Writing Discussion Thread

[Shmooply]

Try watching a pacifist run in Fallout. Usually the charisma stat is used often which is what granted the Courier their insane Social Influencing feats

Undertale works too I guess

Nah. A lot of the charisma dialogue for New Vegas and in the other 3D Fallouts are terribly written (and I don't need to explain why), a lot of them tend to feel like buttons you press because you know it'll make you insta-win rather than feeling like your character is actually explaining in-depth why another character is wrong. For nicely written charisma builds in games, I'd suggest something like Arcanum.

But, again, this depends on what kind of charismatic person the lead is. Does she try to start debates with other characters regarding their views? Does she examine their lifestyles and their body movements to gauge out their character and uses it to her advantage? Does she manage to get a crumb of information regarding a character's past and attempts to use it as blackmail? Maybe she's an intimidating character and is good at using scare tactics on even the toughest foes. Maybe she manipulates people as naturally as she breathes? All of the above?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Nah, I just like the idea of certain segments of the mind being real in a higher dimensional realm.

Our dreams and imagination are real but they are in a higher dimensional realm.

But a few amount of people are capable of bringing those dreams to reality, to our dimensions.

With enough dream control, some characters can transcend reality and ascend to higher realms.

That's what I've been thinking off.

This is Megami Tensei or Persona lol.

 

[Deidalius]

This is Megami Tensei or Persona lol.

I never played those games.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

This is Megami Tensei or Persona lol.

I wouldn't say that's entirely true. The crux of Megami Tensei's cosmology is that the mind is largely synonymous with reality itself, as both are composed of the same material (Magnetite/Magatsuhi), You could make the argument aspects of Cognition exist in higher-dimensions, considering the archetypes in the Kadath Mandala are born from humanity, but there's no concept of transcendence or ascendance through "imagination/dream control". MegaTen's notion of transcendence is more so modeled after Buddhism, Hermetic Qabalah, and the teachings of Carl Jung and Abraham Maslow.

 

[Smashtwig]

Damn y’all cooking. I’d jump in but, too lazy

Hopefully nobody steals my writing. I'd probably cry.

and probs this too since I’m paranoid that someone’s gonna specifically screw over my life

how many times has the word “outer verse” or “dimension” appeared in this thread

 

[Peppersalt43]

how many times has the word “outer verse” or “dimension” appeared in this thread

You can find out by using the search function of this forum. There's a setting next to the general search bar which reads "this thread".

Put outerverse or dimension in the search bar and you'll get your answer

 

[Peppersalt43]

In a lower dimension, in a lower level of reality, every possible variation and outcome of the main timelines exist and there are an infinite amount of them, infinite timelines. I don't have a name for those timelines yet. Lower timelines? Unreal timelines? I am open to suggestions but I want a name that makes it clear that those timelines aren't real, compared to the main timelines. That name has to follow the rule of cool too.

There is a way for those timelines from that lower dimension to become real. But at this point, I haven't thought of a good explanation that is interesting that would explain how those timelines can turn into main timelines.

So how about like this, you said a lower dimension. What if said lower dimension is the fiction created by the main timeline? Due to how diverse fiction can be and the amount of fanfics and crossovers there are, it allows for an exponential growth of their multiverse.

Meanwhile the main timelines are merely the dull IRL world and comparatively, the multiverse there does not have the chance to grow in a diverse manner due to the lack of interesting elements that allow for radical change.

However if a fictional world is written closely enough that it can exist in the real world without too much contradiction or if the real world develops in such a way that a fictional universe can exist, said world becomes a part of the higher dimension's multiverse.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Anyway, thoughts?

I think it's fine. I have personally grown weary of infinite multiverses and the actualization "every possibility" into a universe, so a limited multiverse is, at least to me, immediately more interesting than what many fictional settings have adopted as of recent. There's unfortunately not much else I can say on the idea, however. I'm of the belief that every facet of a story, including the cosmology, should serve a greater narrative, thematic, tonal, developmental, or philosophical purpose, so there's not much I can offer without context.

I am open to suggestions but I want a name that makes it clear that those timelines aren't real, compared to the main timelines. That name has to follow the rule of cool too.

I immediately thought of Quantum Superpositions as I was reading, oddly enough. I'm not sure if what I have in mind is entirely congruent with what you've proposed, but I think it's at least some food for thought: As possibilities, the "Lower Timelines" are simultaneously "real" and "unreal" until they either do or do not come to fruition, in the same way light can exhibit the properties of both a wave and particle until it is specifically observed. For instance, a possible "Lower Timeline" could be one in which the president of the United States dies "tomorrow" (in relation to the Main Timeline). "Today" the timeline is in a position of being both real and unreal, as there is a possibility the president could die tomorrow, though we do not which outcome will occur. If a possibility is actualized, the associated "Lower Timeline" becomes one with the "Main Timeline". If a possibility is contradicted or does not happen, it is "observed" as being unreal and thus does not exist. These possibilities, which I would refer to as "Schrodinger Timelines", are what compose the "Main Timeline".

I haven't thought of a good explanation that is interesting that would explain how those timelines can turn into main timelines.

In a similar vein to what I proposed earlier, there could exist an entity (character, object, etc) which has the ability to alter the ontological states of timelines. Through this power, one could transform previously-occurring possibilities to unrealities, reverting their impacts and implications on the "Main Timeline". One could also make nonexistent, "expired" possibilities into reality, causing separate timelines in which they did occur to form concurrent the primary reality and potentially threatening the integrity of the "Main Timeline".

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Including mathematics, philosophy, hermeticsm, kabbalah, daoist and chinese myth, gnosticism, abrahamic, carl jung theories into my written work is a ******* bonker.

 

[Bobsican]

Sounds to me like everyone wants to do bootleg Megami Tensei

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Sounds to me like everyone wants to do bootleg Megami Tensei

Megami tensei aren't quite accurate, I want every myth, theology and philosophy in my works to be as literal as possible.

 

[Bobsican]

Thing is that it's ultimately subjective as there's multiple interpretations, which MT handles well by just taking such multiple interpretations coexisting.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Thing is that it's ultimately subjective as there's multiple interpretations, which MT handles well by just taking such multiple interpretations coexisting.

Cause of human observation bruh.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sounds to me like everyone wants to do bootleg Megami Tensei

Except me it seems lol

Sure I have robbed the **** out of concepts before, but Tensei is not one of them

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Including mathematics, philosophy, hermeticsm, kabbalah, daoist and chinese myth, gnosticism, abrahamic, carl jung theories into my written work is a ******* bonker.

I hope you actually intend to do something with those philosophies and aren't simply adding them for the sake of adding them.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah.

I include Carl Jung's works into my writing because I find them fascinating, and I do personally believe in things like genetic memory (which itself ties back into the collective unconscious), not because it's outerversal or whatever. If you just slap big ideas onto a story without any driving reason or belief behind it, it can and will come off as power scaling bait.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I hope you actually intend to do something with those philosophies and aren't simply adding them for the sake of adding them.

I'm an occultist, what do you expect?

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I'm an occultist, what do you expect?

I expect you, as a writer and a storyteller, to actually utilize concepts to further develop the themes, messages, and concepts of your narrative. Including philosophy and theology is absolutely fine if you're putting them to use, but throwing random ideology together without a specific purpose is just haphazard.

 

[azontr]

I don't insert philosophy into my writings I didn't even know people did that outside of powerscaling bait.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I expect you, as a writer and a storyteller, to actually utilize concepts to further develop the themes, messages, and concepts of your narrative. Including philosophy and theology is absolutely fine if you're putting them to use, but throwing random ideology together without a specific purpose is just haphazard.

The real thing that I delve into this is humanity attempt to ascend or even just being spiritually higher.

By practicing Kabbalah, they seek the light of ein sof ohr, to unite with the infinite divine light itself.

By seeking Dao, one pursue it by learning to understand all thing in creation. Because all that created come from Dao.

And many more if we including another mysticism and philosophy.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

The real thing that I delve into this is humanity attempt to ascend or even just being spiritually higher.

By practicing Kabbalah, they seek the light of ein sof ohr, to unite with the infinite divine light itself.

By seeking Dao, one pursue it by learning to understand all thing in creation. Because all that created come from Dao.

And many more if we including another mysticism and philosophy.

If you have plans to meaningfully incorporate those ideas into your story, that's good. Just be deliberate, is all I have to say.

 

[azontr]

I don't think it's a good idea to cram several philosophical ideologies into one story, because it becomes haphazard and difficult for a reader to understand at that point.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I don't think it's a good idea to cram several philosophical ideologies into one story, because it becomes haphazard and difficult for a reader to understand at that point.

I never intended this to casual reader tho.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I don't think it's a good idea to cram several philosophical ideologies into one story, because it becomes haphazard and difficult for a reader to understand at that point.

I think it's possible, though it's hard to realistically and holistically portray multiple schools of thought in a story without risking its brevity and pacing. Ultimately, only invoking them when they can enrich what you have to say is key. Every aspect of a story should be driven by purpose and thoughtfulness.

 

[azontr]

I think it's possible, though it's hard to realistically and holistically portray multiple schools of thought in a story without risking its brevity and pacing. Ultimately, only invoking them when they can enrich what you have to say is key. Every aspect of a story should be driven by purpose and thoughtfulness.

I never said it was impossible, only that it may not be the most practical idea if you're trying to write a quality work. Since, as you said, portraying such philosophy in a story can be difficult.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I never said it was impossible, only that it may not be the most practical idea if you're trying to write a quality work. Since, as you said, portraying such philosophy in a story can be difficult.

SMT is an example bruh, the story is not good even if the lore and the world building is.

 

[azontr]

SMT is an example bruh, the story is not good even if the lore and the world building is.

I don't play SMT.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

SMT is an example bruh, the story is not good even if the lore and the world building is.

I have...very heavy contentions with that, but I think there are many Megami Tensei that do blend multiple philosophical and religious concepts to further reinforce and expound upon their own rhetoric. The Persona 2 and Digital Devil Saga duologies are good examples.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Just to be clear, is this about the same story you posted in the Touhou discussion thread?

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Just to be clear, is this about the same story you posted in the Touhou discussion thread?

The MegaTen/SCP/Touhou crossover?

 

[Shmooply]

The MegaTen/SCP/Touhou crossover?

(isekai too)

 

[Deidalius]

That fanfic was painfully generic. Like your average isekai harem shonen ecchi anime nowadays.
Did Rakih really made that fanfic? I thought it was another dude

 

[azontr]

MegaTen/SCP/Touhou crossover?

Bruh

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

That fanfic was painfully generic. Like your average isekai harem shonen ecchi anime nowadays.
Did Rakih really made that fanfic? I thought it was another dude

Another bruh, his name is quite Argentina.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I have...very heavy contentions with that, but I think there are many Megami Tensei that do blend multiple philosophical and religious concepts to further reinforce and expound upon their own rhetoric. The Persona 2 and Digital Devil Saga duologies are good examples.

DDS does have a decent one.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The MegaTen/SCP/Touhou crossover?

I don't remember if it was a crossover, but it was an isekai where the protagonist quips like an MCU character and proceeds to solo both the entire Touhou cast all at once and several religious pantheons so uh

Make of that what you will.

 

[Sparkive]

I just found out that this exists, I aspire to be a writer, so I'll follow this

 

[azontr]

I don't remember if it was a crossover, but it was an isekai where the protagonist quips like an MCU character and proceeds to solo both the entire Touhou cast all at once and several religious pantheons so uh

Sounds zased.

 

[Peppersalt43]

The MegaTen/SCP/Touhou crossover?

That fanfic was painfully generic. Like your average isekai harem shonen ecchi anime nowadays.
Did Rakih really made that fanfic? I thought it was another dude

Did this by any chance end up in the "Worst Fanfiction Thread"?

 

[Bobsican]

But yeah, even if multiple ideas thrown at once sounds good, the more ideas handled at once the more risky it is.

Just look at Chicken Little, the premise of a child that has family issues, school issues and then having to save the world from aliens sounds good on paper, but it's handled poorly out of not dedicating sufficient time to each topic, nor each topic complementing each other.