Tensura LN Cosmology Upgrade Tier 1 (Retry)

[Mizuki67]

Spoiler:
So basically our previous thread did not end really well because it was pretty messy

The reason why i made this thread again is because I believe that Tensura could have a hypertimeline

CodeCCLL/TSSDK Timelines & Hypertimelines Explanation

vsbattles.fandom.com

Who will scale ?
-Velgrynd range will scale to low 1C since she can travel to other worlds and dimensions
-True Dragons (Characters who can destroy dimensions which would scale to Ultimate Skill and Disintegration magic users as well.)
-Great Spirits and VOTW
-Veldanava
- those who have large size type 9 will have type 10

 

[SpadeZ]

Following... actually how many staff and non-staff member Needed for tier 1?.
(I have not been on this site for quite a while so i don't know if there any rule change)

 

[Mizuki67]

Following... actually how many staff and non-staff member Needed for tier 1?.
(I have not been on this site for quite a while so i don't know if there any rule change)

3 are needed however given quased already gave his input on this matter only 2 is necessary for us but I called another staff anyways incase it is necessary

 

[Georredannea15]

1- Qawsedf was claiming that this could give you, but he did not think that such a situation was in Tensura... So no, he doesn't really count as having voted. In fact, if we say he cast a vote, we can think of it as a "refuse."

2- My thoughts are still the same, rather than these being snapshots, they are discrete timelines that are juxtaposed and extend forever, that is why there is a 2-A situation in the verse. As I have illustrated before, think of it as multiple 1D lines lined up side by side... So, these are not the snapshots... These travels are made between alternative timelines... the verse even states that these are parallel timelines.

Edit : As noted in the OP, the fact that these travels were done between parallel timelines almost rejects 5-D in the firs place

 

[Mizuki67]

1- Qawsedf was claiming that this could give you, but he did not think that such a situation was in Tensura... So no, he doesn't really count as having voted. In fact, if we say he cast a vote, we can think of it as a "refuse."

Edit : As noted in the OP, the fact that these travels were done between parallel timelines almost rejects 5-D in the firs place

You want to play guessing game ? Be my guest

1)Elizhaa just so happened to agree with you because you were the only one showing up in the thread trying to reply to other people and we can argue that she was rushing to come up with a reply because she was busy. In other words it is highly unlikely that she even see you argue about the hypertimeline

2)Arguments already adressed again you are not bringing anything new to the table -_-. How many times do you have to bring this up. I take it as you are derailing because you had conceded us before. You ignored Astral reply a couple of times lmao why should we think that you are reliable

Anothrr thing, Qawsed did not reply on the matter after astral gave him a reply, so what you do is just assuming that he does not agree and I am pretty sure he already knew it and looked over at our scans which he have no problems with. You cannot say that he did not look at the OP at all and blindly gave his input what is the reason for that ?

 

[Berga14]

1- Qawsedf was claiming that this could give you, but he did not think that such a situation was in Tensura... So no, he doesn't really count as having voted. In fact, if we say he cast a vote, we can think of it as a "refuse."

2- My thoughts are still the same, rather than these being snapshots, they are discrete timelines that are juxtaposed and extend forever, that is why there is a 2-A situation in the verse. As I have illustrated before, think of it as multiple 1D lines lined up side by side... So, these are not the snapshots... These travels are made between alternative timelines... the verse even states that these are parallel timelines.

Edit : As noted in the OP, the fact that these travels were done between parallel timelines almost rejects 5-D in the firs place

Already addressed. The parallel timeline thing is debunked in the same scan where it is proposed, idk why you keep bringing this up.

Elizhaa just so happened to agree with you because you are the only one showing up in the thread trying to comment

Elizhaa rejected the 6D scaling which is discussed in the first 5 pages in the old crt. The 5D proposal is only in the 6th page and no staff gave any real opinion on it.

SO FOR EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO WRITE IN THIS CRT, READ THE PREVIOUS CRT, DO NOT USE ALREADY ADDRESSED AGRUMENTS.

 

[Incomprehensibleexistence]

Agree with OP

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Spoiler:
So basically our previous thread did not end really well because it was pretty messy

@Qawsedf234 however mentioned that 5D could be possible with each iteration being 4D.

Qawsedf234:
This might give you a 5D rating, but only of the snap shots are previous multiverse states rather than a continous line.

TenSura LN Major Revision - Slime-Verse Salvation - Tier 1 Upgrade

You are forgetting that this is not how things work in TenSura, so let's go deeper into the idea of "different non-orthogonal directions" of time by simplifying the matter into a geometrical model: Consider a tetra-dimensional space where: X-axis represents the spatial dimensions. The Y-axis...

vsbattles.com

Also give credits to @Ashborn69 for this input

Ashborn69:
If individual timelines share the same time axis but have different outcomes, the "World" that governs them still operates on an orthogonal time axis for the following reasons:

Meta-Temporal Governance: The "World" oversees multiple timelines, influencing them simultaneously. For this to happen, it must exist in a higher-dimensional space, allowing it to transcend the individual timelines' time axis.

Time Travel Between Timelines: Characters like Chloe and Velgrynd can travel between timelines using the "World's time," suggesting it operates in a 5D framework, independent of the 4D time within each timeline.

Functional Orthogonality: The "World" can manipulate or reset timelines with divergent events, implying its time axis is orthogonal to those timelines, giving it control beyond the internal time structure of any one timeline.

An infinite number of timelines cannot coexist simultaneously because of the Rule of the World (i.e., to prevent contradictions). This implies that each timeline is placed along a separate time axis governed by the "World" itself. The only way to logically manage multiple distinct 4D timelines is to have a higher-dimensional structure (5D) that acts as a meta-time axis, controlling the flow and remaking of these timelines. This is comparable to a hypertimeline, which is a structure that exists beyond any one 4D continuum and can navigate or contain multiple such continuums.


The reason why i made this thread again is because I firmly believe that Tensura could have a hypertimeline

Also Disclaimer:
The scans could not work now because my friend was banned from Imgur however you can check out our old cosmology page in the mean time as some of the scans are still there

Tensura Cosmology Page (Light Novel)

This explanation page will be explain cosmology of Light Novel continuity of the Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken, or Tensura for short.

vsbattles.fandom.com

and this was already previously discussed in the previous thread so you can check here as well:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/tensu...-verse-salvation-tier-1-upgrade.171848/page-6

We will try to get back the scans that we lost if it is possible. We just need some time

Here is the blog me and my friend just created:

Berga14/COSMOLOGY sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Who will scale ?
-Chloe range will scale to 2A-Low 1C since she has the ability to access the 5d space and enter to those snapshots (which is an infinite and endless amount of them)
-True Dragons (Characters who can destroy worlds and dimensions which would scale to Ultimate Skill and Disintegration magic users as well.)
-Great Spirits and VOTW

I am fine with this for the same reasons I gave in the previous thread

-Veldanava

Assuming this is referring to his avatar, sure. But keep God out of this

other then that, are the Iinks actuaIIy working for yaII? because Im stiII getting errors and cant view them

AIso, regarding the ParaIIeI TimeIine thing and how that rejects 5D, no. That wouId onIy be the case if ChIoe was traveIIing via some DimensionaI traveI or spatiaI abiIity, but in this case its expIicitIy a Time TraveI abiIity. You do not simpIy go to other timeIines whiIe traveIIing in the same 4D Time that a singIe timeIine has

 

[Berga14]

I am fine with this for the same reasons I gave in the previous thread

Assuming this is referring to his avatar, sure. But keep God out of this

other then that, are the Iinks actuaIIy working for yaII? because Im stiII getting errors and cant view them

AIso, regarding the ParaIIeI TimeIine thing and how that rejects 5D, no. That wouId onIy be the case if ChIoe was traveIIing via some DimensionaI traveI or spatiaI abiIity, but in this case its expIicitIy a Time TraveI abiIity. You do not simpIy go to other timeIines whiIe traveIIing in the same 4D Time that a singIe timeIine has

Still not working, hope this will be fixed soon

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

Looks fine to me

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Still not working, hope this will be fixed soon

HopefuIIy, I sent a report a second time today

 

[Tempestdragon6]

agree because all the things have been addressed

 

[CodeCCLL]

Despite Feldway's destruction of the "Cardinal universe" in Volume 21, I still agree with the idea of each dimension having its own hypertimeline along with the time travel performed by Rimuru, but there are some points about Chloe's time travel that I disagree with and Velgrynd's dimensional travel/time travel that I am neutral about until the scans are redone.

(After the scans redone, I will express my concerns about the parts related to Chloe and Velgrynd here or in the general discussion thread, depending on the situation)

However, as in the previous thread, I think it is likely that this thread will get bogged down, with some people being absurdly opposed, probably out of ignorance or disbelief, and still repeating the counter-arguments to the outlandish proposal in the previous thread, and consequently no one knowledgeable (about hypertimelines) staff will be able to address the main arguments.

I hope the staff will at least address the arguments in their entirety this time and that this will be the end of it, regardless of the conclusion.

 

[Berga14]

, I still agree with the idea of each dimension having its own hypertimeline along with the time travel performed by Rimuru,

This is something that will be done later, but it probably involves 1A stuff according to Astral so for now we can leave it alone.

with some people being absurdly opposed, probably out of ignorance or disbelief, and still repeating the counter-arguments to the outlandish proposal in the previous thread,

Report everyone lol

 

[CodeCCLL]

This is something that will be done later, but it probably involves 1A stuff according to Astral so for now we can leave it alone.

As I've already mentioned, I disagree with the argument that Chloe is traveling in the hypertimeline. For me, Rimuru's time travel is the only way to argue that the temporal axes of dimensions are independent of the temporal axes of the space-time continuums they encompass.

 

[Mizuki67]

As I've already mentioned, I disagree with the argument that Chloe is traveling in the hypertimeline. For me, Rimuru's time travel is the only way to argue that the temporal axes of dimensions are independent of the temporal axes of the space-time continuums they encompass.

would you elaborate on that so I can understand.

 

[CodeCCLL]

would you elaborate on that so I can understand ?

I think that your arguments about Chloe travelling in the Hypertimeline are just a conclusion of the system created by Veldanava. The system tries to avoid logical contradictions, and for this reason, no one except Ultimate Skill users can do anything against the system, and only Chloe can defy the system by having the Ultimate Skill required to time travel independently of the system.

The system cannot prevent Chloe from time travelling through her Ultimate Skill, but in Volume 21, it indirectly prevents Chloe from time travelling by using the Hypertimeline used by Rimuru, trapping her in an infinite loop where every snapshot of the timeline branches.

And in Volume 21, the system is unable to branch the timeline because Rimuru moves in the same temporal dimension as the system while travelling through time. Chloe's inability to time travel at the end of space-time proves that only Rimuru can use the Hypertimeline.

These are my thoughts.

 

[CodeCCLL]

By the way, in terms of cosmology events, Loki Season 2 and Tensura really resemble each other. It's just that in the MCU, main timeline branch out in an uncountably infinite timelines.

Spoiler: Look at the similarity.

Those who watch both series can easily establish the relationship

•Kang=Veldanava
•Loki=Rimuru
•Alioth=Ivaraj
•TVA=Voice of the World/System

Only Feldway and Sylvie are a little different.

 

[Berga14]

I think that your arguments about Chloe travelling in the Hypertimeline are just a conclusion of the system created by Veldanava. The system tries to avoid logical contradictions, and for this reason, no one except Ultimate Skill users can do anything against the system, and only Chloe can defy the system by having the Ultimate Skill required to time travel independently of the

Here we can argue 2 hypertimeline one for the dimension and one for the worlds, Rimuru is endeed traveling on a bigger hypetimeline, but i still think that Chloe is traveling in the world one. (Just to make it clear: we aren't using Rimuru time travel for this 5D, we are using the stataments regarding the state of the timeline and the world). But well, the dimension hypertimeline can be argued as a quantitative superiority over a 1A structure so i think we shouldn't talk about it here.


Another thing: the first thing you sayd about chloe isn't a debunk for a world's hypertimeline nor a debunk of her traveling in it, what you sayd can just be "how" Chloe does it (...only Chloe can defy the system by having the Ultimate Skill required to time travel independently of the system...)

The system cannot prevent Chloe from time travelling through her Ultimate Skill, but in Volume 21, it indirectly prevents Chloe from time travelling by using the Hypertimeline used by Rimuru, trapping her in an infinite loop where every snapshot of the timeline branches.

The hypertimeline that Rimuru is using isn't the one that is being proposed here. But it looks like a quite interesting theory.

And in Volume 21, the system is unable to branch the timeline because Rimuru moves in the same temporal dimension as the system while travelling through time. Chloe's inability to time travel at the end of space-time proves that only Rimuru can use the Hypertimeline.

This can be explained by this: Chloe can't due to the inexistence of the world hypertimeline, she never time travelled using the dimension's one.
So are you saying that worlds doesn't have an hypertimeline while dimensions have one or did you get confused by past crt on what we were proposing?

Edit: high tech rappresentationhttps://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1233703899324481637/1285636792493805690/Screenshot_20240917_182108_Samsung_Notes.jpg?ex=66eafe11&is=66e9ac91&hm=ff3f648335aa1e4c08a05e7c29afd2044eb2cfd34345c80ec49848eff513f0c9&

 

[Berga14]

By the way, in terms of cosmology events, Loki Season 2 and Tensura really resemble each other. It's just that in the MCU, main timelines branch out in an uncountably infinite timelines.

Spoiler: Look at the similarity.

Those who watch both series can easily establish the relationship

•Kang=Veldanava
•Loki=Rimuru
•Alioth=Ivaraj
•TVA=Voice of the World/System

Only Feldway and Sylvie are a little different.

Idk about this, i only watched season 1

 

[CodeCCLL]

While a hypertimeline could explain everything, I really need a good justification for interpreting any statement as higher or lower.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

I really don't want to discuss any of this again, so I'll just say I agree and let it be what it has to be.

 

[Mizuki67]

I think that your arguments about Chloe travelling in the Hypertimeline are just a conclusion of the system created by Veldanava. The system tries to avoid logical contradictions, and for this reason, no one except Ultimate Skill users can do anything against the system, and only Chloe can defy the system by having the Ultimate Skill required to time travel independently of the system

Can u explain what you disagree about Chloe time travel ?

Are u saying that the timelines will remain 2A because they are just system made by Veldanava ? I am confused here. It does not deny the fact that travelling in time means travelling through other timelines in the universe. Another thing to note is that the world prevent 2 of the same soul to exist on the same timeline. Isn't that part of the system too ? Also the reason why I think a hyper timeline could be involved is because the verse explicitly mention that time travel usually operates on the same axis of time and it will lead you to different outcome or events

However, the only problem here is that the previous op said the timelines are parallel, seperate and very distinct that is why people disagree

The system cannot prevent Chloe from time travelling through her Ultimate Skill, but in Volume 21, it indirectly prevents Chloe from time travelling by using the Hypertimeline used by Rimuru, trapping her in an infinite loop where every snapshot of the timeline branches.

And in Volume 21, the system is unable to branch the timeline because Rimuru moves in the same temporal dimension as the system while travelling through time. Chloe's inability to time travel at the end of space-time proves that only Rimuru can use the Hypertimeline.

These are my thoughts.

Honestly I don't mind changing my explanation to this. This does kind of make sense though but it will take some time for me to edit the sandbox

I would like to ask what would be the range of time stop if this idea works would it be 5D ?

 

[CodeCCLL]

Apparently, there is a point I missed in the part about Velgrynd, I will come back here after clarifying it in my mind. Please try to redone the scans, otherwise what we are discussing here will mean nothing.

 

[Mizuki67]

Apparently, there is a point I missed in the part about Velgrynd, I will come back here after clarifying it in my mind. Please try to redone the scans, otherwise what we are discussing here will mean nothing.

I could but it will take a while. I might have to put this thread in hold for a while. Apparently imgur has deleted like 5k of our scans. We have made a complain to it and has yet to respond

 

[CodeCCLL]

I could but it will take a while. I might have to put this thread in hold for a while. Apparently imgur has deleted like 5k of our scans. We have made a complain to it and has yet to respond

My analytical prediction skills are still intact.
(I think it makes the most sense to split the scans across multiple imgur accounts)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

My analytical prediction skills are still intact.

xD

(I think it makes the most sense to split the scans across multiple imgur accounts)

Makes sense, but each imgur account needs a separate number unless one is login-in from a third-party app. Not everyone has that.
I think I would just shift to Gyazo completely if imgur doesnt respond in a few days.
Tho its a pain that I cant make a single link contain multiple scans unlike imgur

 

[Georredannea15]

Already addressed. The parallel timeline thing is debunked in the same scan where it is proposed, idk why you keep bringing this up.

Actually, it doesn't disprove it, because the scan directly states that these are different and parallel timelines... Which already disproves that these timelines are snapshots in time... So, they are just "timelines..."

You still say "If they are not flowing in perpendicular dimensional directions then they must be snapshots" but no, they are not. There's no such necessity.

2)Arguments already adressed again you are not bringing anything new to the table -_-. How many times do you have to bring this up. I take it as you are derailing because you had conceded us before. You ignored Astral reply a couple of times lmao why should we think that you are reliable

You have not handled the arguments correctly. I'm still saying the same things because these are the reasons why there will be no 5-D... And still the same, I don't need to bring anything different, they already explain and refute it why it's not 5-D. If you still have a problem, then change the standards.

And also, I'm not ignoring what Astral said. You can think that I am answering all of you in a way, just because what you and Astral say above and below is basically the same.

 

[Berga14]

Actually, it doesn't disprove it, because the scan directly states that these are different and parallel timelines... Which already disproves that these timelines are snapshots in time... So, they are just "timelines..."

At this point is better for you to read the entire chapter.
The perallel thing is JUST A GUESS from Hinata not a stataments on how timelines works. And that guess is stated wrong some sentences later so stop ignoring the context.

You still say "If they are not flowing in perpendicular dimensional directions then they must be snapshots" but no, they are not. There's no such necessity.

Don't try to put words in my mouth.
I'm not creating a hypertimeline out of nothing because of "If they are not flowing in perpendicular dimensional directions then they must be snapshots".

You have not handled the arguments correctly. I'm still saying the same things because these are the reasons why there will be no 5-D... And still the same, I don't need to bring anything different, they already explain and refute it why it's not 5-D. If you still have a problem, then change the standards.

We literally proved your argument wrong. And you keep bringing this up. At this point is not a metter of standards, you are just clogging this crt. So unless you can make a real new argument (or a debunk to ours debunk) stop replying.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Actually, it doesn't disprove it, because the scan directly states that these are different and parallel timelines... Which already disproves that these timelines are snapshots in time... So, they are just "timelines..."

Geor come on, you know I've got nothing against you. But this is really a waste of my time, would you mind stopping repeating the same things and addressing the main argument?

Rimuru time travelled to the already destroyed timeline of the cardinal universe using the time axis of the cardinal dimension. The fact that the destruction of the cardinal universe does not affect the timeline of the cardinal dimension clearly shows that the temporal dimensions are independent of each other and that they cut each other. Moreover, as we saw in Chloe's time travel through the space-time continuum of the cardinal universe, a time travel that would cause paradoxes even for someone independent of the system would only lead to the branching of the world by the system and the creation of a new timeline.

If the timeline of the cardinal dimension were an overarching timeline that did not intersect other timelines but only paralleled them, the two examples I have given would never have happened. In the first case Rimuru could never have travelled to a point where the space-time continuum was destroyed, and even if he could, he would have only travelled to another branching timeline.

Indeed, if Tensura does not have a Hypertimeline, I really wonder how the other verses get there without saying "in this multiverse there are two temporal axes orthogonal to each other". Someone should really explain this.

 

[Curcuma_x_curcuma]

Geor come on, you know I've got nothing against you. But this is really a waste of my time, would you mind stopping repeating the same things and addressing the main argument?

Rimuru time travelled to the already destroyed timeline of the cardinal universe using the time axis of the cardinal dimension. The fact that the destruction of the cardinal universe does not affect the timeline of the cardinal dimension clearly shows that the temporal dimensions are independent of each other and that they cut each other. Moreover, as we saw in Chloe's time travel through the space-time continuum of the cardinal universe, a time travel that would cause paradoxes even for someone independent of the system would only lead to the branching of the world by the system and the creation of a new timeline.

If the timeline of the cardinal dimension were an overarching timeline that did not intersect other timelines but only paralleled them, the two examples I have given would never have happened. In the first case Rimuru could never have travelled to a point where the space-time continuum was destroyed, and even if he could, he would have only travelled to another branching timeline.

Indeed, if Tensura does not have a Hypertimeline, I really wonder how the other verses get there without saying "in this multiverse there are two temporal axes orthogonal to each other". Someone should really explain this.

Sorry, but the question is off topic. In WN, Rimuru was also able to interact with the "hyper time" line (after Yuki destroyed the world, Rimuru was still able to return back)?

 

[CodeCCLL]

orry, but the question is off topic. In WN, Rimuru was also able to interact with the "hyper time" line (after Yuki destroyed the world, Rimuru was still able to return back)?

The same events happens in the web novel, but the explanations there are much more superficial/lack of detail.

 

[Georredannea15]

Geor come on, you know I've got nothing against you. But this is really a waste of my time, would you mind stopping repeating the same things and addressing the main argument?

Rimuru time travelled to the already destroyed timeline of the cardinal universe using the time axis of the cardinal dimension. The fact that the destruction of the cardinal universe does not affect the timeline of the cardinal dimension clearly shows that the temporal dimensions are independent of each other and that they cut each other. Moreover, as we saw in Chloe's time travel through the space-time continuum of the cardinal universe, a time travel that would cause paradoxes even for someone independent of the system would only lead to the branching of the world by the system and the creation of a new timeline.

The cardinal universe is basically unaffected by the effect of the destroyed timeline. It's a good example that they are independent, but I still haven't seen anything about the other ‘cut’ you mentioned. You're still telling me I shouldn't say the same thing, but... What I'm doing is basically saying what's the standards about that, not more.

Actually, it would be nice if I could post my DM messages here, because when I ask to Ultima about thinks like "going back to destroyed time", "bringing back destroyed time", or "going back to the beginning of time", he said "no".

So rather than travelling from a universe/timeline to an another destroyed timeline or travelling something like that, think like that a timeline having 4-D timelines and multiverses at it's own time points/snapshots...

If the timeline of the cardinal dimension were an overarching timeline that did not intersect other timelines but only paralleled them, the two examples I have given would never have happened. In the first case Rimuru could never have travelled to a point where the space-time continuum was destroyed, and even if he could, he would have only travelled to another branching timeline.

Indeed, if Tensura does not have a Hypertimeline, I really wonder how the other verses get there without saying "in this multiverse there are two temporal axes orthogonal to each other". Someone should really explain this.

This example is good for this... And you can think that it's also applies to the place I have scribbled in black above.

Time travel is possible between independent and parallel/non-parallel timelines in the same space, I even gave an example from Ultima in the previous revision... Different timelines, not parallel, not flowing in the same directions but still not hypertimeline and in DT's example time travel is still possible...


If you want an example of this... I can give you the MCU, but there are also branching uncountable infinite timelines and stuffs like that.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Sorry, but the question is off topic. In WN, Rimuru was also able to interact with the "hyper time" line (after Yuki destroyed the world, Rimuru was still able to return back)?

ask that in the generaI discussion thread. I wiII answer when Im back
Its a bit of a Iong expIanation

Rimuru time travelled to the already destroyed timeline of the cardinal universe using the time axis of the cardinal dimension

this

I would say that the fact that Rimuru was literally BFRed to outside the Timeline itself, yet time still somehow flowed, is also a good backing feat. I mean, if you are IiteraIIy outside the 4D Space-time and are fIoating in a hyperspace, you wouldn't experience 4D time to begin with. If the cardinal World's hypertimeline was parallel to the timelines inside it, there wouldnt be any reason for time to still flow, because it would be something like this.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1238981428964888617/1286045010126700574/image.png?ex=66ec7a3f&is=66eb28bf&hm=01066754086e785202333e42ce8e99d6760cf956dd096b8aa6989b3f25da0823&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
So Rimuru wouldnt have experienced Time, But time was still flowing, which means it is something like this.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1238981428964888617/1286045632565612646/image.png?ex=66ec7ad4&is=66eb2954&hm=3d08d68112d4003094942792911a4368a3a9ab75960c11a92ef73241abea912b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=664&height=406
This way, even if Rimuru was outside the timeIines, he would stiII be inside the world itseIf, and even if he was outside 4D time, he would stiII experience Time because there is a hypertimeIine orthogonaI to the space he is in.

《──その後、星すら瞬かぬ宇宙を漂うように彷徨さまよい、この世界の終わりを見届けたのです》

After that, he wandered aimlessly through space, where not even the stars twinkled, and witnessed the end of the world.

This isnt even too hard to understand tbh

Now, one could say, why wouldnt Rimuru travel to another timeline instead? Because it would cause the overlapping contradiction since there is only one timeline in which he doesnt exist, that is, the timeIine he got BFRed out of.

cardinal dimension

Also, this CRT was limited to Universes and otherworlds, not dimensions, so using that feat regarding Rimuru;s BFR would be better.

 

[Georredannea15]

We literally proved your argument wrong. And you keep bringing this up. At this point is not a metter of standards, you are just clogging this crt. So unless you can make a real new argument (or a debunk to ours debunk) stop replying.

I forgot this.

Well, I quoted a lot in the previous revision, I even included it in the general revision and quoted it here, but if you still say "your arguments are wrong", I don't have much to do...

 

[Georredannea15]

ask that in the generaI discussion thread. I wiII answer when Im back
Its a bit of a Iong expIanation

I would say that the fact that Rimuru was literally BFRed to outside the Timeline itself, yet time still somehow flowed, is also a good backing feat. I mean, if you are IiteraIIy outside the 4D Space-time and are fIoating in a hyperspace, you wouldn't experience 4D time to begin with. If the cardinal World's hypertimeline was parallel to the timelines inside it, there wouldnt be any reason for time to still flow, because it would be something like this.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1238981428964888617/1286045010126700574/image.png?ex=66ec7a3f&is=66eb28bf&hm=01066754086e785202333e42ce8e99d6760cf956dd096b8aa6989b3f25da0823&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
So Rimuru wouldnt have experienced Time, But time was still flowing, which means it is something like this.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1238981428964888617/1286045632565612646/image.png?ex=66ec7ad4&is=66eb2954&hm=3d08d68112d4003094942792911a4368a3a9ab75960c11a92ef73241abea912b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=664&height=406
This isnt even too hard to understand tbh

This is it!! Just like in picture 1, you have items to prove their independence... But you don't have enough feats for in image 2... (In fact, I gave an example similar to this in the first revision if you remember.)

But no matter what I say, I think you will be say "you are repeating the same things"...

I can't break prejudice.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

ask that in the generaI discussion thread. I wiII answer when Im back
Its a bit of a Iong expIanation


I would say that the fact that Rimuru was literally BFRed to outside the Timeline itself, yet time still somehow flowed, is also a good backing feat. I mean, if you are IiteraIIy outside the 4D Space-time and are fIoating in a hyperspace, you wouldn't experience 4D time to begin with. If the cardinal World's hypertimeline was parallel to the timelines inside it, there wouldnt be any reason for time to still flow, because it would be something like this.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1238981428964888617/1286045010126700574/image.png?ex=66ec7a3f&is=66eb28bf&hm=01066754086e785202333e42ce8e99d6760cf956dd096b8aa6989b3f25da0823&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
So Rimuru wouldnt have experienced Time, But time was still flowing, which means it is something like this.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1238981428964888617/1286045632565612646/image.png?ex=66ec7ad4&is=66eb2954&hm=3d08d68112d4003094942792911a4368a3a9ab75960c11a92ef73241abea912b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=664&height=406
This way, even if Rimuru was outside the timeIines, he would stiII be inside the world itseIf, and even if he was outside 4D time, he would stiII experience Time because there is a hypertimeIine orthogonaI to the space he is in.



This isnt even too hard to understand tbh

Now, one could say, why wouldnt Rimuru travel to another timeline instead? Because it would cause the overlapping contradiction since there is only one timeline in which he doesnt exist, that is, the timeIine he got BFRed out of.


Also, this CRT was limited to Universes and otherworlds, not dimensions, so using that feat regarding Rimuru;s BFR would be better.

other scans for this btw :

Rimuru getting BFRed outside the TimeIine

流れる時間と、固定しようとする空間の反発。それらが強ければ強いほど、対象を〝時空の彼方かなた〟に葬り去れるのだそうだ。
The stronger the force of time and space, the stronger the repulsion between the two. The stronger they are, the more they can bury the subject beyond time and space.

その時間軸で何が起きたのか、正確にはわかっていない。シエルさんが跳ばされた時点で、全ての物事は終わっていたからだ。
We do not know exactly what happened in that time line. Because once Ciel-san was ejected, the whole thing was over.

Scan of Time stiII passing

跳ばされた先が〝時の彼方〟で、そこから時間経過して〝時空の果て〟に至ったと？
So, the destination of the jump was “beyond time,” and from there time passed to the “end of time and space”?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

This is it!! Just like in picture 1, you have items to prove their independence... But you don't have enough feats for in image 2... (In fact, I gave an example similar to this in the first revision if you remember.)

It is.
If it was image one, there absoluteIy no reason for Rimuru to experience time, since he was stiII outside 4D Time. If the hypertimeIine is not orthogonaI, it would be 4D as weII, which means Rimuru would be outside that as weII.... yet he was not! He stiII experienced time! The end of the World stiII came after time passed after he was ejected outside the 4D TimeIine.

跳ばされた先が〝時の彼方〟で、そこから時間経過して〝時空の果て〟に至ったと？
So, the destination of the jump was “beyond time,” and from there time passed to the “end of time and space”?

《その通りです。フェルドウェイの〝時空跳激震覇クロノサルテーション〟で、我々は時空の彼方へと跳ばされました。そこでは星の寿命はとっくに尽きておりましたが、世界の崩壊へは至っていませんでした。フェルドウェイの力では、基軸世界の宇宙を滅ぼすだけで限界だったのだと推測されます》
That's right. Feldway's “Chrono-Salutation” sent us to beyond space-time, where the life of the stars had long expired, but the world had not yet collapsed. It is assumed that Feldway's power was limited only to destroying the universe of the base world.

But no matter what I say, I think you will be say "you are repeating the same things"...

Wasnt me, mate.

 

[Georredannea15]

It is.
If it was image one, there absoluteIy no reason for Rimuru to experience time, since he was stiII outside 4D Time. If the hypertimeIine is not orthogonaI, it would be 4D as weII, which means Rimuru would be outside that as weII.... yet he was not! He stiII experienced time! The end of the World stiII came after time passed after he was ejected outside the 4D TimeIine.

I don't think this proves anything. So there is no reason to attribute it to this "orthogonaIity"...

He may be outside of time, he may be off this axis, he may even experience this time, but this does not mean a hypertimeline. Well, there is no reason for this?

There isn't much of a feat like this in other verses, actually. But, I don't see any reason why these are hypertimelines. I'm thinking about how it will happen... I mean, not really see a reason. Well, I guess you understand me...

 

[Berga14]

Well, I quoted a lot in the previous revision, I even included it in the general revision and quoted it here, but if you still say "your arguments are wrong", I don't have much to do...

First this. I was talking about you "parallel timeline" argument which got debunked even in the previous revision.

Time travel is possible between independent and parallel/non-parallel timelines in the same space, I even gave an example from Ultima in the previous revision... Different timelines, not parallel, not flowing in the same directions but still not hypertimeline and in DT's example time travel is still possible...

1) Rimuru experiencing time is more or less a proof of the existence of the world time axis and of its indipendency from a normal timeline (well it has also various stataments). It can be used as a support evidence for 5D but it isn't the main argument.
2)those "parallel/non-parallel" timelines don't exist. Only 1 timeline exist, when it ends a new one starts. So when you time travell you are going to a previous timeline and so the timeline where you timetraveled will not exist anymore. So those timeline don't exist within the same space at the same. (Edit²: only 1 of the smaller timelines exist, the world timeline always exist indipendently)

So we have this:
1) a bigger indipendent timeline that has other smaller timelines within itself.
2) the smaller timeline cannot exist at the same time (a timeline ends and a new one starts)
4) a time travel that takes you to a different previous timeline.
5) Chloe being unable to timetravell after the big timeline being destroyed which makes us think that she was using that big one to timetravel.

5D here makes more sense than any other tier in my (and many other) eyes.

Edit: so we all have given a pov (and as far i can see noone is going to step down) so i think that at this point we can stop debating and just wait to staff while we fix the scans.