Demigod Kratos Tiering

[Aetheric Pariah]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kratos-4-a.149453/

Sort of a continuation from this thread, but basically current demigod kratos isn't too valid for a solid tier 4 rating.


This is mostly an in-verse thing, but kratos simply being of that tier as an absolute just isn't concrete. He doesn't have the sufficient scaling or feats, nor the backing in-verse consistently.

It should be changed back to his original tier 7 rating with a possibly 4-A tier. This would fit better for his current standing in-verse and not create outright discrepancies with Redeemed Warrior as it exists now. It's a singular generous interpretation of their feat scaling to the entire cosmology. It exists, but shouldn't be taken as pen on paper.

 

[Planck69]

Neutral for now.

 

[KLOL506]

At this point I'm just indifferent. As long as 4-A stays and maybe RW gets it (There was no reason to get rid of Tier 4 from him anyway), I pay no heed anymore.

@Theglassman12 @GilverTheProtoAngelo @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @LordGriffin1000 @BEASTHEART880 @Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin @Lacku @Dienomite22 @Mister6ame6 @ATalentedMaid @ByAsura Thoughts?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Needs five swings to cut trees.

 

[KLOL506]

Needs five swings to cut trees.

Can't even break through a door.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Nah. I think it should stay solid 4-A. Why go for a random feat that was performed casually and isn't quite consistent tier wise either, as there are no other Tier 7 feats for Kratos and Co.

The most consistent tier is actually 9-A

But for the Warriors, I don't even know why tier 4 was removed for them, they're weaker than Kratos and the Furies, but not by that much.

Perhaps a Varies tier?

Maybe a Tier 6-A with the Hammer of Atlas? KLOL calced it around that level. Which would also give them a Class Z Upgrade.(some might say it's actually a Tier 2 feat as its possible it contains the weight of the world pillar, but there's no evidence for this, and given it's element it definitely means the planet.)

And then a Tier 4 with the Blade of Ares, that rivals the blades of chaos? And finally tier 2 with God tier weapons.

Not sure why they have Tier 7 for simply fighting a Manticore. Pretty random. They also fight Cyclops which the novel reveals are serious threats to Kratos. Along with Fighting Hercules.

 

[ByAsura]

I agree, obviously. But idk if this would affect all of those kinds of feats I general. So I'm going neutral since this is targeted at GoW specifically.

Can't even break through a door.

Can barely overpower a child.

Nah. I think it should stay solid 4-A. Why go for a random feat that was performed casually and isn't quite consistent tier wise either, as there are no other Tier 7 feats for Kratos and Co.

Technically, the Furies' own calculation was 7-B originally. But I agree with the rest of your sentiments.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Technically, the Furies' own calculation was 7-B originally.

Yeah true, but that kinda means fuckall at this point when you can see the sun in the background.

 

[KLOL506]

Technically, the Furies' own calculation was 7-B originally. But I agree with the rest of your sentiments.

Meh, it could be higher due to volcanoes and malestroms but whatever.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

The higher end was like High 6-C or something like that if memory serves

 

[KLOL506]

The higher end was like High 6-C or something like that if memory serves

From the storms? Seriously?

 

[ByAsura]

Assuming the faux sun is actually 1.4 million km, but I digress.

Now, since we're doing this, I might as well ask if there's any kind of implication for something higher (barring the Furies being Primordial blood). Like is there an enemy that might've done something even remotely cosmic in scale? Even something like controlling starlight.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Yeah creating a sky full of Stars

 

[ByAsura]

Aside from that bullshit, of course.

 

[KLOL506]

Nah. I think it should stay solid 4-A. Why go for a random feat that was performed casually and isn't quite consistent tier wise either, as there are no other Tier 7 feats for Kratos and Co.

Meh, not worth splitting hairs over.

But for the Warriors, I don't even know why tier 4 was removed for them, they're weaker than Kratos and the Furies, but not by that much.

Well there's Polyphemus and co. but they do have a direct feat of harming Manticores so 7-B is as solid as it gets for them.

Maybe a Tier 6-A with the Hammer of Atlas? KLOL calced it around that level. Which would also give them a Class Z Upgrade. (some might say it's actually a Tier 2 feat as its possible it contains the weight of the world pillar, but there's no evidence for this, and given it's element it definitely means the planet.)

Cosmos and "world" is differentiated in Ascension as is shown by the Hyperion Spear, but eh, he's supposed to get Tier 2 via godly weapons so what do I know

And then a Tier 4 with the Blade of Ares, that rivals the blades of chaos? And finally tier 2 with God tier weapons.

Weapon specific mostly TBF.

Not sure why they have Tier 7 for simply fighting a Manticore. Pretty random. They also fight Cyclops which the novel reveals are serious threats to Kratos. Along with Fighting Hercules.

Herc is a crapshoot honestly.

 

[KLOL506]

Assuming the faux sun is actually 1.4 million km, but I digress.

Now, since we're doing this, I might as well ask if there's any kind of implication for something higher (barring the Furies being Primordial blood). Like is there an enemy that might've done something even remotely cosmic in scale? Even something like controlling starlight.

Anything on that scale and you're entering Tier 2 territory (Like, straight up Primordial, Titan and Olympian fuckery), which I don't have to tell you, is a massive outlier for Demigod Kratos. No way in hell should he scale to that shit given that Chains of Olympus and GoW1 exist and show the massive power disparity between Kratos and the Gods, and I've made my mind clear on that. Of course, there is a certain person here who disagrees, but that'd just cause a civil war LOL.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Assuming the sun isn't just actually 1.4 million km, but I digress.

Now, since we're doing this, I might as well ask if there's any kind of implication for something higher (barring the Furies being Primordial blood). Like is there an enemy that might've done something even remotely cosmic in scale? Even something like controlling starlight.

No.

Which is my point, this isn't some attack on pocket dimension feats, but rather a very specific instance in-verse. It takes a fair amount of interpretation for a singular feat, for the weakest version of demigod kratos at that. Tier 7 for demigod is far far more consistent here, that's the point I'm trying to drive home.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

From the storms? Seriously?

If memory serves, it might have been the sea

 

[ByAsura]

Anything on that scale and you're entering Tier 2 territory (Like, straight up Primordial, Titan and Olympian fuckery), which I don't have to tell you, is a massive outlier for Demigod Kratos. No way in hell should he scale to that shit given that Chains of Olympus and GoW1 exist and show the massive power disparity between Kratos and the Gods, and I've made my mind clear on that.

Of course I mean for characters in this league. But anything is useful, even if it's just implication.

Of course, there is a certain person here who disagrees, but that'd just cause a civil war LOL.

They can speak for themselves, they know who they are

- Hell's Kitchen.

 

[KLOL506]

If memory serves, it might have been the sea

Didn't find one for it, and even then, it'd need to use the Creation Feats table instead now.

I did a rough calc assuming the sea was at bare minimum 20 km from Kratos to the Horizon in either side (That's half, so I assumed square, half a side being 20 km means each side in full is 40 km), then I found the 362 m average sea depth of the Aegaean, and then multiplied with seawater density ranging from 1020-1029 kg/m^3 (Average being 1024.5 kg/m^3), and I got roughly 5.9e14 kg which is just barely Low 7-B. This doesn't count the volcanoes but whatever.

 

[KLOL506]

They can speak for themselves, they know who they are

- Hell's Kitchen.

Don't have to, I'll just shoot them on sight for being deserters.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Didn't find one for it, and even then, it'd need to use the Creation Feats table instead now.

I did a rough calc assuming the sea was at bare minimum 20 km from Kratos to the Horizon in either side (That's half, so I assumed square, half a side being 20 km means each side in full is 40 km), then I found the 362 m average sea depth of the Aegaean, and then multiplied with seawater density ranging from 1020-1029 kg/m^3 (Average being 1024.5 kg/m^3), and I got roughly 5.9e14 kg which is just barely Low 7-B. This doesn't count the volcanoes but whatever.

What about the sea churning and tornados?
Can't we get KE to add to this sea PE.

 

[ByAsura]

Given that Hunga Tonga, the most powerful eruption since Krakatoa, was 5-30 megatons, we might not be looking at much.

But, eh, I've seen some ******* ridiculous volcano calculations.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Well there's Polyphemus and co. but they do have a direct feat of harming Manticores so 7-B is as solid as it gets for them.

Yeah but why exactly do we cherry pick that one enemy? Shouldn't Cyclops and Cerberus scale above Manticore? They kill plenty of those.

Cosmos and "world" is differentiated in Ascension as is shown by the Hyperion Spear, but eh, he's supposed to get Tier 2 via godly weapons so what do I know

Yeah, That's also just a way more specific description than the Hammer tbf so I guess it's in the mud

Weapon specific mostly TBF.

Yeah my exactly. Just weapon specific tiering.

Herc is a crapshoot honestly

True. But don't the Brady Guide of GOW 3 mentioned he became a full on God?

So he could have been simply tier 4 by that time

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah but why exactly do we cherry pick that one enemy? Shouldn't Cyclops and Cerberus scale above Manticore? They kill plenty of those.

Because the 4-A stuff is done in explicit reference to Kratos and the Furies.

True. But don't the Brady Guide of GOW 3 mentioned he became a full on God?

That's after GoW1, his labors finish then.

So he could have been simply tier 4 by that time

Nah, no way, Ascension takes place before Chains. Atlas wasn't chained up there yet.

 

[KLOL506]

Anyway, I've got class, I'll tackle this later.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah but why exactly do we cherry pick that one enemy? Shouldn't Cyclops and Cerberus scale above Manticore? They kill plenty of those.

Because it's the only enemy that directly scales to the Python feat.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Because the 4-A stuff is done in explicit reference to Kratos and the Furies

In which the Warrior should be Backscaling.

Don't they also fight Alecto in monster form in the Multiplayer?

Because it's the only enemy that directly scales to the Python feat.

Well there are enemies that should be comparable to that, and even above that, but yeah the feat itself occurs with the enemy so I get you. Still it's a feat that was effortlessly done. We might as well have gone with all those 9-A feats in Hellbeasts's downgrade thread while having an at most 4-A rating.

That's after GoW1, his labors finish then.

Ascension takes place like 10 years before GOW1.

Nah, no way, Ascension takes place before Chains. Atlas wasn't chained up there yet

Yeah, thats exactly why I think Hercules may have gotten more powerful over time. Meaning he could have been on par with the Furies and Kratos at the time

 

[Planck69]

In which the Warrior should be Backscaling.

I have no problem with this.

Well there are enemies that should be comparable to that, and even above that, but yeah the feat itself occurs with the enemy so I get you. Still it's a feat that was effortlessly done. We might as well have gone with all those 9-A feats in Hellbeasts's downgrade thread while having an at most 4-A rating.

It's currently the best feat not belonging to the Furies. If you know of better feats, you're welcome to surprise me.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

It's currently the best feat not belonging to the Furies. If you know of better feats, you're welcome to surprise me.

Don't the warriors fight Alecto in her monster form? If not, they could be 4-A with the Gauntlets of the Furies, which has Alectos Magic

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Nneutral for now

 

[KLOL506]

Don't the warriors fight Alecto in her monster form? If not, they could be 4-A with the Gauntlets of the Furies, which has Alectos Magic

AFAIK she's only an arena extra, not an actual boss.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

My view hasn't change since the last thread, I'm fine with either solid 4-A or possibly 4-A.

This is almost the same thing as DP, we got a 4-A feat (starry sky warp) supported by ghosts being able to create their own realms (which contain moons and stars though it's off screen) but all other feats are Tier 8 - 6 so it was decided to just scale them to the majority of feats with just "possibly 4-A" even though the feat was clear and the lesser feats had no struggle behind them (Though I could have attempted solid 4-A, we decided to wait until the new material drops for the verse).

But that was a decision based on safety. Unless the lesser feats in God if War have the characters struggling, I don't see a problem with solid 4-A, but if a possibly 4-A is what the more knowledge members agree with I don't have an issue with that either. I'll just let the GoW experts decided on what the characters will solidly scale to if Tier 4 becomes possibly as my knowledge on the series is limited.

 

[Dienomite22]

AFAIK she's only an arena extra, not an actual boss.

She still is stunnable from attacks. The game mentions it when it happens. There is even a mantle that can be worn by the RW which is a piece of ripped-off her skin in that form and they have Gauntlets plated with her scales from her Leviathan form. And before anyone wonders, Leviathan in multiplayer is Alecto as it's the Gauntlet description calls it the "Fury Leviathan" and the Gauntlet is stated to drip with Alectos' magic.

 

[LordTracer]

@LordTracer

Smh I told y’all in the Ragnarök thread that my GoW knowledge was extremely limited and Norse era only

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

She still is stunnable from attacks. The game mentions it when it happens. There is even a mantle that can be worn by the RW which is a piece of ripped-off her skin in that form and they have Gauntlets plated with her scales from her Leviathan form. And before anyone wonders, Leviathan in multiplayer is Alecto as it's the Gauntlet description calls it the "Fury Leviathan" and the Gauntlet is stated to drip with Alectos' magic.

Welp

 

[KLOL506]

Welp

We can worry about bullshit RW shenanigans later.

For now, let's get this over with.

Overall, I don't have much against the "possibly" rating revertion so yeah, sure, go for it.

 

[Planck69]

Between the accepted calculations for the Redeemed Warrior's attack potency, striking strength and lifting strength and some offsite discussion, I'm going to say I agree with the thread itself.

Kratos new tier can be;

At least 6-A, likely 4-A, possibly far higher, 2-C with Divine Weapons.

With the former tier due to being superior to the Warriors.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I want likely as well

 

[KLOL506]

6-A comes from this BTW, it got accepted:

God of War Ascension: Hammer Swinging

vsbattles.fandom.com