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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
Testarossa002
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Highly doubt thatSpeaking of the 30% Scaling, wouldn’t it be 30% of Itachi and Kisame’s Chakra ONTOP of the people’s chakra they were controlling? Dude seemed like he was top 5 in Suna…
The jutsu kinda overwrites the host
Similar to how an edo's strength isn't determined by how strong the host's corpse is
MinatoSparkle
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Nvm, I changed my mind
MinatoSparkle
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Nvm, I changed my mind
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Ideally, but unlikelySpeaking of the 30% Scaling, wouldn’t it be 30% of Itachi and Kisame’s Chakra ONTOP of the people’s chakra they were controlling? Dude seemed like he was top 5 in Suna…
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@MinatoSparkle Do you have the Raws for the Control Jutsu and Translation?
MinatoSparkle
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Control Jutsu?
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The 30% Jutsu from Pain.
MinatoSparkle
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One particular part or the whole page?
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Looks like Viz did it again....
Ghostimuscrime
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I agree with this but even if one counted the hosts power its probably insignificant in contrast
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Whole page I guess. I just want to know if it overwrites the victim or not and not additive.
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Not necessarily. It would mean that we can’t simply say Kakashi and Guy only scale to 30% Itachi & Kisame because it’s 30% of their power ontop of a whole ass elite Ninja. And Iirc, Yura is one of the top Jonin in Suna.
So it makes it unquantifiable/unusable for Scaling Purposes.
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Couldn't Guy and Kakashi just have an "At Least" in the Tier they scale to the 30% Clones?
Since "At Least" is used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate. The Clones are 30% of Itachi and Kisame's power with the addition of the host bodies' own power
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Yeah so I reread Chapter 260. Kakashi was able to notice some differences in the Itachi Clone. If there are noticeable aspects of Yura still in the Jutsu, then it can be argued they aren’t 100% overwritten.
Obviously Yura =\= Itachi, but this means Yura + 30% Itachi > 30% Itachi alone and we do know that unless Killed, the sacrifice doesn’t “die” until after the Jutsu is lifted (Pending MS’s Translation)
Obviously Yura =\= Itachi, but this means Yura + 30% Itachi > 30% Itachi alone and we do know that unless Killed, the sacrifice doesn’t “die” until after the Jutsu is lifted (Pending MS’s Translation)
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Trust me, considering where Itachi and Kisame will probably end up scale, the host body's power will be super negligible.
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I think “likely higher” would be better here and they were still highly competitive with Kakashi and Guy. “At Least” carries the connotation that it’s a lower bench for them, if that makes sense?
Testarossa002
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Well, yeah
It's not Itachi at full power
Which is why Kakashi thought something was off
He couldn’t tell outrightly because he didn't know the jutsu in effect
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For stamina purposes, it would matter bc it would mean the Clone wouldn’t be “fatigued”. If that makes sense, just a lesser version of Itachi.
I guess I wouldn’t be mad if it were simply “fatigued” Itachi & Kisame, but… I just want to make sure bc idt Yura is absolute Fodder to Kakashi at this point and that has to play a factor at least.
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I doubt this is the case. If Itachi was simply fatigued and fighting, emphasis wouldn’t have been placed on the clone. If the Jutsu was a true 100% overwrite, there is no emphasis on the clone bc nothing they did would show through. Ntm, Itachi straight told him he couldn’t use MS atm.
The implication is Kakashi noticed something more than him just being simply fatigued.
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What's wrong with that? Why not combine both then?
At Least X (Fought a clone that possess 30% of X's power), likely higher (Said clone also possesses the power of its host body)
Testarossa002
Username Only- 2,794
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Nobody laid emphasis on the clone
Certainly not Kakashi
All he mentioned was how something wasn't quite right
The databook also mentions that the host dies once the 30% chakra is exhausted
If the host's chakra had any bearing on it, they wouldn't be dying if the 30% chakra is gone
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The narrative laid emphasis on the clone by having Kakashi voice he noticed something off after they all discovered it was a clone.
Refer above.
Yes, that’s the mechanic of the Jutsu. It doesn’t also imply the host plays mo factor in the strength of the clone either.
Not necessarily true. The Jutsu’s mechanism could just result in that. For example, Orochimaru’s Immortal Jutsu that allows him to take over the body of another doesn’t expressly say the host body gives him any benefit either outside of giving him access to their abilities, but what we know based on how the verse works, Orochimaru’s is only transferring his Yin Chakra / Consciousness and suppressing the Yin Chakra & Consciousness of those he takes. Their Physicals & Yang Chakra still play a part in how strong or not Orochimaru becomes.
Though, I’ve been giving it more and more thought and I think I agree with @UchihaSlayer96 Yura’s power would be negligible either way, even if his body being used has the affect of “He’s not Fatigued”.
It’ll be irrelevant either way, so…
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Interesting that you brought this up.
Based on this, how strong do you think Sasukemaru (Hebi Sasuke basically) actually was?
Yeah, like, I did the math and with the new values someone like Yura won't even amount to 0.1% of people like Itachi, Kisame, Kakashi, etc.
Granted, I don't believe the gap is that large in-verse at all, but for Wiki purposes, it just won't matter.
MinatoSparkle
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Ah, so 0.09% for fodder/background peeps then gotcha
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Real.
(Wasn't referring to the Impersonation Jutsu stuff.)
What? The difference between Kakashi tiers (50-ish Megatons) and baseline Jonin (where Yura would be if he had a profile) is well over 1000x. It's even higher for people like Kisame and Itachi.
Add to that the fact that the baseline Jonin will be heavily downgraded and the Kakashi/Kisame tiers will likely be upgraded, and the difference will be even larger.
MinatoSparkle
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Something else you discovered?
Ah fair, I thought you meant the difference between Kakashi and elite jonin tier would become more than 1000x, which doesn't really make sense since that's what he currently scales to
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https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/999477322958770267/1305229110225932288/Screenshot_2024-11-10_12.54.03_PM.png?ex=673244d5&is=6730f355&hm=98ca1920364a3beaa5715b7805c0fcc7383258aa6a771b51c9effd0c3c907344&
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I didn't discover it, but it was pointed out to me that this statement is whack.Something else you discovered?
Which to me implies parity between them, at least more so than the Viz version.
And to me that makes a fair bit of sense given that BoS Naruto wasn't terribly far off of Kakashi, so him getting to Kakashi's level after training for a bit and "surpassing him" with the FRS makes a lot of sense to me the more I think about it.
Credit to Shadow for the above TL.
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This is NOT taken out of context btw
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This is NOT taken out of context btw
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Personally, there is no real difference. Sasuke was already stronger than Orochimaru’s Yin Chakra at that point with just his CSM 1 + 3 TM and he was actively suppressing that power after he overtook Orochimaru.
This is going to be a nuanced take, but this is essentially how I see it breaking down: In order to gain the increased healing benefit from the Power of The White Snake, Sasuke has to be using Oro’s Yin Chakra to some degree (Just like Naruto get’s his healing factor through Kurama’s chakra influence), but at the same time, Sasuke is mostly suppressing Orochimaru’s power.
So for the same reason Tsunade is argued to not be at 100% output due to keeping her youthful appearance, it could be argued Hebi Sasuke isn’t 100% due to actively keeping Orochimaru suppressed.
If it were a point system it’ll be:
- BoShippuden Sasuke = 100%
- Orochimaru’s Yin Chakra = +1
- Sasuke Suppressing Chakra = -0.95
NOTE: The numbers are arbitrary, just to illustrate my thinking on it. It’s unquantifiable at the end of the day.
MinatoSparkle
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Er
This number 9 large will rickroll any filthy, simping Uchiha in sight, Harambe will revive and take his rightful place above these inferior creatures
Yeah, nobody is forced to do this at all, but it sure does help us visualize and keep track of large scaling chains. It also helps us take notice of any circular scaling more easily. Won't be surprised if this practice becomes more common among future HST CRTs Arc, KT, & US69
This number 9 large will rickroll any filthy, simping Uchiha in sight, Harambe will revive and take his rightful place above these inferior creatures
Gotta say, Slayer's bible of a retort is more convincing to me atm. Especially since he's negging that poo poo SM Nard physicals ~ SM RS scaling finally
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If it happened over a year ago, it's automatically erased from my memory banks.Er
Errr
ErrrrrrrrrrrrThis number 9 large will rickroll any filthy, simping Uchiha in sight, Harambe will revive and take his rightful place above these inferior creatures
Yeah, nobody is forced to do this at all, but it sure does help us visualize and keep track of large scaling chains. It also helps us take notice of any circular scaling more easily. Won't be surprised if this practice becomes more common among future HST CRTs Arc, KT, & US69vsbattles.com
This number 9 large will rickroll any filthy, simping Uchiha in sight, Harambe will revive and take his rightful place above these inferior creatures
Gotta say, Slayer's bible of a retort is more convincing to me atm. Especially since he's negging that poo poo SM Nard physicals ~ SM RS scaling finally
MinatoSparkle
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I was too ahead of my timeIf it happened over a year ago, it's automatically erased from my memory banks.
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I was too ahead of my time
