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Also, I know we're not supposed to discuss GT here but someone should REALLY analyze GT Goku's universe-shaking feat.
 
I'll wait for more staff input, to see if anyone disagrees.

Then, we should close this thread and start with the new one for GT scaling.
 
In "Inside Buu", Goku and Vegeta encountered doppelgangers of Gohan, Gotenks, and Piccolo. Considering that Buu absorbed the three, he should and would be able to replicate their power in the form of clones, and the Daizenshuu 7 confirms that the doppelgangers are identical to their originals. As Super Saiyans, Goku could take on Gohan, and Vegeta could take on Gotenks and Piccolo.
I see.

Btw, I still think it's absurd for SSJ2 Goku to scale to Buu since SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta got stomped by Kid Buu
 
He doesn't. Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are both multi-solar system level, but Super Saiyan 3 scales to Buu.

The manga page has the same set-up.
 
Btw, late but I reluctantly agree with OP if only because there are so many statements supporting this.

Also, Goku should have an extra key to show how his SSJ form matched Ultimate Gohan, right?
 
Not even gonna touch Boohan vs Pure Boo, but is Super Vegetto being scaled below Pure Boo? I think Vegetto should scale above him for having numerous guides stating him to be the strongest character in the series.
Agree, plus SSJ Vegito is stated to be >= Baby Saga SSJ4 Goku.

On a related note, since GT Base Goku shook hell in a matter similar to SSJ3 Fusion Reborn Goku, would it be fair to accept the feats as being comparable without needed to make a whole other calc for GT Goku?
 
Not even gonna touch Boohan vs Pure Boo, but is Super Vegetto being scaled below Pure Boo? I think Vegetto should scale above him for having numerous guides stating him to be the strongest character in the series.
Guide statements such as?
Agree, plus SSJ Vegito is stated to be >= Baby Saga SSJ4 Goku.

On a related note, since GT Base Goku shook hell in a matter similar to SSJ3 Fusion Reborn Goku, would it be fair to accept the feats as being comparable without needed to make a whole other calc for GT Goku?
That statement is objectively wrong. GT base Goku already scales above kid buu who base vegito is not stronger than.

Perhaps.
 
On a related note, since GT Base Goku shook hell in a matter similar to SSJ3 Fusion Reborn Goku, would it be fair to accept the feats as being comparable without needed to make a whole other calc for GT Goku?
In Fusion Reborn, Goku shook all the way to the Grand Kai's Planet. In GT, he only shook up to King Yemma's Palace, which is in the center of Other World. The latter feat is smaller in scale. But again, this is not a GT thread. There is also the issue of Other World being mostly empty space.
 
Just to be clear, in the Toei-verse. Vegito is not stronger than Kid Boo. Kinda weird, ngl. Ultimate Gohan and Gotenks were always a bit of a jobber, in my eyes, so I can agree Goku and Vegeta being stronger than them due to the whole thing with the clones inside Buu. Anyhow, I always thought Kid Buu was the strongest Buu, even before I came across VSBW, so count me in the folks that agree to it
 
Guide statements such as?
Such as:
Son Goku Densetsu
E3EidPZXwAAKZt4

Herms: It says at the end that Vegetto has probably the strongest power of any DBZ character
Kyogan Battle Collection 02
unknown.png

Screenshot_685.png

Dragon Book
unknown.png

Note that this section in the Dbook takes place after the Pure Boo sections, and is basically just covering the series overall.
Movie 12 Animanga
image0.png

Goku and Vegeta have been combined by Potara to create the strongest warrior in history, Vegetto! He's got a lot of power, and he's unbeatable!
Daizenshuu 7
unknown.png

Note that this Daizenshuu covers both anime and manga, and it's in the section for covering abilities, which isn't covering things in chronological order.
There are also like, 5 more statements for him being the strongest in the Universe, but this are the most blatant.
 
And it seems like they're referring to Vegito in base alone being the ultimate fighter of DBZ so IMO Base Vegito should scale above Kid buu.
 
And it seems like they're referring to Vegito in base alone being the ultimate fighter of DBZ so IMO Base Vegito should scale above Kid buu.
Base Vegetto is kinda weird. Some sources treat him as equal to Boohan, some treat him as significantly above, some treat him as slightly above. However, I will admit that the Dragon Book is likely in reference to Base Vegetto, as the image of him is right under the caption, and that same guide treats Base Vegetto as above Boohan.
 
Base Vegetto is kinda weird. Some sources treat him as equal to Boohan, some treat him as significantly above, some treat him as slightly above. However, I will admit that the Dragon Book is likely in reference to Base Vegetto, as the image of him is right under the caption, and that same guide treats Base Vegetto as above Boohan.
well the sources say that once goku and vegeta merge they become the ultimate power, implying that even base vegito is the "ultimate" power they're talking about
 
It doesn't really matter whether or not base Vegito (even though the guides don't even specify base) is the strongest in the universe. He powered up more to stop Buuhan's attack, despite already having the advantage over Buuhan by a very noticeable margin.

He's not in the equation when it comes to scaling, whether it's above or below Kid Buu in base.
 
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Such as:
Son Goku Densetsu
E3EidPZXwAAKZt4


Kyogan Battle Collection 02
unknown.png

Screenshot_685.png

Dragon Book
unknown.png

Note that this section in the Dbook takes place after the Pure Boo sections, and is basically just covering the series overall.
Movie 12 Animanga
image0.png


Daizenshuu 7
unknown.png

Note that this Daizenshuu covers both anime and manga, and it's in the section for covering abilities, which isn't covering things in chronological order.
There are also like, 5 more statements for him being the strongest in the Universe, but this are the most blatant.
Alright sure, makes sense. He can scale to kid buu's value.
 
Son Goku Densetsu
E3EidPZXwAAKZt4


Kyogan Battle Collection 02
unknown.png

Screenshot_685.png

Dragon Book
unknown.png

Note that this section in the Dbook takes place after the Pure Boo sections, and is basically just covering the series overall.
Movie 12 Animanga
image0.png


Daizenshuu 7
unknown.png

Note that this Daizenshuu covers both anime and manga, and it's in the section for covering abilities, which isn't covering things in chronological order.
The Movie 12 snippet is both invalid for scaling and is untranslated.
The Daizenshuu statement appears hyperbolic.
Everything else is valid, though.
 
The Movie 12 snippet is both invalid for scaling and is untranslated.
What do you mean? I have the translation right under it. If you can't see it for some reason, it says:
Goku and Vegeta have been combined by Potara to create the strongest warrior in history, Vegetto! He's got a lot of power, and he's unbeatable!
Could you also clarify why it's invalid for scaling? It's not like it's about the M12 continuity, it's just a part of the M12 Animanga that covers anime events.
The Daizenshuu statement appears hyperbolic.
I think it's possibly the most literal one if anything. It's using Vegetto being strongest and best ki user to explain why he's able to use the barrier, it being exaggerated/false would be counter-intuitive to making an easy to understand example for the reader.
Everything else is valid, though.
👌Bet
 
Such as:
Son Goku Densetsu
E3EidPZXwAAKZt4


Kyogan Battle Collection 02
unknown.png

Screenshot_685.png

Dragon Book
unknown.png

Note that this section in the Dbook takes place after the Pure Boo sections, and is basically just covering the series overall.
Movie 12 Animanga
image0.png


Daizenshuu 7
unknown.png

Note that this Daizenshuu covers both anime and manga, and it's in the section for covering abilities, which isn't covering things in chronological order.
There are also like, 5 more statements for him being the strongest in the Universe, but this are the most blatant.
I don't think that's enough proof to say Vegito is stronger than Kid Buu.
 
Goku shakes most of Hell while fighting Cell and Frieza.

But I don't see why this would really scale to anyone from Z. Base Gohan's Super Kamehameha and even the fodder Super Saiyans were far more of a threat than Majuub to suppressed Super 17 in this arc, and SS Goku puts up a better fight than them.

At the very least, the gap between base Trunks here and SS3 Goku in the Buu Saga (let alone Goku himself) is way greater than the gap between SS3 and Super Saiyan.
 
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We should also probably look into whether that dude saying base gt goku has enough power to wipe a galaxy is the same in Japanese as it is in English
 
Anyway, until someone decides to calc the GT feat we have no option but to remove the 3-C+ ratings that come from the Fusion Reborn feat.
 
Anyway, until someone decides to calc the GT feat we have no option but to remove the 3-C+ ratings that come from the Fusion Reborn feat.
Surely it can't be much lower than the Fusion reborn feat?

And is there anyone willing to calc it?
 
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