Dragon Ball: Updates (Planet Vegeta Re-Calc, DBS Manga Downgrade)

[StarShooter80]

Currently we have a few accepted CRTs that never really got properly indexed into the pages/profiles, this thread will be focusing on just implementing two of them since they're the easiest to go through.

Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta Re-Calculation
A new calculation for First Form Frieza's feat was made due to the size of average Planets getting buffed. And was even accepted in this CRT. Here is the AP scaling chain for it:

Ednaxel2/Sandbox1

vsbattles.fandom.com

The only multiplier I added was Third Form Frieza also multiplying strength by 2x based on how each transformation multiplies Frieza's strength many times, with Second Form supporting that by being 2x outright too. Apart from that, there's no changes.

DBS Manga Downgrade
Another CRT that got accepted but was never really implemented was RoF Goku not being 2-C in base anymore. The AP scaling chain for this was already done in the previous AP scaling chain I linked before.

All of the characters scaling to Base RoF Goku/Vegeta or above should be "At least 4-B" this also includes Goku Black Pre-Zamasu Heal

Goku and Vegeta eventually reach 2-C:

• Post-Healing SSJ Goku Black can beat Pre-RoSaT SSB Vegeta making him 2-C. His base is only fininetely weaker so it's also 2-C. His SSR form is his equivalent of SSB.
• Post-RoSaT SSB Vegeta is stronger than SSR Goku Black, he should also be superior to Goku Black base to base since SSB and SSR are equal form-wise, making him and Goku both 2-C in base from here on out.

Final Form Frieza can clash with beyond g*d Goku so he's 2-C in all his keys

And that's about it, hopefully this doesn't derail.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

I'm a random but I agree

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with the upgraded version of the Planet Vegeta calculation of course. And the downgrades are more so for the Manga counterparts of the DBS cast? I am okay with that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Weakened Moro scales to SSJ Vegeta who would be 2-C by this point because the Goku Black Arc makes all such characters 2-C, so he doesn't need to get downgraded

 

[StarShooter80]

Weakened Moro scales to SSJ Vegeta who would be 2-C by this point because the Goku Black Arc makes all such characters 2-C, so he doesn't need to get downgraded

Why would they all be 2-C? The only character that can be argued for 2-C in base is Goku Black post-healing. His SSR form is never stated to be equal to SSB for the manga continuity, so SSB Vegeta overpowering him doesn't mean he's also 2-C in base

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1191392274047840299/1280374042960072834/IMG_0262.jpg?ex=66d7d8c0&is=66d68740&hm=bf680762b950b3ca76d346027ce020903c7faf8271830e80e3168eb623e01dc2&

 

[RenderGK]

This Black Arc converts 2c to black ssj, and consequently to vegueta ssj or base post Rosat

Weakened Moro scales to SSJ Vegeta who would be 2-C by this point because the Goku Black Arc makes all such characters 2-C, so he doesn't need to get downgraded

 

[Killerdrone123]

Agree with the planets Vegeta calc upgrade regarding the dbs manga ssj2 black was throwing hands with Vegeta blue I think they should start scaling to 2c at base or atleast there super Saiyan forms from black arc

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

Agree with the planet Vegeta calc, neutral towards DBS Manga stuff

 

[CloverDragon03]

Why would they all be 2-C? The only character that can be argued for 2-C in base is Goku Black post-healing. His SSR form is never stated to be equal to SSB for the manga continuity, so SSB Vegeta overpowering him doesn't mean he's also 2-C in base

SSB and SSR are quite literally equivalent, as Ice has noted

Also, you got stuff like Hit taking (pun not intended) hits from both SSJ Goku and SSG Goku - which to me doesn't make sense if there's such a massive gap between the God Forms and the Non-God Forms

 

[Livinmeme]

Question, does the new DBZ planet standards affect toei?, because if it does, then the Vegeta exploding a planet calc that got Toei DBZ characters their 4-C rating should be revised

 

[StarShooter80]

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1191392274047840299/1280374042960072834/IMG_0262.jpg?ex=66d7d8c0&is=66d68740&hm=bf680762b950b3ca76d346027ce020903c7faf8271830e80e3168eb623e01dc2&

Oh well nevermind lmao. Added to the OP

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

Question, does the new DBZ planet standards affect toei?, because if it does, then the Vegeta exploding a planet calc that got Toei DBZ characters their 4-C rating should be revised

Don’t Toei DBZ has their own planet size and design? I don’t think it will

 

[StarShooter80]

Question, does the new DBZ planet standards affect toei?, because if it does, then the Vegeta exploding a planet calc that got Toei DBZ characters their 4-C rating should be revised

The statements only appear in the DBS Manga and Anime, not even the orignal manga material the Toei anime is based off so probably not

 

[Livinmeme]

The statements only appear in the DBS Manga and Anime, not even the orignal manga material the Toei anime is based off so probably not

Frieza mentioning that Planet earth is basically a dwarf planet is still in the anime, isn't?

 

[StarShooter80]

Frieza mentioning that Planet earth is basically a dwarf planet is still in the anime, isn't?

Yes but there still isn't a size for average planets for Toei to go off of

 

[StarShooter80]

Bump

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wasn't "Saiyan Beyond God" pretty much retconned? Since Goku in the very next saga uses SSG again (manga) and the tournament of power (anime), and both use it in DBS Broly too

So even in the manga, Frieza was just fighting Base Goku

 

[CloverDragon03]

No, and there's a discussion rule on this, at least for the anime. The manga is a bit weirder

 

[Sparkive]

To be fair, the "Resurrection of F" we have in the manga continuity is either a promotional manga made before Super (and probably before they decided not to use the concept again) or literally scenes from the movie masquerading as a comic (which falls into the same thing)
I would see it feasible to ignore "Saiyan Beyond God", because the Super Manga continuity completely ignore it, and no matter which version of Resurrection of F you use, it's forced into a manga that simply saw it more convenient not to adapt the saga and move on to what came next, using only what it wanted to use, I wouldn't even call it a retcon.
"Saiyan beyond god" implied that we would never see super saiyans without divine ki, right?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Wasn't "Saiyan Beyond God" pretty much retconned? Since Goku in the very next saga uses SSG again (manga) and the tournament of power (anime), and both use it in DBS Broly too

So even in the manga, Frieza was just fighting Base Goku

The manga uses the movie as its canon and the promotional manga made by Toyotaro shows Goku using Beyond God.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

if manga base Goku got downgraded, so would manga Frieza up to when he faced post-FT arc base Goku, unless the implication is that SBG Goku is a different character than current Goku and Frieza faced both, or the verse treats SBG as a temporary powerup for that arc alone

 

[Damage3245]

For the sake of getting the earlier threads applied I'm fine with the sandbox there, even though I don't think those should be the final ratings.

 

[Omegas03]

I don't know if this may be derailing, buuuut the DBS scaling numbers should get updated.

If the BoG manga storyline is the same as the anime, narratively, SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta SHOULD scale above SSJ3 Gotenks and PU Gohan already by the beginning of the series.

This is by the fact that Goku and Vegeta were considered 1 and 2, Vegeta gave more fight to Beerus than Gohan/Gotenks AAAAAND Vegeta was also scared shitless when he heard Goku lost to Beerus before the ritual. This couldn't be the case if Gohan and Gotenks were still ultimate trump cards/~100x stronger than Goku

TLDR: having SSJ3 Goku by the Black arc manga STILL weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks is extremely weird. Other than that it seems fine.

(I also disagree with Gotenks bloated scaling numbers but I don't want to argue about it).

 

[StarShooter80]

snip

This seems completely fine I'll just wait for more input from other members

(I also disagree with Gotenks bloated scaling numbers but I don't want to argue about it).

His probably has the worst inverse scaling imo

 

[Omegas03]

Wait, I'll just go ahead and ask:

Where do we get Base Gotenks (pre) > Majin Vegeta from?

Base Gotenks (post) being > his previous SSJ is also extremely sus because entirety of what "proves" it is a gag scene.

I even have a hard time believing Gotenks is even 10x Buu Saga Goku form by form at this point, but I have to gather scans to help my case.

Best case scenario SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ > SSJ3 Goku/SSJ Gotenks pre > Fat Buu >>>> Base Gotenks

 

[StarShooter80]

Base Gotenks (post) being > his previous SSJ is also extremely sus because entirety of what "proves" it is a gag scene.

The only real gag was Gotenks and Piccolo underestimating Super Buu, other than that Gotenks surpassing his previous SSJ self in base is pretty straight forward

 

[Deleted member 44468]

Agree with the planets Vegeta calc upgrade regarding the dbs manga ssj2 black was throwing hands with Vegeta blue I think they should start scaling to 2c at base or atleast there super Saiyan forms from black arc

I know this is derailing but pretty sure it's just common SSJ.

anyways agreed

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The manga uses the movie as its canon and the promotional manga made by Toyotaro shows Goku using Beyond God.

That's why I said retcon, since both the manga and anime later replace Sayian Beyond God with just SSG and SSB

Frieza later is equal to Goku in his base form in the ToP, while Golden Frieza remains SSB level

 

[CloverDragon03]

Goku's base is still 2-C, that's not retconned

 

[StarShooter80]

Bump

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Frieza later is equal to Goku in his base form in the ToP, while Golden Frieza remains SSB level

In the manga? Base Freeza is never compared to Base Goku. The closest you get is him stomping SS1 Caulifla then taking light damage from her full power energy wave. And that was powerful enough to destroy a significant chunk of the arena and catch the attention of Goku, 17, Toppo and Vegeta. And given that Vegeta directly states Cabba is equal to him in base form during the U6 tournament that would directly contradict the idea that Base Freeza is relative to Base Saiyans.

So at worst Manga Base Freeza is equivalent to Super Saiyans.

 

[StarShooter80]

Bump

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And given that Vegeta directly states Cabba is equal to him in base form during the U6 tournament that would directly contradict the idea that Base Freeza is relative to Base Saiyans.

Vegeta got much much stronger since the U6 Saga, as in the manga, Goku Black stomped his SSB form with just SSJ, but when he fought him the second time Vegeta overpowered SSR Black with just SSG, showing he more than surpassed his previous SSB form likely even in Base (since Manga Rose is equivalent to Blue in terms of power and multiplier)

Point is, it's very likely Cabba is no longer relative to Goku and Vegeta in the ToP anymore so Frieza stomping them doesn't mean a lot regarding how strong he is compared to Goku and Vegeta

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Vegeta got much much stronger since the U6 Saga, as in the manga, Goku Black stomped his SSB form with just SSJ, but when he fought him the second time Vegeta overpowered SSR Black with just SSG, showing he more than surpassed his previous SSB form likely even in Base (since Manga Rose is equivalent to Blue in terms of power and multiplier)

Hit went from struggling against U6 SSG Goku to being on par with Post-Black CSSB Goku when Goku made the same leap. So U6 characters making similar leaps isn't new.

Point is, it's very likely Cabba is no longer relative to Goku and Vegeta in the ToP anymore so Frieza stomping them doesn't mean a lot

And yet Super Saiyan Caulifla can injure Base Freeza. Who would still be 2-C.

The leap from SSB Vegeta struggling against SS1 Black to beating SSR Black is around 160,000x due to the God multiplier. Even if you argue Base Freeza is only relative to Base Saiyans that would still mean Cabba grew over 160,000x more powerful since the U6 Saga or Caulifla even harming Freeza wouldn't be possible. And since Super Saiyan is a finite multiplier, Base Vegeta would have 2-C power.

In short, the premise that Cabba is 'likely no longer relative to Goku and Vegeta' is flawed because Cabba made an insane leap from when he first fought Vegeta. Cabba was equal to Vegeta in the U6 Tournament and when we see him again his power has had an insane leap from 4-B to 2-C in base form like Vegeta had.

So if Cabba leapt from matching Base/SS Vegeta when their powers were 4-B to having 2-C power in Base/SS when Vegeta also leaped to having 2-C power in those same forms why would it be 'likely' that they aren't relative in strength anymore when Cabba clearly made a 4-B to 2-C leap exactly like Vegeta did towards the end of the previous saga? How much did Vegeta's power increase from that initial leap between the Black Saga and start of the US Saga?

I'm willing to wager that no. There is no actual reason to assume what you say is 'likely'. The scaling here makes it pretty clear that Cabba had an extremely similar massive leap in power as Vegeta did. I have no reason to think otherwise.

----

None of that matters anyways. Right now Beyond God is considered canon to the manga and Base Freeza was treated as relative to Beyond God Goku. The thread where that passed is linked in OP. If you wanna discuss this more with me you can post on my wall or in the Dragon Ball general.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Eh I'll let it go for now. I do agree with this CRT though

 

[StarShooter80]

Bump

 

[StarShooter80]

Bump

 

[StarShooter80]

Bump

 

[StarShooter80]

Bump