Hagoromo and subjective reality

[Yaozin]

Their physical embodiments of chakra from the juubi. Chakra=the soul thus their souls come from yhe juubi tho hago could just added personality to them

Where does chakra=soul come from? Anyway, are you going to call the creation of beings with self and will from the energy of "juubi", which is a willless being, "chakra"?

 

[Reio35]

Where does chakra=soul come from? Anyway, are you going to call the creation of beings with self and will from the energy of "juubi", which is a willless being, "chakra"?

Hago seems to equate chakra to the soul and no im saying he could have just made their personalities but not their souls with COAT

 

[TheGod]

I agree , you can also apply TSO feats to this since Yin-Yang is the principal behind TSO too

 

[Yaozin]

Hago seems to equate chakra to the soul and no im saying he could have just made their personalities but not their souls with COAT

What is mentioned there is reincarnation. What does it have to do with our topic?

 

[Yaozin]

Is it just me or is the OP is in an entirely different language?

Is that Turkish or Azerbaijani?

I didn't understand what he was saying.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Is it just me or is the OP is in an entirely different language?

Yes, it's a different language. And I don't know why it's like this.

Is that Turkish or Azerbaijani?

Turkish

What is mentioned there is reincarnation. What does it have to do with our topic?

He clearly says that their souls (chakras) continue to reincarnate.

 

[Yaozin]

Ruhlarının (çakralarının) reenkarne olmaya devam ettiğini açıkça söylüyor.

their souls do not reincarnate. They have no consciousness or will. What is reincarnated is their strength and the constant departure of their chakra from the "yin and yang" lineage. That's it.

 

[Yaozin]

Turkish

who are we talking about?

 

[Yaozin]

He clearly says that their souls (chakras) continue to reincarnate.

For example, when hagoromo came as a "chakra spirit," he was like a normal person, but the ashura and indra whose chakra is transmitted are unconscious. Also, this does not mean that you can make nine souls from one soul. Has a creation action

 

[RaveeCPN]

For example, when hagoromo came as a "chakra spirit," he was like a normal person, but the ashura and indra whose chakra is transmitted are unconscious. Also, this does not mean that you can make nine souls from one soul. Has a creation action

Hagoromo does not specifically create souls for 9 different chakras. Yoton's purpose is to give life to the body created with Inton. But when Yoton gives life to a chakra instead of just a body, a soul comes out. He does not specifically create a soul out of nothing.

 

[RaveeCPN]

their souls do not reincarnate. They have no consciousness or will. What is reincarnated is their strength and the constant departure of their chakra from the "yin and yang" lineage. That's it.

Even so, it still doesn't change the conclusion

 

[Yaozin]

Yine de bu sonucu değiştirmez

Changes. Chakra=soul cannot be taken from this expression.

 

[Yaozin]

Hagoromo does not specifically create souls for 9 different chakras. Yoton's purpose is to give life to the body created with Inton. But when Yoton gives life to a chakra instead of just a body, a soul comes out. He does not specifically create a soul out of nothing.

Creating 9 souls, selves, wills out of 1 chakra cannot be done with "life manipulation" and is superior. Please interpret the capabilities and context well.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Changes. Chakra=soul cannot be taken from this expression.

Yes, chakra does not = soul. But chakra + Yoton allows a soul to form

 

[RaveeCPN]

Creating 9 souls, selves, wills out of 1 chakra cannot be done with "life manipulation" and is superior. Please interpret the capabilities and context well.

As I said, he does not create a soul out of nothing. He just gives life to a body and the chakra in it and that gives birth to soul, will and self.

 

[RaveeCPN]

I mean, I'm not claiming that he never can, but in the case you presented, it doesn't happen.

 

[Yaozin]

Yes, chakra does not = soul. But chakra + Yoton allows a soul to form

nevertheless, this act of "giving life" is superior to "life manipulation" in the naruto sense. I repeat that 9 selves give will and soul. This is not "life manipulation".

 

[Yaozin]

Dediğim gibi, yoktan bir ruh yaratmaz. O sadece bir bedene ve içindeki çakraya hayat verir ve bu da ruhu, iradeyi ve nefsi doğurur.

Dude, this act of "giving life" that you are talking about is actually creating 9 beings with self, will and soul. So this is more than "creation" or "life manipulation". You should read the descriptions.

 

[Yaozin]

I mean, I'm not claiming that he never can, but in the case you presented, it doesn't happen.

It actually happens. You just have to think properly and interpret the context well.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Dude, this act of "giving life" that you are talking about is actually creating 9 beings with self, will and soul. So this is more than "creation" or "life manipulation". You should read the descriptions.

The scan says it " instills" life into them. Not that it specifically creates life in them. And I don't think I need to tell you what instilling means. And for the Inton part, he says he's just creating form. Like a body.

 

[Yaozin]

Tarama, onlara hayat " aşıladığını" söylüyor. Özellikle içlerinde yaşam yarattığından değil. Ve sana aşılamanın ne anlama geldiğini söylememe gerek yok sanırım. Ve Inton kısmı için, sadece form yarattığını söylüyor. Bir vücut gibi.

Dude, you don't really understand the words. You need to improve your interpretation. I say that from a chakra he creates 9 beings, and that this "instillation of life" gives them self, will, and spirit. This is an act of creation. Juubi is a willless creature. Also the panel tells us that he created 9 bijuu and adds. "jutsu turns fantasies into reality" this clearly emphasized that bijuus are fantasies. Only from the chakra of the "ten-tailed" obito says that he did it. What do you not understand?

 

[Yaozin]

Tarama, onlara hayat " aşıladığını" söylüyor. Özellikle içlerinde yaşam yarattığından değil. Ve sana aşılamanın ne anlama geldiğini söylememe gerek yok sanırım. Ve Inton kısmı için, sadece form yarattığını söylüyor. Bir vücut gibi.

I'll tell you in its entirety and make the final point. Hagoromo has managed to create 9 separate human wills from just one energy. That's what the Obiton says in the manga. Also manga>data book whatever. Obito said that in doing so, he used the energy of the ten-tailed and created the bijuu. I guess I don't need to mention the bijuu. They all have separate wills, souls and selves. And to be able to do this only from a "chakra" is clearly an act of "creation." However, according to Vsb, since it is a greater achievement than "creation" or "life manipulation", it is entered into his profile as "reality manipulation". The reason is that creation can create things that are defined as "objects" and that "life manipulation" cannot provide a "self".

 

[RaveeCPN]

Dude, you don't really understand the words. You need to improve your interpretation. I say that from a chakra he creates 9 beings, and that this "instillation of life" gives them self, will, and spirit.

I already explained the reason for this, the life given merges with Juubi's chakra to form a "soul". This is because Inton, which is said to give the power of creation, can only create physical forms. When this Inton combines with Yoton, which we call COAT as you know, the created bodies can be given life. This is not the creation of a soul, just life manipulation.

Juubi is a willless creature. Also the panel tells us that he created 9 bijuu and adds. "jutsu turns fantasies into reality" this clearly emphasized that bijuus are fantasies. Only from the chakra of the "ten-tailed" obito says that he did it. What do you not understand?

Obito says this because Hagoromo divided an entity like Juubi into 9. Not because the Bijuus are really fantasies. Obito says this because Hagoromo divided an entity like Juubi into 9. But the resulting beings are not much different from Juubi (except that they have a soul and will). Even according to Obito, Juubi is supposed to be more fantasized than other Bijuus... In short, Obito says this because Hagoromo's ability impressed him. Not that Hagoromo can actually make fantasy become reality.

 

[Yaozin]

Obito bunu, Hagoromo'nun Juubi gibi bir varlığı 9'a böldüğü için söylüyor. Bijuu'lar gerçekten fantezi olduğu için değil. Obito bunu söylüyor çünkü Hagoromo, Juubi gibi bir varlığı 9'a böldü. Ancak ortaya çıkan varlıkların Juubi'den pek bir farkı yok (ruhu ve iradesi olması dışında). Hatta Obito'ya göre Juubi'nin diğer Bijuu'lardan daha çok hayal ürünü olması gerekiyor... Kısacası Obito bunu Hagoromo'nun yeteneğinden etkilendiği için söylüyor. Hagoromo'nun fanteziyi gerçeğe dönüştürebileceğinden değil.

obito does not say that he divided the juubi into 9 parts. He says that he created "9 selves" from the chakra of his "ten-tailed". And the reason he turns fantasy into reality is because of the act of "creating bijuu." Clearly clear on this panel. What do you repeat without understanding? if you do so, I will stop the discussion.
Also, how do you reject the phrase "jutsu turns fantasies into reality"? are you kidding?

 

[RaveeCPN]

Hagoromo has managed to create 9 separate human wills from just one energy.

He didn't, he has instilled life into the bodies and caused them to form their selves, souls etc.

That's what the Obiton says in the manga

He says this because the ability is so impressive to him, not because Hagoromo actually does it.

Obito said that in doing so, he used the energy of the ten-tailed and created the bijuu.

Yes, he created their bodies

However, according to Vsb, since it is a greater achievement than "creation" or "life manipulation", it is entered into his profile as "reality manipulation". The reason is that creation can create things that are defined as "objects" and that "life manipulation" cannot provide a "self".

I already said I don't agree with that + his profile doesn't give the reason for the Reality Manipulation so IDK.

 

[RaveeCPN]

obito does not say that he divided the juubi into 9 parts. He says that he created "9 selves" from the chakra of his "ten-tailed".

He doesn't say that he created 9 selves, but we know that they have selves. The scan only says that he created 9 Bijuu from Juubi's chakra.

And the reason he turns fantasy into reality is because of the act of "creating bijuu."

The creation of the Bijuu is something Obito can't imagine, something he can't do. That's why he calls it fantasy turned into reality. There's no other reason.

if you do so, I will stop the discussion.

I don't understand why we are still debating about RW. You were the one who said that the OP was opened only for Subjective Reality. But you are still trying to prove different things.

 

[Yaozin]

Bijuu'nun yaratılması, Obito'nun hayal bile edemeyeceği, yapamayacağı bir şey. Bu yüzden gerçeğe dönüşmüş fantezi diyor. Başka bir sebep yok.

he explains jutsuyu there, but you really don't understand. So I'm stopping arguing with you, man. This discussion is for subjective reality. If you agree with him, there's no point in me arguing with you yet

 

[Yaozin]

Bunu, Hagoromo gerçekten yaptığı için değil, yeteneği onun için çok etkileyici olduğu için söylüyor.

you're based entirely on an assumption. You run away by saying "not for that reason" to a statement that explains jutsuyu and is said openly. You did nonsense.

 

[KingTempest]

I agree with null

Sayijg creation isn’t creation is insane

Y’all are just fluffing up the wording

Should anyone who can create anything get subjective reality because they imagine it before they create it?

 

[Yaozin]

I agree with null

Sayijg creation isn’t creation is insane

Y’all are just fluffing up the wording

Should anyone who can create anything get subjective reality because they imagine it before they create it?

I think you don't look objectively and you don't read it completely. Please look neutral against naruto crts, Mr. tempest. It manages to create 9 beings with self, soul, will and mind from the "chakra" of one willless being. Obiton says jutsu turns fantasy into reality. This statement is quite sufficient for subjective reality. Also, izanagi, which is the subjective reality on the wiki, is "only" a practice of the "coat" ability. This makes the hagoromo's ability more comprehensive than the izanagi. Obito says this. With multiple proofs, this ability is a subjective reality. Again, please be objective.

 

[KingTempest]

You keep fluffing it with “mind, soul, will” as if a mother giving birth would now be subjective reality

It’s just creation of real life

 

[Yaozin]

You keep fluffing it with “mind, soul, will” as if a mother giving birth would now be subjective reality

It’s just creation of real life

we are talking about the fact that it makes up 9 living beings from a single energy. If there is a soul, a will, or a self in these living beings, it is not "creation". "creation" can create things that can be described as objects. You need to know this better than I do. We are also talking about a jutsu, which is said to "turn fantasy into reality." Everything is clear.

 

[Yaozin]

You keep fluffing it with “mind, soul, will” as if a mother giving birth would now be subjective reality

It’s just creation of real life

also bijuus is just one example. Hagoromo has used this technique to create many things, turning fantasy into reality. That's what the manga tells us.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

also bijuus is just one example. Hagoromo has used this technique to create many things, turning fantasy into reality. That's what the manga tells us.

only example of him using it was the separation of the 9

 

[GTsek]

I agree with null

Sayijg creation isn’t creation is insane

Y’all are just fluffing up the wording

Should anyone who can create anything get subjective reality because they imagine it before they create it?

Did you read all the arguments? You might consider that the OP used insufficient arguments, but in the discussions in the comments (mainly mine) more arguments were given to be subjective reality, such as the fact that Izanagi is a practical and inferior application of COAT.

 

[Yaozin]

Did you read all the arguments? You might consider that the OP used insufficient arguments, but in the discussions in the comments (mainly mine) more arguments were given to be subjective reality, such as the fact that Izanagi is a practical and inferior application of COAT.

I made this argument, but no one is being objective.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

O CRT'de paylaştığım panel nedeniyle Hagoromo'nun öznel gerçekliğe sahip olması gerekiyor. Açıklayayım, izanagi jutsu her şeyin yaratılmasının pratik bir kullanımı/uygulamasıdır. Bu yüzden her şeyin yaratılışı izanagiden daha kapsamlıdır. Bu nedenle, izanagi'deki hax'lar, hagoromo'nun kendisi için düşünülmelidir. ayrıca sizlerle paylaştığım panelde görülebilen her şeyin yaratılışı; hayali tasarruf yeteneğine sahiptir.
ayrıca her şeyin yaratılışı izanaginin aksine kalıcı körlük gibi olumsuz bir yan etkisi yoktur.
Bilmeseniz, fanteziyi toplamanın anlamı, oxford dillerine göre imkansız veya varsayım dışı şeyler hayal etme yetisi veya gerçekleştirme olarak bilinir.

Hagoromo'nun verileri her şeyi yaratabileceği belirtilir ve bu yeteneği dokuz ruh ve benliğin yaratılmasıyla desteklenir. Bu dönemde gerçekle çarpışan bir başarıdır. Sübjektif gerçeklik, fanteziyi yönlendirerek desteklenirse başarılı olabilir.

Katılıyorum: Aldatılmış3596, Barbar01, lowlarinkrali, AKUTO123, reio35, karzen, Lewa, raveeCPN, GTsek, ssgengar, TheGod (11)


Katılmıyorum: Damage3245, Nullflowerblush (2)

Tarafsız: LordGriffin1000, KLOL506 (2)

I don't know what it says because it's in Turkish lol

 

[Yaozin]

Türkçe olduğu için ne yazdığını bilmiyorum.

Sorry too, I fixed it

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Sorry too, I fixed it

it's OK

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Hagoromo has to have subjective reality due to panel that i've shared in that CRT. Let me explain, the izanagi justu is a practical usage/application of the creation of all things. That's why, creation of all things is more comprehensive than izanagi. So, the hax's in izanagi must be considered for hagoromo himself. also creation of all things, which is can be seen in the panel that i've shared with you; has the ability of transform fantasy to reality. if you don't know, word meaning of fantasy is known as the faculty or activity of imagining impossible or improbable things according to oxford languages.
besides, the creation of all things does not have any negative side effects when using it contrary to izanagi, such as permanent blindness.

"It is stated in the databook of Hagoromo that he can create everything and this ability is supported by the creation of nine souls,wills and selves. This is clearly a reality warping achievement. Subjective reality can be successful if it is supported by turning fantasy into reality."

Agree: Deceived3596, Barbar01, lowlarinkrali, AKUTO123, reio35, karzen, Lewa, raveeCPN, GTsek, ssgengar, TheGod (11)


Disagree: Damage3245, Nullflowerblush (2)

Neutral: LordGriffin1000, KLOL506 (2)

It seems pretty reasonable, I agree with everything.