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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

What the **** does that even mean?

Well, the only example I really got was Solaris. It seems he thought the Super trio were helpless against Solaris, and needed Elise to erase him. Thus, they don't scale. It was a mistake on his end, but he probably would pull back after a bit clarification on my end.

As for the universal—whatever. I'm... assuming he's relatively new to all this. So, he probably assumed "Universal power" was a catch all term, and that if someone is "Universal" then they can rewrite the universe. I just addressed this, and he didn't seem to bring it up again.

I'm not being too mean since he was relatively respectful. Just seemed misinformed about a few things. Just poking a little fun
 
Well, the only example I really got was Solaris. It seems he thought the Super trio were helpless against Solaris, and needed Elise to erase him. Thus, they don't scale. It was a mistake on his end, but he probably would pull back after a bit clarification on my end.

As for the universal—whatever. I'm... assuming he's relatively new to all this. So, he probably assumed "Universal power" was a catch all term, and that if someone is "Universal" then they can rewrite the universe. I just addressed this, and he didn't seem to bring it up again.

I'm not being too mean since he was relatively respectful. Just seemed misinformed about a few things. Just poking a little fun
I see. As long as they're not cocky know-it-all little *****, power-scalling newbies do deserve our respect the same as anyone else
 
I just realized something: Given that Gerald considers Shadow to be his son, and Eggman is Gerald's grandson, doesn't that mean that Shadow is Eggman's uncle?

And yes I know that Shadow is not Gerald's literal son, but it's funny to imagine Shadow being Eggman's uncle.
 
I just realized something: Given that Gerald considers Shadow to be his son, and Eggman is Gerald's grandson, doesn't that mean that Shadow is Eggman's uncle?

And yes I know that Shadow is not Gerald's literal son, but it's funny to imagine Shadow being Eggman's uncle.
I've had that exact thought for a while now. Taking this logic to its natural conclusion, that would also mean Sage is Eggman Nega's aunt. Someone NEEDS to draw the entire Robotnik family tree.
 
I've had that exact thought for a while now. Taking this logic to its natural conclusion, that would also mean Sage is Eggman Nega's aunt. Someone NEEDS to draw the entire Robotnik family tree.
But what if... Nega actually isn't directly related to Eggman. But is merely his descendant through another family member of his.
 
I just realized something: Given that Gerald considers Shadow to be his son, and Eggman is Gerald's grandson, doesn't that mean that Shadow is Eggman's uncle?

And yes I know that Shadow is not Gerald's literal son, but it's funny to imagine Shadow being Eggman's uncle.
This was already talked in a Twitter Takeover and the response was a resounding no. Furthermore Shadow wasn't included in an official Robotnik family tree made by Sega during Shadow Gens promotion.

GdmcvKPXQAAaCZ3
 
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I know this is the SONIC General Discussion, and my thread isn't 100% over so things can change, but it seems I may have been able to successfully upgrade Mario out of his 6-C hell

Which is funny, because I was doing that thread both before and after the Death Battle and even got accused of ******** on Mario/his fanbase
 
This was already talked in a Twitter Takeover and the response was a resounding no. Furthermore Shadow wasn't included in an official Robotnik family tree made by Sega during Shadow Gens promotion.

GdmcvKPXQAAaCZ3
I can't really argue with official word of mouth from SEGA themselves, but it's still funny to imagine Shadow being Eggman's surrogate uncle.
 
Brought in some additions here
SJG13673 Carrying Archie on his back
 

A watched a few parts of it... everything is bad, like, 96%of this is all bad.
But here a short list:
Translations because he wants, downplay to the Emerl, to Sonic, to Time Eater, to the storybook worlds and shuffles and the emeralds and EVERYTHING
 
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A watched a few parts of it... everything is bad, like, 96%of this is all bad.
But here a short list:
Translations because he wants, downplay to the Emerl, to Sonic, to Time Eater, to the storybook worlds and shuffles and the emeralds and EVERYTHING
What he said about Solaris was so ass ngl
 
So basically summed up as

-FEB didn’t destroy stars, just planets, and Emerl couldn’t fight at full potential/Sonic wasn’t as strong as him and thus had to abuse Emerl’s vulnerabilities. FEB destroying only planets is consistent with Eggman’s ultimate weapon only having the energy to destroy a planet 4x over.

-Lost World EggRobo didn’t absorb the planet’s full energy and wasn’t Eggman’s strongest mech overall, just the strongest he could build on the continent
-Sonic doesn’t scale to the Ifrit Golem who can burn half the universe due to an in game mission description saying his power isn’t enough, needing to aim for a weak point, and Ifrit Golem needing to charge up to do his feat, Arabian Nights being a single universe, the infinite corridor only being traversed by Sonic hitting hourglasses and not actually being infinite, and Erazor didn’t absorb the words and put all of them into the djinn, with the words not being universal due to space visibly still being present despite Erazor holding most of the words, along with Sonic being amped by the world rings against base Erazor due to the emotions of the rings flowing through him. Darkspine Sonic also had all 7 world rings cuz there are four around his limbs along with 3 in his body. King Shahryar doesn’t scale to the cosmology as he’s not it’s direct creator, he just writes the stories that eventually spawned the Nights.

-Egg Salamander requires the chaos and sol emeralds combined to make his dimension, the fusing of the worlds is only possible through the chaos and sol emeralds combined, and the fusion works by dimensional BFRing a universe via the fusion of 14 Emeralds. Egg Wizard can’t fuse dimensions and just allows parallel dimensions to continue coexisting, and is stronger than the 14 Emeralds. Basically arguing that the 14 Emeralds is an exponential boost over 7.

-Base Sonic doesn’t scale at all to Time Eater, the instance of it in Gens 3DS was him pushing Time Eater into a portal and TE was suppressed against base Sonic, Time Eater doesn’t erase space time and just removes the flow of time, he didn’t erase all of space time and was just erasing time according to an interview, and they have to hit a weak spot due to it being far stronger than super sonic. It also only affected one timeline, and doesn’t rewrite events as much as it just changes the past to cause new events via time travel.

-Infinite’s creations are all fake including the sun, null space is fake and not infinite size cuz Sonic just says he can’t see the end to the space (and the space fits within the boss arena for the Death Egg Robot which just extends to a small portion of Eggman Empire fortress), and Sonic doesn’t scale to Infinite fully by the end. Phantom Ruby doesn’t upscale Master Emerald, the Ruby didn’t create Egg Reverie because it’s only shown to do teleporting, and Egg Reverie is just at the top of titanic monarch and not a separate dimension, along with phantom Ruby creations still being base Sonic tier, and heavy king not being super form tier cuz of the phantom Ruby due to being in his phantom form prior to having the ruby.

-Maginaryworld isn’t a multiverse because each of the dreams are things like forests or an island and all dreams can coalesce into one universe, plus only the dream versions of Team Sonic scale.

-Super forms aren’t invincible due to being damaged by multiple things, they don’t have unlimited stamina due to the times where they have run out of juice and need to recharge, and do have a time limit.

-Sonic doesn’t actually get stronger at all cuz Classic Sonic is relative to him, Sonic was using Wisps to empower himself so didn’t get stronger in Colors, Sonic only beat Chaos’s higher forms via aiming at their weak spots and Perfect Chaos still one shots him in Otherworld, along with the Gens fight being Perfect Chaos phase 2 instead of the whole fight, backed up by Shadow fighting Metal Overlord only and not all of Metal’s forms. Using hit point scaling also makes base Sonic weaker in Gens than SA2. Chaos 0 also still scales to base Sonic so PC scaling doesn’t work. Metal Overlord and Devil Doom scaling don’t work due to having to hit their weak points, and Devil Doom grew stronger along with base Shadow so there’s no progression.

-The End’s line doesn’t prove it’s stronger than previous bosses, as it also mentions it’s nothing which would make it weaker, and Ian just said it was referring to itself as timeless rather than stronger, and was just boasting. It’s also relative to Dark Gaia who was planet busting, and Light Gaia is stronger than Super Sonic due to breaking through Dark Gaia’s barrier when super Sonic couldn’t, with Sonic only scaling to dark Gaia’s eye weak points. Sonic didn’t get stronger in Battle, he just stopped holding back due to his need to protect things growing stronger and the dialogue is non-canon.

-Egg Emperor and EggRobo Lost World are equal showing no power growth, power cores used to amp Eggman’s robots in Heroes still can match base form characters post-Forces, the characters struggle with a Gamma prototype, Omega goes even with a Gemerl weaker than his Advance 3 self, Shadow in Shadow Gens defeats Chaos Island soldiers relative to Sonic with 3 cyber amps in Frontiers, Knuckles says the Titans aren’t the strongest things they’ve fought but Sonic still needs to go at them at his best to win, meaning older bosses are superior if they require multiple super forms. Black Doom > Shadow at the beginning of Shadow Gens, a Mecha Sonic with no upgrades since Sonic 3 was relative to modern Sonic, the Badnik train made 32 years ago could match full power Team Sonic post Forces, Fake Emeralds < Chaos Emeralds can hurt and one shot the cast, Heavy King says the 7 Emeralds are far above any of the base cast and that no one who uses Emeralds that the base cast harms can use their full power, Infinite’s hype statements only applied to the four characters before him. Solaris eating the past means he killed the End’s true form, Time Eater, and other super form bosses, showing his superiority.

-Solaris was stuck in the space-time intersection/nexus, which was a merging point for the timeline/time points. Past/present/future coexist in one point in the time space rift, the point Solaris occupies, and the hedgehogs constantly switch off and fight Solaris one at a time, so they weren’t fighting him across all of time, just one Solaris that was the fusion of him across all time, fought in a void at the heart of the time space rift. Sonic wasn’t > Solaris and the hedgehogs needed to damage Solaris’ weak point, and could only damage his weak point, to defeat him, and needed to be supercharged by wishes and emotional energy to do so.

-Sonic uses time stones and panels to time travel, only needing to go LS to do so and was supposedly retconned by Chaos Control. Many characters are affected by chaos control or Time Eater’s time Hax despite being supposed immeasurable speed, Sonic needs to use dual chaos control to time travel which wouldn’t be needed with immeasurable speed.

-Sonic can’t go Lightspeed in base due to multiple statements of him going sound speed in the cover stories, Sonic going Mach speed as his top in ‘06, Sonic going sound speed in Battle, Sonic needs the boost to go Mach 1 and Vector needs an amp to be subsonic, Eggman calling Sonic impressive for being Mach 1, Surge being LS was a boast. Sonic Channel says Sonic goes at sublight speed, Surge with dynamo cage speed amps gets blitzed by lightspeed cyan wisp, Omega says Sonic with wisp amps will only potentially exceed LS if he keeps going at that pace, Sonic Unleashed manual saying Sonic needs the boost to go Mach 1 contradicts the guidebook stating he runs everywhere at lightspeed (or could just be an exaggeration/light speed dash reference), and the Unleashed Boost being > LS dash is a game mechanic due to the boost being slower in other games.

-Emeralds don’t actually have infinite power default, could be referring to their ultimate power or how they can self-recharge energy to produce endless energy. The Emeralds also don’t have infinite power feats, as perfect chaos absorbing them could only flood a planet over time, the eclipse cannon with all 7 emeralds and the ark would only surface wipe, and the piercing the stars is likely actually planets instead because the 7 emeralds could only surface wipe. The Eclipse cannon at .5% being able to destroy a small city means at 100% they would only be large mountain, consistent with how the ancients’ cannon that one shot super Sonic and was almost eclipse cannon level could destroy a small mountain. Shadow needs the EC to destroy the black comet. Mentions that Emerl with the 7 Emeralds could destroy a planet, but noted that Emerl was more powerful in the past and that his feat of destroying the Ark was overtime, meaning him destroying the planet was also likely overtime. Ruby’s power was less than that needed to destroy the Earth 4x over but Eggman with the Ruby was ~ Super Sonic, and Dark Gaia needed to sleep for millions of years to planet bust and Super Sonic is inferior, and the Phantom Ruby doesn’t break the boundaries of dimensions, it was the Chaos Emeralds+The Ruby allowing for warping through time.
 
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Ok so been playing frontiers and

Every statment the game makes on sonic escaping says he did it via sheer skill, seems to imply to me portals just eixst in cyberspace to leave it's just there so hard to get too noone but sonic can get there

I also have many questions on how cyberspace works, atm I kinda doubt sage could trap someone in cyberspace anywhere but the island as cyberspace exists within a computer on the island even if it's it's own 3 dimensional space that space is somehow maintained and is connected to the star fall islands, have been holding this in for a few days game is much longer then I thought (or I'm too slow)
 
There is definitely some stuff I was unaware of, like Ifrit Golem being at the point Sonic’s power was no match for it and how Ifrit had to charge up its power, or the possible amps from the world rings, the ARK crash only being surface wiping, or the possibility that the time space rift acting a nexus of time means that Solaris could be in all of time and still at only one point spatially, so they didn’t need to hit across all of time.

Might need to think on it more.
 
I don't know if it's just me being a dick or something, but I swear that this guy's channel reads like someone regurgitating a bunch of shit into AI and then having said AI spat out in a vocal manner.

Like I've seen his two other videos and they just scream of AI usage.
 
I don't know if it's just me being a dick or something, but I swear that this guy's channel reads like someone regurgitating a bunch of shit into AI and then having said AI spat out in a vocal manner.

Like I've seen his two other videos and they just scream of AI usage.
I mean it is a small channel to be fair.
 
So basically summed up as

-FEB didn’t destroy stars, just planets, and Emerl couldn’t fight at full potential/Sonic wasn’t as strong as him and thus had to abuse Emerl’s vulnerabilities. FEB destroying only planets is consistent with Eggman’s ultimate weapon only having the energy to destroy a planet 4x over.

-Lost World EggRobo didn’t absorb the planet’s full energy and wasn’t Eggman’s strongest mech overall, just the strongest he could build on the continent
-Sonic doesn’t scale to the Ifrit Golem who can burn half the universe due to an in game mission description saying his power isn’t enough, needing to aim for a weak point, and Ifrit Golem needing to charge up to do his feat, Arabian Nights being a single universe, the infinite corridor only being traversed by Sonic hitting hourglasses and not actually being infinite, and Erazor didn’t absorb the words and put all of them into the djinn, with the words not being universal due to space visibly still being present despite Erazor holding most of the words, along with Sonic being amped by the world rings against base Erazor due to the emotions of the rings flowing through him. Darkspine Sonic also had all 7 world rings cuz there are four around his limbs along with 3 in his body. King Shahryar doesn’t scale to the cosmology as he’s not it’s direct creator, he just writes the stories that eventually spawned the Nights.

-Egg Salamander requires the chaos and sol emeralds combined to make his dimension, the fusing of the worlds is only possible through the chaos and sol emeralds combined, and the fusion works by dimensional BFRing a universe via the fusion of 14 Emeralds. Egg Wizard can’t fuse dimensions and just allows parallel dimensions to continue coexisting, and is stronger than the 14 Emeralds. Basically arguing that the 14 Emeralds is an exponential boost over 7.

-Base Sonic doesn’t scale at all to Time Eater, the instance of it in Gens 3DS was him pushing Time Eater into a portal and TE was suppressed against base Sonic, Time Eater doesn’t erase space time and just removes the flow of time, he didn’t erase all of space time and was just erasing time according to an interview, and they have to hit a weak spot due to it being far stronger than super sonic. It also only affected one timeline, and doesn’t rewrite events as much as it just changes the past to cause new events via time travel.

-Infinite’s creations are all fake including the sun, null space is fake and not infinite size cuz Sonic just says he can’t see the end to the space (and the space fits within the boss arena for the Death Egg Robot which just extends to a small portion of Eggman Empire fortress), and Sonic doesn’t scale to Infinite fully by the end. Phantom Ruby doesn’t upscale Master Emerald, the Ruby didn’t create Egg Reverie because it’s only shown to do teleporting, and Egg Reverie is just at the top of titanic monarch and not a separate dimension, along with phantom Ruby creations still being base Sonic tier, and heavy king not being super form tier cuz of the phantom Ruby due to being in his phantom form prior to having the ruby.

-Maginaryworld isn’t a multiverse because each of the dreams are things like forests or an island and all dreams can coalesce into one universe, plus only the dream versions of Team Sonic scale.

-Super forms aren’t invincible due to being damaged by multiple things, they don’t have unlimited stamina due to the times where they have run out of juice and need to recharge, and do have a time limit.

-Sonic doesn’t actually get stronger at all cuz Classic Sonic is relative to him, Sonic was using Wisps to empower himself so didn’t get stronger in Colors, Sonic only beat Chaos’s higher forms via aiming at their weak spots and Perfect Chaos still one shots him in Otherworld, along with the Gens fight being Perfect Chaos phase 2 instead of the whole fight, backed up by Shadow fighting Metal Overlord only and not all of Metal’s forms. Using hit point scaling also makes base Sonic weaker in Gens than SA2. Chaos 0 also still scales to base Sonic so PC scaling doesn’t work. Metal Overlord and Devil Doom scaling don’t work due to having to hit their weak points, and Devil Doom grew stronger along with base Shadow so there’s no progression.

-The End’s line doesn’t prove it’s stronger than previous bosses, as it also mentions it’s nothing which would make it weaker, and Ian just said it was referring to itself as timeless rather than stronger, and was just boasting. It’s also relative to Dark Gaia who was planet busting, and Light Gaia is stronger than Super Sonic due to breaking through Dark Gaia’s barrier when super Sonic couldn’t, with Sonic only scaling to dark Gaia’s eye weak points. Sonic didn’t get stronger in Battle, he just stopped holding back due to his need to protect things growing stronger and the dialogue is non-canon.

-Egg Emperor and EggRobo Lost World are equal showing no power growth, power cores used to amp Eggman’s robots in Heroes still can match base form characters post-Forces, the characters struggle with a Gamma prototype, Omega goes even with a Gemerl weaker than his Advance 3 self, Shadow in Shadow Gens defeats Chaos Island soldiers relative to Sonic with 3 cyber amps in Frontiers, Knuckles says the Titans aren’t the strongest things they’ve fought but Sonic still needs to go at them at his best to win, meaning older bosses are superior if they require multiple super forms. Black Doom > Shadow at the beginning of Shadow Gens, a Mecha Sonic with no upgrades since Sonic 3 was relative to modern Sonic, the Badnik train made 32 years ago could match full power Team Sonic post Forces, Fake Emeralds < Chaos Emeralds can hurt and one shot the cast, Heavy King says the 7 Emeralds are far above any of the base cast and that no one who uses Emeralds that the base cast harms can use their full power, Infinite’s hype statements only applied to the four characters before him. Solaris eating the past means he killed the End’s true form, Time Eater, and other super form bosses, showing his superiority.

-Solaris was stuck in the space-time intersection/nexus, which was a merging point for the timeline/time points. Past/present/future coexist in one point in the time space rift, the point Solaris occupies, and the hedgehogs constantly switch off and fight Solaris one at a time, so they weren’t fighting him across all of time, just one Solaris that was the fusion of him across all time, fought in a void at the heart of the time space rift. Sonic wasn’t > Solaris and the hedgehogs needed to damage Solaris’ weak point, and could only damage his weak point, to defeat him, and needed to be supercharged by emotional energy to do so.

-Sonic uses time stones and panels to time travel, only needing to go LS to do so and was supposedly retconned by Chaos Control. Many characters are affected by chaos control or Time Eater’s time Hax despite being supposed immeasurable speed, Sonic needs to use dual chaos control to time travel which wouldn’t be needed with immeasurable speed.

-Sonic can’t go Lightspeed in base due to multiple statements of him going sound speed in the cover stories, Sonic going Mach speed as his top in ‘06, Sonic going sound speed in Battle, Sonic needs the boost to go Mach 1 and Vector needs an amp to be subsonic, Eggman calling Sonic impressive for being Mach 1, Surge being LS was a boast. Sonic Channel says Sonic goes at sublight speed, Surge with dynamo cage speed amps gets blitzed by lightspeed cyan wisp, Omega says Sonic with wisp amps will only potentially exceed LS if he keeps going at that pace, Sonic Unleashed manual saying Sonic needs the boost to go Mach 1 contradicts the guidebook stating he runs everywhere at lightspeed (or could just be an exaggeration/light speed dash reference), and the Unleashed Boost being > LS dash is a game mechanic due to the boost being slower in other games.

-Emeralds don’t actually have infinite power default, could be referring to their ultimate power or how they can self-recharge energy to produce endless energy. The Emeralds also don’t have infinite power feats, as perfect chaos absorbing them could only flood a planet over time, the eclipse cannon with all 7 emeralds and the ark would only surface wipe, and the piercing the stars is likely actually planets instead because the 7 emeralds could only surface wipe. The Eclipse cannon at .5% being able to destroy a small city means at 100% they would only be large mountain, consistent with how the ancients’ cannon that one shot super Sonic and was almost eclipse cannon level could destroy a small mountain. Shadow needs the EC to destroy the black comet. Mentions that Emerl with the 7 Emeralds could destroy a planet, but noted that Emerl was more powerful in the past and that his feat of destroying the Ark was overtime, meaning him destroying the planet was also likely overtime. Ruby’s power was less than that needed to destroy the Earth 4x over but Eggman with the Ruby was ~ Super Sonic, and Dark Gaia needed to sleep for millions of years to planet bust and Super Sonic is inferior, and the Phantom Ruby doesn’t break the boundaries of dimensions, it was the Chaos Emeralds+The Ruby allowing for warping through time.
Basically it is all shit
 
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