• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Isaac Clarke vs Envy

Status
Not open for further replies.
Messages
11,638
Reaction score
21,057
I've recently finished reading through Fullmetal Alchemist and I thought this match up could be interesting.

Conditions:
Speed Equalized.
SBA is assumed unless stated otherwise.
Normal Envy is used for obvious reasons.
Envy has knowledge on who Nicole is, her physical characteristics, what has happened to her, and Isaac's relationship with her.

Vs

The Maker: @TheAngryOrange, @Jackpact, @Armorchompy, @Theglassman12, @XSOULOFCINDERX, @Deceived3596, @Arc7Kuroi

The Envious:

The Inconclusive:
 
Last edited:
Been thinking about this one for a bit.

I can see a few scenarios playing out.

Normally bullets don't to much to envy because their area of damage is so small. Was going to say the same about Isaac's weapons but they are really good at dismembering and Isaac is probably very used to dismembering by now.

If used against his human form, Envy gets cut to ribbons, regenerates, gets shredded again.

We've seen from Mustang that it is possible to suppress a homunculus using firepower, physical might, and pain. Mustang stops Envy in his tracks by blowing out his eyes. Plus if Envy gets too close, Isaac just pops stasis then backpedals a bit.

If used against Envy's true form then Isaac needs to aim for the legs. Against the body the shots might go through Envy like paper but it won't be any more effective than a bullet.

But if Isaac targets the legs, he can continuously cripple Envy.

But then we get to a matter of ammo. Will Isaac run out of ammo before he gets the job done?

The disc saw is probably the least effective in Isaac's arsenal. He has to get too close and just about all his other weapons will do a better job. It would sitll be effective against human envy but not his monster form.

I also don't think the flamethrower will be good either. While it burns hotter than Mustang's flames that extra heat is wasted and Mustang's little carpet bombing technique covers a much wider area.

The javlin gun would be better against Envy's monster form. Not for the javelin but for the electricity.
Seeker rifle's probably better against Envy's human form. Limb's much narrower.

The force gun I'm not sure how good it'll be. It was meant to knock enemies back and I can't help but feel Envy's too strong.

The rivet gun I don't think will be good either. Maybe against the human form by detonating the rivets. But it's not big enough of a boom against the monster form.

DS3 guns Envy gets it worse. I can already think of about a dozen combinations that'll produce a similar result to Mustang's repeated fire bombing.

Overall I'm giving it to Isaac. I do think he'll be dependent on his ammo count but he has weapons that can recreate Mustang's slaughter.

And Envy bringing up Nicole isn't going to do much. Having the Marker use Nichole against his mind is different than a chatty twerp invoking her name. He'll just treat it the same way he treated Norton.
 
Fun match, I actually just played through Dead Space 1. Isaac is about 2.43x stronger, which is very significant but not a stomp, I don't think he'll be able to just chop his limbs off with single attacks. A trick I think Envy can get him with I think is quickly sprouting a tentacle, with much higher LS if Isaac gets grappled he's sort of at Envy's mercy and he gets snatched up by one like 5 times in ds1 so really it should work easily. However between his much superior ranged weaponry, higher AP and stasis, I don't think Isaac is gonna struggle to get the advantage most of the time.

The issue as Orange said is whether he can close things out at all, he has limited ammunition and Envy's regeneration can take him through quite a lot of damage. I understand that DS3 has pretty broken weapons but if Envy's smart about it I don't really know if he'd be unable to just run and waste his ammo. I'm fairly sure his fight vs Mustang comes after a whole lot more fighting which would also have depleted his energy, so he'd be able to take a lot more than that.

Envy being aware of Nicole is really funny, and I think he can actually use it at least a bit, if he manages to get out of Isaac's sight (running is pretty in-character for him) and then turn into her to at least get a cheap shot in. Admittedly I'm not sure how exactly Isaac would react by the end of the series since I only played the (original) first game.
 
@Armorchompy Isaac literally had to fight his inner demons manifested as Nicole trying to kill him for his guilt of letting her die in the second game so, Envy turning into Nicole can throw him off but he’d know it’s not real and he’d probably pull another mustang and start hacking away.

For this fight I think Isaac could eventually overwhelm Envy and just blast him to the point of his stone running out. The tentacle arms Envy has he’s dealt with in nearly every single game at this point and he knows how to dismember easily, Stasis will slow Envy down a lot which makes him an easy target, slap that with whatever weapon augments he can slap together in DS3, he’d probably have no problem draining the stone’s power, plus his wide reserve of healing kits can help him last a while.
 
Actually, how tough is the Philo stone? Cause if it isn't that tough i could see Isaac accidentally destroying it during one of the shootout when Envy didn't regen fast enough to cover it or get slowed by stasis.
 
Envy turning into Nicole can throw him off but he’d know it’s not real and he’d probably pull another mustang and start hacking away.
I don't think Envy himself would expect anything more than that.
For this fight I think Isaac could eventually overwhelm Envy and just blast him to the point of his stone running out. The tentacle arms Envy has he’s dealt with in nearly every single game at this point and he knows how to dismember easily, Stasis will slow Envy down a lot which makes him an easy target, slap that with whatever weapon augments he can slap together in DS3, he’d probably have no problem draining the stone’s power, plus his wide reserve of healing kits can help him last a while.
I'm aware that shooting limbs is Isaac's whole thing but there's a difference between that and immediately reacting to such a change in close quarters, I wouldn't necessarily expect that to be something he can predict and react to in time.

Still my main argument is that I really disagree that Isaac is able to drain all of that power. Keep in mind the Mustang fight happens after Envy's Stone is almost entirely destroyed and he rebuilds it off assimilating a bunch of mannequin monsters, so that's not the peak of his Philosopher's Stone energy, and even then he tanked Hawkeye mag-dumping him with like 6 different guns and Mustang burning his vitals several times over, and carbonizing his entire chest once. Isaac does have an AP advantage but Greed upscales a lot from his rating especially when in his real form so it's not a massive gap, so even just dealing normally lethal damage will require a good expenditure of bullets per lethal wound, and it's not like Envy's gonna sit there and make no effort to dodge or fight back. I guess it's up to however much ammo you give him but like, he'd need to obliterate several tons' worth of Envy multiple times over, it's honestly an AOE question as much as it is an AP one (Admittedly I'm not as familiar with DS3 weaponry beyond the general understanding of it being modular and getting pretty OP, but I don't think it really changes much).
Actually, how tough is the Philo stone? Cause if it isn't that tough i could see Isaac accidentally destroying it during one of the shootout when Envy didn't regen fast enough to cover it or get slowed by stasis.
I'm going to be real I don't remember if it has any feats of durability. I think it's related to how many souls it has? Because 10-C worm Envy smashes his own to kill himself.
 
Last edited:
Riza’s guns and rifle leaving bullet holes on his body isn’t the same as his limbs being chopped off, one would take more energy to regenerate than the other, which Isaac has the AP to do just that. Not only that but Isaac’s weapons in DS3 has different passive properties like being able to inflict stasis or acid burning or electricity with each shot that lands. Slap that with his stasis having pretty damn good range against someone who’s mostly close quarters, Envy’s got one uphill battle to deal with in terms of Isaac’s arsenal.
 
Riza’s guns and rifle leaving bullet holes on his body isn’t the same as his limbs being chopped off, one would take more energy to regenerate than the other, which Isaac has the AP to do just that.
Do they? I'm not saying they wouldn't make big wounds but that doesn't equal immediate dismemberment, the AP advantage needed for that is frankly well beyond a "baseline" one-shot which is already a much bigger gap than what we're dealing with here. It'd be a deep gash and nothing more, and with how big his real form is that wouldn't be such a problem.
Not only that but Isaac’s weapons in DS3 has different passive properties like being able to inflict stasis or acid burning or electricity with each shot that lands.
Sure, they can do that. But they can't do all of that at once, I presume. You'd have to claim that Isaac had the absolute best theory-craftable weapon for this exact specific situation prepared ahead of time, which is rather questionable, especially when several available effects would be useless.
Slap that with his stasis having pretty damn good range against someone who’s mostly close quarters, Envy’s got one uphill battle to deal with in terms of Isaac’s arsenal.
Again, he doesn't need to match Isaac's arsenal, he just needs to outlast it. Stasis also has limited supply, and I never put into question that Isaac could more or less reliably land hits on Envy, so it's not very relevant (although it is a projectile, and therefore dodgeable).
 
Last edited:
With the constant damage that Isaac would deal, especially with something like the ripper blade which is meant for prolong shredding per blade, I’d argue he can dismember Envy with enough shots.

Never said that they’d do it all at once, just the fact they have these properties in general is a bonus for Isaac, plus there’s only so many combination of weapons he’d have so he can eventually get those weapons out.

Stasis isn’t really limited in usage when one of the upgrades Isaac’s suit can get is a slow recharge of Stasis as opposed to him using a stasis pack to refill the entire thing, plus he can fire 4 stasis shots before he’d need to use one pack out of however many he can carry.
 
The ripper blade is like, really easy to avoid if you're not an idiot, respectfully, just stand out of its obvious range and start chucking rocks at Isaac. It works on dumbass zombies, not so much on people capable of thought. And also like, is that a DS3 thing, cause if not he wouldn't really have it with the cooler guns.

Having properties is nice but like, i don't think it really changes the main conceit here.

The more stasis packs he's carrying the less ammo he's carrying, I don't think that's good for him. Slow recharge sure, how slow are we talking?
 
It’s easy to avoid unless you get hit with stasis which slows you down immensely, especially when Isaac can freeze the twitchers, who’s entire gimmick is moving really fast, so that’s not gonna help much.

Not really a concession when it’s built in with a lot of his weapons in dead space 3. Plus envy doesn’t have much in terms of resistances to these effects so this will be useful in the long term.

Man if only DS3 had it to where a good chunk of his weapons can fire hundreds of bullets, with a single full clip, plus Stasis doesn’t cover much space, it only takes 3 to fill one slot, which is a lot of stasis shots before he’d need to move onto the next pack. The recharge ranges from like 30 seconds to a minute, so assuming this would be a back and forth of Envy trying to swat and grab Isaac as he’s blasting in return, he’d be able to get some of the charges back.
 
It’s easy to avoid unless you get hit with stasis which slows you down immensely, especially when Isaac can freeze the twitchers, who’s entire gimmick is moving really fast, so that’s not gonna help much.
You can just dodge Stasis, it's a projectile. And twitchers make zero effort to dodge shit still, they just run at you
Not really a concession when it’s built in with a lot of his weapons in dead space 3. Plus envy doesn’t have much in terms of resistances to these effects so this will be useful in the long term.
It doesn't really matter if he doesn't resist fire or electricity, those just do normal damage, he can regen
Man if only DS3 had it to where a good chunk of his weapons can fire hundreds of bullets, with a single full clip, plus Stasis doesn’t cover much space, it only takes 3 to fill one slot, which is a lot of stasis shots before he’d need to move onto the next pack. The recharge ranges from like 30 seconds to a minute, so assuming this would be a back and forth of Envy trying to swat and grab Isaac as he’s blasting in return, he’d be able to get some of the charges back.
Again like, you keep saying he could potentially have a maybe perfect weapon for the opportunity but to my understanding you can carry two guns in DS3 so if that's the main argument that's very silly. And again, he can just dodge the thing
 
Twitchers side step shots sometimes, also Stasis is an AOE blast, not a simple projectile, the moment it makes contact with anything it releases a massive effect.

Cool, he can regen, doesn't really change the fact he has a limit to his regen and as shown with nearly every single one of the homunculi, constant damage will be enough.

Two guns that each have two separate firing modes, those range from contact beam force gun, to ripper and line gun variety. Also why are you making the assumption that I'm arguing that Isaac only wins because of these extra benefits? I'm bringing these up as extra points to back me up on how much variety Isaac has, his base arsenal is already plenty for someone like Envy, these modded versions with the elemental damage and stasis effects just helps him even more.
 
Do we have any knowledge on the exact number of Souls Envy has in his Philosopher Stone? If I remember correctly, Envy was reaching the limit of his regeneration after a couple dozen times dying. I could always be wrong, but if I'm generally correct, that could be an issue for Envy. If he's stuck in Stasis, he's a sitting duck for Isaac, who can pin cushion him with bullets, javelins, bolts etc. And depending how long that Stasis is attached to Envy, could spell doom for him.

@Armorchompy Actually, I have a question that could be pertinent for how this match goes - do you think Envy would misassume Stasis as a conventional attack (in the sense of causing physical harm, which are basically the only types of attacks he goes up against in FMA) and rather than dodge it, he would try to regenerate through it instead?
 
I must disagree with the idea he needs a massive AP advantage to dismember his opponents in one shot. The minimum for one shot qualification is a 8X AP advantage, right? Bradley, Ling, and Lan Fan could handily dismember the homunculi they fought all the while not having a large AP advantage on their respective profiles.

Weapons like the plasma cutter, ripper, and line gun are effectively giant blades that could cut just as well as their swords. Even if we say he needs multiple shots to dismember Envy, that's nothing new to him. Plus he can still use his flamethrowers and explosives. And we see that even an injury can slow a Homunculus down or stun him. Hawkeye was able to suppress both Lust and Envy with gunfire. I don't think we've seen a Homunculus ignore attacks. The two exceptions being Bradley and Sloth with the latter being because the attacks kept bouncing off him.

Even Gluttony. When he attacks Hawkeye he waits for her to run out of bullets before he tries to eat. And when Fury shows up their gunfire causes him to start stumbling backwards.

In just about every instance bullets kept the homunculus in place until the ammo ran dry.

I see remake stasis isn't up there. Shame since you can get an upgrade that causes flesh to melt right off of bone.

Most of the weapons and crafting parts in his arsenal would be extremely effective here. This isn't a matter of some of the weapons are good against Envy. Most of them are good against Envy. But let's say that the weapons with small areas of effect cannot dismember Envy.

I'm gonna be using DS3 terms since you can remake just about all the guns in DS3. That does away with the military engine and telemetry spike primary fire.

That leaves the rest. Acid, stasis, and electricity will do a great job Many of the plasma core produces either does line damage or explosions. Tesla core either does line damage or electrocutes and since Envy is mostly human in composition eletrocution will still work. Survey charge are explosives and the homunculi have a history of getting destroyed by explosions. Rip core is effectively gives you a very long scifi sword. And we've seen that Homunculi don't like swords either. And the telemtry spikes have explosive and electruction seocndary fires so those will also be good as long as he makes use of secondary fire.

That only one that probably wouln't work is the force gun whic comes from the plasma core. It's a low damage high knockback but Envy should have high enough strenght to resist.

Yeah, if you slapped a weapon together by randomly picking out DS3 weapon parts chances are you'll land on something effective against Envy.

This gets even worse if we do away with DS3 weapons and focus on DS 1&2 since most of the weapons don't use the military engine or telemetry spikes. They use the plasma core, tesla core, or the survey charges. They use thigns that either cut in a line or explode.

It should also be noted the regeneration also has flaws to it.

The more grievous the wound the longer it takes to regen. Ling used this by detonating Gluttony then using the regen time to tie him up.

Also there's Bradley vs Greed. We see that you can overtax the regeneration. Later on in the fight Greed was struggling to stand from wounds that he was walking off just moments ago.


I'd also like to point out stasis has an AOE effect. So he doesn't need to hit Envy himself, he could jsut hit the ground Envy is close to.


Also, while this doesn't accurately reveal how much ammo it'll take to kill Envy, it's a reference.

If I recall, Bradley said he killed Greed fifteen times. Greed didn't die but he was beginning to show fatigue. Also he said kill. I'm guessing haphazard slices and dismemberments didn't count.

Ling and Lan Fan landed around 20 hits to Gluttony on screen. This includes dismemberment, decapitation, disembowlment, and just normal kicks and punches. While he didn't die, Pride admitted it wouldn't be long before he did.

Mustang bombed Lust 8 times in the final encounter before she died, 9 if you count when he was with Havok.

During their final encounter Mustang bombed Envy 21 times before he got turned into a worm. This is just the final encounter so we don't know how many times he got bombed both during the initial and during the chase in the halls. I also did not count the times Hawkeye shot him.

I counted 23 hits on Sloth. I included the ones that bounced off of him, the times he ran head first into the walls, and when Armstrong and Izumi's husband double teamed him I counted it as 2 hits.
 
Grace has been reached.

Unless uncontested enough, this thread will be accepted and applied to the profiles by tomorrow.
 
Grace has ended and the match has been added to both profiles.

This can be closed now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top