Mario AP Downgrade

[JJSliderman]

I feel like consistency is very arbitrary, like I’d argue that the consistent nature of tier 4 and 3 stuff, while not as notable as the sub-tier 5, is still good enough. But eh.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I think it counts as consistency if the characters struggle to perform the feat or stuff like that

 

[JJSliderman]

All the tier 3 and 4 stuff seems very casual, Lumas doing it as part of their life cycle, Yoshi doing it with a simple ground pound, etc.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

You can argue that ralph being turned into a constellation is a transmutation feat. Which seems more likely? But thats offtopic

 

[Blunt_Claw]

By the way everyone is focused so hard on anti-feats that the most important part of the OP is getting ignored.

Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? This is going to be a bit of a tangent, but yes.

• In 64 and Galaxy, Mario is (in base) capable of fighting foes that gain a massive power increase from Power Stars, despite some of them being already physically superior to him without need of buffs:
  • Bowser, who is almost universally portrayed as superior, though comparable, to Mario, without need of upgrades, is the biggest example, but there are others. Mario even fights Giant Bowser in Galaxy/Galaxy 2 where his buff (Grand Star) is even superior to a Power Star's. Taken at face value, this would give us a scaling chain of: Mario =< Bowser << Power Star Bowser << Grand Star Bowser >= Mario, which obviously makes no sense.
  • King Boo is fought in Mario 64 DS, and is such a powerful and prominently reoccurring villain that I don't think it's necessary to post scans of him being capable of easily threatening the cast in base.
  • Eyerok is fought as a boss again in Mario Kart DS, and defeated in a very similar manner. Notably, he is destroyed, and releases no stars at all.
  • King Bob-Omb/Big Bob-Omb serves as a boss battle in Mario Party 9, Mario Party Island Tour, Mario Party Island Tour, Mario Kart DS and Mario & Luigi Paper Jam. In all of those games he is capable of threatening the main cast (sometimes several at once) without need of Power Stars.
• Not only that, but the portrayal of characters who are receiving this amp that is allegedly universal between one another is very inconsistent, as is Mario's scaling to them.
  • Baron Brr, Wiggler, Bugaboom, Goomboss, King Kaliente, Major Burrows, Mandibug Stack, Topmaniac, Glamdozer can all be harmed normally.
  • Big Bullies, Chill Bullies, Mr. I, Eyerok, Whomp King, Dino Piranha, Bouldergeist, Mega-Leg, Tarantox, Boomsday Machine, Digga-Leg, Gobblegut, Megahammer, Peewee Piranha, Rollodillo, Sorbetti and Squizzard are all too powerful for Mario to face directly, forcing him to exploit their weaknesses to deal damage.
  • Big/King Bob-Omb is fought, but he seems to be treating this as more of a gentlemanly contest than a genuine fight, given that if you throw him off the top of the hill, he says that you must fight him with honor, considers the match null, and starts the fight again, seemingly having taken no actual damage. Additionally, he is capable of overpowering Mario with ease, and must be grabbed from behind, where he cannot reach, to lift him.
  • Mario can straight-up one-shot Giant Piranha Plants amped by a Power Star.
• In conclusion: The scaling is broken for three reasons: First off, certain Bosses empowered by Power Stars are already capable of threatening the Mario cast without them, causing a scaling loop if Mario is simultaneously comparable to their Power Star AP and their base AP. Second, the power level of Power Star users is wildly variable, with Mario being capable of contending directly with enemies who are comparable to him even without the Stars (King Boo, possibly Goomboss), but needing to use trickery to defeat otherwise fodder enemies (Bullies, Mr. I). Third and most bizarre, Bowser can never be harmed in Mario 64, and must be tossed into explosives to win, but in the Galaxy/Galaxy 2 boss battles, where he has an allegedly stronger amp, Mario can hurt him directly, which is a massive inconsistency. The scaling being inconsistent is actually something VSBW used to support, we once rated Mario as 3-C only when amped, and he was only scaled to the rating in base when the 4-A feat got rejected.

 

[Lou_change]

Lumas doing it as part of their life cycle

Why does that make it casual cosmog isn’t high 3-A because it’s evolves into something that is

 

[Armorchompy]

Ultimately the Mario cast still survives all this, and the main reason they get hurt is either Game Mechanics so that the minigame can happen or for the sake of comedy. Mario Party is an event that the entire cast agrees to do and is completely fine with, it would make no sense if they were actually in any mortal danger or constantly were receiving immense amounts of pain; not to mention in the various story modes characters rarely seem to be hurt after a minigame even if it's somehow painful. As for the examples given...

Surviving something but being hurt is still an anti-feat, I've explained that MP is too scripted to be GM, so not really.

Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capability

Are you serious? A 3-C character trying to destroy a 9-A boulder and failing isn't an anti-feat? That's insane, I'm just gonna ignore this type of argument LMAO

and again Bowser barely flinches in the face of these bombs I'd hardly call this an anti-feat just because his video game health bar went down.

This is literally how you beat him, yes it is an anti-feat lmao.

Bowser and Lava:

• Given Bowser survives lava, usually without taking any damage, literally every other time; this is an outlier in the face of Bowser's other feats involving lava.

Lava can vary in temperature as I mentioned in the OP. Curious how you missed that.

• Bowser isn't burned here at all, he just can't reach Mario at this point, we even see later on that Bowser is little more than stunned by this.

Little more than stunned is still an anti-feat!

From now on I'm just going to ignore this type of argument. A 3-C character has no business being hurt, staggered, or inconvenienced by anything tier 9 or 8, and you need to be on some insane levels of delusion to believe otherwise.

• Bowser cannot fly, at least most of the time, so this is most likely yet another instance of Bowser being BFR'd. There's no evidence Bowser was actually damaged by the fall. Additionally, using long falls as an anti-feat is looked down upon in general, much like characters being threatened by bullets, considering writers almost always vastly overestimate the potency of such things.

I don't care if it's looked down on lol. It's being backed up by plenty of other stuff, like or not it's an anti-feat.

... Fair on the rest, though.

• Again, Bowser clearly is not on his A game in NSMBDS, this is most likely an outlier compared to his other feats. Not to mention, law of regeneration, if someone can regenerate from a blow they're probably gonna be more vulnerable than they realisitically should be for the sake of showcasing that regeneration.

What? No that's not a "law", you just made that up LMAO.

• Like, do you want me to mention that Bowser only screams on his way down and dosn't scream in pain or anything when he actually hits the ground?

Could be he got knocked out or just got the air knocked out of him. There's precedent for the former.

• I strongly doubt Bowser's castles are gonna be less durable than Mario, especially considering one of his castles can fight Giant Bowser, which means that the explosion would likely need to be able to damage Mario to bring it down.
• This is Bowser's airship, it's not unlikely it's similar in durability to his castles.

One of his castles modified by Fawful. The castles in SMW are as far as we can tell very normal castles. It doesn't make sense for them to be Giant Bowser level anyways given Giant Bowser >> Mario and Mario destroys the World castles in a few hits.

• I don't know why this wasn't in the falling segment, but this is actually valid. However, it's an outlier in the fact of Bowser's many, MANY higher feats.

How many times can you keep saying that?

• Bob-Ombs are weapons made in order to damage Mario and other enemies of Bowser, and if they couldn't damage Mario it would be stupid for Bowser to throw them at him.
• Again, these bombs were in Bowser's home turf, they were likely made to be able to damage his enemies who are comparable to him.
• These cannonballs were fired from Bowser's ship and are Bowser's weapons, likely meant to damage Bowser's enemies and would naturally compare to the durability of said enemies.

See point 8 on the blog. Bowser throws plenty of shit in Mario's way that doesn't scale to him, like y'know, Goombas.

• Frankly, Bowser's scream seems to come more from surprise, frustration and annoyance than from pain. Which makes sense, I doubt these castles are cheap.

What? No that's just complete headcanon. Your debunks are literally just saying "this doesn't count" and then making up a reason. He's clearly screaming in pain.

• The same Boomsday Machine which is comparable to Mario in power and durability, and an explosion would need to be comparable to if not superior to Mario's power in order to destroy it.

The explosion in question does not destroy a galaxy, and you better not try to argue AP = DC for an explosion which is literally an uncontrolled release of power.

• Bowser's hand doesn't appear to be hurt at all, he just struggles to pull it out.

Which is also an anti-feat.

• Because Bowser had no footing at the time, those rocks would only need to overpower his weight. Bowser doesn't really appear harmed by these rocks (No black eye or other similar comedic injury)

He screams in pain.

• Again, attack potency =/= destructive capability. And it's not stated Mario needed Bowser's help for this anyways, it could have just been the most convenient way to get all three of them outta there. Not to mention it's pretty obvious the moon rocks are in some way supernatural.

I just want to stress how fucking insane it is to say that a 3-C character cannot destroy a rock formation. Just like, think about it for a second and realize how deeply stupid that is.

• The beam appears to be electric in nature, which is consistent with the dragon's electric attacks in the fight. Because metal conducts electricity, electricity will rarely destroy anything made of metal.

Powerful enough electricity will absolutely melt metal.

• For an explosion to destroy the Brobot, it would need to be comparable to the Brobot's durability.

Sure, fair enough.

• Yoob's eggs should probably compare to Yoshi eggs, which are used by Yoshis to damage Bowser and should compare to their regular attack power.

They're literally just falling, man. Something potentially having 3-C AP doesn't mean it outputs 3-C AP when it falls.

• Yeah, no, this is also lifting strength, he's pushing it. Not to mention it's a giant-ass drill, the fact it's not drilling through the rock on it's own is questionable, which could mean the rock is more durable than normal rock.

More durable than normal rock? Sure. 3-C rock? Insane.

• The same papercraft creations that can damage enemies comparable or superior to Mario with physical attacks. Not an anti-feat.

They're just... falling here. They're not attacking or adding any special kind of energy, they're just dropping. Yes an anti-feat, thank you.

• The boss in question is a ghost possessing an ice wall, it being a glass cannon would honestly make sense. Frankly I don't have enough context to say much about this one.

He can physically hurt Luigi, so nah. In fact he can literally eat him alive.

I think this is enough, the rest falls under cases I've mentioned already. Literally barely any of your debunks are valid. All you do is say "this doesn't count" and then make up some invalid reason as to why it doesn't, be it that somehow getting hurt by something isn't enough for it to not be an anti-feat (wrong), that AP=DC (sometimes true but definitely not when a character is trying to destroy an object) or that anything that can hurt the cast scales to them (insane). A few debunks are fair enough, but that is a huge minority.

As far as I'm concerned, my thread stands unchanged.

 

[Lou_change]

See point 8 on the blog. Bowser throws plenty of shit in Mario's way that doesn't scale to him, like y'know, Goombas.

Why shouldn’t they

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why shouldn’t they

Would you like a list of times Mario has one-shot Goombas?

 

[Armorchompy]

Why shouldn’t they

Cause they're Goombas, man. Like I don't wanna simplify too much, I understand that there's some more nuance to it, but the mf be literally stomping them by the dozen

 

[JJSliderman]

Bowser’s Minions

 

[Armorchompy]

That's the nuance, yeah. I honestly think there's probably an argument to be made although I don't think i'd agree, but regardless, it isn't accepted and in fact repeatedly rejected as is.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I think this thread can be summed up
"Nobody read the ******* blog besides people who agree"

 

[JJSliderman]

I read it, I just disagree with the stance this wiki takes on outliers.

 

[Armorchompy]

I can- genuinely- respect that, battleboarding be subjective, but they are still there so

 

[Blunt_Claw]

I read it, I just disagree with the stance this wiki takes on outliers.

Anti feats aren't the only reason tier 3 is an outlier.

Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? This is going to be a bit of a tangent, but yes.

• In 64 and Galaxy, Mario is (in base) capable of fighting foes that gain a massive power increase from Power Stars, despite some of them being already physically superior to him without need of buffs:
  • Bowser, who is almost universally portrayed as superior, though comparable, to Mario, without need of upgrades, is the biggest example, but there are others. Mario even fights Giant Bowser in Galaxy/Galaxy 2 where his buff (Grand Star) is even superior to a Power Star's. Taken at face value, this would give us a scaling chain of: Mario =< Bowser << Power Star Bowser << Grand Star Bowser >= Mario, which obviously makes no sense.
  • King Boo is fought in Mario 64 DS, and is such a powerful and prominently reoccurring villain that I don't think it's necessary to post scans of him being capable of easily threatening the cast in base.
  • Eyerok is fought as a boss again in Mario Kart DS, and defeated in a very similar manner. Notably, he is destroyed, and releases no stars at all.
  • King Bob-Omb/Big Bob-Omb serves as a boss battle in Mario Party 9, Mario Party Island Tour, Mario Party Island Tour, Mario Kart DS and Mario & Luigi Paper Jam. In all of those games he is capable of threatening the main cast (sometimes several at once) without need of Power Stars.
• Not only that, but the portrayal of characters who are receiving this amp that is allegedly universal between one another is very inconsistent, as is Mario's scaling to them.
  • Baron Brr, Wiggler, Bugaboom, Goomboss, King Kaliente, Major Burrows, Mandibug Stack, Topmaniac, Glamdozer can all be harmed normally.
  • Big Bullies, Chill Bullies, Mr. I, Eyerok, Whomp King, Dino Piranha, Bouldergeist, Mega-Leg, Tarantox, Boomsday Machine, Digga-Leg, Gobblegut, Megahammer, Peewee Piranha, Rollodillo, Sorbetti and Squizzard are all too powerful for Mario to face directly, forcing him to exploit their weaknesses to deal damage.
  • Big/King Bob-Omb is fought, but he seems to be treating this as more of a gentlemanly contest than a genuine fight, given that if you throw him off the top of the hill, he says that you must fight him with honor, considers the match null, and starts the fight again, seemingly having taken no actual damage. Additionally, he is capable of overpowering Mario with ease, and must be grabbed from behind, where he cannot reach, to lift him.
  • Mario can straight-up one-shot Giant Piranha Plants amped by a Power Star.
• In conclusion: The scaling is broken for three reasons: First off, certain Bosses empowered by Power Stars are already capable of threatening the Mario cast without them, causing a scaling loop if Mario is simultaneously comparable to their Power Star AP and their base AP. Second, the power level of Power Star users is wildly variable, with Mario being capable of contending directly with enemies who are comparable to him even without the Stars (King Boo, possibly Goomboss), but needing to use trickery to defeat otherwise fodder enemies (Bullies, Mr. I). Third and most bizarre, Bowser can never be harmed in Mario 64, and must be tossed into explosives to win, but in the Galaxy/Galaxy 2 boss battles, where he has an allegedly stronger amp, Mario can hurt him directly, which is a massive inconsistency. The scaling being inconsistent is actually something VSBW used to support, we once rated Mario as 3-C only when amped, and he was only scaled to the rating in base when the 4-A feat got rejected.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I read it, I just disagree with the stance this wiki takes on outliers.

the only correct opinion

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Yeah man the same people who saw luigi fall in spm; see him take no fall damage told by the game. Or LM2. And assumed antifeat

I think this thread can be summed up
"Nobody read the ******* blog besides people who agree"

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah man the same people who saw luigi fall in spm; see him take no fall damage told by the game. Or LM2. And assumed antifeat

Yeah shit be inconsistent man, doesn't mean you can ignore all lower end showings

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Imo, we should wait for Smashor to reply, and see until then. For now I remain neutral

 

[Lou_change]

Would you like a list of times Mario has one-shot Goombas?

Neat but they also constantly harm Mario

• Serve as Private Goomp’s primary method of attack in dream team,
• Are used in one of Bowser’s special attacks in Bowser’s inside story,
• A wheel made of nine paper goombas one shot Mario and Luigi in paper jam,
• Shiny RoboBowser’s fight has goombas attack Mario during a chase sequence,
• A group of Goombas capture Toad in Super Mario RPG.
• Mario party
• Bowser’s Minions and its sequel
• Toads are often shown to be afraid of goombas despite every toad with feats being comparable to Mario and few if any of them are implied to be particularly strong for their species

 

[Armorchompy]

pls don't derail

 

[Lou_change]

pls don't derail

So me countering your argument

See point 8 on the blog. Bowser throws plenty of shit in Mario's way that doesn't scale to him, like y'know, Goombas.

Is derailing?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Neat but they also constantly harm Mario

• Serve as Private Goomp’s primary method of attack in dream team,
• Are used in one of Bowser’s special attacks in Bowser’s inside story,
• A wheel made of nine paper goombas one shot Mario and Luigi in paper jam,
• Shiny RoboBowser’s fight has goombas attack Mario during a chase sequence,
• A group of Goombas capture Toad in Super Mario RPG.
• Mario party
• Bowser’s Minions and its sequel
• Toads are often shown to be afraid of goombas despite every toad with feats being comparable to Mario and few if any of them are implied to be particularly strong for their species

I'm gonna go with Mario one-shotting is more impressive than them just harming Mario... also Bowser plowed through like three armies of copies of his minions in the Dark Star Core fight lol

pls don't derail

But I like to derail!

 

[Armorchompy]

It is because we don't accept goombas to scale to mario and you'd need to do it on a separate thread

 

[Nierre]

I share the same opinions as Kirbonic and Clover

 

[Armorchompy]

Kirbonic was neutral leaning towards agreement, Clover disagreed, I'm not sure what that is

 

[Nierre]

Kirbonic was neutral leaning towards agreement, Clover disagreed, I'm not sure what that is

LOL

I meant I'm neutral due to both of their reasons.

 

[JJSliderman]

Anti feats aren't the only reason tier 3 is an outlier.

Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? This is going to be a bit of a tangent, but yes.

In 64 and Galaxy, Mario is (in base) capable of fighting foes that gain a massive power increase from Power Stars, despite some of them being already physically superior to him without need of buffs:

Bowser, who is almost universally portrayed as superior, though comparable, to Mario, without need of upgrades, is the biggest example, but there are others. Mario even fights Giant Bowser in Galaxy/Galaxy 2 where his buff (Grand Star) is even superior to a Power Star's. Taken at face value, this would give us a scaling chain of: Mario =< Bowser << Power Star Bowser << Grand Star Bowser >= Mario, which obviously makes no sense.

*In all those instances Bowser has to be nerfed to some degree (like burning his tail or hitting him with trees), or it’s redirecting his own attacks, and it generally still requires multiple whacks in the first game to deal any damage to Bowser. Plus Mario has a Luma amp

• King Boo is fought in Mario 64 DS, and is such a powerful and prominently reoccurring villain that I don't think it's necessary to post scans of him being capable of easily threatening the cast in base.

*King Boo didn’t have a star in 64 DS so this is moot

• Eyerok is fought as a boss again in Mario Kart DS, and defeated in a very similar manner. Notably, he is destroyed, and releases no stars at all.

*The characters are not physically hitting Eyerok themselves, they’re ramming into him with a kart. I wouldn’t call this a Base Mario Vs Eyerok fight.

• King Bob-Omb/Big Bob-Omb serves as a boss battle in Mario Party 9, Mario Party Island Tour, Mario Party Island Tour, Mario Kart DS and Mario & Luigi Paper Jam. In all of those games he is capable of threatening the main cast (sometimes several at once) without need of Power Stars.

King Bob-Omb himself may have just gotten stronger, which makes sense considering he has a bunch of moves in Paper Jam he didn’t have in 64.

• Not only that, but the portrayal of characters who are receiving this amp that is allegedly universal between one another is very inconsistent, as is Mario's scaling to them.
  • Baron Brr, Wiggler, Bugaboom, Goomboss, King Kaliente, Major Burrows, Mandibug Stack, Topmaniac, Glamdozer can all be harmed normally.
• Brr has to be blown out with a spin first, Wiggler is only fought when Mario has power stars, same with Bugaboom, Kaliente needs his projectiles reflected, Burrows needs to be knocked out of the ground and stunned, Mandibug stack is the same as Bugaboom, Topmaniac needs to be tossed into electricity to hurt him, Glamdozer needs a ground pound which is Mario putting in more force than usual (plus he has power stars at this point).
• Big Bullies, Chill Bullies, Mr. I, Eyerok, Whomp King, Dino Piranha, Bouldergeist, Mega-Leg, Tarantox, Boomsday Machine, Digga-Leg, Gobblegut, Megahammer, Peewee Piranha, Rollodillo, Sorbetti and Squizzard are all too powerful for Mario to face directly, forcing him to exploit their weaknesses to deal damage.
  • Big/King Bob-Omb is fought, but he seems to be treating this as more of a gentlemanly contest than a genuine fight, given that if you throw him off the top of the hill, he says that you must fight him with honor, considers the match null, and starts the fight again, seemingly having taken no actual damage. Additionally, he is capable of overpowering Mario with ease, and must be grabbed from behind, where he cannot reach, to lift him.
  • Mario can straight-up one-shot Giant Piranha Plants amped by a Power Star.
• This one is just because PP in base downscale heavily, they can still all get the same amp but it doesn’t have to make them all on equal footing.

 

[Lou_change]

I'm gonna go with Mario one-shotting is more impressive than them just harming Mario... also Bowser plowed through like three armies of copies of his minions in the Dark Star Core fight lol

From the same game there is 5 special attacks stronger than his normal attacks that involve minions, a small group of minions overpower Bowser in a shoving contest, and some socks kidnap Mario

 

[Armorchompy]

Lou, please stop man, this ain't the thread for 3-C goombs

 

[Blunt_Claw]

*In all those instances Bowser has to be nerfed to some degree (like burning his tail or hitting him with trees), or it’s redirecting his own attacks, and it generally still requires multiple whacks in the first game to deal any damage to Bowser. Plus Mario has a Luma amp

"Weaken the galaxy level character by hitting him with trees or fire" is blatantly absurd and I am suprised you even said it.

You would need to prove that the luma amp is equal to The Grand Star's amp to make Mario hurting Bowser at all during the end of Galaxy 1 to make sense.

King Bob-Omb himself may have just gotten stronger, which makes sense considering he has a bunch of moves in Paper Jam he didn’t have in 64.

This is straight up speculation with almost no evidence aside from "He started throwing bomb's so he must be astronomically stronger than before!1!!1!"

Anyways here is all the stuff you haven't responded to,I made the Important parts BOLD

• Not only that, but the portrayal of characters who are receiving this amp that is allegedly universal between one another is very inconsistent, as is Mario's scaling to them.
  • Baron Brr, Wiggler, Bugaboom, Goomboss, King Kaliente, Major Burrows, Mandibug Stack, Topmaniac, Glamdozer can all be harmed normally.
  • Big Bullies, Chill Bullies, Mr. I, Eyerok, Whomp King, Dino Piranha, Bouldergeist, Mega-Leg, Tarantox, Boomsday Machine, Digga-Leg, Gobblegut, Megahammer, Peewee Piranha, Rollodillo, Sorbetti and Squizzard are all too powerful for Mario to face directly, forcing him to exploit their weaknesses to deal damage.
  • Big/King Bob-Omb is fought, but he seems to be treating this as more of a gentlemanly contest than a genuine fight, given that if you throw him off the top of the hill, he says that you must fight him with honor, considers the match null, and starts the fight again, seemingly having taken no actual damage. Additionally, he is capable of overpowering Mario with ease, and must be grabbed from behind, where he cannot reach, to lift him.
  • Mario can straight-up one-shot Giant Piranha Plants amped by a Power Star.
• In conclusion: The scaling is broken for three reasons: First off, certain Bosses empowered by Power Stars are already capable of threatening the Mario cast without them, causing a scaling loop if Mario is simultaneously comparable to their Power Star AP and their base AP. Second, the power level of Power Star users is wildly variable, with Mario being capable of contending directly with enemies who are comparable to him even without the Stars (King Boo, possibly Goomboss), but needing to use trickery to defeat otherwise fodder enemies (Bullies, Mr. I). Third and most bizarre, Bowser can never be harmed in Mario 64, and must be tossed into explosives to win, but in the Galaxy/Galaxy 2 boss battles, where he has an allegedly stronger amp, Mario can hurt him directly, which is a massive inconsistency. The scaling being inconsistent is actually something VSBW used to support, we once rated Mario as 3-C only when amped, and he was only scaled to the rating in base when the 4-A feat got rejected.

Nevermind,I failed to spot your rebuttals because your inconsistent formating made them blend in.

 

[Armorchompy]

*In all those instances Bowser has to be nerfed to some degree (like burning his tail or hitting him with trees), or it’s redirecting his own attacks, and it generally still requires multiple whacks in the first game to deal any damage to Bowser. Plus Mario has a Luma amp

Getting your tail burnt isn't gonna giga-drop your durability, man. Also no we don't accept Luma amp.

*The characters are not physically hitting Eyerok themselves, they’re ramming into him with a kart. I wouldn’t call this a Base Mario Vs Eyerok fight.

The karts are comparable to the racers lol

King Bob-Omb himself may have just gotten stronger, which makes sense considering he has a bunch of moves in Paper Jam he didn’t have in 64.

Completely baseless assumption

• Brr has to be blown out with a spin first, Wiggler is only fought when Mario has power stars, same with Bugaboom, Kaliente needs his projectiles reflected, Burrows needs to be knocked out of the ground and stunned, Mandibug stack is the same as Bugaboom, Topmaniac needs to be tossed into electricity to hurt him, Glamdozer needs a ground pound which is Mario putting in more force than usual (plus he has power stars at this point).

Ok? You're still hurting them or physically handling projectiles launched at him, none of this changes things significantly.

• This one is just because PP in base downscale heavily, they can still all get the same amp but it doesn’t have to make them all on equal footing.

Source?? Completely baseless, if the amp exists then it should be similar for everyone, unless you're saying there's a massive variance in which case you just shouldn't assume that it scales to the 3-C feat to begin with.

 

[JJSliderman]

If two people get a 50x amp but baseline dude A was 50x weaker than dude B; they won’t be even strength. Power star amps can function similarly, it’s adding the energy to create a galaxy to your existing energy pool.

 

[MusicRelaxing]

off topic/slight derail but am I the only thought Armor was Agnaa or am I going insane

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Also, 3 cosmic feats?
I beg to differ
Just out of those at the top of my head
-Raphael the Raven
-SM64 world creation
-King Boo dimension creation
-Black Jewel
-Dreamy Luigi
-Bowser turning Yoshi's world into a pop up book
-Mr. L dimension
-Galaxy fuckery
-Numerous black hole feats
-The Stapler in Origami King eating the sun
I didn't even bring up any universal feats here

Some of those are more accurately Tier 4 with others being Tier 2. Thought they were asking what feats were "Tier 3".

And some of those feats are valid while others are being questioned. Though that's what I was going to propose was that if Mario needs to be downgraded from 3-C, I'd advocate High 4-C being the lowest possible proposal. And I have been talked to offsite with the possibility of Low 2-C coming back which I might consider.

Also, the "Getting stronger" isn't a Mario exclusive trope, but Luigi, Donkey Kong, and Bowser also have their consistent "Getting stronger" statements. Bowser and Peach also level up in SMRPG and Super Paper Mario (Bowser levels up in Bowser's Inside Story too). DK also has "He's bigger, faster, and stronger too" as part of the DK rap lyrics. Of course; the changes aren't always super massive to justify a jump all the way to like multiversal in Dream Team. Bowser going from getting overpowered by a base Mario to straight up stomping Mario in the next game without needing a power up can be explained by Bowser getting stronger.

But I was perhaps going to compile stuff later.

 

[Armorchompy]

off topic/slight derail but am I the only thought Armor was Agnaa or am I going insane

waht

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

waht

The PFP

 

[Armorchompy]

dang

 

[Armorchompy]

And some of those feats are valid while others are being questioned. Though that's what I was going to propose was that if Mario needs to be downgraded from 3-C, I'd advocate High 4-C being the lowest possible proposal. And I have been talked to offsite with the possibility of Low 2-C coming back which I might consider.

My thread goes against both of those just as much as it does 3-C. So, obviously you can try but you still have all the anti-feats and stuff.

And no I find that very few of those feats are legitimate, and they should not be assumed to be viable unless they have officially been accepted, given the amount of assumptions that goes into every cosmic Mario feat.

Also, the "Getting stronger" isn't a Mario exclusive trope, but Luigi, Donkey Kong, and Bowser also have their consistent "Getting stronger" statements. Bowser and Peach also level up in SMRPG and Super Paper Mario (Bowser levels up in Bowser's Inside Story too). DK also has "He's bigger, faster, and stronger too" as part of the DK rap lyrics. Of course; the changes aren't always super massive to justify a jump all the way to like multiversal in Dream Team. Bowser going from getting overpowered by a base Mario to straight up stomping Mario in the next game without needing a power up can be explained by Bowser getting stronger.

That's a pretty weak assumption when to get stronger he needs to adventure or whatever, and he usually doesn't do that off-screen. Mario ain't a shonen.