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Omega never disappoints me, you have good taste
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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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??? What does Heroes have to do with people on here, like me, expressing our issues or opinions on DBS? Because you can still like a franchise but have problems with parts of said franchise that you either don't like or feel indifferent to, not everyone is going to blindly consume every aspect of a series if it's something they don't like or find enjoyable.
A part of me thinks that the ending of the Goku Black arc being the way it is is likely a result of making an antagonist that's far too strong narratively speaking, like if Black and Zamasu hadn't fused into Fused Zamasu then I think Black would've won in the end because his power boosts and his increasingly devastating abilities were starting to overwhelm Vegeta and Goku. And of course Zamasu eventually became IZ and was so strong that they had to put in Zeno to finish the job since no one else could by that point...tis the result of making a far too powerful villain
ZetaMarishi
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To be honest, I like DBS a lot. It has a lot of problems, but honestly I genuinely do vibe with a lot of it.
Sure, it has its bad parts that have been mentioned before (though tbh I like some things that people here seem to hate regardless), but honestly its peaks are just out of this world. Episode 131 of the anime probably still has my favorite fight in the entire franchise with Goku, Freeza, and 17 vs Jiren.
Honestly, I also like the Moro and Granolah arcs in the manga. Unironically. That being said, monthly releases kinda dick them over a lot, but I enjoyed them a lot on a re-read (even if I also didn't dislike them when I was going around the first time).
It's definitely not as good as OG DB/Z, I'd be pretty blitzed out of my mind if I thought that myself, but I like it well enough.
That being said, I do need to rewatch GT subbed at some point. Not even just to find out which one I like more, but just to refresh myself on it. It's been over 10 years since I did so.
Sure, it has its bad parts that have been mentioned before (though tbh I like some things that people here seem to hate regardless), but honestly its peaks are just out of this world. Episode 131 of the anime probably still has my favorite fight in the entire franchise with Goku, Freeza, and 17 vs Jiren.
Honestly, I also like the Moro and Granolah arcs in the manga. Unironically. That being said, monthly releases kinda dick them over a lot, but I enjoyed them a lot on a re-read (even if I also didn't dislike them when I was going around the first time).
It's definitely not as good as OG DB/Z, I'd be pretty blitzed out of my mind if I thought that myself, but I like it well enough.
That being said, I do need to rewatch GT subbed at some point. Not even just to find out which one I like more, but just to refresh myself on it. It's been over 10 years since I did so.
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would i be one of the few people who think the battle of gods movie is one of the only modern db media that is as good as some of the highs of Z
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Judging from the Supreme Kai's comment about Buu's attack on the Kaioshin, Shin should be 5 million years old. Old Kai and Chroana (though the latter is DBH and Xenoverse only) are both 75 million years old (former also being sealed).Small crt
Shin Dragon Ball longevity
According to Akira Toriyama, Kaioshins can live for 75,000 years, that would give a longevity for the Kaioshins Kaiōshin are born as Kaiōshin. There are three of them, and they work in shifts. Though there are two of them on duty now, if one of the Kaiōshin were to die in an accident, then...vsbattles.com
The 2009 Super Exciting Guide previously only mentioned 75,000 for regular Kais.
Accelerated_Evolution
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Battle of two 5-C Old Man
Master Roshi VS Whitebeard (Edward Newgate) Speed is equalized Both are Moon Level Both start at 10 meters of distance "MAX Power Form (Resurrection 'F' Saga)" key for Roshi and "Marineford" key for Whitebeard are being used Fight happens at Mercado Público de Pelotas (just a random idea...
Accelerated_Evolution
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well then using canon goku...
Accelerated_Evolution
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They are also using Xeno/CC Goku, but they didn't say that in the preview
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they showed movie stuff, as fair as i heard, they are compositing for both chars
Hasty12345
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I think Luffy actually makes a compelling argument for Zeno. The universe 9 erasure when Whis is looking into his staff shows the same white starry looking void that we see when Zeno erased Zamasu.
Killerdrone123
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Are you doing this just because of fear that db would be downgraded from tier 1
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why does mean literally anything?
Killerdrone123
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The same space was shown in manga to when a timeline got erased I told this before I am telling it now to they wouldn't show destruction of timeline in manga if they didn't mean it anime cause anime came first before manga
Hasty12345
Username Only- 6,447
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Well someone mentioned something about if the macrocosms were destroyed individually, we’d see neutral space. That is not inherently true, and U9s erasure shows us it’s definitely not true.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 6,447
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That’s not an argument.
Killerdrone123
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The big plot points are literally taken from anime zeno destroying trunks timeline is one of the big plot points
Hasty12345
Username Only- 6,447
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We know the two mediums aren’t 1:1.
I have no interest in continuing to debate this, I was just making the comment Luffy’s position isn’t as unfounded as you guys made out.
Killerdrone123
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Doesn't change the fact that there measure events are same
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the events of the manga and anime diverge way too much from one another to anyone to remotely use one to prove anything for the other
Killerdrone123
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The idea of the entire timeline getting destroyed is literally one of the measure plot points of the arc I have literally said it they won't give a proper explanation in manga for destruction of timeline if only u7 got erased in anime there was no need to be extra in manga where there was not even merged zamsu in manga so they could have just shown destruction of u7 in manga to
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this doesn't change what i said at all
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It's a nostalgia thing at this point. As a child I thought it was peak fiction but then I grew up and realized Dragon Ball has always been mid af. I mean some people underrate it, it DOES have some depth and complexity not everyone notices, but the writing has always been rather lazy and sometimes forced. I don't think it's that good.
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Yeah no, 23rd Budokai to Frieza is the strongest stretch of shounen I've ever read. Most series would be lucky to have something as good as the Cell and Buu Saga.
Dragon Ball has held up extremely well as I grew up and studied literature.
Dragon Ball has held up extremely well as I grew up and studied literature.
Hasty12345
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DB up to the end of Z is really good, anyone who says otherwise is straight up lying.
DBS on the other hand...
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Why in particular? Most of the series is just dumb fun. I'm not saying it's all dumb fun, don't generalize me with that crowd, but it is generally not a story that tries to be complex, and a lot of the character development is rather generic and predictable with the exception of Piccolo.
Saying the Buu Saga is top quality even by the standards of "most series" I find very disagreeable. Controversial topic but, imo, Buu Saga is probably the weakest Z arc by far, for many reasons. I think the Cell Saga was one of the best though.
I mean it's probably an opinion thing. If you care mostly about action and fun adventures and everything in that category, then sure I can understand that. I'm more of a story guy and I focus on more subtle, complex stories with a lot of depth and detail to both the plot and characters. A story like Arcane.
But as far as shonen anime goes, HXH, to me, is like a better version of what Dragon Ball wanted to be as a franchise.
Also, while I agree with you on how the 23rd Budokai to Frieza Saga is the peak of the series, the Red Ribbon Army Arc was mid af, Tao was the best part by a mile but he got ruined later in the series.
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Or maybe their tastes just aren't the same as yours. A lot of people prefer different kinds of stories. Which is why a lot of non Dragon Ball fans will often refer to it as just nothing but hype power-ups and fights with no coherence or consistency. Which is wrong, but, it says a lot about their perspectives and preferences.
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Base? Eh, idk. But he'll definitely be WAY stronger.
Hasty12345
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This might be controversial, but I think what is "good" isn't the same as "what I like/enjoy".
I can say DB is good but also say "I don't like it."
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This right here is something I agree with immensely. There's a reason why there are groups of people who prefer the Z era of Dragon Ball, GT, Super, or anything else in between while simultaneously also having a dislike for certain aspects of the franchise.
Just because you're a fan of a series doesn't mean you have to like every aspect of it, you know? Like how I personally like Z, the movies, games, and Heroes but I don't like Super all that much....and it's not because I don't like Dragon Ball, it just so happens that a part of the series just doesn't appeal to me. So, really, it just goes to show that there's nothing wrong with being a fan that doesn't like part of their favorite franchises. Everyone's entitled to their own perspective and, even if they say something you might disagree with, you got to learn that people have different tastes and don't let it impede your enjoyment.
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Stating something is dumb fun is not spectacular grounds for establishing an opinion on a series. A simple story isn't a bad story.
With character development being predictable thing, just, no. At best its Vegeta, who is still a great character, but everyone else, yeah no, neither predictable nor 'generic'.
Calling Dragon Ball generic is my litmus test for reading comprehension. It popularized nearly all of the biggest anime tropes, so calling it generic when it was one of the first ones to do it is wrong on all kinds of levels.
Buu Saga is the second litmus test, because beyond pacing, the strongest marks against the arc are just 'it didn't happen how I want it to happen therefore bad'. Buu Saga I think is a phenomenal capstone to the series.
For why I think Dragon Ball holds up? Well I could write an essay on that lol. It's got some phenomenal character work, the 23rd Budokai arc is about the most foundationally sound story I've seen in anime/manga, god tier fights obviously, fantastic villains, and while the plot is comparatively simple to other animes, beyond the first half of the cell Saga, the plot is pretty solid.
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From inherented wills with 23rd Budokai, to the good ole underdog hard work story line with the saiyan saga, to nature vs nurture with frieza saga, then the coming of age with future trunks and gohan in the cell saga, to the next generation and the pursuit of happiness with the buu saga, I think they all tell wonderful stories. Simple? Sometimes. But if you care enough to look past the already great surface level narrative, you'll find some even deeper things ingrained in it all, like goku's wish to bring uub back being what he actually wanted as a child.
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How you present and tell a story is just as important as the depth of its writing. Dragon Ball is a very good story told extremely, extremely well, sometimes on accident.
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This isn’t really a response to you rather I’m just using you as an example.
A lot of the times dragon ball fans claim they want the story of dragon ball to be one way or another, but a lot of the time stuff they ask for is what they already accuse dragon ball of being. Kakumei for example is seen by many to be better than super. Even though it’s literally what they accuse super of being, kakumei literally is just what if Toriyama answered all the fan theories. For example GoD Frieza (makes no sense) Gohan becaming a pride trouper (makes no sense) ssjG Goten and Trunks (makes no sense).
Earlier I saw another commenter state that DBS is just a hypefest which I vehemently disagree with. While I’m not denying that sup has its hype moments. Just like Z or OG-DB or LITERALLY ANY SHONEN EVER!!! It’s not what all hype there’s character moments but most people only ever remember the big hype scenes. We’re all entitled to our own opinions but I think it’s kinda disheartening that some individuals will simplify DBS story as nothing more than hype.
We ironically have a story that’s all fights and just hype and the character is ironically inspired by Son Wukong like Goku it’s called god of highschool and that story isn’t anywhere near as well written as DBS imo.
That’s all I’ll probably go back to being afk now lmao.
Eden_Warlock99
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Zen Buu carries
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More than half of buu saga criticism is just thing didn't happen that I wanted to happen which makes it automatically bad
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