Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision

[Reiner04]

actually neutral dimension.

Inter dimensional/neutral dimension/ neutral space/etc/etc/etc.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Luffy, we discussed this in the previous thread.
The kanji used is 空間, which translates into "space; room; airspace", as in a physical space. Like outer space.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Luffy, we discussed this in the previous thread.
The kanji used is 空間, which translates into "space; room; airspace", as in a physical space. Like outer space.

as I said before, space is often used to define dimension in Dragon Ball, I don't think you even answered, after it disappeared, isn't it my friend?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Is "dimension" also used to define a region of outer space housing celestial bodies?
Japanese is a very context-based language.

 

[Vietthai96]

as I said before, space is often used to define dimension in Dragon Ball, I don't think you even answered, after it disappeared, isn't it my friend?

Its Romaji is Kũkan, which mean region of space. In Japanese, Dimension always used Jigen

 

[Vietthai96]

Forgot to say, most accurate meaning is Outer Space, which mean space outside of universe/macrocosm. Neutral Space is not entirely wrong. Still it don't mean much on it own

 

[Aachintya31]

i concede.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

However, let me voice my opinion, the reason for so many headaches here is because of many bad decisions about DB cosmology back in the past

Damn ******* straight

 

[Reiner04]

i concede.

 

[PrinceofPein]

hey pain, since you were the one who made the tier 2 revision, can you give more clarity on this?

Well he is right, but either way, for you to be able to go across a space that are spatio-temporally separate, you still need a form of portal to help you leave and enter these universes even if there is a higer D space that you can tranverse, as you cannot leave contained space-time based on speed alone. maybe immeasureable speed can do it, but well that is another discussion.

 

[RoyGundam]

What happened to the Kaioshin realm being considered a separate space-time? As far as I can remember, people can't physically travel from the world of the living to the Kaioshin realm and vice versa

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

What happened to the Kaioshin realm being considered a separate space-time? As far as I can remember, people can't physically travel from the world of the living to the Kaioshin realm and vice versa

Whis just flies to Universe 10’s Kaioshin Realm to meet with Gowasu and Zamasu (DBS Episode 52 - 53).

Whis flew from Universe 7’s living realm to Universe 10’s Kaioshin realm and Vados flew to Universe 7’s Kaioshin realm.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Whis just flies to Universe 10’s Kaioshin Realm to meet with Gowasu and Zamasu.

Whis flew from Universe 7’s living realm to Universe 10’s Kaioshin realm and Vados flew to Universe 7’s Kaioshin realm.

This has already been explained, my god, they have dimensional flight, don't try to be stubborn, it's impossible to travel to the world of Kaioshins with physical flight, only with teleportation, and dimensional travel

Whis

Whis is an Angel and the attendant to Beerus, the God of Destruction of Universe 7. Like the God of Destruction he was assigned to, Whis is generally laid-back and enjoys trying Earth's delicacies more than performing his actual duties. But he's the only being in Universe 7 able to keep Beerus...

vsbattles.fandom.com

like here, where it is only possible to leave and enter through teleportation



I recommend that you study the entire work before saying this, it is not a normal flight

 

[Reiner04]

This has already been explained, my god, they have dimensional flight, don't try to be stubborn, it's impossible to travel to the world of Kaioshins with physical flight, only with teleportation, and dimensional travel

Whis

Whis is an Angel and the attendant to Beerus, the God of Destruction of Universe 7. Like the God of Destruction he was assigned to, Whis is generally laid-back and enjoys trying Earth's delicacies more than performing his actual duties. But he's the only being in Universe 7 able to keep Beerus...

vsbattles.fandom.com

like here, where it is only possible to leave and enter through teleportation



I recommend that you study the entire work before saying this, it is not a normal flight

Dude, it won't change anything that SDBs, Whis or cubes has to breach the enclosed barriers of different universes or Dimensions within universes to travel to them, all that matters, they achieve the place they want to visit through simple 3 dimensional movement and neutral space can as well be transversed through simple 3 dimensional movement. There is no higher dimensional axis separating the universes and they are all within same spacetime. And if you don't agree with someone's answer than bear in mind that your answer is the one they don't find satisfactory and disagreeing with. You can ask them to review your answer, cannot force them to agree with it.

 

[Aachintya31]

This has already been explained, my god, they have dimensional flight, don't try to be stubborn, it's impossible to travel to the world of Kaioshins with physical flight, only with teleportation, and dimensional travel

Whis

Whis is an Angel and the attendant to Beerus, the God of Destruction of Universe 7. Like the God of Destruction he was assigned to, Whis is generally laid-back and enjoys trying Earth's delicacies more than performing his actual duties. But he's the only being in Universe 7 able to keep Beerus...

vsbattles.fandom.com

like here, where it is only possible to leave and enter through teleportation



I recommend that you study the entire work before saying this, it is not a normal flight

teleportation is one of the ways to travel along with flight.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Dude, it won't change anything that SDBs, Whis or cubes has to breach the enclosed barriers of different universes or Dimensions within universes to travel to them, all that matters, they achieve the place they want to visit through simple 3 dimensional movement and neutral space can as well be transversed through simple 3 dimensional movement. There is no higher dimensional axis separating the universes and they are all within same spacetime. And if you don't agree with someone's answer than bear in mind that your answer is the one they don't find satisfactory and disagreeing with. You can ask them to review your answer, cannot force them to agree with it.

you know the truth, Reiner, if they disagree it's because it's wrong, simple as that, the work is not presented as you want, even in the databook it is said impossible to go to another world through methods,don't start with that again, because this has already been refuted so many times, even by the administrator, it doesn't matter much if they disagree with my opinion, since my point is right here and what the work showed, feel free to create another CRT to remove everything presented verse, your repetitive arguments make me nauseous, avoid repeating something so obvious and refuted.

Where dimensional travel was discussed https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-revision.148648/post-5453845

my points are already approved by the most important administrator here, anyway.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-revision.148648/post-5447405

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

teleportation is one of the ways to travel along with flight.

It's not a physical flight, my friend, you have to accept the harsh reality.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Whis just flies to Universe 10’s Kaioshin Realm to meet with Gowasu and Zamasu (DBS Episode 52 - 53).

Whis flew from Universe 7’s living realm to Universe 10’s Kaioshin realm and Vados flew to Universe 7’s Kaioshin realm.

Accepted as dimensional travel on the wiki

 

[Reiner04]

Accepted as dimensional travel on the wiki

Dude, it won't change anything that SDBs, Whis or cubes has to breach the enclosed barriers of different universes or Dimensions within universes to travel to them, all that matters, they achieve the place they want to visit through simple 3 dimensional movement and neutral space can as well be transversed through simple 3 dimensional movement. There is no higher dimensional axis separating the universes and they are all within same spacetime.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Wouldn’t that imply 2D db? Since the higher dimensional axis isn’t 4D o

 

[Aachintya31]

Accepted as dimensional travel on the wiki

where ? when ? why ?

 

[Reiner04]

Wouldn’t that imply 2D db? Since the higher dimensional axis isn’t 4D o

That would imply 4D timeline as whole, since spacetime continuum are treated as 4D in here. The distance between these 4D structures should be higher dimensional/5D axis or cannot be transversed through simple 3 Dimensional movement.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

where ? when ? why ?

Check Whis’s profile

That would imply 4D timeline as whole, since spacetime continuum are treated as 4D in here. The distance between these 4D structures should be higher dimensional/5D axis or cannot be transversed through simple 3 Dimensional movement.

That would imply 4D timeline as whole, since spacetime continuum are treated as 4D in here. The distance between these 4D structures should be higher dimensional/5D axis or cannot be transversed through simple 3 Dimensional movement.

Ok so if you’re saying if it’s 4D space time continumms the distance would be 5D
But the universes are 3D and the timeline is 4D is this context so that’d mean 2D db?

 

[Reiner04]

Ok so if you’re saying if it’s 4D space time continumms the distance would be 5D
But the universes are 3D and the timeline is 4D is this context so that’d mean 2D db

Which logic are you going with btw. I cannot comprehend this. Way out from this calculation. DB universes will be 3D, timeline will be 4D. Nothing is 2D here.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Accepted as dimensional travel on the wiki

The reasons being…?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well he is right, but either way, for you to be able to go across a space that are spatio-temporally separate, you still need a form of portal to help you leave and enter these universes even if there is a higer D space that you can tranverse, as you cannot leave contained space-time based on speed alone. maybe immeasureable speed can do it, but well that is another discussion.

This is why I find this aspect of the standards being a default to be problematic.

It should be more of a case by case situation as to whether or not physical speed alone can let you traverse space-time since the speed can possibly just be that great rather than the universes physically sharing spaces, especially since we have a note on the speed page about physically traveling universes too Iirc.

But of course, this comment is more of a general onlook rather than something to argue for DBs case specifically.

 

[Omegabronic]

Hm so the assumption is that when it’s branched it’d make another rosat that’s supposedly outside of the timeline as well each time?

think of it like this, someone made the rosat in the main timeline, correct? the event of it being created is in the timeline, correct? so if the timeline splits the event of it being created will happen as well in the splitted timeline since it is part of history, understood now?

griffin is unsure and says he’ll let the rest of the staff handle it and says he won’t comment anymore he’s just saying it’s probably justifiable but Neutral (Possibly learning towards agree) works

good

ill See if I can do that

thank you, it is essential to make this thread progress

my friend, the Universes have different histories and different pasts, how can they get equal space-time?

the USA have a different story than Brazil, are they both different space times? same logic here, specially since they are all affected by time travel equally even when said time travel only happen inside one of them

It is noted that when you created this, you did not read the work, you covered the blinders with your eyes and took random scans to downgrade the verse, read the Zamasu chapter and you'll understand what I'm talking about

can tone down a bit? being accusatory is not going to help

, the neutral space there is a dimension, I hope you understand things well.

by the new standards, there must be proof of a higher dimension separating them

This has already been explained, my god, they have dimensional flight, don't try to be stubborn, it's impossible to travel to the world of Kaioshins with physical flight, only with teleportation, and dimensional travel

Whis

Whis is an Angel and the attendant to Beerus, the God of Destruction of Universe 7. Like the God of Destruction he was assigned to, Whis is generally laid-back and enjoys trying Earth's delicacies more than performing his actual duties. But he's the only being in Universe 7 able to keep Beerus...

vsbattles.fandom.com

like here, where it is only possible to leave and enter through teleportation



I recommend that you study the entire work before saying this, it is not a normal flight

as said above, the said "neutral dimension" seens to be talking about "outer space" rather then a higher dimension, as pointed out by null:

Luffy, we discussed this in the previous thread.
The kanji used is 空間, which translates into "space; room; airspace", as in a physical space. Like outer space.

and viet:

Forgot to say, most accurate meaning is Outer Space, which mean space outside of universe/macrocosm. Neutral Space is not entirely wrong. Still it don't mean much on it own

so this said "neutral space" doesn't mean much and actually helps the downgrade

Wouldn’t that imply 2D db? Since the higher dimensional axis isn’t 4D o

the said higher dimension must be 5D, as said in the faq in this site

you know the truth, Reiner, if they disagree it's because it's wrong, simple as that, the work is not presented as you want, even in the databook it is said impossible to go to another world through methods,don't start with that again, because this has already been refuted so many times, even by the administrator, it doesn't matter much if they disagree with my opinion, since my point is right here and what the work showed, feel free to create another CRT to remove everything presented verse, your repetitive arguments make me nauseous, avoid repeating something so obvious and refuted.

Where dimensional travel was discussed https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-revision.148648/post-5453845

my points are already approved by the most important administrator here, anyway.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-revision.148648/post-5447405

if the said "space" separating the universes is just regular 3D space, then this point hardly matters

 

[Omegabronic]

This is why I find this aspect of the standards being a default to be problematic.

It should be more of a case by case situation as to whether or not physical speed alone can let you traverse space-time since the speed can possibly just be that great rather than the universes physically sharing spaces, especially since we have a note on the speed page about physically traveling universes too Iirc.

But of course, this comment is more of a general onlook rather than something to argue for DBs case specifically.

this seems interesting, but i think that it is worth its own thread, a more general thread, this thread is already quite long, so it is better to not talk about the standards themselves here, you should probably make your own thread for it, that seems interesting tbh

 

[Stefano4444]

The reasons being…?

That the Kaioshin Realm in databooks and even in the DBS manga has been show as be fully separated by the main body, and the Other World can't be access by physical travel alone as well and it requid dimensional travel.

I don't see how It can be argue that travel to those locations wouldn't requid dimensional travel.

 

[Omegabronic]

That the Kaioshin Realm in databooks and even in the DBS manga has been show as be fully separated by the main body, and the Other World can't be access by physical travel alone as well and it requid dimensional travel.

I don't see how It can be argue that travel to those locations wouldn't requid dimensional travel.

it can be dimensional travels, but it is dimensional travel made with regular 3D flight, as now we have evidence that what separates the dimensions is regular space

 

[KLOL506]

this seems interesting, but i think that it is worth its own thread, a more general thread, this thread is already quite long, so it is better to not talk about the standards themselves here, you should probably make your own thread for it, that seems interesting tbh

Not the first time someone tried, but when Zamasu made a thread about Tier 2 fuckery, it got shut down pretty quick by DT. So good luck trying to convince anyone else about it.

 

[Omegabronic]

Not the first time someone tried, but when Zamasu made a thread about Tier 2 fuckery, it got shut down pretty quick by DT. So good luck trying to convince anyone else about it.

i mean, it doesn't hurt to try, right? or we can just nuke tier 2 and everything gets solved

 

[Stefano4444]

this seems interesting, but i think that it is worth its own thread, a more general thread, this thread is already quite long, so it is better to not talk about the standards themselves here, you should probably make your own thread for it, that seems interesting tbh

Yeah, i think this matter its definitely worth to be discussed, especially to determinate if in general parallel universes should be treated as Low 2-C by default (even in case they exist within a single timeline or lack indications of them having never their own space-time/flow of time) or if they should be just 3-A/High 3-A (if they are not explicitly proven to be made by dimensional spaces above 3rd dimension).

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah, i think this matter its definitely worth to be discussed, especially to determinate if in general parallel universes should be treated as Low 2-C by default (even in case they exist within a single timeline or lack indications of them having never their own space-time/flow of time) or if they should be just 3-A/High 3-A (if they are not explicitly proven to be made by dimensional spaces above 3rd dimension).

i mean, this is already the case? separated space times must have 5D dimensional axis separating them, which makes 3d movement impossible to happen when traveling between space times

 

[PrinceofPein]

It should be more of a case by case situation as to whether or not physical speed alone can let you traverse space-time since the speed can possibly just be that great rather than the universes physically sharing spaces, especially since we have a note on the speed page about physically traveling universes too Iirc.

I think the thing about this is that for different timelines, you cannot really reach another timeline by speed, no matter what your speed becomes you either travel back in time or forward in time
and for contained space-times, you cannot reach an end or rather to break out you still need to open a portal or teleportaion and still you must be able to tranverse the space separating them which by default will be much larger than the contained space-time itself, which is why been able to cross through universes that are supposed to be spatio-temporal seperate with physical speed alone is not really possible. I should note thatI have seen good arguments made for immeasureable speed crossing

 

[PrinceofPein]

this seems interesting, but i think that it is worth its own thread, a more general thread, this thread is already quite long, so it is better to not talk about the standards themselves here, you should probably make your own thread for it, that seems interesting tbh

Yeah, i think this matter its definitely worth to be discussed, especially to determinate if in general parallel universes should be treated as Low 2-C by default (even in case they exist within a single timeline or lack indications of them having never their own space-time/flow of time) or if they should be just 3-A/High 3-A (if they are not explicitly proven to be made by dimensional spaces above 3rd dimension).

if the universes are contained in a single timeline then they are high 3A or 3A, and the timeline is low 2-C

 

[Vietthai96]

if the universes are contained in a single timeline then they are high 3A or 3A, and the timeline is low 2-C

what if a universal-sized space-time continuum being contained in a larger timeline???

 

[Stefano4444]

i mean, this is already the case? separated space times must have 5D dimensional axis separating them, which makes 3d movement impossible to happen when traveling between space times

I'm pretty sure those universes are treated as having their own space-time, no matter if they were never stated to have their own space-time.

if the universes are contained in a single timeline then they are high 3A or 3A, and the timeline is low 2-C

Problem it that our current standard consider those universes to be Low 2-C by default even in case they are contain within a timeline.

And not just Dragon Ball, we same its applied in other verses like Saint Seiya or DC.

 

[Reiner04]

what if a universal-sized space-time continuum being contained in a larger timeline???

That had be the case only when universes are separated by higher dimension or more to say, space between universes or universes cannot be transversed by 3D movements such as 3D flight.

If above is not the case then being inside single timeline means low 2C.

 

[PrinceofPein]

what if a universal-sized space-time continuum being contained in a larger timeline???

can I get an example? space-time continuum is a timeline, if they are not spatio-temporally separate, destruction will be low 2-C

Problem it that our current standard consider those universes to be Low 2-C by default even in case they are contain within a timeline.

not anymore, we just finished this thread

And not just Dragon Ball, we same its applied in other verses like Saint Seiya or DC

well they can be fixed later