Tier 9-A Partners in Crime Tournament; Round 1 Match 7: Kamen Rider Shadow Moon and Kamen Rider Black Sun VS Berdly and The Queen (8-7-2)

[Cimafranca133]

Kamen Rider Shadow Moon and Kamen Rider Black Sun VS Berdly and The Queen​

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Tournament Match Rules

• All are restricted to 9-A.
• Speed is equalized.
• Characters have their standard equipment.
• Battles take place at an empty dumpster.
• Combatants start 30 meters away from each other.

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Kamen Riders: 8
Berdly n Queen: 7
Rick Astley: 2

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Why is Queen kinda bad in this fanart

You should contact the Kamen Rider supporters here, though I think I can support @Shadowslash125 as well while he's asleep.

 

[Nicetoderp]

I wish I can make my inputs, however, I didn't watch Black Sun.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Queen is hot.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Guess I'll have to step in...

So unfortunately for the Kamen Riders, they're at a massive physical disadvantage.

Both Black Sun and Shadowmoon scale to 50.21 Megajoules, while both Berdly and Queen scale to 316 Megajoules if memory serves me right. This is roughly a 6.3x advantage for Berdly and Queen in AP, SS, and Dura. Add on the fact that they have attacks which damage the soul, you can genuinely argue that the kamen Riders are in one-shot territory here.

However, there are a few things the Kamen Riders can exploit here that can give them the advantage here.

Going off of face value, Berdly seems to be the weak link of the duo, so it'd be better for Black Sun and Shadowmoon to take him out first, and I think they can do that.

First off, the Kamen Riders have a really good LS advantage (Class M vs Class K), so either Black Sun can restrain Berdly or Queen with said LS, or Shadowmoon can abuse tf out of his Telekinesis, which can be used to immobilize, choke, or blow enemies away. This is a great way to gain an advantage early in the match.

Another thing that can help is their Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception.

Additional Enhanced Senses (Shadow Eyes have a broad field of vision and can focus to see clearly from 870 meters away. He can detect even the slightest amount of light, allowing him to demonstrate the same ability even in dark places. The Sensor Antennae on his head can detect subtle changes in the environment, such as air currents and temperature, as well as the source of the attack, allowing for swift evasion and defense)

Extrasensory Perception (Alarm Point are extrasensory organs that sensitively perceive events that cannot be detected with the naked eye, such as signs of lurking in shadows and murderous intent, as well as impending dangers)

With abilities like this, any kind of sneak attack is basically void here.

While Black Sun and Shadowmoon are at a huge AP disadvantage, they have a few abilities that can somewhat circumvent the gap:

Bodily Weaponry (He possesses sharp claws and spins on both hands, and he can bite foes with his jaws.[2] He can also utilize the grasshopper legs that sprouted from his back as a sword[3])

Bodily Weaponry (He possesses sharp claws and spins on both hands, and his jaws are strong enough to split Anemone Kaijin in half[2][3]. He can also utilize the grasshopper legs that sprouted from his back as a sword)

Forcefield Creation and Statistics Amplification (The Century King Sun Driver can generate a special magnetic field that surrounds the abdomen and increases the driver's output. It is also capable of amplifying the "Vital Photon," the root of life found in all living things, and manifesting the power of fusion and evolution beyond the lineage)

Forcefield Creation and Statistics Amplification (The Century King Moon Driver can generate a special magnetic field that surrounds the abdomen and increases the driver's output. It is capable of amplifying the "Vital Photon," the source of life that exists within the bodies of all living things, expressing the power of fusion and evolution that transcends lineage, and rapidly amplifying its power. If a Kingstone is inside, it can increase the output and possibly manifest a unique power. It also improved overall performance and maximum output compared to the Century King Sun Driver)

Healing with Heat Haven (Heat Haven is a substance that can activate Kaijin's abilities, heal, or inhibit aging)

Damage Reduction (Ex Shell Armor's super-hardened skin acts as an exoskeleton, reducing nullifying internal damage from enemies attacks)

Energy Manipulation (He can focus the "Vital Photon" life force into his fist and leg to amplify power and activate the finisher. He could also imbue Century King Shadow Blade with the same energy, giving it greater cutting power)

All of the aforementioned abilities can either mitigate the amount of damage they take, heal from the damage taken, or increase the amount of damage they output.

And it's also very likely that both Shadowmoon and Black Sun can interact with Berdly and Queen's Soul Attacks via their Non-Physical Interaction.

Non-Physical Interaction (Deflect Bishum's air gust[4]. Comparable to Kamen Rider Black Sun, who could physically grasp telekinetic force)

Non-Physical Interaction (Should be comparable to Shadowmoon, who can deflect Bishum's air gust.[5] He could also physically grasp Shadowmoon's telekinesis force)

Yes. That 6.3x AP advantage is going to be very detrimental, but the Kamen Riders have a lot of abilities that can keep them in this fight. Shadowmoon can abuse his Telekinesis since he has the better LS, which can keep Berdly and Queen at bay.

Don't count them out.

 

[Shadowslash125]

I am awake but I have small stuff to do, thanks for stepping in @RandomGuy2345.

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

Interesting match up it seems

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I did my part y'all Kamen Rider supporters can do the rest lol

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok, I'm finally here, now I can finally elaborate on what RandomGuy has said.

Getting this out of the way now since this is very important to this matchup, Black Sun and Shadow Moon are incredibly bloodlusted against non-humans (the humans part will be elaborated when we get there cuz there's no point explaining this when they're fighting a bird monster and a robot). So none of them will hesitate to end this fight as fast as possible and as violently as possible. Despite their unfathomably low AP values (the lowest of this tourney), they have the one best stat out of everyone in this tourney: Their Class M Lifting Strength, which they use to rip off limbs and heads, lift stuff and crush stuff.

While their AP is extremely low, they have 2 sets of stat amps each to at least give them equal footing, but moreso more durability to tank should any of their attacks hit the rider duo. The first is from their innate abilities, then when they become riders. Even then, they possess exoskeletons that can reduce the damage of their SOUL attacks, which is now viable due to Psychomaster stating that many times in the main bracket thread.

Focusing on the Deltarune duo's attacks, Shadow Moon will be very prominent and is a huge pain in the ass for them due to his Telekinesis paired with his Class M LS and NPI, which will span tens of meters. With this, he can not only protect himself but Black Sun who lacks the TK, along with deflecting back any of their danmaku and attacks right back at them. While this may not seem to do much since those two resist SOUL Manipulation, keep in mind that Kotaro and Nobuhiko are looking to close the distance between them for them to be able to pounce and rip their heads off. Black Sun himself isn't dead weight here either, since he has everything else I've stated besides TK, so he can rip his leg to have it become a sword and then deflect those SOUL attacks on his own too.

To further add upon how they're going to avoid SOUL attacks, they have 2 sets of Enhanced Senses and 1 Extrasensory Perception each. As stated in their innate abilities: " Grasshoper's sensory organs: the compound eye and antenna can provide a greater field of vision, as well as other information such as light intensity, humidity, vibration, wind velocity, and so on." This is their innate grasshopper senses along with their kaijin senses, where the many kaijins of their series could sense Kotaro's sudden transformation from very far away. And we still have to account for their additional ones when they transform, which gives both of them a broad field of vision and can see clearly from 800 meters not to mention detect the smallest amount of light, letting them still fight well in the darkness. Their antennas let them detect subtle changes in the environment, such as air currents and temperature, as well as the source of the attack, allowing for swift evasion and defence. Not only will they be able to see their adversaries immediately, but they can also detect the deltarune duo's attacks coming at them. And if that doesn't convince you, then that's where Extrasensory Perception comes in. Both of them have extrasensory organs called alarm points that let them identify events that the naked eye cannot detect, such as presence hiding in shadows, murderous intent and most importantly, approaching danger. All this lets them dodge or deflect any attacks coming right for the Rider Duo as they cross the 30 metres to get into the CQC range, which they're ultimately very good at.

As for the Kamen Riders' attacks, we have Shadow Moon's telekinesis again, which he can use to his advantage by grabbing them and pulling them to the duo if they decide to try and run from their CQC range, among other things like pinning them to the ground and even crushing/ripping limbs. Kotaro has the same shit but again lacks the telekinesis. The two can attack using their claws and spines on their arms, along with being able to rip their hind legs (those things on their chests in the thread picture) to use them as swords. Their finishers boost their AP to unquantifiable amounts, which Kotaro used to completely defeat Nobuhiko in their final battle in the series, meaning that it may or may not be much, but the boost will still help regardless. I forgot they can also bite into their opponents and use their LS to rip and tear with that too. They incorporate their LS into their CQC fights, so they can pack a punch even with the huge AP gap.

As for the Rider Duo's other defences, they have Mid-Low regeneration, where they can regenerate very severe wounds. And Nobuhiko has a dozen heat heavens (kaijin health food) with him so he can share that with Kotaro to heal as they regen. Their stamina is terrifying since they're able to withstand mutilation, dismemberment, being shot at and massive blood loss. Kotaro himself had been stabbed severely twice and lost a leg fighting a very powerful adversary in his series, but he was still conscious and could still keep fighting. For Nobuhiko, he got slashed immensely by Kotaro but he still fought him unfazed. Both of them can also rip their hind legs without getting fazed. Pairing with their regeneration, healing and stamina, they will be able to stay in the battlefield for a long time even with their durability disadvantage.

The moment they reach CQC range (or if Shadow Moon woke up on the wrong side of the bed), the battle will be over very quickly for Berdly and Queen, as they'll end up as a pool of feathers, meat, bones and blood and a pile of metal respectively when the rider duo is done with them.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Battles take place at an empty dumpster.

What is this location? Are they supposed to fight inside or near a dumpster? Bro this is a dumpster fire man.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

What is this location? Are they supposed to fight inside or near a dumpster? Bro this is a dumpster fire man.

Mfs about to fight inside an empty dumpster I'm crine

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Superior LS is cool and all, but both of these guys are long-range projectile spammers with over a 6x AP/durability advantage. They only need to attack the Riders a handful of times before they get a KO while the Riders need to wear down the Lightnerds much more.

Queen also has a pesky forcefield that can take at least two of Susie's strongest spell before it fades. The Riders won't be able to throw anything at that forcefield that's close to Susie's Red Buster, so they'd have to spend a lot more time tearing it down... and during that time, the Lightnerds will be spamming projectile magic attacks.

It WILL be bad if the Riders can grapple. However, given the forcefield, projectile spam, flight, and AP/Dura advantage, I don't think they need to worry about that much.

Fight opens, magic goes flying, a forcefield gets brought up, they wear the Riders down while they struggle to get passed the forcefield.

Also, while Deltarune SOUL hax doesn't do much with durability, it DOES bypass bodily regeneration.

So, voting Queen and Burghley

 

[Shadowslash125]

both of these guys are long-range projectile spammers with over a 6x AP/durability advantage.

I've already stated why their projectiles will not work against these two. TLDR: They have NPI, which can be used to deflect these projectiles, Black Sun with his blade and Shadow Moon with his blade and Telekinesis. This will be like Sekiro's boss fight against Lady Butterfly, where he keeps parrying and deflecting her projectiles. If they need to dodge and evade, their potent enhanced senses and extrasensory perception will allow them to do so. Shadowmoon can even redirect it against them with his TK (and Black Sun might be able to do so via his blade). And they can do this while they're advancing to Queen and Berdly.

while the Riders need to wear down the Lightnerds much more

I concede on the AP point because even with their amped-up AP, they still need to attack them some more to defeat them, in contrast to the Deltarune duo's few attacks. HOWEVER, where they lack in AP, they completely shine in LS, where if Kotaro and Nobuhiko are in CQC range (or if Shadowmoon uses his TK against them), their limbs will get crushed or get ripped off, which depends on their LS rather than their AP. They don't need the AP as much as they need their LS to finish this fight very quickly. Kotaro does more grappling than Nobuhiko, but the latter can protect the former with his telekinesis by the way I mentioned above. And Kotaro isn't a slouch either.

Queen also has a pesky forcefield that can take at least two of Susie's strongest spell before it fades. The Riders won't be able to throw anything at that forcefield that's close to Susie's Red Buster, so they'd have to spend a lot more time tearing it down

This particular point is where Shadow Moon is going to shine. Does Queen immediately start with forcefield or does she have to open it mid-fight? If it's the latter, Shadow Moon will immediately go for the kill by using his TK (since its 30 meters and his TK range is tens of meters, I will assume that it has enough range to reach them) to rip or crush Queen, or maybe immobilize her if Kotaro wants the kill. If it's the former, then it's still no problem as he can still pin her to one side and keep deflecting her projectiles while Black Sun deals with Berdly (Nobuhiko can still deal with Berdly's projectile spams via using another arm for his TK but that's why Black Sun is here to defend his flank). In fact, he might actually crush the forcefield with his superior LS, destroying Queen's means of defense and opening her up to immediate defeat. If he's feeling particularly violent, Nobuhiko can break or rip their arms, not allowing them to attack at all (minus Queen if her forcefield is active).

However, given the forcefield, projectile spam, flight, and AP/Dura advantage, I don't think they need to worry about that much.
Fight opens, magic goes flying, a forcefield gets brought up, they wear the Riders down while they struggle to get passed the forcefield.

In case the TLDR didn't help, here's the main paragraph.

Focusing on the Deltarune duo's attacks, Shadow Moon will be very prominent and is a huge pain in the ass for them due to his Telekinesis paired with his Class M LS and NPI, which will span tens of meters. With this, he can not only protect himself but Black Sun who lacks the TK, along with deflecting back any of their danmaku and attacks right back at them. While this may not seem to do much since those two resist SOUL Manipulation, keep in mind that Kotaro and Nobuhiko are looking to close the distance between them for them to be able to pounce and rip their heads off. Black Sun himself isn't dead weight here either, since he has everything else I've stated besides TK, so he can rip his leg to have it become a sword and then deflect those SOUL attacks on his own too.

To further add upon how they're going to avoid SOUL attacks, they have 2 sets of Enhanced Senses and 1 Extrasensory Perception each. As stated in their innate abilities: " Grasshoper's sensory organs: the compound eye and antenna can provide a greater field of vision, as well as other information such as light intensity, humidity, vibration, wind velocity, and so on." This is their innate grasshopper senses along with their kaijin senses, where the many kaijins of their series could sense Kotaro's sudden transformation from very far away. And we still have to account for their additional ones when they transform, which gives both of them a broad field of vision and can see clearly from 800 meters not to mention detect the smallest amount of light, letting them still fight well in the darkness. Their antennas let them detect subtle changes in the environment, such as air currents and temperature, as well as the source of the attack, allowing for swift evasion and defence. Not only will they be able to see their adversaries immediately, but they can also detect the deltarune duo's attacks coming at them. And if that doesn't convince you, then that's where Extrasensory Perception comes in. Both of them have extrasensory organs called alarm points that let them identify events that the naked eye cannot detect, such as presence hiding in shadows, murderous intent and most importantly, approaching danger. All this lets them dodge or deflect any attacks coming right for the Rider Duo as they cross the 30 metres to get into the CQC range, which they're ultimately very good at.

The Rider duo has more than what it takes to defeat Queen and Berdly. And assuming from your lack of inclusion of Berdly, I take it he's not going to be impactful in this matchup, unlike Kotaro, who only needs to be in range to do his job.

Also, while Deltarune SOUL hax doesn't do much with durability, it DOES bypass bodily regeneration.

If so, they can still fight despite their wounds and/or they only need to eat a bite out of heat heaven to heal themselves. Keep in mind that Shadow Moon has a dozen of them, so they have a lot of time before they run out of them.

EDIT: I forgot my locking in gif.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

They have NPI, which can be used to deflect these projectiles, Black Sun with his blade and Shadow Moon with his blade and Telekinesis.

Not all of their attacks could be deflected. Queen uses AOE electricity, acid splashes that fill the battlefield, and some of her attacks even blind her opponents with ads so that they cannot see oncoming attacks.

Berdly's attacks aren't as impressive, but he still has danmaku that can overwhelm two people at once, as seen with Kris and Noelle

Does Queen immediately start with forcefield or does she have to open it mid-fight?

It's a two-turn thing. The first turn has her use her magic to fill the battlefield with acid, then the forcefield activates. I think that the Riders will be overwhelmed with this AND Berdly adding extra danmaku.

The Rider duo has more than what it takes to defeat Queen and Berdly. And assuming from your lack of inclusion of Berdly, I take it he's not going to be impactful in this

Berdly is a weak link but he isn't useless. He has more than enough danmaku to go around, and his attacks can still deal massive damage to the Riders. Queen is doing the heavy lifting though

I would say that TK and LS are noteworthy, but they aren't nearly enough to overpower the Lightnerds. While they can deflect a lot of attacks, they won't be able to deflect all of them, and getting hit even once is going to be devastating. The oneshot gap is 8x, and they have a 6x advantage. They can't oneshot, but a two or threeshot isn't too farfetched. Meanwhile, the amount of hits the Riders have to dish out is a LOT bigger, even when you take LS into account. And again, this is assuming they CAN use their LS while being bombarded by magic projectiles, AOE, a forcefield, and flight

I'd even argue that a grapple isn't an instant loss. They have magic that can be summoned anywhere around them, and again, a single hit will be devastating. Grappling will make them a sitting duck.

I don't think it'll be easy, but the Riders have to jump through more hoops to win than the Lightnerds do. The Riders have to go for a grapple while avoiding an ocean of danmaku while the Lightnerds just need to... hit them a few times

 

[Shadowslash125]

Queen uses AOE electricity, acid splashes that fill the battlefield, and some of her attacks even blind her opponents with ads so that they cannot see oncoming attacks.

The AOE electricity and acid drops can be dodged and the two riders can get to higher ground should the battlefield be filled with a pool of acid, so this shouldn't be too much of a hassle. For the deflection, telekinesis and NPI, Shadow Moon's NPI (which can deflect air gusts in his weaker Kaijin form) can be comparable to Black Sun, who can grab the former's TK and pull him to a finishing blow. Taking this into account, they can easily deflect the AOE Electricity and Nobuhiko won't have to do much with his TK to avoid having the battlefield be filled with acid, let alone hitting the two. As for the blindness and ads, their enhanced senses and extrasensory perception will aid them, mitigating that effect. Their sensory organs and antennae are good enough to have them defend from attacks.

Berdly's attacks aren't as impressive, but he still has danmaku that can overwhelm two people at once, as seen with Kris and Noelle

The same cannot be said for the riders in this situation, who as I've said, will have an easy time defending against any of their danmaku and long-ranged attacks. With Shadow Moon by Black Sun's side, the tables will be turned immediately and the deltarune duo will be instead bombarded by their own danmaku. You're going to see a lot of enhanced senses and extrasensory perception in my points because these two are a few of their abilities aiding in countering all of the other matchup's arsenal.

It's a two-turn thing. The first turn has her use her magic to fill the battlefield with acid, then the forcefield activates. I think that the Riders will be overwhelmed with this AND Berdly adding extra danmaku.

when you take LS into account. And again, this is assuming they CAN use their LS while being bombarded by magic projectiles, AOE, a forcefield, and flight

the Riders have to jump through more hoops to win than the Lightnerds do. The Riders have to go for a grapple while avoiding an ocean of danmaku while the Lightnerds just need to... hit them a few times

Looking at the boss fight itself, not only is her forcefield on the front, leaving her back exposed, the cup looks to be the main thing that's holding the forcefield together. While Shadow Moon's TK will, unfortunately, aid in its formation by sending her acid back at her, he can deal with the forcefield besides literally crushing it. Any item in the battlefield in his vicinity is susceptible to being thrown at her from behind. Assuming that this battle takes place in a dump and not an actual dumpster, anything is fair game in damaging her from the back or at least knocking off her glass. For the latter case, Nobuhiko only needs to just flick it away with his TK to end the forcefield prematurely. If there are any destroyed cars around them, TK and LS go brr. Even without any items, their swords should suffice in being flung at them, then have Shadow Moon control the blades to hit Queen or the cup from behind.

As for their flight, due to the distance between each duo being 30 meters, it is likely that they're already in Shadow Moon's TK range. If they choose not to cross the gap, Shadow Moon can just immobilize the two with his TK immediately, and bring them to CQC range where Kotaro can just rip their heads off. Or he can be a douchebag and just crush their bodies from afar, breaking no sweat. If Queen tries to fly at any moment (regardless of whoever goes to whom), Shadow Moon is there to make sure she doesn't escape.

I would say that TK and LS are noteworthy, but they aren't nearly enough to overpower the Lightnerds. While they can deflect a lot of attacks, they won't be able to deflect all of them, and getting hit even once is going to be devastating. The oneshot gap is 8x, and they have a 6x advantage. They can't oneshot, but a two or threeshot isn't too farfetched.

What is hard-carrying the TK is the NPI, which is essentially what allows both Black Sun and Shadow Moon to counter anything Queen and Berdly can throw at them. I've already talked about their NPI so I'm done with that. Black Sun only lacks the TK and its range, but he has everything else needed to win the fight. Heat Heavens can still allow them to stay in the fight longer, and a bite is more than enough to heal one Rider each.

I'd even argue that a grapple isn't an instant loss. They have magic that can be summoned anywhere around them, and again, a single hit will be devastating. Grappling will make them a sitting duck.

By the by, do they shoot projectiles and danmaku via their hands? If so, they're not going to be attacking any longer if they crush or rip off the deltarune duo's arms. Otherwise, they can still deal with it via... say it with me now... Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception, TK and deflection.

In actuality, their grapple won't make them sitting ducks. Due to their immensely superior LS, they just need to rush and grab any part of their body for a second or a few, before they say goodbye to their limbs. Even in their weaker Kaijin Forms, they've been able to effortlessly rip and tear through Kaijins that downscale from their weaker Class M LS, even if it does take a few. In their rider forms, their Class M is exponentially stronger and it would take way less time here, due to the very huge gap in LS between this duo and Queen and Berdly. And this isn't taking into account their stat amps, which would make their LS even stronger in addition to their AP.

The way I see it, while it will be easier for them to just bring the fight to them, crossing the gap won't be as much of a issue either as it seems and it wouldn't take long for them to seal Queen and Berdly's fate.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Also to clarify, Kamen Rider Black Sun is in his Kamen Rider key, meaning that he's not in his Creation King key. Hence, the lack of TK.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Shadow pretty much said everything that needed to be said, so I will throw in my piece on the fight too:

Kamen Riders pair extrasensory perception should allow them to detect imminent attacks and avoid them with their jumping height, which is 33–36 meters high. While Black Sun is "better" at dodging stuff than Shadowmoon since he was able to dodge Creation King's invisible telekinesis, Shadowmoon's telekinesis could be used to blow the projectiles away if they are physical objects or do a Vader's choke on Berdly and throw him against Queen to disordinate their attacks.

=> Shadowmoon can use his TK to deflect projectiles or attack enemies from a distance while Black Sun closes in on them.

As for Berdly and Queen side, let just say that 6x AP advantage + danmaku combo is no joke. Even with Class M LS, the Kamen Rider pair would have a hard time taking them down. There is an argument that having a higher AP may nullify the LS effect because you will be unable to "crush" things that are more durable than your AP. If Kamen Riders are showered with danmanku far stronger than themselves, it is joever.

 

[Shadowslash125]

There is an argument that having a higher AP may nullify the LS effect because you will be unable to "crush" things that are more durable than your AP.

Thing is, is that Queen and Berdly's AP in ton is probably as much as their LS (around the hundreds and Queen should be lesser than Giga Queen's LS in tons). Black Sun and Shadowmoon's LS is over 5000 tons, especially in their rider key. I don't think they can handle that much force.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Thing is, is that Queen and Berdly's AP in ton is probably as much as their LS (around the hundreds and Queen should be lesser than Giga Queen's LS in tons). Black Sun and Shadowmoon's LS is over 5000 tons, especially in their rider key. I don't think they can handle that much force.

AP and LS are two different things though, Queen and Berdly's AP is still higher than that of Black Sun and Shadowmoon. Yes, the latter have far higher LS but in order to break those two limbs, they would need to apply enough power to damage them.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Plus doesn’t Queen, you know, not need to move in order to attack? She looks pretty cozy just sitting in her chair while she dishes her attacks out. LS wouldn’t really do much to her in that respect.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Plus doesn’t Queen, you know, not need to move in order to attack? She looks pretty cozy just sitting in her chair while she dishes her attacks out. LS wouldn’t really do much to her in that respect.

Doesn't mean Shadow Moon can't pull her out of her chair with Telekinesis or Black Sun ripping her head off from there should they cross the gap. Moreso Shadow Moon's TK since he can pin her chair in place to prevent her from flying, along with herself so that Kotaro can finish the job.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Doesn't mean Shadow Moon can't pull her out of her chair with Telekinesis or Black Sun ripping her head off from there should they cross the gap.

I don’t think that’s how it works considering the post above?

Moreso Shadow Moon's TK since he can pin her chair in place to prevent her from flying, along with herself so that Kotaro can finish the job.

I mean, she’d still be spamming attacks in the meantime. What makes you think she would need to with the hellstorm of bullets that are omnidirectional?

 

[Shadowslash125]

I don’t think that’s how it works considering the post above?

James's posts only stated that it won't be as easy to crush or break their limbs. Black Sun's ripping and tearing will take a bit, but Shadow Moon's Telekinesis will still work, since it doesn't incorporate the crush and break, instead opting for push or pull or even pinning people down. If you're taking the above posts at face value, even he acknowledged that Shadow Moon can blow the projectiles away with his telekinesis.

I mean, she’d still be spamming attacks in the meantime. What makes you think she would need to with the hellstorm of bullets that are omnidirectional?

I mean I was just saying that he can do that with his TK. As for the omnidirectional danmaku and other stuff, I've already stated countless times that they'll not only be able to dodge them with their innate senses and perception but also deflect them (in Shadow Moon's case, he can easily redirect it back at them with TK while Black Sun can just do the Sekiro and the Dark Souls roll.). The Deltarune Duo may have resistance to their SOUL Manipulation, but getting their AP danmaku back at their faces would still damage them, right? When they're weakened enough, the Rider Duo can end the match well.

 

[Shadowslash125]

By the way, AP and LS use two completely different forms of power. Even with the higher AP, Queen and Berdly will still find trouble against the Rider Duo, since they incorporate LS more than their AP, hence their low ass AP but high like the heavens LS.

 

[DrGreyman]

Something I want to ask, is Berdly under mind control for this fight like the final boss fight in chapter two or is this smart race Berdly fighting with queen?
doesn't really matter but queen is a bit clumsy using berdly's magic, he can't use most of his moves with the wire attached
assuming it's just berdly fighting with queen but want to double check

 

[Shadowslash125]

I'm at the assumption that it's not wired Berdly unless anyone has actually mentioned.

 

[Jeodood]

question are the "monsters" are weak to things with legit souls (humans) humans have the type advantage and basically anything they do with malicious intent can one shot a monster.(in undertale)

 

[Nicetoderp]

question are the "monsters" are weak to things with legit souls (humans) humans have the type advantage and basically anything they do with malicious intent can one shot a monster.(in undertale)

Not sure if verse equalization work here.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Nah I think that's more of their monster physiology weakness, and it seems that monsters of deltarune do not share this weakness with their Undertale counterpart, regardless of verse equalization

 

[Shadowslash125]

Think I'm all done with arguments from my side. And it seems this thread is kinda dead for a while so I'll just start voting now.
Black Sun and Shadowmoon FRA

 

[Cimafranca133]

Think I'm all done with arguments from my side. And it seems this thread is kinda dead for a while so I'll just start voting now.
Black Sun and Shadowmoon FRA

Superior LS is cool and all, but both of these guys are long-range projectile spammers with over a 6x AP/durability advantage. They only need to attack the Riders a handful of times before they get a KO while the Riders need to wear down the Lightnerds much more.

Queen also has a pesky forcefield that can take at least two of Susie's strongest spell before it fades. The Riders won't be able to throw anything at that forcefield that's close to Susie's Red Buster, so they'd have to spend a lot more time tearing it down... and during that time, the Lightnerds will be spamming projectile magic attacks.

It WILL be bad if the Riders can grapple. However, given the forcefield, projectile spam, flight, and AP/Dura advantage, I don't think they need to worry about that much.

Fight opens, magic goes flying, a forcefield gets brought up, they wear the Riders down while they struggle to get passed the forcefield.

Also, while Deltarune SOUL hax doesn't do much with durability, it DOES bypass bodily regeneration.

So, voting Queen and Burghley

Counted

 

[TheGatememer]

Ima vote for Queen and Burgley. I think that their AP, and long range spam outweigh the advantages the Kamen Duo have. (I’d also say Soul Hax, but their AP is so much higher that it doesn’t even really matter) Plus, Queen also does have that funny force field, which will make it even more difficult for the Kamen Duo to subdue her.

 

[Psychomaster35]

The Kamen Riders become potassium deficient FRA

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Given the arguments, I’m more inclined to say the Gamer Duo.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Just to clarify again Queen and Berdly are already in range of Shadow Moon's Telekinesis due to 30 metre starting distance, so no amount of danmaku is going through it. Also, they'll sooner be pinned and immobilised and even choked before they start their range spam. And this utilises LS, which is COMPLETELY different from their AP and Durability, meaning they will be affected by it.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

QUEEN do be a robot, don't think one can strangle a robot (And can apparently summon attacks with her mind)

 

[Shadowslash125]

Well, she is still susceptible to other utilisations of his TK so she isn't completely safe either.
What he can do is to bring Berdly and Queen and pin them together (and crush them both with one hand) while deflecting and blowing away the projectiles with another. Not to mention he can still use his TK while moving around.

Black Sun will also help deflect the danmaku away from Shadow Moon while he brings a swift end to the both of them.
What everyone is failing to remember is that Shadow Moon with his TK and most probably Black Sun with his blade can redirect all their danmaku back to them. While they themselves are resistant to their SOUL damage, it will still hurt them to the point they're weakened, leaving them more vulnerable to the duo's attacks (should they actually go close-ranged).

 

[Catbowtie]

Kamen Riders For Reasons Above.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Just to clarify again Queen and Berdly are already in range of Shadow Moon's Telekinesis due to 30 metre starting distance, so no amount of danmaku is going through it.

Why are you lying? Their profiles only say Several Meters, not Tens of Meters.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Oh mb I misremembered.
While they still need to get in range regardless, they will have more than what it takes to cross the gap and do the funny TK and LS shenanigans.