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Bump for staff approval for this
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MASSIVE DRAGON BALL UPGRADE
- Thread starter Frey6678
- Start date
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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It would be calc stacking
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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Because he has FASTER FEATS too?
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 10,777
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After three years of training, right?
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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Prior to fighting DKP, he should be at that level pretty casually.
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No basically Kid Goku used to have sub relativistic and relativsitc combat speed but it was accidentally removed I’m just looking for the ok to readd it back
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It wasn't accidentally removed. It was approved to be removed in the last speed revisions.
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Are you referring to the flight speed revision for db? If you are it was just changed to flight speed and kept the same speed but it was just via combat speed
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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it should have it
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Yeah he Scales above Master Roshi who performed a sub rel feat at minimum and I read the flight revision channel I don’t see a downgrade For kid goku and it was said in the thread that this only affected flight speed and they’d be changed to combat speed https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Dragon_Ball)?diff=prev&oldid=7720488
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Master Roshi's Sub-Rel feat was attack speed only.
Some IRL stuff has come up so I won't be able to focus properly on CRT's, but I should be better in about a week. I'll do a reread of the DB manga around then.
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We already addressed that, but it shouldn't be a counter argument against some face value powerscaling. Tien Shenhan's attack speed should also be at least as good if his attack strength is. Also, Dragon Ball is still quite linear when it comes to combat speed/Attack speed scaling as well as AP scaling. And it's not like they're glass cannons either. Goku still dodged the Tri Beam with relative ease and thus his reaction speed should upscale from Tien's Tri Beam which in turn upscales from Roshi's Max Power Kamahameha. Also, Given the Sub-Rel+ is like a hair away from Relativistic, I think they should have Relativistic combat speed.
King Piccolo also considers everything Master Roshi can throw to be nothing which Roshi agreed, implying Max Power Kamahamaha is both slow and weak compared to himself and by extention those who upscaleabove King Piccolo.
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I have some concerns about that which I will address during next week if that's alright.
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Fair, take your time. But I probably will still think basic Dragon Ball scaling standards still stand. But I can wait as can others.
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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Well clearly they should scale to that attack speed
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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Roshi also literally states that the Kikoho's just way beyond anything he could make, so it's insane that they'd be arguing that ONLY Roshi has like a mega god tier Subrel+ kamehameha at the same time as Roshi just thinks that every other attack is way beyond him.
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Attack Speed is Combat Speed I’m pretty sure
Take your time but I checked the flight revisions and there was no mention of downgrading the db character’s speed and I read all the pages just to make sure
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Bump
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When Damage came in and screwed it all over.
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Massive difference. Tien's beam speed itself is made off of a fan calc. Glock bullet speeds are as set in stone in reality as can be. Using IRL projectile speeds as a result, cannot be and will never be calc-stacking.
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I’m confused if the argument for removing it is because Attack speed doenst scale to combat speed or something which is confusing but I’m confused why this was does without a thread since I checked the thread that apparently accepted the speed downgrades but even in that there was no mention of this but i would suggest if it could be changed back to like how it was add combat speed to it
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I'll try to respond to DDM's post later today.
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Okay sounds good
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I might be at work when you post, but another thing I should note. I know it's mostly linear with the powerscaling; there are cases of character A having the advantage in raw power but disadvantage in speed compared to character B, but those cases are still more or less within the same ballpark. But two or more characters within the same tier should never but if character A was overwhelmingly stronger than B, then likewise they should be significantly faster at least. And a character being comparable if not superior could never be overwhelmingly slower. And that's especially true of we're talking about the same fighting styles.
In this case, Roshi did say Goku and Tien were stronger than himself, also both have demonstrated Kamehameha Waves considerably stronger/faster than Roshi's Max Power Kamehameha that each other can react to. Later down the light, Piccolo Jr reacted to Goku's Super Kamehameha Wave, which should be a lot stronger and faster than Roshi's Max power Kamehameha Wave, so Relativistic speed scaling would easily be face value to me well before Saiyan saga some time down the line for me and many others.
In this case, Roshi did say Goku and Tien were stronger than himself, also both have demonstrated Kamehameha Waves considerably stronger/faster than Roshi's Max Power Kamehameha that each other can react to. Later down the light, Piccolo Jr reacted to Goku's Super Kamehameha Wave, which should be a lot stronger and faster than Roshi's Max power Kamehameha Wave, so Relativistic speed scaling would easily be face value to me well before Saiyan saga some time down the line for me and many others.
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For this part I'll just say first that nothing about Roshi's statements indicate a lack of speed is a factor; just that they're too weak and even attacking as a group wouldn't work. If he'd said something like "We'd never be able to hit him" then I'd agree with your point.
Did he say they were stronger than his MAX Power form?
My proposal is that we give Tien "At least Sub-Relativistic+ attack speed with the Tri-Beam" as by statements the Tri-Beam is more powerful than Roshi's MAX Kamehameha, but it isn't confirmed how it compares to it in terms of speed. I don't think we know for certain whether Roshi's statements are comparing the Tri-Beam to his regular Kamehameha or his MAX Power Kamehameha but let's go with it for now.
Goku at that point should have "Likely Sub-Relativistic+" reactions for being able to evade it but not being shown to consistently fight at that speed. He is also aided by the fact that Tien gave him plenty of warning and told him to dodge it.
Demon King Piccolo and characters scaling above him should get baseline Relativistic combat speed for being faster than anything Goku's seen before.
How does that sound DDM?
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Well, Goku also has struggled to dodge Tien's punches, so it would still scale to Tien's combat speed and by extension Goku's combat speed since he fights back on equal footing, but I'm okay with the "Likely" statement for reactions and combat speed. The rest also sounds good to me.
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Okay. Let's go with that then.
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This looks good but why would it be Likely for Goku if he can react to Tien’s speed?
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He was pre-warned and he doesn't necessarily need to be as fast as the beam in order to escape its scope.
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Wouldn’t he still be in that ballpark considering the distance he went to dodge the attack which isn’t as simple as moving your head or a body part of himself but literally leaping like 40 feet into the air
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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Roshi literally can't even imagine the power of Demon King Piccolo, so it's no wonder that this is the time where they start surpassing his previous max power form.
Also, Roshi says it's greater than ALL KAMEHAMEHA IN GENERAL. He thinks no kamehameha in general can ever match his tri-beam, so you'd be arguing that he thinks that it's extremely unmatched by anything possible while at teh same time being massively above it in his max power form. It doesn't make that much sense.
Guacamolefletcher
Username Only- 2,232
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IDK, if he didn't have Subrel+ speed at all, how is he supposed to dodge it even with a warning? With his current rating, that stuff would literally be hundreds of times faster than he is, so clearly he has to scale to that.
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Bump
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This hasn't been forgotten. Just been a bit preoccupied recovering IRL so forum activity has been minimal.
When I get a chance, I'll add the ratings & justifications to the profiles.
When I get a chance, I'll add the ratings & justifications to the profiles.
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Okay sounds good
