Tier 9-A Partners in Crime Tournament; Round 1 Match 7: Kamen Rider Shadow Moon and Kamen Rider Black Sun VS Berdly and The Queen (8-7-2)

[DimeUhDozen]

From all the examples I’ve seen of his TK, forgive me if I’m wrong, but he only ever seems to do it one at a time to singular targets with one outstretched hand. Would he really be able to do that to as many targets as Berdly and Queen are constantly dishing out?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'll vote the Kamen Riders FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

That's a fair assessment, tbh. Most of the fights are one on one against singular opponents, but Shadow Moon has two arms, and can most probably use his TK with both hands. And his TK itself is a bit open-ended admittedly, due to not having an exact limit, but his TK size range should be similar to Queen's forcefield (or i could be bloody wrong)

All's not lost if I'm wrong tho, as Black Sun can also aid in deflecting the danmaku away along with their sense and perception.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I don’t doubt that he has the senses to intercept and or dodge those attacks, but it’s going to be difficult considering how much he has to hold at a time. A reminder that not only are they dealing with Queen’s attacks, but Berdly’s as well.

Just one of Queen’s attacks can land projectiles in the dozens. If he’s lucky, maybe he can get two of them that overlap in the same TK hold, but simultaneously, nine more plus Berdly’s tornados are coming at him and Black Sun. And that’s just for the one second. Queen spams her digital head attack like 9 times in short succession of each other so more than a hundred attacks + Berdly’s will need to be TK’d, deflected or dodged in about eight seconds coming at them from different angles, even behind them. It would be easier if they had the AP and Dura to allow for some leeway, but even just a shave would be enough to severely damage them thanks to the gap.

Keep in mind, this is still with the goal that they need to close the distance to activate their wincon of LS-ing Queen and Berdly. So unless they have some insane Riku and Sora deflecting a hundred laser bolts from Xemnas kind of feat, I don’t see an outcome where they win happening.

 

[DrGreyman]

Plus we know that if Berdly is serious about a fight, like when he fought Kris and Noelle in the Snowgrave route, he likes spamming his upgraded sin wave attack, aka a lot of projectiles all following the sameish path in very quick succession with more projectiles splitting off from the main line

 

[Shadowslash125]

That's why there is Black Sun to cover his flank for Shadow Moon. What I see can happen is Shadow Moon advances as a wall for Black Sun while he follows suit. While they're not in range of his TK, Shadow Moon is free to swerve and blow away projectiles coming to them while dodging whenever possible. Kotaro will be taking care of the projectiles from the back by dodging in unison with Nobuhiko or deflecting. Obviously they're not going to be at the levels of Riku and Sora and their durability is admittedly ass in this fight, but we still can't count them out just from that alone. Even with the poor durability, they have heat heavens to heal them on the way to their adversary, and Nobuhiko has dozens of them as his standard equipment.

They only need to be several meters away from Queen and Berdly to initiate their attack (close range for Black Sun only). What Shadowmoon can also do is to TK either Queen or Berdly to have one of them be a meat shield for the oncoming danmakus they'll face.

By the by, I need to ask if the Rider duo will have their motorcycles, because it will make the traversal become way easier. Though since Queen has her flying chair, I don't see why they won't have them. If this is confirmed, this is really going to change everything.

Edit: I have word that their motorcycles are allowed. I'll be elaborating on this very soon.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Yes, but while Black Sun covers for Shadow Moon, Queen will also have Berdly who is his own problem entirely as Greyman just described. Nearly all of the problems that I’ve given are from just one of Queen’s attacks. One of her easy mode attacks. Now add that with Berdly to the equation and it goes from difficult to overwhelming to the point where a few precise and masterful sword strikes will not make much of a difference. Black Sun’s greatest detriment is that he has severely limited range and can only be at one place at one time.

Ever been in a JRPG where you’re severely underleved and the boss is hitting you with attacks that deplete like a massive chunk of your HP? You constantly need to heal, and even just one act of healing will not only take up the time you’d need to attack, but be useless in a moment thanks to another attack hitting you just as hard, and then a second one, and then you’re dead. That’s what’s happening in the fight in terms of healing reserves.

And honestly, I think the motorcycles would actually hurt their chances since not only now do they need to dodge, deflect, heal, close the gap, etc., they now also need to operate a motorcycle that may take some time to start up. They’d also need to deflect and dodge WHILE on the motorcycles leaving only one hand for Shadow Moon to TK with aside from the usual two. Every precious second to the Riders is one that they need in this fight. They can’t afford to slow down or have their attention occupied by something else for even a moment.

 

[DrGreyman]

Yeah looking at the profiles the motorcycles just seem to be regular vehicles
like, they can sense obstacles, and have lights on them, and can handle jumps well
doesn't look like there are any superhax hiding behind having a motorcycle on hand

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Also, this is just a really obvious wincon:

Queen can just fly upwards hundreds of meters into the air with her chair and spam attacks from that distance to a point where the riders can’t reach her and pull Berdly up with her wire with her.

Then they literally just cannot close the gap no matter what.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok this is the big game changer. Having motorcycles meaning crossing the gap becoming faster and slightly easier in terms of going through the distance. Both of their bikes have information analysis, aiding in helping them deal with the projectiles on their way IN ADDITION to their already potent sense and perception. Here's where their bikes start differing:

Black Sun's bike can synchronise with his already potent sense and perception to better aid in the dodging their danmaku while Shadow Moon's bike can exceed it's maximum speed to cross the gap even quicker, since he don't need to worry too much about the projectiles compared to his partner due to his TK.

From this, we can get that they should be able to go through 30 meters faster than Queen flying to the sky (at least for Shadow Moon to get to TK range). How fast is her chair? Since both bikes can go 350 mph, they have 156.464 metres per second to cross, which will be too fast to cross the gap, meaning they'll reach TK range in no time (unless their vehicle speed is equalised too, making me stupid). There's a reason why we call these guys Kamen Riders, because they ride bikes and kick ass. Once they're in range, they'll have an easier time by jumping from their bikes. Not to mention Shadow Moon can TK Black Sun's bike and flying it across to them (or his own).

Should Queen actually literally outrange them, it'll more or less become an incon seeing as while the distance is too great for Black Sun and Shadow Moon (without using his TK shenanigans to throw stuff), they'll still be dodging to no tomorrow.

 

[DrGreyman]

how fast can they actually get on and start their motorcycles?
like, assuming they aren't on them already going their top speed to begin with
we don't know exactly how fast she is since we dont really see her chair pushed to its limits but on her profile it says she is comparable to Kris, who is supersonic at 667.20 m/s

also side note i like how Nobuhiko Akizuki first key has the same lifting strength feat as Kris, breaking an iron shackle
not part of the fight but a fun coincidence

 

[Shadowslash125]

how fast can they actually get on and start their motorcycles?

Probably within a few seconds since they don't wear helmets, they are the helmets.
By then Shadow Moon will have the range to catch Queen, or chuck Black Sun at her then catch her before she flies away and makes it become an incon.

And yea, it's pretty interesting to see the similarity.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok if speed is equalised for vehicles then they should be reaching the TK range before she flies.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I feel like you're avoiding the original problem which is that it isn't the quality of the dodging, it's the quantity. You can be the most skilled dodger in the whole world but if you're being overwhelmed by that many projectiles in that amount of time + Berdly and you'd need to actually start the bike up as well - it is not going to end well. Meanwhile Queen can just go "LMAO" and fly up if she wants to and spam attacks. Then continue the fight whenever she feels like it.

Also it wouldn't be fair to assume that they even have the combat speed to react to those attacks while driving their motorcycles at their top speed since they only have subsonic combat speed, and the supersonic values you're talking about are not even on the profile. Simply put, the arguments you're making for the bikes haven't even been accepted unless you want to make a CRT for them right now.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Wait wait wait since speed is equalised and the gamer duo will scale to the slower speed being that of BS and SM, they might not need their motor bikes after all, since both of them should be more than fast enough to cross 30 meters, with even less for them to reach TK range since they should upscale from their kaijin key value.

I'll answer the quantity dodge shenanigans soon since I'm outside rn and uhh stuff.

 

[Shadowslash125]

supersonic values you're talking about are not even on the profile.

They actually are, but it's in their vehicle section. Where their bikes names are hyperlinked.

and

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Uhh, well, I give up. You win.

 

[TheGatememer]

From what I can see on the profile, Shadowmoon doesn’t seem to use TK to crush opponents (I guess the closest thing to that would be choking people, but he threw them soon after), and would prefer to restrain, then toss them away, or skip the middle man entirely and just toss them. (I could be wrong, but that’s what I see in the profile)

If that’s the case, then I doubt TK in it of itself would be a primary wincon, since that wouldn’t kill either Queen nor Berdly. Not to mention, Queen is literally a Robot, so she can’t be choked.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Shadowmoon doesn’t seem to use TK to crush opponents (I guess the closest thing to that would be choking people, but he threw them soon after), and would prefer to restrain, then toss them away, or skip the middle man entirely and just toss them. (I could be wrong, but that’s what I see in the profile)

That was because A. He wasn't bloodlusted against Ptera woman for personal reasons and B. He was having a personal fight against Black Sun to prove his side and not warrant a crush with TK. It's understandable since he didn't really use it non-lethally for the above reasons, but he is capable of doing so, especially with his superior LS. With his own bare hands, he had crushed a human's skull because that person was rallying for anti-kaijin rights to the point of killing a Kaijin kid. There's no reason why he won't crush them with TK. I've already said at my first post that they're incredibly bloodlusted against non-humans (and humans too but they usually go for incap first against them unless they're in a life or death situation or other stuff like the anti-kaijin movement).

 

[TheGatememer]

That was because A. He wasn't bloodlusted against Ptera woman for personal reasons and B. He was having a personal fight against Black Sun to prove his side and not warrant a crush with TK. It's understandable since he didn't really use it non-lethally for the above reasons, but he is capable of doing so, especially with his superior LS. With his own bare hands, he had crushed a human's skull because that person was rallying for anti-kaijin rights to the point of killing a Kaijin kid. There's no reason why he won't crush them with TK. I've already said at my first post that they're incredibly bloodlusted against non-humans (and humans too but they usually go for incap first against them unless they're in a life or death situation or other stuff like the anti-kaijin movement).

Let me ask this then: Has he ever used TK to crush anyone to death, and better yet, has he ever, or does he usually use it as an opening move?

 

[Shadowslash125]

Unfortunately, around the time he develops his TK, he hasn't gotten the opportunity to crush someone to death. Still, it shouldn't be impossible seeing as to how he can choke, blow, grab and just about anything his TK allows him to utilise. I imagine he can crush, seeing that his chokings are just slight crushings of the neck.

HOWEVER, he does use it as an opening move.

 

[TheGatememer]

Unfortunately, around the time he develops his TK, he hasn't gotten the opportunity to crush someone to death. Still, it shouldn't be impossible seeing as to how he can choke, blow, grab and just about anything his TK allows him to utilise. I imagine he can crush, seeing that his chokings are just slight crushings of the neck.

But if we haven't seen him do it (even if he theoretically could), why would we assume he would do it now, let alone as a starting move as opposed to doing something else? I'm not saying that he can't do it, I'm saying that it doesn't seem like it's something he would lead with right away in character, especially if we haven't even seen him do it.

HOWEVER, he does use it as an opening move.

As in Telekinesis, but not crushing someone to death I assume.

 

[Shadowslash125]

why would we assume he would do it now, let alone as a starting move as opposed to doing something else? I'm not saying that he can't do it, I'm saying that it doesn't seem like it's something he would lead with right away in character

While he probably won't crush them immediately, there's also no reason why he would spare them either. Queen and Berdly wouldn't be of much significance to them compared to the humans they incap, regardless of whether they lose or win against them. I've been saying since the start that they're incredibly bloodlusted because in their first introduction (their transformations into kaijin form no less), they just kill their adversaries quickly (Spoilered for nsfw descriptions unless y'all ok with it), Black Sun by tearing out a kaijin's intestines and ripping his head off, and Shadow Moon by biting into the torso of another kaijin and ripping her in half. Unless they're human (they will still kill humans but that's for another time), or have some personal reasons why they don't kill their matchups, they will not hesitate to go for the killing blow quickly.

As in Telekinesis, but not crushing someone to death I assume.

Yes, but we still have to consider the above point I've made. Nobuhiko has a higher tendency to kill than Kotaro.

 

[TheGatememer]

While he probably won't crush them immediately, there's also no reason why he would spare them either. Queen and Berdly wouldn't be of much significance to them compared to the humans they incap, regardless of whether they lose or win against them. I've been saying since the start that they're incredibly bloodlusted because in their first introduction (their transformations into kaijin form no less), they just kill their adversaries quickly, Black Sun by tearing out a kaijin's intestines and ripping his head off, and Shadow Moon by biting into the torso of another kaijin and ripping her in half. Unless they're human (they will still kill humans but that's for another time), or have some personal reasons why they don't kill their matchups, they will not hesitate to go for the killing blow quickly.


Yes, but we still have to consider the above point I've made. Nobuhiko has a higher tendency to kill than Kotaro.

I don't doubt that they would be bloodlusted. The issue I have is the way that they go about killing Queen. From what you've just said, they seem to be primarily melee fighters, going for the kill via close ranged attacks, as opposed to say, crushing them via TK from a distance.

This is an issue because Queen's Acid Shield will probably just burn them if they attempt to touch her in any way physically.

And also, as mentioned previously, Queen could just fly out of range pretty quickly if they try to get close.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Oh, then fair enough. Regardless, that can be mitigated (not countered, btw) by their blades (the hind legs that become actual swords when they rip them from their backs) and Nobuhiko's TK. If anything happens to the blades because of the acid, they'll avoid the shield till the TK kicks in.

Since her shield is from the front and her cup of acid, Shadow Moon would probably blow the cup away from her either via pure TK or TKing the blades to knock it off her hands. He would know because in the deflection and redirection of their danmaku, he will inevitably and unintentionally aid in Queen's Acid Shield generation via her acid attacks going into the cup and forming the shield.

Basically, the TK hasn't been used to kill, but it should aid them in killing. Keep in mind the TK isn't limited to just the people, it can be used against any object in their vicinity. Another way he can utilise the TK is by grabbing Berdly and letting him take the danmaku or better yet, chucking him right into the Acid Shield, which should at least damage Berdly at worst.

 

[TheGatememer]

Queen has many cups, so losing one isn't gonna be that big of a deal, even if they do manage to knock it away.

Of course, you also have to keep in mind that they aren't just going to stay still the while time; in fact, according to Speed Equalization rules, the Delta Duo have a MS of 48.6894337715 m/s, which makes them over 3x faster than the Kamen Duo, so they could constantly be on the move while dishing out Danmaku attacks, all while staying out of range of the TK. Plus, as I mentioned previously, Queen can fly up pretty fast out of their range, should they manage to get close to her.

While they could use their bikes to try and keep up, not only would it likely take a few seconds for it to rev up (which, frankly, would just make them sitting ducks for either Berdly, or Queen's attacks), it's likely that the tires quickly get popped, or melted by acid.

So, overall, I think the Delta Duo's advantages outweigh the Kamen Duo's advantages; though I will admit the match is closer than I thought.

 

[Shadowslash125]

MS of 48.6894337715 m/s

That's actually BS and SM's reaction speed (unless this scales with every speed ???) I'm still a bit hazy on speed equalization.

 

[BERRIES555]

Could someone catch me up to speed rq? People have voted but it seems that arguments are still being made

 

[BERRIES555]

So Slash messaged me offsite. Both BS and SM are bloodlusted like, 24/7, especially when against nonhuman opponents. The only times when they weren’t is when they were attacking humans or when they wanted to have an ego boost.

I feel like danmaku wouldn’t be much of a threat here. BS already has good agility feats and senses. SM’s TK allows him to get a much better area of control too. Unless it’s like Sans and it’s damn near impossible to overcome, the danmaku really shouldn’t be a problem for these two.

The real problem is just getting close. While they have their bikes which would cover the distance; one of the opponent’s can fly. It’ll be hard for the riders to land attacks. At the same time, the riders area control plus area awareness makes it difficult for the delta duo to land much hits. Really just comes down to stamina.

Delta Duo have fought groups of people over extended periods of time, Queen specifically not breaking a sweat….Rider guy wave crazy endurance. Legit, they could have their arms cut off, face blown up, and legs torn to shreds and still be willing to fight. SM specifically was noted to survive 50 years of torture with little means of food or water. I feel as though the Riders would outlast over a crazy long battle.

I won’t vote rn, but I’m leaning towards Riders, like, extreme diff

 

[Shadowslash125]

Queen has many cups, so losing one isn't gonna be that big of a deal, even if they do manage to knock it away.

At the very least it should delay the next shield formation, giving them enough time to take action. And knocking away more cups won't really be much of a hassle anyways.

Of course, you also have to keep in mind that they aren't just going to stay still the while time

They will if Shadow Moon's TK and Black Sun can get a hold of them.

according to Speed Equalization rules, the Delta Duo have a MS of 48.6894337715 m/s, which makes them over 3x faster than the Kamen Duo, so they could constantly be on the move while dishing out Danmaku attacks, all while staying out of range of the TK. Plus, as I mentioned previously, Queen can fly up pretty fast out of their range, should they manage to get close to her.

After reading the speed equalization stuff, their movement speed should be the same, and the total reaction time will be split in half, so they obviously won't be faster than the rider duo (and the speed you've used is the reaction speed, not their actual speed). How fast is her chair exactly? Because both of their bikes can go 350mph and Shadow Moon can go even faster. Keep in mind that they'll catch up quickly with the bikes to be in range of TK.

While they could use their bikes to try and keep up, not only would it likely take a few seconds for it to rev up (which, frankly, would just make them sitting ducks for either Berdly, or Queen's attacks), it's likely that the tires quickly get popped, or melted by acid.

Their bikes might only be used to cross the preliminary gap until they get to TK range, where Nobuhiko needs to TK them to prevent them from going away anymore. And while that is a fair statement, they should still be able to at least deflect the projectiles, since Nobuhiko is still there to aid with TK shenanigans.

 

[TheGatememer]

tbh for the speed equalization stuff, I just assumed their CS would be equal to their RS, due to a lack of value for the former

 

[Shadowslash125]

The Speed Equalization for movement speed should probably scale to Shadow Moon, who is about 13.5 m/s.

 

[DrGreyman]

Again, we don't know exactly how fast her chair is, the best we can go off of is this

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Again, we don't know exactly how fast her chair is, the best we can go off of is this

At most, we can maybe assume that it moves faster than Susie can react.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Honestly, I can't for the life of me calc how fast that is, since I suck at them. Yea uhh I dunno what to make of the flying chair speed. I do know she'll probably come back to TK range a few times (I dunno tbh).

 

[DimeUhDozen]

Honestly, I can't for the life of me calc how fast that is, since I suck at them. Yea uhh I dunno what to make of the flying chair speed. I do know she'll probably come back to TK range a few times (I dunno tbh).

Why would she if she can comfortably attack from Hundreds of Meters anyway?

 

[Shadowslash125]

I just assume that she would to like taunt the other duo or something after watching the video? If anything, Queen flying away from 100s of meters literally turns this into a stamina battle that can very well lead to an incon. Maybe Shadow Moon can catch Berdly being wired first thing but even then the chair speed is unknown.
Do we have a reaction speed on Susie?

 

[Shadowslash125]

Ok wait, Black Sun and Shadow Moon's jump heights are 36m and 33m respectively. Depending on Queen's unknown flight speed which I assume won't be as fast as their bikes, both of them should be able to catch up to her before she flies away or at least get her wire via Berdly. Moreso Shadow Moon with his TK.
(If you're looking for the profile stuff, they're at the speed section where there's a hyperlink referring to how fast both riders can run respectively).

 

[DimeUhDozen]

The circumstances of that and a fight are two completely different things. Queen wasn't in a combative mindset then. She's definitely the type to take neany cheap shot that she can though. Let's also go over the fact that in pretty much every instance of the TK, he has either used it to lead into a physical strike or push someone anyway and has never shown to be able to do dodge during that time. Your assumptions are based off of the Riders already knowing what you do and not going in for physical H2H like they've been shown to do, which they do not. Queen and Berdly already like to attack from a distance, so this shouldn't be a problem for them.

Also, please just show me an instance of the Riders being able to dodge Danmaku because your arguments only work if the riders are dodging just one attack at a time, which they are not. Queen and Berdly's attacks cover a wide amount of range. If they dodge one attack, there'll still be like 10 more waiting for them in the dodgable areas. Kris's SOUL is a lil heart so it can weave in between those cracks but the Riders are not. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that they would be able to dodge every single one of them all the time like what you claim. It's just enhanced senses, not instinctive reaction. Spider-Sense, this is not. As stated before, they've only been shown to be able to hold one target at a time. And even if they are held, Queen is able to spawn in projectiles without making a motion, meaning the attacks would not even stop. Shadowmoon would just be concentrating on holding Queen in place and get blasted point blank by an attack. And Black Sun at the same time has to deal with Berdly.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Let's also go over the fact that in pretty much every instance of the TK, he has either used it to lead into a physical strike or push someone anyway and has never shown to be able to do dodge during that time.

I mean to be fair, TK was used against singular opponents (there was an instance where he had to fight multiple Kaijins but his TK completely overwhelmed them enough to be unable to fight back against him), and because of the overwhelming part, they never really got the chance to fight and attack back during the TK part. The only person to do was Black Sun, and that's because he had the NPI to do so by pulling the TK like a rope to him. While we haven't seen him dodge in his TK, it won't be quite a stretch to say he can since he can just move his hand that's TKing as he dodges.

Your assumptions are based off of the Riders already knowing what you do and not going in for physical H2H like they've been shown to do, which they do not.

How else are they supposed to close the gap, especially when Queen's going to fly out of range of them? Are they supposed to stand there and just punch the air as they become pin cushions for their danmaku? I admit that they usually fight using CQC, but they're not above trying to throw stuff like their swords at people or using TK to close gaps, doing whatever it takes to win (via SBA). You said Queen's going to fly out of range from them, then the only logical thing for CQC guys to do is to close the gap to initiate CQC in any plausible and possible way available for them. Taking by what you've said, they'll be seeing Queen fly with the chair and would go "She's flying, we need to catch her. She's flying with that chair, we have to destroy it not to have her fly anymore". They're not morons and they should be skilled enough to notice.

Also, please just show me an instance of the Riders being able to dodge Danmaku because your arguments only work if the riders are dodging just one attack at a time, which they are not. Queen and Berdly's attacks cover a wide amount of range. If they dodge one attack, there'll still be like 10 more waiting for them in the dodgable areas. Kris's SOUL is a lil heart so it can weave in between those cracks but the Riders are not. I just find it incredibly hard to believe that they would be able to dodge every single one of them all the time like what you claim. It's just enhanced senses, not instinctive reaction. Spider-Sense, this is not.

Another thing I will admit, they have not dealt with danmaku. The only thing closest to danmaku is against multiple gun users Kaijin Shadow Moon and Mantis Kaijin had to outmanoeuvre to escape. Kaijin Form Black Sun and Shadow Moon scales to Mantis Kaijin, who has shown to dodge bullets, with Kaijin Form Shadow Moon having a scene of his own where he does this, though a few bullets bounced off him. This is Kamen Rider Black Sun and Kamen Rider Shadow Moon fighting them, not their kaijin forms, meaning they'll be more than likely to be able to effortlessly dodge at this point. Their Kaijin Forms already had enhanced senses and with their rider forms, these enhanced senses carry over in addition to having additional enhanced senses AND extrasensory perception. While sure they're no Spider-Man, neither is Kris nor the player, and they still can dodge the danmaku effortlessly assuming we're having a composite player of the player is extremely skilled. Having enhanced senses and extrasensory perception will definitely help them on this front. That doesn't mean I won't count the possibility that they're hit, at which they have their terrifying tenacious stamina, and their amps which will at least soften the blow even if it's just a bit and their damage reduction.

As stated before, they've only been shown to be able to hold one target at a time. And even if they are held, Queen is able to spawn in projectiles without making a motion, meaning the attacks would not even stop. Shadowmoon would just be concentrating on holding Queen in place and get blasted point blank by an attack. And Black Sun at the same time has to deal with Berdly.

Again as stated before by me, Shadow Moon fights SINGULAR opponents, that's why he only uses one hand and one at a time, even then it was enough to overwhelm several people to the point it became a 1v1. There's no reason why someone with telekinesis can't use both arms to utilize it. And since by the time they've got into CQC range and are grappling both of them (disregarding TK for the moment), they'll probably use the Deltarune Duo's bodies to block the oncoming danmaku coming for them, and it's even easier for Shadow Moon with his TK to bring her off her chair to use her as a body shield. Black Sun against Berdly won't be too much of a problem either, assuming Shadow Moon hasn't ended him yet or used him to whack Queen to disordinate her or Queen to whack Berdly.

There's one thing I failed to say about Shadow Moon's Telekinesis. Way into my first reply and even here, they have stat amps that can at least help them out. Turns out I overlooked the fact that Shadow Moon can amp his telekinesis for more power and range (not the several meters thing, the width I mean), meaning it's entirely plausible for him to grab Queen and Berdly with just one hand.