Small Saint Seiya Upgrade

[StekFence]

only tier 1 souls, 8th sense, and canon were accepted.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I guess he creates a universe(Underworld) of souls that is now considered 5-D HDE. Yes, it looks like Low 1-C. (Correct me guys If I'm wrong)

But the problem is that in the revision you opened earlier, including 5-D HDE, it was closed without acceptance in haxes. Or am I missing something?

Haxes are coming later on a new thread. The thread became too clutter

Tier 1 and canon is accepted

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Now it’s like you’re forgetting the whole narrative purpose of the 8th sense is solely revolving around death and how humans interact with the UW…

you’re quick to disassociate the UW with the 8th sense but last thread you were arguing an 8th sense user who was in the UW couldn’t regen a body… this honestly sounds like intellectual dishonesty.

we know very VERY clearly that the UW is the dimension the 8th sense allows one to access.

For one, the imgur you sent above makes no mention of higher dimensions, just says multiple dimensions. The only time a higher plane is ever mentioned is the scene with Illias, which again, has absolutely nothing to do with the Underworld.

I was, because that's how it was portrayed in LC and I was literally saying that to note it shows how the 8th sense was handled differently in TLC than canon (where they can) if you remember. The scene with Ahimsa describes how in LC, the 8th sense just allows one to be lucid and self aware in the Underworld, not that it requires the 8th sense to go there, that's absolutely not the case. The Specters who came to bully him specifically made a distinction between Ahimsa and the regular souls who would come there, even without it.

It's not the only one and that imgur above never mentions higher dimensions, the higher plane description was exclusive to the plane Illias reached.

 

[Georredannea15]

Haxes are coming later on a new thread. The thread became too clutter

Tier 1 and canon is accepted

Based on my experience from the previous revision, I can't say that haxs are correct. But if 5-D HDE was accepted, Hades' Low 1-C looks fine.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I just wanna say I do have a very indepth cosmology blog ready at hand. It will address this, and give higher dimensional AP scaling too.

 

[Hasty12345]

I’m not having this whole debate again.
You’re straw-manning me beyond belief.

when an 8th sense user dies they go to the UW, this happened in Classic and LC.

you’re arbitrarily disassociating Illias from every other 8th sense user. It’s dishonest and we know it’s not what happens.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I’m not having this whole debate again.
You’re straw-manning me beyond belief.

when an 8th sense user dies they go to the UW, this happened in Classic and LC.

you’re arbitrarily disassociating Illias from every other 8th sense user. It’s dishonest and we know it’s not what happens.

Literally what you just did but ok.

I'm not dissociating Illias from other 8th sense users, I'm saying that in neither LC or canon is awakening the 8th sense the criteria for going to the Underworld naturally through the process of death, nor does every soul automatically become 5-D upon death as above (only 8th sense users, and this if Illias feat was a legitimate HDE for simply reaching a higher plane or just range), and that as so, since the plane Illias reached (which was the only one with the higher plane description) has nothing to do with the Underworld, there's no reason to assume it is.

 

[StekFence]

If you feel souls aren’t auto 5d on death, please go make a crt on it. As it currently stands, they are considered 5d here

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Iirc it was only 8th sense users that was accepted as tier 1 on that crt.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

^

 

[StekFence]

Iirc it was only 8th sense users that was accepted as tier 1 on that crt.

That doesn’t make any sense, Ilias says death is the ascension of the soul. And even if that were the case, 8th sense users STILL go to the UW

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

That doesn’t make any sense, Ilias says death is the ascension of the soul. And even if that were the case, 8th sense users STILL go to the UW

That thread was only for the 8th sense, abilities and canon aside, it wasn't for anything else.

 

[Huesito88]

If it wasn't accepted make a separate thread for that Stek

 

[StekFence]

It doesn’t really affect my crt atm, because 8th sense souls can still be held in the UW. The argument doesn’t really change. I have however, updated the op accordingly

 

[StekFence]

If it wasn't accepted make a separate thread for that Stek

I mean, if I got to ig

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

That doesn’t make any sense, Ilias says death is the ascension of the soul. And even if that were the case, 8th sense users STILL go to the UW

8th Sense users can freely move between the realms, they aren't forced there via the cycle of life and death or something. This is even shown in the chapters with Asmita and Ahimsa. Just because 8th sense users can go to a higher plane doesn't necessarily mean every place they go to is a higher plane by default, especially in this case, where the higher plane in question this ability has merit from is completely unrelated to the Underworld.

 

[Hiryu-Z]

Mark me on agree btw

 

[StekFence]

You do know that 8th sense gold souls were in the UW at the wailing wall right? I know you say that the golds regenned their bodies, but regardless of if they did or didn’t, before they did, their souls were still in the UW. My point is that the UW CAN contain that souls of 8th sense characters, like Ahisma, who as we all know, is bodyless

 

[Hasty12345]

Even if you want to fabricate this distinction between realms, Nirvana (where Shaka’s soul resides) is also in the UW.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

You do know that 8th sense gold souls were in the UW at the wailing wall right? I know you say that the golds regenned their bodies, but regardless of if they did or didn’t, before they did, their souls were still in the UW. My point is that the UW CAN contain that souls of 8th sense characters, like Ahisma, who as we all know, is bodyless

And so can finite 3-D places within the regular world (all over Next Dimension), as I said this isn't really a line of reasoning consistent with the story itself, and if you want to call it their lower dimensional aspects or avatars or whatever to reconcile it without making the regular world 5-D, I don't see why the same can't be said for the Underworld instead of defaulting it to the highest possible interpretation.

And it might even be the case that the HDE itself needs to be reevaluated of perhaps just being range (I wasn't too aware of this point about existing in certain places being significant before), because Shaka's soul would've already had the 8th sense after they blew him up, but he returns to the Sala Garden as that soul contained there. Even the scene with Asmita contacting Illias was only about raising his consciousness to contact Illias about the 8th sense (Asmita did not even have the 8th sense at that time, hence why he contacted Illias to get more insight on it).

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

FRA disagree

 

[Victor1251]

As accepted in this thread, all souls of 8th sense people in SS are 5D hde.
As shown here, Hades created the Underworld and sustains it with his Cosmo/Life.


The Underworld can contain souls of dead people, including 8th sense users.(if somebody asks for scans, I will be very sad. You have been warned)
Its a 5d Construct.
Hades is thus Low 1-C.
Scales to all god tiers, manga

Agrees:Hasty,Georre,Hiryu
Disagrees:Unshakeable,SsjGemini

Neutral, I'm following the discussion until I make a decision. Has Underworld been accepted as a 5D construct?

 

[Victor1251]

We see Shaka and Ilias do the same.

there’s no distinction anywhere between this so called “mastery” that somehow changes how the sense functions mechanically.

And yes holding 5D souls means the realm is 5D.

cubes don’t fit in planes.

https://imgur.io/tvDtn6k

It’s explained very clearly how the 8th sense allows users to perceive higher dimensions, and the dimension they’re referring to is the UW.

again whether or not the soul itself is 5D or just has the ability to perceive and access a 5D realm willingly isn’t really relevant, we know the UW is that 5D plane that8th sense users are able to perceive and access.

it scales to Hades at the very least.

This seems to make sense to me

 

[Huesito88]

Neutral, I'm following the discussion until I make a decision. Has Underworld been accepted as a 5D construct?

No, but that's what this thread is trying to argue

 

[Victor1251]

I kind of have to agree because I don’t think cubes can fit inside planes, likewise 5D souls can’t fit inside less than 5D planes.

the worst possible interpretation I can see is that the 8th sense doesn’t grant HDE but allows 8th sense users to perceive higher dimensions, and the UW is that dimension.

so worst possible case I don’t see how Hades escapes being upgraded.

This scan also seems to support Hades' Underworld being a higher dimension. https://imgur.com/gallery/Tg5VaAs

 

[Hiryu-Z]

This scan also seems to support Hades' Underworld being a higher dimension. https://imgur.com/gallery/Tg5VaAs

Also this

 

[AlexZiggy]

Shaka goes back to Nirvana after fighting Shijima. Didn't Deathtoll also threaten to send someone to Nirvana in ND too?

 

[Death_of_Lems]

I still dlmt see how this scales to AP, just range and Soul Manipulation.

wait for my cosmology blog

Regulus destroyed Radamanthys' divine soul, the scale for AP seems simple to me. But I will wait for the blog before I assume anything.

 

[Victor1251]

I just wanna say I do have a very indepth cosmology blog ready at hand. It will address this, and give higher dimensional AP scaling too.

I'm waiting for Part 2

 

[Hasty12345]

if a more in-depth blog is in the process, this should be closed until then.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Regulus destroyed Radamanthys' divine soul, the scale for AP seems simple to me.

Not when every second of the story itself grossly contradicts the notion of these souls being actual 5-D objects or these characters affecting anything on a 5-D scale. I presumed HDE just meant being able to exist in a higher dimension but equating this to them being literally 5-D sized doesn't work with all other context around it. And are we seriously arguing Low 1-C Gold Saints now?

 

[Hasty12345]

I wouldn't attempt to generalize Regulus with the other golds, that's not appropriate whatsoever

 

[Death_of_Lems]

Not when every second of the story itself grossly contradicts the notion of these souls being actual 5-D objects or these characters affecting anything on a 5-D scale. I presumed HDE just meant being able to exist in a higher dimension but equating this to them being literally 5-D sized doesn't work with all other context around it. And are we seriously arguing Low 1-C Gold Saints now?

I am not talking about just any soul, but a divine soul. And honestly, characters like Shura EPGA and Aiolia EPG could easily have a Low 1-C level, so...

I wouldn't attempt to generalize Regulus with the other golds, that's not appropriate whatsoever

I am not generalizing Regulus to all golds, but he is still an 8th Sense user, with a flagrant AP feat.

 

[Hasty12345]

I am not generalizing Regulus to all golds, but he is still an 8th Sense user, with a flagrant AP feat.

that wasn't a response to you

you're not the one crying absurdities like "Are we seriously arguing for low 1-C Gold Saints"

not that that in and of itself is enough to invalidate any sort of upgrade, but the only relevant argument here is whether or not the UW is 5D.

Killing someone with 5D HDE isn't a low 1-C feat, the standards are quite clear a universe sized R^5 structure is needed to be affected/destroyed/created.

 

[AlexZiggy]

I don't see Low 1-C Gold Saints? At best I see Low 1-C 8th Sense users having smurf hax like Asmita.

 

[Death_of_Lems]

that wasn't a response to you

you're not the one crying absurdities like "Are we seriously arguing for low 1-C Gold Saints"

not that that in and of itself is enough to invalidate any sort of upgrade, but the only relevant argument here is whether or not the UW is 5D.

Killing someone with 5D HDE isn't a low 1-C feat, the standards are quite clear a universe sized R^5 structure is needed to be affected/destroyed/created.

Sorry for the misunderstanding then.

Sometimes the standards are at least...weird.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I am not talking about just any soul, but a divine soul. And honestly, characters like Shura EPGA and Aiolia EPG could easily have a Low 1-C level, so...

He pieced his heart with a hole in his chest with Lightning Bolt.

I am not generalizing Regulus to all golds, but he is still an 8th Sense user, with a flagrant AP feat.

Rhadamantys' body isn't 5-D, and neither his soul. The scene with 8th sense Regulus becoming one with the nature of Earth in itself seems like another clear contradiction to the idea their souls are 5-D sized, because I'm pretty sure this would mean they're infinite on a 3-D or 4-D scale.

 

[Hasty12345]

It's like at best 5D soul destruction for Regulus

 

[Hasty12345]

Rhadamantys' body isn't 5-D, and neither his soul. The scene with 8th sense Regulus becoming one with the nature of Earth in itself seems like another clear contradiction to the idea their souls are 5-D sized, because I'm pretty sure this would mean they're infinite on a 3-D or 4-D scale.

or... Regulus did that with a power that's not the 8th sense?

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Creating a hole in his chest and damaging his heart doesn't seem like any soul destruction

or... Regulus did that with a power that's not the 8th sense?

If he has the 8th sense which supposedly makes souls 5-D (infinitely big) then there should be no place in the story for something like that scene.