Marvel Cosmology - Clean Up and Revision.

[Alonik]

Since Marvel revisions will never go ahead, let's give it a try, anyhow:

For years this Wiki has had a misconception about what the Negative Zone, Sub-Space (Hiperspace) are, let's try to fix that. However, some caveat:

• Subspace and Hyperspace are the same thing - Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z Vol 1 #1 - March, 2008 | Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z Vol 1 #2 - May, 2008
• n-dimensions of the subspace are inaccessible to each other - Quasar Vol 1 #3 - November 01, 1989

Having that sait, it is interesting to note that in the Eternity profile we have justifications of Subspace as High 1-B, and Eternity encompassing it is Low 1-A in it's Seventh Incarnation.

Low Outerverse level (has been shown to)

Howbeit it is addressed as if these planes of existence are cluttered in Marvel's hierarchy, and as if this scales to nothing except to Multiversal Eternity itself, yet this is nothing but the Negative Zone itself. Aside from the fact that this "limitless dimensions" is treated as not being part of the Negative Zone for unknown reasons, besides the "heroes regularly defeat inhabitants of these higher dimensions.", which can only mean regular PIS.

However and first of all, the evidence about the "Junction to Everywhere" being something that exists deep within the Negative Zone:

• The crossroads of infinity, a.k.a the junction to everywhere, is located deep within the dread negative zone - Fantastic Four Vol 1 #319 - October 01, 1988
• Again the junction to everywhere being portrayed inside the Negative Zone - History of the Marvel Universe Vol 2 #3 - September 18, 2019

But I think the most important evidence, is that Marvel doesn't treat any dimensional number beyond or outside the Negative Zone, because the anti-matter "universe" since Kirby and Stan Lee is the very concept of Dimensionality and already has all the justifications for the Infinite Higher Dimensions being part of it, and other comics reference this quite blatantly

• Some theorize it is actually the negative space between all positive matter--and while there are infinite realities and dimensions, there is only one negative zone, spread across among, and between everything else - Fantastic Four Vol 4 #14 - November 20, 2013
• "What if there is only one negative zone interfacing all of creation? The Negative Zone would then be a Negative Space between all positive matter across all positive realities. A bridge to everywhere, if you will... Crontrolling the zone means controlling dimensionality itself! - FF Vol 2 #14 - November 27, 2013

In the most current cosmology we can also consider the Negative Zone to be High 1-B, Ewing quotes directly that the Zone was created by science, ergo the Sixth Cosmo:

• Inventor of science. Builder of the Junction to Everywhere - Ultimates 2 Vol 1 #100 - August 16, 2017
• This is a Multiverse totally devoted to science--where the very concept was born. - Defenders Vol 6 #2 - September 8, 2021

Hickman's Cosmology goes hand in hand with Ewing's ideas, because according to Ewing he doesn't, he contradicts almost nothing in his comics, because he checks everything, as he said in this Interview:

Either continuity makes the story better, or makes the story worse. And if it makes the story worse, even by a fraction of a degree, you really don’t need to bring it up. And sometimes that line can be really hard to see, because there’s an element of the continuity nerd in me, where I’ll do some research to make sure I’m not contradicting anything. There was one thing where I think I wrote that Moondragon had never cried, and I was like, “I better look up all previous instances of this for Moondragon.”... Right, and I guess the equivalent with the galactic map would be to do a big story where all the galaxies mash into one, like in Crisis on Infinite Earths. And that would be terrible! Nobody would want to read that! But in the main, I try to treat everything that’s come before as 100% true. If it was on the page, it happened. Ninety-nine percent of the time I do that.

On the same Interview, a bit farther below:

But the Mystery: I’d already done a bunch of stuff with the Outside, which is Jonathan’s White Space, and just tying all this stuff together. But I had this idea that the mystery was this place you could go into and explore, this sort of creation zone. And I think I kind of implied that it was also the White Hot Room? So that’s a whole thing.

This is just a point of reference, because Hickman's cosmology refers directly to other Authors in the Negative Zone subject, the reasoning remains the same with the realm being where the higher dimensional spaces are:

• the structure of superreality as i (Annihilus) understand it, an infinite stack of existences, at the bottom, the simplest possible spaces. Two-dimensional zones, quantum arenas, acoustical spaces where life exists as music, all the way up to: Universes like mine, and, i think, yours.- Ultimate Fantastic Four Vol 1 #16
  • Hickman quotes directly from this within his comic before Secret Wars:
    • We could conceivably mine the negative zone for decades. And speaking of time, there no reason to belive with his much power we'd be limited to stacked planes of existence... - Avengers Vol 5 #25 - January 22, 2014

As you can see above, in Hickman's vision the Negative Zone is not even limited to stacked planes in the hyperspace that see each other as inacessible, and are already treated as High 1-B in this wiki, but if Advanced Idea Mechanics had more time, they would have even found more about the Negative Zone. That said, the Negative should be treated as:

• At least High 1-B throughout most cosmologies, ranging up to Low 1-Awith the writers that wrote about a set of dimensions above the infinite countable set.
  • Anything like the Superflow, Ultraflow, Far Shore, and etc... Would be At least 1-A, and the ones that transcend the Superflow layers into 1-A.

Btw, there are even more evidence in my sandbox this thread is just a overall TL;DR.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I agree with this, see fine evidence but i not a Tier system staff

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I would've much preferred for this to happen after Low 1-A Thor and 2-C heralds, but, having read your sandbox multiple times, it clearly confirms NZ and Subspace to be High 1-B structures, so i agree

I did want to ask, what will be the rating of The Overspace from this?

 

[Vasco]

I personally don't get the thread.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

I would've much preferred for this to happen after Low 1-A Thor and 2-C heralds, but, having read your sandbox multiple times, it clearly confirms NZ and Subspace to be High 1-B structures, so i agree

I did want to ask, what will be the rating of The Overspace from this?

1A

 

[NHTkenshin2]

So, would it be something like this? (To my current understanding of the cosmology)

1. The Subspace = High 1-B
2. The Negative Zone = High 1-B, up to Low 1-A
3. The Overspace = Low 1-A or 1-A
4. The Multiverse = 1-A
5. The Crossroads = 1 layer into 1-A
6. Unspace/No-Space = 2 layers into 1-A
7. The Macroverse = 3 layers into 1-A
8. Eternity = 4 layers into 1-A

 

[Antvasima]

Given that the Negative Zone is usually treated as an anti-matter twisted funhouse mirror universe to the regular Marvel Universe, I think that The Junction To Everywhere is likely "just" a dimensional nexus that is seemingly "contained" (really just possible to access through) The Negative Zone, in the same manner as the M'kraan Crystal, Captain Britain's old lighthouse, and Swamp Thing's Nexus of Realities function and are accessed by the main Marvel Universe.

Otherwise we would also have to upgrade the regular Marvel Universe, and all universe destroyers or creators within it, to High 1-B or Low 1-A as well, which would completely unreasonably upgrade every single tier 2 Marvel Comics character to that level as well, and as such create a sudden jump from 3-C to High 1-B or Low 1-A, which is not remotely reasonable if you think about just how high a degree of infinity those tiers really encompass.

And in addition, even the absolutely most powerful characters from the Negative Zone (such as Annihilus and Blastaar) have been three-dimensional and possible to defeat by mid-level powerful regular superheroes, so it doesn't make any logical sense that their universe would be High 1-B whereas every single inhabitant in it would just have a very finite scale of power.

That said, The Junction to Everywhere is definitely a part of the Marvel multiverse, and I think that the meeting place for the conceptual aspects of Multi-Eternity is likely located above it, so it would make sense to scale them to a High 1-B or Low 1-A, whereas Multiversal Eternity and characters of a similar scale, such as Mikaboshi, the Beyonders, and the First Firmament, as well as those above (Oblivion, TOAA, etc.) Would keep their 1-A ratings.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Otherwise we would also have to upgrade the regular Marvel Universe, and all universe destroyers or creators within it, to High 1-B or Low 1-A as well, which would completely unreasonably upgrade every single tier 2 Marvel Comics character to that level as well, and as such create a sudden jump from 3-C to High 1-B or Low 1-A, which is not remotely reasonable if you think about just how high a degree of infinity those tiers really encompass.

No, we dont assume universal destruction includes all dimensions of the universe from what i understand, because of different authors interpretations of the universe and stuff

 

[Antvasima]

Given that the Negative Zone is usually treated as an anti-matter twisted funhouse mirror universe to the regular Marvel Universe, I think that The Junction To Everywhere is likely "just" a dimensional nexus that is seemingly "contained" (really just possible to access through) The Negative Zone, in the same manner as the M'kraan Crystal, Captain Britain's old lighthouse, and Swamp Thing's Nexus of Realities function and are accessed by the main Marvel Universe.

Otherwise we would also have to upgrade the regular Marvel Universe, and all universe destroyers or creators within it, to High 1-B or Low 1-A as well, which would completely unreasonably upgrade every single tier 2 Marvel Comics character to that level as well, and as such create a sudden jump from 3-C to High 1-B or Low 1-A, which is not remotely reasonable if you think about just how high a degree of infinity those tiers really encompass.

And in addition, even the absolutely most powerful characters from the Negative Zone (such as Annihilus and Blastaar) have been three-dimensional and possible to defeat by mid-level powerful regular superheroes, so it doesn't make any logical sense that their universe would be High 1-B whereas every single inhabitant in it would just have a very finite scale of power.

That said, The Junction to Everywhere is definitely a part of the Marvel multiverse, and I think that the meeting place for the conceptual aspects of Multi-Eternity is likely located above it, so it would make sense to scale them to a High 1-B or Low 1-A, whereas Multiversal Eternity and characters of a similar scale, such as Mikaboshi, the Beyonders, and the First Firmament, as well as those above (Oblivion, TOAA, etc.) Would keep their 1-A ratings.

@Qawsedf234 @Deagonx @Firestorm808 @LordTracer @Sandman31 @Elizio33 @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Eseseso @AKM sama @Damage3245 @Mr._Bambu @DarkDragonMedeus

I hope that you are willing to back me up here, so all Low 2-C universe-destroying Marvel Comics characters and above are not upgraded to tier High 1-B or Low 1-A.

 

[Antvasima]

No, we dont assume universal destruction includes all dimensions of the universe from what i understand, because of different authors interpretations of the universe and stuff

That would be extremely hard to distinguish, and again, Marvel Comics has always had multiple higher-dimensional nexuses accessible via lower universes, even though those universes do not scale nearly as high on their own.

We would need some very consistent and logically consistent official editorial embracement in order to even consider to upgrade all Low 2-C universal spacetime structures to High 1-B or above, as it doesn't make any logical sense, especially given the that the early 1990s Doctor Strange comic book that we use as our main justification for a Low 1-A multiverse in the first place, mentioned that the regular Marvel universe is only 3-dimensional, if I remember correctly.

Edit: I remembered correctly:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Living_Tribunal#Gallery

 

[Antvasima]

By the way, speaking of The Living Tribunal, his current profile page states that all of the other abstract entities are just a part of him, and that has since been retconned by Al Ewing. Currently, The LT himself is an aspect of multiversal Eternity instead. So what should we do in that regard?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

That would be extremely hard to distinguish, and again, Marvel Comics has always had multiple higher-dimensional nexuses accessible via lower universes, even though those universes do not scale nearly as high on their own.

No really it wouldn't, are you telling me most authors have in mind while writing a universe busting feat that the destruction would include ALL the dimensions of the Universe?

We should logically assume they are referring to a more standard model of a Universe/spacetime unless it is stated that the ENTIRE universe alongside its dimensions is completely destroyed
If not, it would cause nonsensical ratings as you said

By the way, speaking of The Living Tribunal, his current profile page states that all of the other abstract entities are just a part of him, and that has since been retconned by Al Ewing. Currently, The LT himself is an aspect of multiversal Eternity instead. So what should we do in that regard?

This is new tribunal not 7th multiverse tribunal, i believe The Living Tribunal was viewed as the supreme abstract in the 7th multiverse

 

[Antvasima]

Again, our entire scaling mainly depends on those old Doctor Strange scans that firmly established that regular universes are just 3-dimensional, definitely not infinite-dimensional (I would greatly appreciate if you all read them, and try to be reasonable and rational about this, rather than overly upgrade-hungry), and all of my other arguments above still stand.

 

[Eseseso]

@Qawsedf234 @Deagonx @Firestorm808 @LordTracer @Sandman31 @Elizio33 @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Eseseso @AKM sama @Damage3245 @Mr._Bambu @DarkDragonMedeus

I hope that you are willing to back me up here, so all Low 2-C universe-destroying Marvel Comics characters and above are not upgraded to tier High 1-B or Low 1-A.

I agree with you.

This isn't Cthulhu Mythos, we should not have like 50 Low 1-A people.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the support. I appreciate it.

 

[DarlingAurora]

Thank you for the support. I appreciate it.

I agree with you too

 

[Deagonx]

I will caveat that I only have limited knowledge of Marvel.

• Subspace and Hyperspace are the same thing - Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z Vol 1 #1 - March, 2008 | Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z Vol 1 #2 - May, 2008

Can I ask how you drew that conclusion? The scan only mentions hyperspace.

the structure of superreality as i (Annihilus) understand it, an infinite stack of existences, at the bottom, the simplest possible spaces. Two-dimensional zones, quantum arenas, acoustical spaces where life exists as music, all the way up to: Universes like mine, and, i think, yours.- Ultimate Fantastic Four Vol 1 #16

I think this scan seems to suggest that the top of the stack is just regular universes.

At least High 1-B throughout most cosmologies, ranging up to Low 1-Awith the writers that wrote about a set of dimensions above the infinite countable set.

• Anything like the Superflow, Ultraflow, Far Shore, and etc... Would be At least 1-A, and the ones that transcend the Superflow layers into 1-A.

Can you explain why it's High 1-B up to Low 1-A?

 

[Alonik]

Given that the Negative Zone is usually treated as an anti-matter twisted funhouse mirror universe to the regular Marvel Universe, I think that The Junction To Everywhere is likely "just" a dimensional nexus that is seemingly "contained" (really just possible to access through) The Negative Zone, in the same manner as the M'kraan Crystal, Captain Britain's old lighthouse, and Swamp Thing's Nexus of Realities function and are accessed by the main Marvel Universe.

Could you link scans showing that the Negative Zone is usually portrayed as a universe of anti-matter only? Because as I showed in the post, it is portrayed as an Anti-Matter structure, but then containing all of Marvel's dimensionality, or at least that the Junction is a Nexus for the Marvel Multiverse? Because this is totally contradictory to the Lore of the Negative Zone, the Junction to Everywhere is a Junction of all dimensions of the subspace/hyperspace, it has several junctions of dimensional levels in the Negative Zone, like this one:

We must be at the juncture of many dimensions here, one moment we exist in three dimensions-- Then two-- A second from now it could be six!

Here it is literally showing that the higher dimensions are from the Negative Zone nature, and the characters are dimensionally adjusted by the Distortion Area of each dimension, as has been explained in my Sandbox.

Otherwise we would also have to upgrade the regular Marvel Universe, and all universe destroyers or creators within it, to High 1-B or Low 1-A as well, which would completely unreasonably upgrade every single tier 2 Marvel Comics character to that level as well, and as such create a sudden jump from 3-C to High 1-B or Low 1-A, which is not remotely reasonable if you think about just how high a degree of infinity those tiers really encompass.

And in addition, even the absolutely most powerful characters from the Negative Zone (such as Annihilus and Blastaar) have been three-dimensional and possible to defeat by mid-level powerful regular superheroes, so it doesn't make any logical sense that their universe would be High 1-B whereas every single inhabitant in it would just have a very finite scale of power.

Just distinguish in a hard way, it is better to do that than the cosmology never going forward because you don't want to have the headache of the revision o the so many Tier 2 profiles.

That said, The Junction to Everywhere is definitely a part of the Marvel multiverse, and I think that the meeting place for the conceptual aspects of Multi-Eternity is likely located above it, so it would make sense to scale them to a High 1-B or Low 1-A, whereas Multiversal Eternity and characters of a similar scale, such as Mikaboshi, the Beyonders, and the First Firmament, as well as those above (Oblivion, TOAA, etc.) Would keep their 1-A ratings.

Could you show a scan that the Junction is not part of the Negative Zone? Because you have not contradicted the evidence I have shown, including the one that literally says that the Negative Zone is the concept of dimensionality.

 

[Alonik]

By the way, speaking of The Living Tribunal, his current profile page states that all of the other abstract entities are just a part of him, and that has since been retconned by Al Ewing. Currently, The LT himself is an aspect of multiversal Eternity instead. So what should we do in that regard?

It's kind of wrong, because at no point was it ever established that all abstracts are parts of the Living Tribunal, so it was never a retcon per se. If you go in comics like Annihilation, it is said that the Living Tribunal is actually born as a particle within Eternity, and then evolves as Eternity, the Multiverse, grows larger.

 

[Deagonx]

Could you show a scan that the Junction is not part of the Negative Zone? Because you have not contradicted the evidence I have shown, including the one that literally says that the Negative Zone is the concept of dimensionality.

The scan does not say the Negative Zone is the "concept of dimensionality." Please don't insert the word "concept" where it was never said.

More importantly, it sounds like those scans describe the NZ as an access point to all the different realities and dimensions.

 

[Alonik]

Again, our entire scaling mainly depends on those old Doctor Strange scans that firmly established that regular universes are just 3-dimensional, definitely not infinite-dimensional (I would greatly appreciate if you all read them, and try to be reasonable and rational about this, rather than overly upgrade-hungry), and all of my other arguments above still stand.

The scan itself doesn't say that, howeverr the problem here is "Let's split the cosmology as logically and as consistently as possible", but when it comes to doing that, just because Marvel 616 is consistently High 1-B, we have to limit the verse to 3-D because supposedly only one Doctor Strange comic says that the 616 is 3-D (Even if it doesn't say that, since it's just explaining the 3-D dimension spectrum there).

 

[Antvasima]

I don't remotely have the time to search through thousands of comic book stories on top of my massive amounts of works taking care of this community, and am going by memory of most appearances of the Negative Zone, but it makes far better sense to use the conclusion that fits into everything else of Marvel's cosmology, meaning that this is a higher-dimensional nexus that is accessible via regular universes, but not restrained by them, rather than completely mess up our scaling for all of Marvel Comics' cosmology based on a single offhanded mention in a forgotten comic book scan from the early 1990s, that has not remotely been officially endorsed by Marvel's editorial department as a whole. And all of my other above-listed arguments still stand.

As such, I would greatly appreciate if you try to be reasonable here, by reexamining the actual extremely destructive consequences of what you are suggesting here, rather than relentlessly strive for enormously exaggerated and unreliable upgrades at any cost.

 

[Antvasima]

It's kind of wrong, because at no point was it ever established that all abstracts are parts of the Living Tribunal, so it was never a retcon per se. If you go in comics like Annihilation, it is said that the Living Tribunal is actually born as a particle within Eternity, and then evolves as Eternity, the Multiverse, grows larger.

It was established back in the late 1980s Silver Surfer series, in a story featuring the origins of The Stranger, and was later also mentioned in Jonathan Hickman's Time Runs Out storyline.

 

[Alonik]

The scan does not say the Negative Zone is the "concept of dimensionality." Please don't insert the word "concept" where it was never said.

More importantly, it sounds like those scans describe the NZ as an access point to all the different realities and dimensions.

That is what is in the scan.

Crontrolling the zone means controlling dimensionality itself!

 

[Alonik]

I don't remotely have the time to search through thousands of comic book stories on top of my massive amounts of works taking care of this community, and am going by memory of most appearances of the Negative Zone, but it makes far better sense to use the conclusion that fits into everything else of Marvel's cosmology, meaning that this is a higher-dimensional nexus that is accessible via regular universes, but not restrained by them, rather than completely mess up our scaling for all of Marvel Comics' cosmology based on a single offhanded mention in a forgotten comic book scan from the early 1990s, that has not remotely been officially endorsed by Marvel's editorial department as a whole. And all of my other above-listed arguments still stand.

As such, I would greatly appreciate if you try to be reasonable here, by reexamining the actual extremely destructive consequences of what you are suggesting here, rather than relentlessly strive for enormously exaggerated and unreliable upgrades at any cost.

The conclusion that fits into everything else of Marvel's cosmology, is that the junction is part of the Negative Zone, if you have nothing that shows otherwise, that is a massive headcanon.

 

[Deagonx]

That is what is in the scan.

I'm aware. The scan doesn't say "concept."

 

[Alonik]

Can I ask how you drew that conclusion? The scan only mentions hyperspace.

the scan didn't link, i'm sorry.

I think this scan seems to suggest that the top of the stack is just regular universes.

This is Annihilus talking about his previous universe, from which he came before being a resident of the Negative Zone.

Can you explain why it's High 1-B up to Low 1-A?

It's in the scans, it's already accepted as High 1-B, likelyy Low 1-A in the Eternity profile, it's just not recognized as the Negative Zone for some reason.

 

[Alonik]

I'm aware. The scan doesn't say "concept."

But not that "concept" will change anything, since dimensionality speaks for itself

 

[Antvasima]

The scan itself doesn't say that, howeverr the problem here is "Let's split the cosmology as logically and as consistently as possible", but when it comes to doing that, just because Marvel 616 is consistently High 1-B, we have to limit the verse to 3-D because supposedly only one Doctor Strange comic says that the 616 is 3-D (Even if it doesn't say that, since it's just explaining the 3-D dimension spectrum there).

A single regular universe isn't remotely consistently portrayed as infinite-dimensional. You have found a few offhanded mentions throughout 83 years of history and tens of thousands of comic books to support an absolutely outrageous claim just to wantonly maximise the statistics of as many characters as possible to ridiculous degrees without any concerns of the very severe damage that you risk to cause to the reliability of our pages as a whole. We would need an extremely high degrees of official editorial support for such an ridiculously extreme claim to ever be accepted by us.

As such, I am never ever going to let through such a massively unreliable and destructive revision, and you are just systematically severely wasting my work time that I need to use to help out elsewhere.

 

[Antvasima]

The conclusion that fits into everything else of Marvel's cosmology, is that the junction is part of the Negative Zone, if you have nothing that shows otherwise, that is a massive headcanon.

A higher-dimensional nexus can certainly intersect with an explicitly 3-dimensional space, much like you can stick your finger through a flat paper, and this has been a long-running ongoing feature for the regular Marvel universe as well, with everything from the M'kraan Crystal to Swamp Thing's Nexus of All Realities, but that doesn't remotely make them truly contained and confined by such limited dimensions. If they were confined, they wouldn't act as portals to other universes and higher dimensions in the first place.

 

[Deagonx]

It's in the scans, it's already accepted as High 1-B, likelyy Low 1-A in the Eternity profile, it's just not recognized as the Negative Zone for some reason.

I think it probably shouldn't be, but more importantly, do we normally create profiles for locations? If not, who are you suggesting scales to this other that Eternity?

 

[Alonik]

A higher-dimensional nexus can certainly intersect with an explicitly 3-dimensional space, much like your can stick your finger through a flat paper, and this has been a long-running ongoing feature for the regular Marvel universe as well, with everything from the M'kraan Crystal to Swamp Thing's Nexus of All Realities, but that doesn't remotely make them truly contained and confined by such limited dimensions. If they were confined, they wouldn't act as portals to other universes and higher dimensions in the first place.

Except that we are not talking about them, but rather explicit evidence that the Negative Zone has several hyperspace junctions that has several dimensional numbers, and the "junction to everywhere" is just the largest junction in the Negative Zone.

I literally showed you examples that the Negative Zone is not a 3-D universe, but you refuse to accept it. You should contradict this more reasonably, and not just use most of the texts you have used for years without even looking at the evidence.

 

[Antvasima]

the scan didn't link, i'm sorry.

The Marvel handbook is paid by interns that tend to deliberately distort facts, and Tom Brevoort apparently tends to just offhandedly decide statistics based on memory after considering them for a few minutes. As such, we tryq to avoid scaling from the Marvel handbooks.

Also, as far as I understand, from a mathematical viewpoint subspace and hyperspace are very different concepts.

Subspace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hyperspace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's in the scans, it's already accepted as High 1-B, likelyy Low 1-A in the Eternity profile, it's just not recognized as the Negative Zone for some reason.

The nexus itself is accepted to be contained within the entirety of the Marvel multiverse, not single universes, so it is fine to scale from it to the multiversal entities and above, but not to every single universe-buster in existence.

 

[Alonik]

I think it probably shouldn't be, but more importantly, do we normally create profiles for locations? If not, who are you suggesting scales to this other that Eternity?

It is not to create profiles, but to move the revision of cosmology forward, otherwise it will continue threads being locked with the excuse "we need to do a revision", and when revisions based on Impress's proposal come, it is locked with the famous "it is not consistent even though you have shown several authors, this single evidence here shows that it is not consistent"

 

[Deagonx]

Looking at the Marvel fandom page, it does seem to be described as an Anti-Matter universe several times. However, I am not currently able to look at the comic books which say this, though I can do so later to get a more thorough view of what the Negative Zone actually is.

 

[Antvasima]

Except that we are not talking about them, but rather explicit evidence that the Negative Zone has several hyperspace junctions that has several dimensional numbers, and the "junction to everywhere" is just the largest junction in the Negative Zone.

I literally showed you examples that the Negative Zone is not a 3-D universe, but you refuse to accept it. You should contradict this more reasonably, and not just use most of the texts you have used for years without even looking at the evidence.

If it functions exactly like every single other nexus in Marvel's history, then it is a nexus, especially given that it has been firmly established by the most reliable foundation for our Marvel Comics cosmology scaling that regular universes are 3-dimensional.

Also, Annihilus was likely giving an unproven egocentric boast to Doctor Doom. It wouldn't make sense if every single Annihilus that ever appeared in a What If?! story or similar was the exact same character.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

A single regular universe isn't remotely consistently portrayed as infinite-dimensional. You have found a few offhanded mentions throughout 83 years of history and tens of thousands of comic books to support an absolutely outrageous claim just to wantonly maximise the statistics of as many characters as possible to ridiculous degrees without any concerns of the very severe damage that you risk to cause to the reliability of our pages as a whole. We would need an extremely high degrees of official editorial support for such an ridiculously extreme claim to ever be accepted by us.

As such, I am never ever going to let through such a massively unreliable and destructive revision, and you are just systematically severely wasting my work time that I need to use to help out elsewhere.

Again, we dont assume any universe level feat to scale to the entire Universe and its dimensions, from what i understand, the Dark dimension is a part of 616 but we still dont assume any Universe buster to be Low 1-C

Why is this such a big deal?

 

[Deagonx]

I'm going to strongly caveat this by repeating that I don't have the scans for this and will seek them out later, but there's a pretty thorough wikipedia page on the Negative Zone which affirms this.

The Negative Zone in the Marvel Universe is used as a fictional universe parallel to Earth's. While the universes are similar in many respects they are different in that: all matter in the Negative Zone is negatively charged;

The heroes of the Ultimate Marvel universe reasoned that Galactus will starve to death in the Negative Zone because it is a universe made of antimatter and Galactus would not have anything to eat there.

Normally beings enter the Negative Zone through the Distortion Area. This is an invisible sphere of energy that resides in the Negative Zone but is accessible from many parts of Earth. ... This area acts as a buffer between the two polar opposite universes and alters a traveler's own polarity so that they may exist in the other dimension without harm.

 

[Alonik]

The Marvel handbook is paid by interns that tend to deliberately distort facts, and Tom Brevoort apparently tends to just offhandedly decide statistics based on memory after considering them for a few minutes. As such, we tryq to avoid scaling from the Marvel handbooks.

Also, as far as I understand, from a mathematical viewpoint subspace and hyperspace are very different concepts.

Subspace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hyperspace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Reed's scan is literally shows that the Junction to Everywhere, has limitless dimensions in subspace.

The nexus itself is accepted to be contained within the entirety of the Marvel multiverse, not single universes, so it is fine to scale from it to the multiversal entities and above, but not to every single universe-buster in existence.

Just don't scale them to the High 1-B, if a character has destroyed a universe, unless all dimensions are quoted, he has only destroyed the 3-D part of the universe.