Fire Force 3-A Adolla CRT

[Lynieryz]

I agree.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yeah... Not touching this with a 100 foot pole

 

[Alexander]

Yeah... Not touching this with a 100 foot pole

why?also,that sounds like a restriction order

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah... Not touching this with a 100 foot pole

Literally I'm just sitting this one out

 

[PrinceofPein]

Literally I'm just sitting this one out

I would also love to but well, some of us are heroes.

I will get to it by the weekend.

 

[Dalesean027]

I would also love to but well, some of us are heroes.

I will get to it by the weekend.

Yeah nah what you're doing is commendable because **** this is a topic

 

[Alexander]

I would also love to but well, some of us are heroes.

I will get to it by the weekend.

what do you mean?

 

[ObberGobb]

I agree with 3-A

 

[Alexander]

we are winning¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

 

[EndlessCalamity]

During the final arc of Fire Force the dimension of "Adolla" begins merging with the normal world causing the cataclysm. The scale of this event is often thought of as not given by a lot of people but with context from the manga it's clear that Adolla is merging with the universe itself

Specifically Jiovanni(someone who studied adolla and actually made himself closer to it) mentions that in terms of scale the cataclysm is happening to the "Universe"(Chapter 234). This is important because literally goes out of his way to clarify that he means "Universe" and in context he is specifically by his own admission speaking in terms of "Scale".

This on it's own simply means adolla's merger with the "World" is in fact happening to the "Universe" meaning adolla itself is as large as the universe itself. This is also supported by the previous cataclysms attempts having

• Altered the physics of the world(which we now know in context of giovannis statement refers to "Universe")
• Changed the structure of the "World": An effect which altered the world of fire force to such a degree that it changed from full on like IRL/Live action to anime artsyle as whole( something which is clearly universal)

The evangelist would undoubtably scale Adolla itself being 3-A and being capable of affecting a whole universe for the simple reason that The Evangelist is Adolla itself. We get the context for this from 2 through lines:

• Adolla as the Collective Unconsciousness: Adolla is referred to very clearly as the "Collective unconsciousness" and the Evangelist is stated to be "the entire collective unconsciousness" by Sho.
• Adolla as Despair: The "Despair" is said to be what is trying to fuse with the world by sho(meaning it is adolla) and the evangelist's true form is said to be that despair but also when separated from haumea the evangelist is referred to as "All that despair".

It is very much apparent that the Evangelist=Adolla as the Evangelist is adolla itself.

Shinrabansho Man: This part is very simple as it's already accepted(and even already on his profile) that Shinra bansho man destroyed "The Despair" which in the context of the information above is the entirety of adolla itself.

Seems Fine, Agree.
But With that statement it can be Baseline Of L2C.

The Earth Merged with Realm Has Universe Size, and Shinra Oblirate "Despair" In Total Realm.

 

[Null]

Seems fine

 

[Robo432343]

Shinra is outerversal

 

[RoyGundam]

I'm just here to watch staff members rain on yall's parade

On a bit more serious note, in my opinion as a longtime casual member, VSwiki has a problem with VN/LN bias. Somehow I don't doubt that Shinra would have long-since been upgraded to (at least) Universal if the feats in question had merely been described in writing and not also depicted by illustrations.

 

[Alexander]

I'm just here to watch staff members rain on yall's parade

On a bit more serious note, in my opinion as a longtime casual member, VSwiki has a problem with VN/LN bias. Somehow I don't doubt that Shinra would have long-since been upgraded to (at least) Universal if the feats in question had merely been described in writing and not also depicted by illustrations.

were described

 

[Alexander]

by the way, if there is a shinrabanshoman match after this upgrade, call me

 

[samlex]

At that time not enough of the thread has happened
Now I have two more, I ca assure you this is enough for a discussion rule

Why should a rule happen in this situation?

 

[PrinceofPein]

This is going to be one long ass of a post full of blue text, wasted my whole day on it. Yes " I wasted it" that's how I see it, but if I don't do this, this false stuff will go through. Anyway since everyone is full of life, help out here, just help drop the powers n abilities for the characters, don't worry about the characters without pages, I am doing that myself.

I will drop the post soon

 

[PrinceofPein]

Since, I wont be interested in going back and forth with anyone, lets make this short
Tl: Dr
1. The adolla is not AP related at all, maybe range? sure
2. The adolla is simply affecting earth and nothing else
3. Adolla is simply human's despair brought to form
4. Adolla allows for perception of majority of humans to be made into a reality.
5. Adolla is Empathic Manipulation and reality warping

FIRST
I will be addressing the whole "Jiovanni saying the universe" thing.
Like I said that's flowering, let's look at the context closely, From chapter 208. We have Haumea calling an assembly of all the white clads, in which jiovanni is part, Then she explicitly said, "bring fiery doom to this planet", Then she said the great cataclysm as started and there is no stopping it anymore. Then we have the whole yona speech explaining how he built the world for adolla. Then in chapter 234, we have a few of the white goons around still discussing. Literally, before Jiovanni made that statement Sumire and yona explained that great cataclysm simply ends humankind. And since they are the oldest pillars and withnessed the first cataclysm, they are sure as hell more knowledgeable. And also right before jiovanni said that, Haumea said the conclusion is death, in reference to yona's statement and charon's about mankind. Then we have Jiovanni making the statement "Human's heading for death, for destructions........... it is true of this planet, it is true of the universe"
Combining previous contexts, jiovanni words become flowery like I already said, and the way it was said was also flowery. so please stop this entire thing about his words been valid.
Anyway, to finish things, keep reading, you have a long way to go. Argue with scans not me.
And your beloved jiovanni said this about the great cataclysm and not flowery at all

Also he said this "Will turn this planet into a sun"

SECONDLY
Adolla is simply going to affect earth
I mean here are so many statements/showings saying that, and there are more.
1. Fiery doom to this planet

2. This planet will become a world of flames

3. turn this planet into a flaming sun

4. then this planet will become a world of fire

5. Jiovanni said "Will turn this planet into a sun"

6. Now grant this planet salvation

7. What the hell is happening to our planet
e.t.c.

THIRD
The great cataclysm is not adolla merging with the universe or something as that is what the OP implies, The great cataclysm is adolla merging with earth and giving birth to a new sun.
Here are the scans.
1. We will cause a great cataclysm.... turn this planet into a world of flame once more.... That is our mission..... for that purpose alone we

2. Light up the lost souls.... scorch the earth.... turn this planet into a flaming sun

3. Then this world will be a second sun

4. You want to make this planet? A STAR

5. Converting this planet into a sun

6. Too long to type, open it

7. the current sun was from a great cataclysm from the past

8. So we can light up this star (poor charon)
e.t.c.


FOURTH
Adolla and perception shenanigan, and despair. The entire adolla is simply the end of humans, as all things come to an end and that is what despair is
1. Send mankind back to the flame all in accordance with the evangelist will

2. we will turn all humans beings to flame and cover the earth in the great flame of fire

3. They wish for death
Three separate scans in that one

4. Extinction of mankind

5. consumed the land in which humanity lived

6. The world of perception and reality has become one and about half the planet is in flames

7. Everything in this world from humans all the way to the stars heads toward destrution the second they come to being

8. The human world is on its way to destruction

9. Too long to type

10. Too long to type

11. Amidst all those stars and planet, I saw the danger ours was facing

12. The human race is done for

13. Our world will unite with adolla and the planet will be burn to cinders

14. Hibana is cute and smart

15. Our world will be destroyed

16. Too long to type

17. Planet's subconscious

18. Humanity desires its own extermination and adolla is bring it to pass
e.t.c.


FIFTH
The great cataclysm completion is not anyway affecting the universe as thats what the OP entails, but rather earth alone.

1. Great cataclysm completion, and simply planet of flames

2. The birth of second sun

3. The great cataclysm now completed

4. The great cataclysm completion again

5. And the planet of water became the star.

6. The earth has become the sun

7. Only ones left on earth

8. Second sun

9. To the planet of black despair

10. Look at this planet
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0296-009.png

11. With the completion of the great cataclysm, this planet was made into a sun.
e.t.c.

SIXTH
If this goes through, everyone's mother becomes 3-A, so many anti-feat.



SUMMARY
With the context provided and the fact that jiovanni referred to great cataclysm when he made that statement you are trying to use to upgrade them. He meant humanity and this becomes flowery.
Believe me the verse/adolla is consistently tier 5, and adolla is not AP related at all.
Like not even one showing of adolla can be equated to AP.
Now way in over 50 statements vs one misguided statement from a creep that you took well out of contexts. And I cannot stress this enough "Argue with the scans and not me"

I will address this quickly, but I should mention that as adolla gets closer the surroundings changed based on majority(not all) humans perception of the surrounding.
The moon changed shape after majority of the humans saw Benimaru's moon, which is Benimaru that the moon is better than the sun and the moon should be smiling.
And that changed the perspective of the people to a smiling moon which in turn changed the actual moon into a smiling one.
For the little stars, during arthur and dragon fight it was noted that the earth was surrounded by "a sea of twinkling stars". Which will be what the majority of humans think surrounds earth, meaning those are not real stars to begin with just something small that is shining that they think surrounds earth. Stars been that small and that close to earth will mean that "The majority thinks stars are that small and that close to earth" to begin with

While at this, no mathematics manipulation for anyone in the verse, just extraordinary genius

 

[Cyberblader90]

this is fine and all and true, but we do see the merge affect space

rock like mini stars are present all throughout near and past the moon, which also was warped. Giovanni's comment on the cosmos being affected is supported by the fact characters see that and make note of that stars have changed shape in space, which btw they also appear as in space when dragon and arthur are fighting.

Dragon makes note their fight will affect he "fate of the stars" as well.

There's also the editor's note about the milky way, but isn't as solid as the above

Not sure what you mean by anti-feats, only 2 characters would scale to the entirety of adolla, that being shinrabanshoman and the evangelist at its peak

also I agree its reality warping but it is worth noting arthur proves being sufficiently linked to adolla allows one to turn it into raw ap. The two characters i mentioned above are far more linked to it

 

[PrinceofPein]

this is fine and all and true, but we do see the merge affect space

Not really

rock like mini stars are present all throughout near and past the moon, which also was warped. Giovanni's comment on the cosmos being affected is supported by the fact characters see that and make note of that stars have changed shape in space, which btw they also appear as in space when dragon and arthur are fighting.

I will address this quickly, but I should mention that as adolla gets closer the surroundings changed based on majority(not all) humans perception of the surrounding.
The moon changed shape after majority of the humans saw Benimaru's moon, which is Benimaru that the moon is better than the sun and the moon should be smiling.
And that changed the perspective of the people to a smiling moon which in turn changed the actual moon into a smiling one.
For the little stars, during arthur and dragon fight it was noted that the earth was surrounded by "a sea of twinkling stars". Which will be what the majority of humans think surrounds earth, meaning those are not real stars to begin with just something small that is shining that they think surrounds earth. Stars been that small and that close to earth will mean that "The majority thinks stars are that small and that close to earth" to begin with

Dragon makes note their fight will affect he "fate of the stars" as well.

That is flowery. It is a motivation speech

There's also the editor's note about the milky way, but isn't as solid as the above

We don't use them, there are plenty of those about planet too

Not sure what you mean by anti-feats, only 2 characters would scale to the entirety of adolla, that being shinrabanshoman and the evangelist at its peak

It is tier 3. Took merging of 3 souls to make SBM, aside that
Sho scales to Haumea who could use adolla in full at that point, attacking with 3-A energy without holding back is 3-A.
Benimaru would scale above sho,
Dragon will scale
Yona will scale
Arthur will scale
Shinra will scale meaning Kurono will scale
the scaling continues.

also I agree its reality warping but it is worth noting arthur proves being sufficiently linked to adolla allows one to turn it into raw ap. The two characters i mentioned above are far more linked to it

it is not a 1:1 scenario. adolla grants abilities also it is simply the collection that all mankind wants extinction

Also there was another mention of the universe statement by Sumire, but it was also not really relevant and a generic statement.
So at most there is no solid statement of universal adolla, and a showing of stars been affected that I interpreted, and close to a hundred statement/showings about it been just the planet.

So we would go with the consistent end, even if the universal statements were valid to begin with which they are not.

 

[Cyberblader90]

haumea doesnt fully scale till she merges with the evangelist, after shinrabansoman is born

why are we assuming soul fusion is linear?

i don t agree with your star point

we see them in space, outside of character perspective as having been changed in shape, and we see adolla even create small stone stars well past earth

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

FIRST
I will be addressing the whole "Jiovanni saying the universe" thing.
Like I said that's flowering, let's look at the context closely, From chapter 208. We have Haumea calling an assembly of all the white clads, in which jiovanni is part, Then she explicitly said, "bring fiery doom to this planet", Then she said the great cataclysm as started and there is no stopping it anymore. Then we have the whole yona speech explaining how he built the world for adolla. Then in chapter 234, we have a few of the white goons around still discussing. Literally, before Jiovanni made that statement Sumire and yona explained that great cataclysm simply ends humankind. And since they are the oldest pillars and withnessed the first cataclysm, they are sure as hell more knowledgeable. And also right before jiovanni said that, Haumea said the conclusion is death, in reference to yona's statement and charon's about mankind. Then we have Jiovanni making the statement "Human's heading for death, for destructions........... it is true of this planet, it is true of the universe"
Combining previous contexts, jiovanni words become flowery like I already said, and the way it was said was also flowery. so please stop this entire thing about his words been valid.
Anyway, to finish things, keep reading, you have a long way to go. Argue with scans not me.
And your beloved jiovanni said this about the great cataclysm and not flowery at all

Also he said this "Will turn this planet into a sun"

Aight let start from her. Just because she says it will bring fiery death to the planet(which it does) is in no way saying "It will only do that) which is extremely clear to see by anyone in the fact that we literally see it do more than that in warping the moon and also the stars, at no point does she say it will only do that or that it won't do anything else. This is all compounded with the fact that we have directly gotten statements from prior cataclysms to back this and know that the reach of a cataclysm even doesn't just extend to earth as it quite literally created the sun itself.
Non of this would happen or be possible if the effect of the cataclysm were limited to earth and again simply saying that it will do X doesn't mean it won't do Y especially since we have on screen and through statements know that it has done Y before(X being it affecting earth and Y being it also affecting beyond earth.

Most of if not all that you have said in this section is reliant on the logic that "Since they say it does X it means it can't do Y" when we have statements and also direct feats of it doing such. Unless they actually say specifically that it can't affect anything beyond earth then non of these are actual arguments against my point.

I'm also rather grateful that your are using translation from "official-complete-1.granpulse.us" because those same translations actually have Giovanni's statement Translated as the following(I'll also post the full image as well as link it here so it can't be missed):

Before this sumier denotes that what they mean by "destroy" is merge with "adolla" which itself would be considered literal and shows that what they are talking about by destroy they just means the event of adolla merging with the world. The rest of this statement is made even more unambiguous than the prior scan that both of use were using and quite clearly speaks to my earlier point of it not being flowery language by sheer translation alone.

You've failed to provide as single statement from either of these characters that actually specifically says "Adolla is only Going to affect earth" and only provided statements that say "Adolla affects earth" which in no way actually refute my points

Adolla is simply going to affect earth
I mean here are so many statements/showings saying that, and there are more.
1. Fiery doom to this planet

2. This planet will become a world of flames

3. turn this planet into a flaming sun

4. then this planet will become a world of fire

5. Jiovanni said "Will turn this planet into a sun"

6. Now grant this planet salvation

7. What the hell is happening to our planet

This is again simply not actually presenting statements that refute my point that it will and has affected things beyond earth. Just saying it will affect earth is no indication that it won't affect anything beyond and again we have direct on page showings of it affecting things beyond earth and also another statement of it doing so in a previous cataclysm:

The simple fact that non of these statements actually say it will Only affect earth or that it won't affect anything beyond earth is pretty telling in that there are on such like that. My direct proof that it will and does affect things beyond earth is pretty blatant on screen panels:

• that in warping the moon
• also Warps the stars

All these statements do is say that it will affect earth/ engulf earth in fire not that it will only do that and the counter proof is in the fact that we have in fact seen it do other things beyond the scope of just engulfing earth in flames multiple times

THIRD
The great cataclysm is not adolla merging with the universe or something as that is what the OP implies, The great cataclysm is adolla merging with earth and giving birth to a new sun.
Here are the scans.
1. We will cause a great cataclysm.... turn this planet into a world of flame once more.... That is our mission..... for that purpose alone we

2. Light up the lost souls.... scorch the earth.... turn this planet into a flaming sun

3. Then this world will be a second sun

4. You want to make this planet? A STAR

5. Converting this planet into a sun

6. Too long to type, open it

7. the current sun was from a great cataclysm from the past

8. So we can light up this star (poor charon)
e.t.c.

Again you're doing the exact same thing in that you assume that because it affects earth or is said to affect earth that it will only do that when we have direct showings of otherwise.

The killing thread in near all of your scans that solidifies this is that they all specify the whole "Engulf the Planet in flames/ convert the planet to a sun". The current sun being made by a cataclysm works directly against your point as it shows adolla affects things beyond just the earth.

Your reasoning for most of this is that "It says it will do X so only X will happen" but the fact that it specifically says the whole engulf earth in flames but we know and have seen much more than that happens is proof enough that your logic is just a false dilemma fallacy: a logical fallacy, which occurs when a limited number of options are incorrectly presented as being mutually exclusive to one another(particularly this part) or as being the only options that exist, in a situation where that isn't the case.

You are presenting the information as if the fact that it will engulf the earth in flames ins mutually exclusive to the fact that it will do anything else when we know for a fact that it does infact do other stuff not mentioned in any of these statements AKA Change the moon- By your logic this alone would not be possible due to your assumption that them saying it will effect the earth means it will only do that

Up till now your entire argument and everything you have presented has been a false dilemma fallacy when we know for a fact that it affecting the earth or engulfing it in flame is not mutually exclusive to any of the other proposed and shown effect it has displayed.

FOURTH
Adolla and perception shenanigan, and despair. The entire adolla is simply the end of humans, as all things come to an end and that is what despair is
1. Send mankind back to the flame all in accordance with the evangelist will

2. we will turn all humans beings to flame and cover the earth in the great flame of fire

3. They wish for death
Three separate scans in that one

4. Extinction of mankind

5. consumed the land in which humanity lived

6. The world of perception and reality has become one and about half the planet is in flames

7. Everything in this world from humans all the way to the stars heads toward destrution the second they come to being

8. The human world is on its way to destruction

9. Too long to type

10. Too long to type

11. Amidst all those stars and planet, I saw the danger ours was facing

12. The human race is done for

13. Our world will unite with adolla and the planet will be burn to cinders

14. Hibana is cute and smart

15. Our world will be destroyed

16. Too long to type

17. Planet's subconscious

18. Humanity desires its own extermination and adolla is bring it to pass
e.t.c.

If you're trying to imply and continue your argument that "Adolla only alters perception and not the world" with this one then its provable false. So I'll address that first:

Adolla only "changes the people perception about their surrounding, not the surrounding it self": False we get 3 full statements that the alterations are caused by adolla being drawn closer and another that these changes are caused by the cataclysm which we already know from express statement that the cataclysms is the process of adolla merging with the real world. I am still unable to understand how you would come to this conclusion after reading this series especially since "Perception altering adolla" not the opposite is baked into a core aspect of the series in the form of Doppelgangers which are the peoples perceptions of an individual given form by a process we are literally shown to be having that perception go to adolla and manifested(clearly showing that perception influences adolla not the other way around). An even bigger hole in this ship made of swiss cheese of an argument is that Cataclysms have been happening since before there was even sentient life on the planet which we know from an extremely direct statements of a prior cataclysm creating the sun(essentially a cataclysm which directly changes the "surroundings" happening before anyone was around to supposedly have their perception altered instead).


But also this again is just a false dilemma fallacy. None of this happening is mutually exclusive to any of the other effects I have outlined or which has been shown through scans

FIFTH
The great cataclysm completion is not anyway affecting the universe as thats what the OP entails, but rather earth alone.

1. Great cataclysm completion, and simply planet of flames

2. The birth of second sun

3. The great cataclysm now completed

4. The great cataclysm completion again

5. And the planet of water became the star.

6. The earth has become the sun

7. Only ones left on earth

8. Second sun

9. To the planet of black despair

10. Look at this planet
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0296-009.png

11. With the completion of the great cataclysm, this planet was made into a sun.
e.t.c.

Again false dilemma fallacy(that seems to be running theme).

We have already seen during the cataclysm preliminary that adolla

• that in warping the moon
• also Warps the stars

None of which would be possible if any of these statements actually meant that it was mutually exclusive to anything else that happens

Summary:
The vast majority of the arguments in your post are reliant on a false Dilemma fallacy which is trying to imply that adolla/the cataclysm being said to do one thing is mutually exclusive to it doing any other thing but we have literally seen it do other things directly on screen. These same statements have 2 components when applying your logic to them both of which are provably false by the same scans

• Adolla being said to affect the earth means it only affects earth
• Adolla being said to engulf the world in flames means it only engulfs the world in flames

These are both provably false by the fact that we

• See adolla on panel affect thing beyond just earth and See adolla do more than and are told it does more than just engulf the earth in flames: via 3 full statements that the alterations are caused by adolla being drawn closer and another that these changes are caused by the cataclysm in relation to the effect on the moon which we already know from express statement that the cataclysms is the process of adolla merging with the real world(with these effects being other things than just engulfing earth in flames), directly get a statement and shown feat of it affecting stars beyond earth and earths moon and finally the fact that we are told directly that a prior cataclysm creating the sun.
• Your argument is one that relies on these statements which say that adolla will effect earth/engulfing are mutually exclusive to any of the stuff I have proposed but that is simply not the case as we see all this other stuff directly happen. You need actual statements outlining in exact specificity that adolla only and will only every "A) Only affect the earth" and "B) Only engulf it in flames" but clearly these do not exist and even if they did are clearly not the case
• A statement saying a character can or will be able to do something is not the same as saying they can or will be able to only do that thing.

The sheer lack of any actually statements denoting that adolla specifically will "Only affect earth" being shown even once in this is a very very clear indicator that these types of statements don't exist and as such the rest of all you have are just false dilemma fallacies that is trying to make adolla being said to affecting earth and engulf it in flames a mutually exclusive event to affecting anything else, couple this with the fact that the actual scan site you use(I assume you think they are reliable or at least more reliable than what we had originally used) straight up translate the Giovanni statement is a much clearer way with literally no room for flowery language.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The sheer lack of any actually statements denoting that adolla specifically will "Only affect earth" being shown even once

Yeah what??
I'm done here
I will let the staffs decide
Not interested in needless back and forth.

Repeating the same 3 scans over and over again in your posts
Is pointless when I explained them.
Bro said others were affected, you clearly did not read my posts and that is pissing me off. Like tf??
Literally shown that it was only earth that was affected, but here you are with head Canons.
Stated more than 50 times to affect earth and shown to affect earth and earth only.
But somehow you missed that.

Well time to call staffs

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Yeah what??
I'm done here
I will let the staffs decide
Not interested in needless back and forth.
I do feel like you have trouble reading

Your entire argument is a false dilemma fallacy: a logical fallacy, which occurs when a limited number of options are incorrectly presented as being mutually exclusive to one another

Adolla/the cataclysm being said to alter the earth and engulf it in flames is in no way mutually exclusive to it affecting the universe beyond earth. The supposed exclusivity of one to the other that you try to present doesn't exist as both can be the case at the same time. What is hard to understand by that???

Every single one of the statements you have provided simply say that adolla/the cataclysm will "affect the earth" and "engulf it in flames" not that it will specifically "Only" do these things and nothing else which is extremely apparent since we directly see it do more than what was said in clear undeniable events when Adolla/the cataclysm warps the Moon and warps the stars both of which are clear direct on screen showings that would not have happened or be possible if these statements were meant to imply that adolla was exclusively going to do those things alone rather than those things just being the focal point of the events to the characters at hand.

Bro said others were affected, you clearly did not read my ******* posts and that is pissing me off. Like tf??
Literally shown that it was only earth that was affected, but Here you are with misguided head Canons.

Bro where is the head canon when we directly see

• that in warping the moon
• also Warps the stars

My argument is that it has effects beyond what are specifically outlined by those statements which... It literally does and is directly shown to do

Stated more than 50 times to affect earth and shown to affect earth a d earth only.

Where the Only... are you not reading what I'm saying??? bruh it says it will do X but not that it will only do X and this is solidified by it literally doing more than X on screen...

 

[Iiliminal]

K.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

K.

 

[KingTempest]

this is fine and all and true, but we do see the merge affect space

rock like mini stars are present all throughout near and past the moon, which also was warped. Giovanni's comment on the cosmos being affected is supported by the fact characters see that and make note of that stars have changed shape in space, which btw they also appear as in space when dragon and arthur are fighting.

Dragon makes note their fight will affect he "fate of the stars" as well.

There's also the editor's note about the milky way, but isn't as solid as the above

Not sure what you mean by anti-feats, only 2 characters would scale to the entirety of adolla, that being shinrabanshoman and the evangelist at its peak

also I agree its reality warping but it is worth noting arthur proves being sufficiently linked to adolla allows one to turn it into raw ap. The two characters i mentioned above are far more linked to it

Pretty much this for me tbh, Cyber nd Pain share my opinion, if not most of them

 

[LordGriffin1000]

After reading the OP and Pain's long counter-post, I'm going to half to disagree with the upgrade. Reality Warping seems fine but the Great Cataclysm seems to just be Earth turning into a sun, not the end of the entire universe. I think the character was just making a comparison that the the world will end just like the universe because eventually everything dies as in one of the scans Pain posted, the character states that everything in this world from the humans to the stars heads towards destruction once they come into being. So in a way, the character is saying this world will end like the universe, it's just a matter of scale.

This is just my interpretation of what I've read on this thread. I'm not knowledgeable on this verse but overall, I find Pain's points more solid. Right now, my phone is about to die so that's about it for me until tomorrow.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Aight let start from her. Just because she says it will bring fiery death to the planet(which it does) is in no way saying "It will only do that) which is extremely clear to see by anyone in the fact that we literally see it do more than that in warping the moon and also the stars, at no point does she say it will only do that or that it won't do anything else. This is all compounded with the fact that we have directly gotten statements from prior cataclysms to back this and know that the reach of a cataclysm even doesn't just extend to earth as it quite literally created the sun itself.
Non of this would happen or be possible if the effect of the cataclysm were limited to earth and again simply saying that it will do X doesn't mean it won't do Y especially since we have on screen and through statements know that it has done Y before(X being it affecting earth and Y being it also affecting beyond earth.

Most of if not all that you have said in this section is reliant on the logic that "Since they say it does X it means it can't do Y" when we have statements and also direct feats of it doing such. Unless they actually say specifically that it can't affect anything beyond earth then non of these are actual arguments against my point.

I'm also rather grateful that your are using translation from "official-complete-1.granpulse.us" because those same translations actually have Giovanni's statement Translated as the following(I'll also post the full image as well as link it here so it can't be missed):

Before this sumier denotes that what they mean by "destroy" is merge with "adolla" which itself would be considered literal and shows that what they are talking about by destroy they just means the event of adolla merging with the world. The rest of this statement is made even more unambiguous than the prior scan that both of use were using and quite clearly speaks to my earlier point of it not being flowery language by sheer translation alone.

You've failed to provide as single statement from either of these characters that actually specifically says "Adolla is only Going to affect earth" and only provided statements that say "Adolla affects earth" which in no way actually refute my points


This is again simply not actually presenting statements that refute my point that it will and has affected things beyond earth. Just saying it will affect earth is no indication that it won't affect anything beyond and again we have direct on page showings of it affecting things beyond earth and also another statement of it doing so in a previous cataclysm:

The simple fact that non of these statements actually say it will Only affect earth or that it won't affect anything beyond earth is pretty telling in that there are on such like that. My direct proof that it will and does affect things beyond earth is pretty blatant on screen panels:

• that in warping the moon
• also Warps the stars

All these statements do is say that it will affect earth/ engulf earth in fire not that it will only do that and the counter proof is in the fact that we have in fact seen it do other things beyond the scope of just engulfing earth in flames multiple times


Again you're doing the exact same thing in that you assume that because it affects earth or is said to affect earth that it will only do that when we have direct showings of otherwise.

The killing thread in near all of your scans that solidifies this is that they all specify the whole "Engulf the Planet in flames/ convert the planet to a sun". The current sun being made by a cataclysm works directly against your point as it shows adolla affects things beyond just the earth.

Your reasoning for most of this is that "It says it will do X so only X will happen" but the fact that it specifically says the whole engulf earth in flames but we know and have seen much more than that happens is proof enough that your logic is just a false dilemma fallacy: a logical fallacy, which occurs when a limited number of options are incorrectly presented as being mutually exclusive to one another(particularly this part) or as being the only options that exist, in a situation where that isn't the case.

You are presenting the information as if the fact that it will engulf the earth in flames ins mutually exclusive to the fact that it will do anything else when we know for a fact that it does infact do other stuff not mentioned in any of these statements AKA Change the moon- By your logic this alone would not be possible due to your assumption that them saying it will effect the earth means it will only do that

Up till now your entire argument and everything you have presented has been a false dilemma fallacy when we know for a fact that it affecting the earth or engulfing it in flame is not mutually exclusive to any of the other proposed and shown effect it has displayed.


If you're trying to imply and continue your argument that "Adolla only alters perception and not the world" with this one then its provable false. So I'll address that first:

Adolla only "changes the people perception about their surrounding, not the surrounding it self": False we get 3 full statements that the alterations are caused by adolla being drawn closer and another that these changes are caused by the cataclysm which we already know from express statement that the cataclysms is the process of adolla merging with the real world. I am still unable to understand how you would come to this conclusion after reading this series especially since "Perception altering adolla" not the opposite is baked into a core aspect of the series in the form of Doppelgangers which are the peoples perceptions of an individual given form by a process we are literally shown to be having that perception go to adolla and manifested(clearly showing that perception influences adolla not the other way around). An even bigger hole in this ship made of swiss cheese of an argument is that Cataclysms have been happening since before there was even sentient life on the planet which we know from an extremely direct statements of a prior cataclysm creating the sun(essentially a cataclysm which directly changes the "surroundings" happening before anyone was around to supposedly have their perception altered instead).


But also this again is just a false dilemma fallacy. None of this happening is mutually exclusive to any of the other effects I have outlined or which has been shown through scans

Again false dilemma fallacy(that seems to be running theme).

We have already seen during the cataclysm preliminary that adolla

• that in warping the moon
• also Warps the stars

None of which would be possible if any of these statements actually meant that it was mutually exclusive to anything else that happens

Summary:
The vast majority of the arguments in your post are reliant on a false Dilemma fallacy which is trying to imply that adolla/the cataclysm being said to do one thing is mutually exclusive to it doing any other thing but we have literally seen it do other things directly on screen. These same statements have 2 components when applying your logic to them both of which are provably false by the same scans

• Adolla being said to affect the earth means it only affects earth
• Adolla being said to engulf the world in flames means it only engulfs the world in flames

These are both provably false by the fact that we

• See adolla on panel affect thing beyond just earth and See adolla do more than and are told it does more than just engulf the earth in flames: via 3 full statements that the alterations are caused by adolla being drawn closer and another that these changes are caused by the cataclysm in relation to the effect on the moon which we already know from express statement that the cataclysms is the process of adolla merging with the real world(with these effects being other things than just engulfing earth in flames), directly get a statement and shown feat of it affecting stars beyond earth and earths moon and finally the fact that we are told directly that a prior cataclysm creating the sun.
• Your argument is one that relies on these statements which say that adolla will effect earth/engulfing are mutually exclusive to any of the stuff I have proposed but that is simply not the case as we see all this other stuff directly happen. You need actual statements outlining in exact specificity that adolla only and will only every "A) Only affect the earth" and "B) Only engulf it in flames" but clearly these do not exist and even if they did are clearly not the case
• A statement saying a character can or will be able to do something is not the same as saying they can or will be able to only do that thing.

The sheer lack of any actually statements denoting that adolla specifically will "Only affect earth" being shown even once in this is a very very clear indicator that these types of statements don't exist and as such the rest of all you have are just false dilemma fallacies that is trying to make adolla being said to affecting earth and engulf it in flames a mutually exclusive event to affecting anything else, couple this with the fact that the actual scan site you use(I assume you think they are reliable or at least more reliable than what we had originally used) straight up translate the Giovanni statement is a much clearer way with literally no room for flowery language.

i think this indeed fair regarding the stars

 

[Robo432343]

adolla is outerversal. end of discussion.

 

[Iiliminal]

adolla is outerversal. end of discussion.

holy W

 

[Reiner04]

Agree with low 2c.

Also "The flowery" argument doesn't seems to be flowery to me at all.

 

[Maitreya12]

Ok, let’s break this down and demonstrate why each of these positions don’t hold. water.

Since, I wont be interested in going back and forth with anyone, lets make this short

Tl: Dr
1. The adolla is not AP related at all, maybe range? sure
2. The adolla is simply affecting earth and nothing else
3. Adolla is simply human's despair brought to form
4. Adolla allows for perception of majority of humans to be made into a reality.
5. Adolla is Empathic Manipulation and reality warping

FIRST
I will be addressing the whole "Jiovanni saying the universe" thing.
Like I said that's flowering, let's look at the context closely, From chapter 208. We have Haumea calling an assembly of all the white clads, in which jiovanni is part, Then she explicitly said, "bring fiery doom to this planet",

So, the examples you list leading up to Giovanni’s statement to demonstrate “flowery language” do not actually prove the positions you are trying to. In the slightest I believe, and I’ll show that by listing how each of these examples aren’t flowery language and show why Giovanni’s statement isn’t either. So let’s start with this statement that says there will be fiery doom to the planet.

What’s flowery about her language here? She’s literally right, there’s no flowery language in Haumea’s statement there because she’s talking in the most literal sense. When she says it will “bring fiery doom” she means that literally. So in this instance, this statement is demonstrative that the language they are using is literal, hyper literal in fact because that’s what it is.

Then she said the great cataclysm as started and there is no stopping it anymore. Then we have the whole yona speech explaining how he built the world for adolla. Then in chapter 234, we have a few of the white goons around still discussing. Literally, before Jiovanni made that statement Sumire and yona explained that great cataclysm simply ends humankind. And since they are the oldest pillars and withnessed the first cataclysm, they are sure as hell more knowledgeable.

What does any of this prove? What does any of this demonstrate? How do these statements in any way, shape or form prove Jiovanni’s statement to be flowery? You’re not explaining anything here, you’re simply stating what the words on the panel say and then reach the conclusion that Jiovanni’s statement is flowery. But you have not demonstrated anything here. Nothing here demonstrates Jiovanni’s statement to be flowery so I don’t see why you’re bringing it up.

Like for example, in the statement of the catacsym “ends humankind.” In the link you post nowhere does it say that it just end the earth and only humankind. All they say there is “the final destination for mankind is death.” Which perfectly lined up with Jiovanni’s words as well since he refers to death as the final destination for everything as well.

So I ask again, what do these statements prove and how do they demonstrate Jiovanni’s to be flowery? Because nothing you’ve listed here demonstrates your claim.

And also right before jiovanni said that, Haumea said the conclusion is death, in reference to yona's statement and charon's about mankind. Then we have Jiovanni making the statement "Human's heading for death, for destructions........... it is true of this planet, it is true of the universe"
Combining previous contexts, jiovanni words become flowery like I already said, and the way it was said was also flowery. so please stop this entire thing about his words been valid.

How? Why? Where’s your explanation? You literally and I can’t stress this enough, just put these compilation of links together and then stated your conclusion. You didn’t actually explain how any of these statements prove your positions, you just said your conclusions and left it at that.

You didn’t even list the criteria for what makes a statement flowery and try to prove Jiovanni’s to be such. Again all you did here was simply post scans of what the characters said, and then proceeded to claim Jiovanni’s statement to be flowery without clarifying as such.

So until you can actually, meaningfully demonstrate how exactly this statement is flowery and how exactly those previous statements help prove that positions, the statement shall remain as valid.

And your beloved jiovanni said this about the great cataclysm and not flowery at all

Also he said this "Will turn this planet into a sun"

Again, what is wrong with the statement here? You’re just saying the statement is invalid without bothering to say why that is.

Is there something wrong with Jiovanni saying the planet will turn into a second son? When that’s literally what the entire series presents is going to happen and what actually does happen, further proving Jiovanni is talking literally here as well?

SECONDLY
Adolla is simply going to affect earth
I mean here are so many statements/showings saying that, and there are more.
1. Fiery doom to this planet

2. This planet will become a world of flames

3. turn this planet into a flaming sun

4. then this planet will become a world of fire

5. Jiovanni said "Will turn this planet into a sun"

6. Now grant this planet salvation

7. What the hell is happening to our planet
e.t.c.

Ok….now here’s a very simple question for you…

Where in any of these scans does it say Adolla only affects the earth?

You know, because we literally see on screen Adolla affecting more than just the earth and have been confirmed in the series that Adolla has affected more than the earth. So where are you getting that Adolla only affects the earth? The earth is just the most important part because it holds humanity which is the collective consciousness of Adolla.

THIRD
The great cataclysm is not adolla merging with the universe or something as that is what the OP implies, The great cataclysm is adolla merging with earth and giving birth to a new sun.
Here are the scans.
1. We will cause a great cataclysm.... turn this planet into a world of flame once more.... That is our mission..... for that purpose alone we

2. Light up the lost souls.... scorch the earth.... turn this planet into a flaming sun

3. Then this world will be a second sun

4. You want to make this planet? A STAR

5. Converting this planet into a sun

6. Too long to type, open it

Again I ask where in any of these scans does it say Adolla is only limited to the earth? Just because the earth is the most important part doesn’t mean Adolla is simply affecting the earth and the earth alone. So once again, these scans do not prove the position you are trying to make.

In your 6th scan you see a real life human being talking, right? That’s because that’s how the universe looked like. Like an actual real world, so think of this….the very fact that the universe is in a 2D style instead of a real life 3D style, proves the notion that Adolla is impacting the universe directly. Because we had direct confirmation the universe shifted from looking like real life to looking like an anime due to Adolla.

7. the current sun was from a great cataclysm from the past

8. So we can light up this star (poor charon)
e.t.c.

Ok, so Adolla does indeed affect more than just the earth as your 7nth scan demonstrated.

Because it literally made the sun. Which means by extension, Adolla’s powers is directly impacting the universe, the solar system, etc by literally doing things like creating stars outside of the earth.

FOURTH
Adolla and perception shenanigan, and despair. The entire adolla is simply the end of humans, as all things come to an end and that is what despair is
1. Send mankind back to the flame all in accordance with the evangelist will

2. we will turn all humans beings to flame and cover the earth in the great flame of fire

3. They wish for death
Three separate scans in that one

4. Extinction of mankind

5. consumed the land in which humanity lived

6. The world of perception and reality has become one and about half the planet is in flames

7. Everything in this world from humans all the way to the stars heads toward destrution the second they come to being

8. The human world is on its way to destruction

9. Too long to type

10. Too long to type

11. Amidst all those stars and planet, I saw the danger ours was facing

12. The human race is done for

13. Our world will unite with adolla and the planet will be burn to cinders

14. Hibana is cute and smart

15. Our world will be destroyed

16. Too long to type

17. Planet's subconscious

18. Humanity desires its own extermination and adolla is bring it to pass
e.t.c.

Ok….what does this prove exactly in support for your arguments? Because I don’t see anything of note here to address.

FIFTH
The great cataclysm completion is not anyway affecting the universe as thats what the OP entails, but rather earth alone.

1. Great cataclysm completion, and simply planet of flames

2. The birth of second sun

3. The great cataclysm now completed

4. The great cataclysm completion again

5. And the planet of water became the star.

6. The earth has become the sun

7. Only ones left on earth

8. Second sun

9. To the planet of black despair

10. Look at this planet
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0296-009.png

11. With the completion of the great cataclysm, this planet was made into a sun.
e.t.c.

Dawg, the very fact that the universe is in a anime style at all proves the notion that Adolla impacts the universe. If the universe was 3D and then turned into 2D, the universe was massively impacted by Adolla, it’s just that clear cut.

Not even just that, we actually, physically see the stars in the night sky get shifted into actual star shapes. And it’s directly stated that the battle determines the “fate of the stars” which is a statement by the narrator which again further cements the notion that Adolla is impacting the universe and shifted the stars. It’s actually clear cut stated by the narrator that this happened.

SIXTH
If this goes through, everyone's mother becomes 3-A, so many anti-feat.

There really isn’t. Fire Force has a pretty damn clear cut scaling not gonna lie. The author was I’d say evidently clear about the level these characters are at.

SUMMARY
With the context provided and the fact that jiovanni referred to great cataclysm when he made that statement you are trying to use to upgrade them. He meant humanity and this becomes flowery.
Believe me the verse/adolla is consistently tier 5, and adolla is not AP related at all.
Like not even one showing of adolla can be equated to AP.

No, I will not just believe you nor take your word for it. I do not find your arguments to be convincing or satisfactory for the positions you hold. It’s made abundantly clear within the series itself that Adolla is a very much higher dimensional existence that changes and courses the very fabric of the entire universe consistently so they very much go beyond tier 5.

Now way in over 50 statements vs one misguided statement from a creep that you took well out of contexts. And I cannot stress this enough "Argue with the scans and not me"

literally on panel feats
literally confirmed statements for impacts of the universe.
it could not have been stressed enough that Adolla was the very cause for all the disruption and reality weeping that ever happened in fire force which was quite a lot considering the series’ lore.

I’m sorry but it’s simply your job to argue with the manga here because the manga in all points fully supports the notion that Adolla impacts the universe and not just the earth in every conceivable way.

While at this, no mathematics manipulation for anyone in the verse, just extraordinary genius

This is again you arguing with the manga. How does no one have mathematics manipulation there?

Adolla is literally the concept of mathematics itself, not just that, they also did directly manipulate mathematics into making pi finite. So why doesn’t that classify as manipulation there, these scans you posted don’t prove your positions either because it was made clear that the reason pi wasn’t decided last time was because it was infinite. Pi was then turned finite and then therefore became solvable.

 

[Iiliminal]

all that reading made me dehydrated

 

[RoyGundam]

"This event will affect the planet" is not the same as "this event will only affect the planet" ... That is a terrible argument

I was all hyped up to read an epic takedown and ended up being severely let-down LOL

 

[PrinceofPein]

If the universe was 3D and then turned into 2D,

Believe me you don't know the difference between 2D and 3D, you just think you do.
Length - 1D

• Width - 2D
• Height - 3D

So in the former world, the humans their have no height and were all indivisible flat surfaces?

Cause you probably read a different Manga, all that changed was the way the former humans looked like, their art style.

Also most of your posts up there was nonsense and just you arguing with scans, but let me answer a question You asked

Where in any of these scans does it say Adolla only affects the earth?

where in any of these scans does it say Adolla is only limited to the earth

Again the entire, last chapters showed this. After the vreat cataclysm was complete, only earth was affected, you don't see the stars dying do you?? As we can still see the stars that are supposed to die. If we take jiovanni statements literally.

1. Great cataclysm completion, and simply planet of flames

2. The birth of second sun

3. The great cataclysm now completed

4. The great cataclysm completion again

5. And the planet of water became the star.

6. The earth has become the sun

7. Only ones left on earth

8. Second sun

9. To the planet of black despair

10. Look at this planet
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0296-009.png

11. With the completion of the great cataclysm, this planet was made into a sun.

Literally everything here was earth alone, clearly you didn't read my post.

Another thing thar made me realized you did not open those scans and we read different fire force is this.

Because it literally made the sun. Which means by extension, Adolla’s powers is directly impacting the universe, the solar system, etc by literally doing things like creating stars outside of the earth.

7. the current sun was from a great cataclysm from the past

This literally means, the sun was once a planet that became a burning planet(star) after their cataclysm was completed, but your misguided agendas won't let you see that.
And also you did not read ff, here is the context of that scan up above, the page right before it.
Jiovanni said "this is the second earth"

https://official-complete-1.granpulse.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0246-019.png

Also he explained again that cataclysm is just humans extermination, I should have added this scans to my long post.

And the fact that a completed cataclysm before only turned the first earth into a sun, supports all of my claims

 

[Robo432343]

Pain be spitting fax

 

[RoyGundam]

While at this, no mathematics manipulation for anyone in the verse, just extraordinary genius

There is a contradiction between this and the other claim that "pi was made solvable" ... Pi is solvable IRL and the previous world in Fire Force was supposed to be IRL. However, it is also provably an irrational number. The only possible interpretation of "Pi was made solvable" is that its nature was changed from irrational to rational and that means that a universal constant was changed

 

[Iiliminal]

Pain be spitting fax

the only fax is outerverse level fire force

 

[PrinceofPein]

There is a contradiction between this and the other claim that "pi was made solvable" ... Pi is solvable IRL and the previous world in Fire Force was supposed to be IRL. However, it is also provably an irrational number. The only possible interpretation of "Pi was made solvable" is that its nature was changed from irrational to rational and that means that a universal constant was changed

Well actually, there was a statement after that Pi was made solvable by the evangelist. But I don't know who will be more knowledgeable the first pillar that witnessed the first cataclysm or jiovanni.
She explicitly just explained that the reason Pi can be solved was because the evangelist raised the intelligence level.
While jiovanni said otherwise by saying pi was made solvable.

Also let's not forget that before they found the forest in the desert they all thought Pi was not solvable and infinite. Meaning they did not decode Pi in this life too. Only Vulcan ancestors did