrono Navigator).
My opinion: Dude, he literally teleported Ben's team out of the universe in one episode (as well as himself). Furthermore, Derrick J. Wyatt himself has stated that he can teleport buildings. This makes it quite clear that teleportation is an ability in its own right, not just associated with the Chrono Navigator.

Telekinesis should be removed due to this scan not showing he can telekinesis as he just closes the door without seeing/statement if he's using telekinesis.
My opinion: I'm neutral on this point

His Resistance to BFR has no scan or even prove so it should be removed.
My opinion: He should have resistance to BFR, since he can open portals to other universes, has teleportation, and has dimensional travel.(Although the latter is with the help of Chrono Navigator )These abilities show that he has some resistance to BFR easily
 
jgms2008 said:
His Space-Time Manipulation should be removed as he never showed that he can manipulate space-time.
My opinion: Well, he was trapped in a timeless dimension for several millennia, if I'm not mistaken. Because of this, Paradox must have a deep understanding of the space-time continuum, which allows him to have space-time manipulation.
Click to expand...
No, he understanding of the space-time continuum, which allows him to travel to any point in time
jgms2008 said:
Teleportation should be removed as he never showed that he can teleportation, because he actually moves very quickly, faster than the eyes of humans and creatures, and this has been accepted (but teleportation would be with Chrono Navigator).
My opinion: Dude, he literally teleported Ben's team out of the universe in one episode (as well as himself). Furthermore, Derrick J. Wyatt himself has stated that he can teleport buildings. This makes it quite clear that teleportation is an ability in its own right, not just associated with the Chrono Navigator.
Click to expand...
This via Chrono Navigator, so.... Anyway, WOG in this statement means, he can teleport via Chrono Navigator or he means Paradox can travel to another place via speed and his Teleportation accepted as Travel speed, due to Ben and Paradox's statement so...
jgms2008 said:
His Resistance to BFR has no scan or even prove so it should be removed.
My opinion: He should have resistance to BFR, since he can open portals to other universes, has teleportation, and has dimensional travel.(Although the latter is with the help of Chrono Navigator )These abilities show that he has some resistance to BFR easily
Click to expand...
This is not resistance to BFR lol. Paradox must be show he can't be affected by being teleported to another dimension by other characters.
 
by the way, I'm curious to know where you got this immortality type 8 from Professor Paradox, and I also disagree with this one here too:

Gifted: He didn't underestimate George a second time and learned from his previous encounter.
Click to expand...
 
Was Legerdomain accepted as conceptual yet?
Everything I didn't address seems fine, though some other Ben 10 Members should look over all this.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Creating a barrier is not an AP feat.
Click to expand...
He moved it and created a barrier that "disconnected" a 26-D thing from another 26-D (possibly 6D), how couldn't it be scaled to AP?
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Existence Erasure.
Click to expand...
Eh? It's literally stated that he could CREATE a universe without evil, how is that EE? And even then, it should still give 2-A range, and AP
 
GeneralSol16 said:
He moved it and created a barrier that "disconnected" a 26-D thing from another 26-D (possibly 6D), how couldn't it be scaled to AP?
Click to expand...
Because he's not attacking anything, or shown that can be used to damage anyone.
GeneralSol16 said:
Eh? It's literally stated that he could CREATE a universe without evil, how is that EE? And even then, it should still give 2-A range, and AP
Click to expand...
I could create a universe without stars, if I destroyed all stars.

I could create a universe without life, if I destroyed all life.

I could create a universe without evil, if I wipe out all evil.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
Here, mana can interact with open portal between two dimensions
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
  • Isn't Gwen made of energy or something? She may have lost her power, but I doubt she was drained completely, or else that would make no sense.
Click to expand...
Yes he made of mana. Charmcaster stated that Gwen doesn't have a mana yet, so it must be add to Mana users or Gwen & Anodite
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
Here, sorry
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
Ascalon is the one who received and repel it.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
Vilgax mentions that Ascalon is able to can create whatever universe he imagines, so isn't this is Subjective Reality and Creation?
Vilgax: He's saying that the end of your struggles is at hand. He can create whatever universe he imagines.
Click to expand...
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
Using Magic requires mana manipulation, so he shown ability to manipulate mana.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
So? Activating it would cause destruction throughout the universe and we see its effects around him such as its effect on Kevin's transformation. Paradox has stated that if it is activated it will split reality within a radius of several light years.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
Ok šŸ˜­.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
  • Hyperverse level with his powers (Created Chronal randomization barrier, which comparable to the size of The Forge of Creation since it completely hides the Forge of Creation from anyone in all of the existence.)
    • Creating a barrier is not an AP feat.
Click to expand...
Why? Isn't this via Creation, like other Characters has, for example: Aku and Black Hat
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
  • His Lifting Strength upgrade to Immeasurable via Reality Warping and his powers:
    • Disagree due to the lack of reasoning.
Click to expand...
This get accepted before as Multi-Stellar via Space-Time Manipulation
Multi-Stellar via Space-Time Manipulation (Moved an entire nebula outside "The Universe")
Click to expand...
(This show in Map of the Infinite episode)
Azmuth: He erected a chronal randomization barrier that hides the forge of creation from everyone except the forge's inhabitants... and whoever has the map.
Click to expand...
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Click to expand...
Can control over mana. I think "absolute control over Legerdomain" it seems enough to control a complete dimension.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Because he's not attacking anything, or shown that can be used to damage anyone.

I could create a universe without stars, if I destroyed all stars.

I could create a universe without life, if I destroyed all life.

I could create a universe without evil, if I wipe out all evil.
Click to expand...
I think u read this now?
REX9097 said:
Here, mana can interact with open portal between two dimensions

Yes he made of mana. Charmcaster stated that Gwen doesn't have a mana yet, so it must be add to Mana users or Gwen & Anodite

Here, sorry

Ascalon is the one who received and repel it.

Vilgax mentions that Ascalon is able to can create whatever universe he imagines, so isn't this is Subjective Reality and Creation?


Using Magic requires mana manipulation, so he shown ability to manipulate mana.

So? Activating it would cause destruction throughout the universe and we see its effects around him such as its effect on Kevin's transformation. Paradox has stated that if it is activated it will split reality within a radius of several light years.

Ok šŸ˜­.

Why? Isn't this via Creation, like other Characters has, for example: Aku and Black Hat

This get accepted before as Multi-Stellar via Space-Time Manipulation

(This show in Map of the Infinite episode)


Can control over mana. I think "absolute control over Legerdomain" it seems enough to control a complete dimension.
Click to expand...
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Was Legerdomain accepted as conceptual yet?
Everything I didn't address seems fine, though some other Ben 10 Members should look over all this.
Click to expand...
I agree with this post
 
REX9097 said:
Here, mana can interact with open portal between two dimensions
Click to expand...
That's still something Gwen only did.
REX9097 said:
Yes he made of mana. Charmcaster stated that Gwen doesn't have a mana yet, so it must be add to Mana users or Gwen & Anodite
Click to expand...
If a being made of mana, loses all their mana, then they wouldn't exist. So the only explanation is Gwen wasn't drained of all her mana.
REX9097 said:
Here, sorry
Click to expand...
That's fine then.
REX9097 said:
Ascalon is the one who received and repel it.
Click to expand...
But it has attack reflection.
REX9097 said:
Vilgax mentions that Ascalon is able to can create whatever universe he imagines, so isn't this is Subjective Reality and Creation?
Click to expand...
I already went over this.
REX9097 said:
Using Magic requires mana manipulation, so he shown ability to manipulate mana.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the Mana Manipulation your linking to his profile, would grant him every single mana ability, which he has no showcase of being able to use.
REX9097 said:
So? Activating it would cause destruction throughout the universe and we see its effects around him such as its effect on Kevin's transformation. Paradox has stated that if it is activated it will split reality within a radius of several light years.
Click to expand...
He didn't say activating it would cause destruction, he said blowing it up with bombs would cause destruction. I see no reason to assume the fracture effect is actually harmful to anyone.
REX9097 said:
Why? Isn't this via Creation, like other Characters has, for example: Aku and Black Hat
Click to expand...
We don't even know how he created it.
REX9097 said:
This get accepted before as Multi-Stellar via Space-Time Manipulation
Click to expand...
Yes, but there's no reason to bump it up to Immeasurable.
REX9097 said:
Can control over mana. I think "absolute control over Legerdomain" it seems enough to control a complete dimension.
Click to expand...
That's not enough for Reality Manipulation, but it is enough for Pocket Reality Manipulation.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
If a being made of mana, loses all their mana, then they wouldn't exist. So the only explanation is Gwen wasn't drained of all her mana.
Click to expand...
Here, Darkstar absorbs all Gwen's life-energy (only) isn't this gives him Immortality Type 2?
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
But it has attack reflection.
Click to expand...
It's via Physical
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
He didn't say activating it would cause destruction, he said blowing it up with bombs would cause destruction. I see no reason to assume the fracture effect is actually harmful to anyone.
Click to expand...
Here, affects Kevin and Max also warned them of bomb power.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
I already went over this.
Click to expand...
You mean agree with EE or SR?
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Yes, but the Mana Manipulation your linking to his profile, would grant him every single mana ability, which he has no showcase of being able to use.
Click to expand...
He will still get Mana Manipulation considering he learned to use Mana, but it would be Non-combative applicable.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
We don't even know how he created it.

Yes, but there's no reason to bump it up to Immeasurable.
Click to expand...
This is not logical and we have an action statement that proves that it is capable of moving Chronal Randomization Barrier, so it should be via Powers. There are also several characters that don't tell us how they created His Pocket dimension or any thing.

It's bc Chronal Randomization Barrier is 26-D due to comparable to FOC size.
 
Last edited:
Firestorm808 said:
@DarkDragonMedeus

@ActuallySpaceMan42

Can you guys please reiterate your current stance on whether Ascalon should get the same "Up to 2-A via absorption" rating as Dagon or a solid "2-A" rating?
Click to expand...
This is stupid when you make Dagon become 2-A due to Ascalon + Dagon powers are much stronger than Dagon, can you please clarify why you said Ascalon should be "2-A via Absorption" because literally Vilgax is mentioned Ben able to create a universe with Dagon and Ascalon powers combined, so...
Ascalon (Post-Possessing Dagon) up to 2-A due to can create any universe + should be comparable, if not superior to Alpha Rune (without Absorption)
 
Last edited:
REX9097 said:
This is stupid when you make Dagon become 2-A due to Ascalon + Dagon powers are much stronger than Dagon, can you please clarify why you said Ascalon should be "2-A via Absorption" because literally Vilgax is mentioned Ben able to create a universe with Dagon and Ascalon powers combined, so...
Ascalon (Post-Possessing Dagon) up to 2-A due to can create any universe + should be comparable, if not superior to Alpha Rune (without Absorption)
Click to expand...
Sorry. I don't follow.

Base Dagon and Ascalon are both currently rated "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A"

They get a higher Tier after absorption.

Dagon seems to have an absorption capacity up to the capacity of the Alpha Rune at Tier 2.

Base Ascalon + Base Dagon wouldn't be Tier 2.

As mentioned above, "Creating a universe can be taken as hyperbole without supporting evidence."
 
Kevin and Humungousaur:
Gwen:
- More proof for Genius Intelligence
- P&A
- Resistance
Omnitrix:
Resistance
Fixing that profiles
Paradox: Old - Now

Upgrade:
  • Paradox should be upgrade to 1-B with powers:
Hyperverse level with his powers (Created Chronal randomization barrier, which comparable to the size of The Forge of Creation since it completely hides the Forge of Creation from anyone in all of the existence.)

Not sure this counts for AP. Will ask another staff member for help.
  • His Lifting Strength upgrade to Immeasurable via Reality Warping and his powers:
Immeasurable via Reality Warping and his powers (Moved an entire Chronal randomization barrier outside "The Universe")

What quote are you using that Paradox moved it?
  • His Range upgrade to Hyperversal with Abilities:
Hyperversal with Abilities (Created Chronal Randomization Barrier, and make it invisible and out of sync with all time. Can open portal to Chronal Randomization Barrier.)

Not sure this counts. Will ask another staff member for help.

Downgrade & Removed:
  1. His Space-Time Manipulation should be removed as he never showe that can manipulate space-time
  2. Teleportation should be removed as he never showe that he can Teleportation, because he actually move very quickly, faster than the eyes of humans and creatures, and this has been accepted (but Teleportation would be with Chrono Navigator)
  3. Telekinesis should be get removed due to this scan not show he can telekinesis as he just closes the door without seeing/statement if he's using telekinesis
  4. His Resistance to BFR has no scan or even prove so it should be removed
Fine.

P&A:
With Equipment:
With Preparation Time:
Resistance:
Clockwork: Old - Now
  • Should be has new key (Upgraded by Techno-Bubble)
    1. In Upgraded by Techno-Bubble, should be upgrade to At least 4-B, possibly 4-A due to
    2. In Upgraded by Techno-Bubble, his LS upgrade to Class P due to:
You mean scaling from Upgrade?
  • In Base should get fixing in abilities and physical statistics
    1. His speed upgrade to 87,659,999,327.49c as accepted before
Scaled to what?

His Clairvoyance should be removed and add in Upgraded by Techno-Bubble because he get upgrade and more abilities after get more strong by Techno-Bubble

Okay.

His Range should be downgrade to Low 1-C due to Timestream is 5-D (Also Omnitrix's resistance should downgrade to 5-D)

Fine.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Dagon seems to have an absorption capacity up to the capacity of the Alpha Rune at Tier 2.

Base Ascalon + Base Dagon wouldn't be Tier 2.
Click to expand...
It must be Ascalon after absorbing Dagon Powers comparable to Dagon after absorbing 600K Souls, and what supports this is that both their powers together are able to create a complete universe.
Firestorm808 said:
Base Dagon and Ascalon are both currently rated "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A"

Base Ascalon + Base Dagon wouldn't be Tier 2.

As mentioned above, "Creating a universe can be taken as hyperbole without supporting evidence."
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you're trying to explain? But if you mean that Ascalon has "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A" and combined with Dagon's power which is "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A" it can't be "2-A", then Base Vegito (DBZ) can't be 4-B ("21.06 MegaFoe") bc he's powers are combination of Base Goku's power which is "10.53 Foe" and Base Vegeta's power which is "2.6325 Foe". Why Hyperbole? Vilgax is very experienced in the power, skills and combat, as it has seen power of Ascalon, as well as the power of Dagon.
Firestorm808 said:
Kevin and Humungousaur:
Click to expand...
Kevin was literally resisting it, as it was affected by the surroundings of those around them. Max was inside Gwen's Shield.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1330776774342344858/Screenshot_20250120_084820_com_hihonor_photos_SlotAlbumActivity_edit_830418986122342.jpg?ex=678f35f3&is=678de473&hm=943e67b9c8db5974f650db475509c484b6f06228935cd79e807201551d939670&
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1330776767174017104/Screenshot_20250120_084719_com_hihonor_photos_SlotAlbumActivity_edit_830414438456418.jpg?ex=678f35f1&is=678de471&hm=b825fa6b4f2b8ed09617a95a70c841cb7fdcaef8a0f220a5cdabaf42e75f6b83&
Firestorm808 said:
Immeasurable via Reality Warping and his powers (Moved an entire Chronal randomization barrier outside "The Universe")

What quote are you using that Paradox moved it?
Click to expand...
Azmuth: He erected a chronal randomization barrier that hides the forge of creation from everyone except the forge's inhabitants... and whoever has the map.
Click to expand...
 
Firestorm808 said:
Click to expand...
Here by WOG
Firestorm808 said:
  • Should be has new key (Upgraded by Techno-Bubble)
    1. In Upgraded by Techno-Bubble, should be upgrade to At least 4-B, possibly 4-A due to
    2. In Upgraded by Techno-Bubble, his LS upgrade to Class P due to:
You mean scaling from Upgrade?
Click to expand...
Of course, yes. Also it should be upscale to Maltruant. But his Class P is due to overpowered Exo-Skull
Firestorm808 said:
  • In Base should get fixing in abilities and physical statistics
    1. His speed upgrade to 87,659,999,327.49c as accepted before
Scaled to what?
Click to expand...
Scaled to Ultimate Aggregor's flight, this get accepted.
 
Last edited:
REX9097 said:
It must be Ascalon after absorbing Dagon Powers comparable to Dagon after absorbing 600K Souls, and what supports this is that both their powers together are able to create a complete universe.

I don't understand what you're trying to explain? But if you mean that Ascalon has "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A" and combined with Dagon's power which is "At least 4-B, possibly 4-A" it can't be "2-A", then Base Vegito (DBZ) can't be 4-B ("21.06 MegaFoe") bc he's powers are combination of Base Goku's power which is "10.53 Foe" and Base Vegeta's power which is "2.6325 Foe". Why Hyperbole? Vilgax is very experienced in the power, skills and combat, as it has seen power of Ascalon, as well as the power of Dagon.

Kevin was literally resisting it, as it was affected by the surroundings of those around them. Max was inside Gwen's Shield.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1330776774342344858/Screenshot_20250120_084820_com_hihonor_photos_SlotAlbumActivity_edit_830418986122342.jpg?ex=678f35f3&is=678de473&hm=943e67b9c8db5974f650db475509c484b6f06228935cd79e807201551d939670&
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1330776767174017104/Screenshot_20250120_084719_com_hihonor_photos_SlotAlbumActivity_edit_830414438456418.jpg?ex=678f35f1&is=678de471&hm=b825fa6b4f2b8ed09617a95a70c841cb7fdcaef8a0f220a5cdabaf42e75f6b83&
Click to expand...
  1. "what supports this is that both their powers together are able to create a complete universe." I don't think this statement alone is enough to justify it.
  2. You need justification that the power increases through absorption are more than linear.
  3. If anything, I'm seeing resistance to the fracturing of local space and the force from it. So just limited spacial manip.
  4. Erected doesn't mean moved, just created.
 
REX9097 said:
Here by WOG

Of course, yes. Also it should be upscale to Maltruant. But his Class P is due to overpowered Exo-Skull

Scaled to Ultimate Aggregor's flight, this get accepted.
Click to expand...
  1. That's not really resistance. That's just the device not working on her the same way it would on human Ben. Not enough alien DNA for an effect compared to the full dna in the omnitrix.
 
Firestorm808 said:
  1. "what supports this is that both their powers together are able to create a complete universe." I don't think this statement alone is enough to justify it.
Click to expand...
They can wipe out all evil, so it should be included evil characters, like Charmcaster (who was carrying Alpha Rune at that time)
Firestorm808 said:
  1. You need justification that the power increases through absorption are more than linear.
Click to expand...
Can you To clarify what you said better
Firestorm808 said:
  1. If anything, I'm seeing resistance to the fracturing of local space and the force from it. So just limited spacial manip.
Click to expand...
Ok
Firestorm808 said:
  1. Erected doesn't mean moved, just created.
Click to expand...
Why? Erected is means "put up"
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
That's still something Gwen only did.

If a being made of mana, loses all their mana, then they wouldn't exist. So the only explanation is Gwen wasn't drained
That's fine then.

But it has attack reflection.

I already went over this.

Yes, but the Mana Manipulation your linking to his profile, would grant him every single mana ability, which he has no showcase of being able to use.

He didn't say activating it would cause destruction, he said blowing it up with bombs would cause destruction. I see no reason to assume the fracture effect is actually harmful to anyone.

We don't even know how he created it.

Yes, but there's no reason to bump it up to Immeasurable.

That's not enough for Reality Manipulation, but it is enough for Pocket Reality Manipulation.
Click to expand...
So what do you think?
REX9097 said:
Here, Darkstar absorbs all Gwen's life-energy (only) isn't this gives him Immortality Type 2?

It's via Physical

Here, affects Kevin and Max also warned them of bomb power.

You mean agree with EE or SR?

He will still get Mana Manipulation considering he learned to use Mana, but it would be Non-combative applicable.

This is not logical and we have an action statement that proves that it is capable of moving Chronal Randomization Barrier, so it should be via Powers. There are also several characters that don't tell us how they created His Pocket dimension or any thing.

It's bc Chronal Randomization Barrier is 26-D due to comparable to FOC size.
Click to expand...
 
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