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About the New Tiering System

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1. So if High 1-A will be for all hierarchies and cardinal numbers, and 0 will be for characters who are "monadic totalities"... What will High 1-A+ be?

2. If a character is akin to a monadic totality but its verse is not confirmed as infinite... For example, the verse consists of only one solar system and it is not known whether the rest of the cosmology is infinite or not... In this case will the character be Tier 0?
 
1. So if High 1-A will be for all hierarchies and cardinal numbers, and 0 will be for characters who are "monadic totalities"... What will High 1-A+ be?
Low 1-A will be for cardinal numbers. High 1-A+ is for beings capable of actualizing all the possibilities that the monadic entity encompasses. By that, I mean they can create any world they wish, no matter how many hierarchies, realms, transcendent layers, etc there are. Any arbitrarily large worlds are something they can manipulate.
2. If a character is akin to a monadic totality but its verse is not confirmed as infinite... For example, the verse consists of only one solar system and it is not known whether the rest of the cosmology is infinite or not... In this case will the character be Tier 0?
Monadic beings beyond quantity and quality, so whether something is infinite or finite is irrelevant to them, as infinity is a type of quantity.
 
Low 1-A will be for cardinal numbers. High 1-A+ is for beings capable of actualizing all the possibilities that the monadic entity encompasses. By that, I mean they can create any world they wish, no matter how many hierarchies, realms, transcendent layers, etc there are. Any arbitrarily large worlds are something they can manipulate.

Monadic beings beyond quantity and quality, so whether something is infinite or finite is irrelevant to them, as infinity is a type of quantity.
So what will be 1-A and High 1-A ?
 
Baseline 1-A will be stuff like Reality > Fiction Transcendence, and things equal to it.

Finite hierarchies of R > F or cosmologies equivalent to it will also be 1-A.

An infinite hierarchy of R > F or cosmologies equivalent to it will be 1-A+.

High 1-A will be for any hierarchies or cosmologies that transcend/exceed 1-A+. All current Tier 0 Cosmologies, will likely sit somewhere within this tier.

High 1-A+ is no longer based on cosmology, they can do whatever they please to any form of cosmology, no matter their size, complexity, etc. Beings at this point can essentially go: "my cosmology is bigger than your cosmology" forever, to any infinitely high degree, so they can't really out stat one another.

Tier 0 is the monad themself, who are beyond any form of quality or quantity, and therefor even High 1-A+ which can create and destroy things of any quality or quantity, can't match them.
 
Baseline 1-A will be stuff like Reality > Fiction Transcendence, and things equal to it.
I don’t really understand... So basically, R > F transcendence will be considered beyond all cardinal numbers? So for example, let’s take a random character who sees his verse as fictional... Just because of that, he will be considered beyond the framework of current Tier 0 ?!!
 
I don’t really understand... So basically, R > F transcendence will be considered beyond all cardinal numbers? So for example, let’s take a random character who sees his verse as fictional... Just because of that, he will be considered beyond the framework of current Tier 0 ?!!
Here's an example. Let's say you were an infinitely large being.
In comparison to you, Earth is quite literally infinitesimal. However, despite that fact, it still exists. It's infinitely smaller than you yes, however, its existence is not zero.

But let's increase the scope, let's you are now as large as an Aleph-0 Amount of Universes (2-A/Multiversal+). Now, in comparison to you, a planet is not even equal to a speck of dust. Once again, it's infinitesimal to you, even more so than before. However, it still exists.

We can repeat this process with every form of Aleph, and every form of Inaccessible Cardinal, however, no matter how big you become, or how grand the infinity, that planet still exists in comparison to you.
Now, let's say you are a higher being. The God and Author of an entire world that exists inside of a book. One that you are free to change with a single stroke of your pen.
In comparison to you, the world within that book is not, lower-dimensional. It's not flat, or 2D. It litterly doesn't exist. It's a product of your imagination, it's unreal, and has no influence on anything at all.

If you destroyed the 2nd Dimension, our 3rd Dimension would be affected. We would lose a dimension, despite being originally superior to the 2nd Dimension. On the other hand, if that book suddenly burned, and all memories of that world that existed inside of it were erased, nothing would change for you.

In fact, you could write that the world inside of that book is infinite. You could write that it has a multiverse in it. In fact, you could even go so far as to say it contains infinite higher dimensions, and above that is a realm as large as a Berkeley Cardinal.

However, the result is the same. It's non-existent in comparison to you, the Author, and therefore the gap between that world and you, is beyond any form of mathematical infinities. The difference between Reality and Fiction, is just that big.
 
Here's an example. Let's say you were an infinitely large being.

Now, let's say you are a higher being. The God and Author of an entire world that exists inside of a book. One that you are free to change with a single stroke of your pen.
So for example, Metaverse Enterprise Solutions from Doki Doki Litterature Club will be 1-A?
 
So for example, Metaverse Enterprise Solutions from Doki Doki Litterature Club will be 1-A?
No.

Since R > F is such a large jump in Tier now, it also has very tight restrictions. Wherever a Reality > Fiction Transcendence is present, the fiction question must not have the anti-feat of interacting with Reality.

By that, I mean, an MC who realizes they're in a story, can't suddenly gain the power to leap out of that story, from within the story. After all, it makes no sense that something within fiction can have the power to reach reality.

The only way the example I gave above will be deemed possible, is if the power the MC uses to escape fiction comes from the higher reality in question.

So simplified, Reality MUST ALWAYS, CONSISTENTLY be portrayed as superior to the Fiction in question, and if the Fiction manages to affect Reality without some kind of assistance from sed Reality, then it's an anti-feat and not given 1-A status.
 
@ActuallySpaceMan42 so basically:

- Low 1-A: all sets of cardinal numbers

- Baseline 1-A: true R > F transcendence

- 1-A+: Infinite hierarchy of R > F transcendence

- High 1-A: beyond the framework of R > F transcendence

- High 1-A+: all hierarchies and cosmologies beyond maths and R > F transcendence

- 0: monadic totalities

Is that correct?
 
Almost, your definition of High 1-A+ would just be High 1-A.

- High 1-A: Hierarchies & Cosmoliges beyond 1-A+

- High 1-A+: Can create, destroy and effect, any and all possible Hierarchies & Cosmologies.
 
Almost, your definition of High 1-A+ would just be High 1-A.

- High 1-A: Hierarchies & Cosmoliges beyond 1-A+

- High 1-A+: Can create, destroy and effect, any and all possible Hierarchies & Cosmologies.
Ho, ok. But I forgot something, what will be High 1-B+?
 
Wait, you said:

"- High 1-A: Hierarchies & Cosmoliges beyond 1-A+

- High 1-A+: Can create, destroy and effect, any and all possible Hierarchies & Cosmologies."


How big is the gap between High 1-A and High 1-A+?
 
Imagine if all Cosmologies that are beyond 1-A+, so basically all Cosmologies that qualify for High 1-A, were given levels.

So in this scenario, the SCP Verse Cosmology is Level 20, and some other random Cosmology is Level 3. Both are High 1-A Cosmologies beyond 1-A+, but the SCP one is bigger, so it gets a higher level.

High 1-A+ Beings aren't stuck at a specific Level. They can create a Level 1 High 1-A Cosmology if they want, or a Level 7,000 Cosmology.
 
Imagine if all Cosmologies that are beyond 1-A+, so basically all Cosmologies that qualify for High 1-A, were given levels.

So in this scenario, the SCP Verse Cosmology is Level 20, and some other random Cosmology is Level 3. Both are High 1-A Cosmologies beyond 1-A+, but the SCP one is bigger, so it gets a higher level.

High 1-A+ Beings aren't stuck at a specific Level. They can create a Level 1 High 1-A Cosmology if they want, or a Level 7,000 Cosmology.
But wouldn’t it be the same? For exemple, if a 1-A charachter can destroy or create a 1-A realm, he's still considered 1-A like a charachter who just lives in a 1-A realm but can't affect of destroy it... Why is it different for High 1-A+?
 
But wouldn’t it be the same? For exemple, if a 1-A charachter can destroy or create a 1-A realm, he's still considered 1-A like a charachter who just lives in a 1-A realm but can't affect of destroy it... Why is it different for High 1-A+?
High 1-A+ can create and destroy ANY High 1-A Cosmology/Hierarchy. They will always be superior to any High 1-A Verse because they can always exert power greater then that High 1-A Verse.
 
Wasn't it said in the ultima's thread that type 4 multiverses were low 1-A?
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Ok. Can I also clarify something? Extended Modal Realism is High 1-A+ while Apophatic Theology is 0? Is that correct?
Yes, though both the EMR and Negative Theology are watered-down versions because we can't have illogical things have some absurd notion. Thus, 0 is only logical Omnipotence and not anything that's out of the confines of the rules of logic.
 
Idk how Negative Theology is related to the size of something tbh. I still believe EMR is the biggest you can get in terms of "size".
 
Idk how Negative Theology is related to the size of something tbh. I still believe EMR is the biggest you can get in terms of "size".
I know what you mean by size, but those things are very viable in describing things that are beyond the conventional concept of “size.”

EMR had to be watered down due to its depiction of an impossible world mainly because it breaks the rules of thought. Impossible worlds aren't conventional and they aren't fully discovered. We can't simply take snip bits of “what couldn't have been” in any logical sense because it's not logically possible.

Negative Theology is watered down because of many philopsher making the notion, that due to the nature of the apophatic view, everything is a description of something thus is impossible to not go against the idea that some can't be described if we were to talk about it.

Ultima said that is not always the case and a safer approach would be it's original intent:
Furthermore, a valid question that some may have is with regards to the status of apophatic theology in relation to the above. Broadly speaking, apophaticism is closely related to the mechanics of Tier 0, insofar as existing beyond all divisions and separations entails an inability to be circumscribed by any singular concept. And historically, the two concepts have also walked hand-in-hand in one way or another. However, in order to qualify for 0 through apophatics, these guidelines must be followed alongside the other conditions for the tier:

1. The incomprehensibility of the character must not come from a contingent limitation of a lower being's intellect, which could conceivably be overcome through some manner of evolution (e.g. The way a 4-dimensional hypercube is incomprehensible to our 3-dimensional brains), but from the fundamental nature of the character. To wit:
2. The incomprehensibility in question, obviously, must be correlated to the "power" or "magnitude" of the character. It is perfectly possible for an object to be without any properties (For a strict definition of "property") and yet not be superior to these properties at all. See bare particulars for an example in philosophy. As such, something being stated to be "unknowable," "undefinable," and similar is not grounds for Tier 0 on its own.

3. The incomprehensibility in question must be due to the character fundamentally surpassing the very qualities that would serve as the object of intellection to begin with. Therefore, the statements must not be hyperbolic statements that only serve to underscore how mighty the character is, but must be serious statements on their ontology. Refer back to the quote provided above.

Do note, however, that this transcendent nature does not mean that there cannot be true statements about such a character, but only that it is beyond the ontological features signified by such predicates, inasmuch as said features exist in the framework of dualities and differences.[note 9] In that vein, more exaggerated accounts are to be treated, as it were, as excess fat: They extend the concept into extremities that are perhaps rightly deemed absurd, but ultimately don't contradict the basic sufficient conditions for the tier.[note 10]

Finally: As seen above, a number of terms in our everyday vocabulary are, strictly speaking, misnomers when applied to such characters. However, as most writers are human beings, it would be unreasonable to assume they are always speaking in strict philosophical terms when featuring these concepts in their works. As such, mere usage of inadequate verbiage does not automatically disqualify a character, though it might, of course, need justification or amendment by the background context of the character in question, depending on the severity of the inappropriateness.
 
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