Regarding Flashes durability

[Confluctor]

That was alt reality version, right? I am not too sure about scaling alt realities to main ones ngl. We can just use the GL construct like Barry has on his file

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That was alt reality version, right? I am not too sure about scaling alt realities to main ones ngl. We can just use the GL construct like Barry has on his file

As I stated earlier, that shouldn't scale to normal Wally as that was Wally at his peak. Same goes for Barry.

Plus I don't think there are any established differences for the alt reality vampire thing besides them being vampires. I think scaling should be fine.

 

[Confluctor]

Idk we usually avoid scaling to 4b value of alt supermen because there is no proof they scale to prime reality - but ofc, no proof they don't scale.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Aight ig

 

[Antvasima]

This is how Reverse Flash's profile dealt with the singularity feat:

"Possibly Universe level to High Universe level at exactly the Speed of Light (According to Brainiac 5, with the speed force breaking down and the laws of physics in play, a speedster traveling at light speed would get so heavy that they will become a singularity and rip open the universe[21][Note 2])

Note 2: As Brainiac 5 says and nothing implies otherwise, Light Lass' would to be destroyed if she were to become a singularity, presumably by having her body turned into it. The amount of destruction she would unleash on the universe as a side effect of becoming a singularity is logically not something she can replicate with her blows at light speed without becoming a singularity. The feat is only rated at "possibly" 3-A or High 3-A because to rip open something has no evidence to, and in this case likely doesn't mean the same as, to destroy all of it. For example, a building being said to be ripped open may only mean that it has a hole teared at one side of it, without even going all the way through the building or it being a destruction that would equal what's needed to destroy the whole building. Same if bigger things were ripped open, like a planet, galaxy, and in this case, the universe. There is no standard for what set destruction would the singularity need to make to make Brainiac 5's statement accurate."

The same should have been applied to the other Flashes.

What do the rest of you think about this?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, does somebody have any suggestions for solutions to the other issues that I was part of discussing above?

 

[Confluctor]

Also, does somebody have any suggestions for solutions to the other issues that I was part of discussing above?

Like?

What do the rest of you think about this?

Works for me

 

[Antvasima]

Wait a little please.

The post-Crisis Flashes have environmental destruction values that contradict each other. They cannot be 3-A to High 3-A and 2-C to 2-A at the same time.

And regarding the post-Flashpoint Flashes, why would ripping open a universe by becoming a singularity be 2-C to Low 1-C?

Well, if he is strictly scaled to 2-C to Low 1-C from the Speed Force feat, the one in which Brainiac claimed that he can rip apart a universe should probably be omitted as a justification for it.

What do you mean? How is a 3-A to High 3-A feat a justification for 2-C to Low 1-C?

It can probably be confusing for our visitors to list it in that manner.

Maybe it can be listed in a feat section instead?

Okay. No problem. However, it seems best to list far less impressive supporting feats in a feats list section instead, if they do not fit with the tiers in question.

I was referring to these points.

 

[Confluctor]

As mentioned multiple times before, I will get to the ED revision of their AP some other time. That needs research of its own. And I am fine with removing anything that mentions the light speed attack because this is going in circles.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So what are our conclusions here so far in that regard then?

 

[Confluctor]

As of now, they lose their tier 3, 2 and 1 (for PFP) durability and striking strength, and likely range if they have it. In addition to, their tier 2 and 1 (for pfp) becomes the sole ED rating for them

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine then, if there are no serious complaints toit.

 

[Confluctor]

Anyway, can I get the flashes and reverse flashes files opened, please? So I can finally apply this and move onto the next revision

 

[Confluctor]

Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis)
Flash (Wally West) (Rebirth)
Flash (Barry Allen) (Post-Crisis)
Flash (Post-Flashpoint)

 

[Confluctor]

@CowHeadGod You said Hunter's AP has some wording issues, can you list them out here please? Or how you would you reword his current justification?

 

[Confluctor]

Reverse Flash (New 52) should likely lose his "likely far higher" rating too

 

[Antvasima]

Flash (Wally West) (Post-Crisis)
Flash (Wally West) (Rebirth)
Flash (Barry Allen) (Post-Crisis)
Flash (Post-Flashpoint)

I have unlocked them. Tell us here when you are done please.

 

[Antvasima]

Reverse Flash (New 52) should likely lose his "likely far higher" rating too

Please elaborate.

 

[Confluctor]

Please elaborate.

it scales to Speed Force Barry, which until now, we assumed was tier 2 physically too. Buts basically hax stuff

 

[Confluctor]

In the Chain Lightning Storyline, Cobalt Blue travels back in time to kill Barry Allen. Following the death of Barry prior to the Zero Hour Timeline's encounter with the Anti-Monitor, Wally would arrive at an alternate final battle in the Anti-Matter universe that originally took place in COIE #12. After the Anti-Monitor was weakened to the point the heroes could damage him thanks to Doctor Light, Wally boosted the metabolism and speed of the heroes, giving them an edge in a fight they already won in original Crisis. When the injured Anti-Monitor got back up like he did in the original COIE, Wally went into a fit of anger, defeating the already injured Anti-Monitor.

This note should also be removed, btw. I already pointed out earlier how he wasn't actually defeating him and its a little too vague to actually consider "defeating"

 

[Antvasima]

it scales to Speed Force Barry, which until now, we assumed was tier 2 physically too. Buts basically hax stuff

Okay. You need to go more indepth into your explanation though. I switch between lots of different tasks.

This note should also be removed, btw. I already pointed out earlier how he wasn't actually defeating him and its a little too vague to actually consider "defeating"

Well, the Anti-Monitor's physical form was definitely destroyed and reduced to a pure energy state at the very least, if I remember correctly. I do not quite understand your reasoning here either.

 

[Confluctor]

Okay. You need to go more indepth into your explanation though. I switch between lots of different tasks.

I mean I keep rewriting the same thing at least five times over... Speed force amped barry loses his physical scaling and its mostly just hax/ED. Thawne currently scales to that in his "likely higher" section of AP.

Well, the Anti-Monitor's physical form was definitely destroyed and reduced to a pure energy state at the very least, if I remember correctly. I do not quite understand your reasoning here either.

And there is also a case of duraneg... Which we went through for like a whole page.

 

[Antvasima]

I mean I keep rewriting the same thing at least five times over... Speed force amped barry loses his physical scaling and its mostly just hax/ED. Thawne currently scales to that in his "likely higher" section of AP.

Okay. That seems fine then.

And there is also a case of duraneg... Which we went through for like a whole page.

I would appreciate if you refresh my memory in this regard.

 

[Confluctor]

Conversation between Lunge and I about it in page 2

But in any case, it's still a weakened af armor. As you can see in the scan before, it's damaged heavily. So there is no way he scales to AM. Especially since no pre crisis hero fought him after the third scan where his armor gets heavily damaged.

Nothing indicates it's that heavily damaged. In fact, he falls, the heroes celebrate, then AM stands up, apparently unphased

1. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VtB8XbPwUOQ/Vnu74rhfUBI/AAAAAAAAAXw/5HhehaI8d_s/s0-Ic42/RCO012.jpg
2. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rNKMRIErKL4/Vnu75DxhBhI/AAAAAAAAAX4/dOthrCQzWm0/s0-Ic42/RCO013.jpg
3. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dwkCK4EI8Ok/Vnu75SWm44I/AAAAAAAAAX8/nhmdMu0etqA/s0-Ic42/RCO014.jpg
4. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WwFHE8NuNc0/Vnu75qTOBLI/AAAAAAAAAXw/tsZCYyrJNio/s0-Ic42/RCO015.jpg
5. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w2fLKdX3Lr4/Vnu75sa7keI/AAAAAAAAAXw/PoVQ7m4Imxs/s0-Ic42/RCO016.jpg
6. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qpSpYLTECo/Vnu758DEyKI/AAAAAAAAAXw/KE9byNY7u_M/s0-Ic42/RCO017.jpg

Flash 87 #150

This is the only thing that needs discussing, that's all really. This is the only feat of Flashes that even remotely comes close to tier 2.

My arguments against this feat are;

1. AM was weakened, as shown clearly in the scan
2. His armour is shown to be destroyed in many parts already before Flash even gets there
3. The way the Flash moves implies he duranegged him and nothing that can scale to his physicals

Qawsedf234 and Eficiente regarding the AM stuff

If its just juding the rating them I'm with Confluctor here. Wally going full blast doesn't really scale to his durability. Its all speed force based power increase and hax.

I'm agreeing with Confluctor here too.

And then you;

Thank you for the evaluations. I suppose that Confluctor's accepted suggestions are probably fine to apply then, but we should preferably wait a bit to see if we receive responses from any other members that I sent a notification to as well.

And no one else replied for like a week. I can't wait weeks and still not get any responses. If you all have issues with it, make a separate CRT.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Your suggestion seems fine to apply then.

 

[Confluctor]

Nice. All done.

Only thing left is Hunter's file, which I assume CowHeadGod has some suggestions for. Will wait for him for a bit to respond

 

[Antvasima]

Nice. All done.

Okay. Thank you for helping out. Should I lock the Flash pages again or has that already been handled?

Only thing left is Hunter's file, which I assume CowHeadGod has some suggestions for. Will wait for him for a bit to respond

@CowHeadGod

 

[Confluctor]

I think Tllmbrg handled it. But if they are still unlocked, please lock them. Thanks

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will check.

 

[Antvasima]

Tllmbrg already handled it, yes.

 

[Confluctor]

@CowHeadGod

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Can we give the 4-B justification change for Wally and Barry?

I'd also like to change Wally's main render to this:

 

[Confluctor]

Can we give the 4-B justification change for Wally and Barry?

what do you want to change it to again? Iirc, I said we can't scale him to alt supes

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

what do you want to change it to again? Iirc, I said we can't scale him to alt supes

So that's a no?


Ok. The reasons are simple

Wally was already at running at his peak when he broke through Hal's shield, meaning this feat would only apply to Wally at his peak and not him normally.

Hunter had the strength force and sage force at his disposal already when he incapacitated Supes and the gang, so this feat cannot apply to Hunter's base self.

Hunter's normal self should imply be Unknown or 4-B via scaling to his Post Crisis counterpart. As much as I hate it, his regular form has no feats at all, and all his feats in rebirth was when he had the forces at his disposal.

I'm not sure to rate Wally as I haven't read a lot of Wally stuff, and the stuff I have read I forgot, but I will try find new stuff for him. At the very least, he should probably be at least comparable or superior to Barry, considering Wally is treated as the superior Flash

Basically Wally should be just be listed as: Solar System level (Comparable if not superior to Barry. Superior to his Post-Crisis self), far higher at his peak (Could contend with Flash War Hunter Zolomon, who one-shot the entire justice league. Alongside Barry Allen, he shattered Green Lantern’s construct and nearly destroyed his ring)

Barry gets the same for his far higher part

 

[Confluctor]

Oh.

 

[Confluctor]

Anyway, not sure if CowHeadGod is interested anymore. I will go ahead and apply changes to Hunter's file tomorrow.

Current one;

Varies. At least Wall level when not enhancing speed (Comparable to Wally), Up to Solar System level normally (Knocked out the entire Justice League and the Titans[3]). Possibly Universe level to High Universe level at exactly the Speed of Light (Comparable to Rebirth Flash). At least Low Multiverse level with the Speed Force, Strength and Sage Force (Overpowered both Flash-War Wally and Barry with relative ease[4], Stronger than Barry[1]). At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level with all 4 Forces (With the 4 Forces started the Force War; the last of which almost tore the multiverse apart[9], Damaged the Black Flash far more than Barry could ever do, Repaired the Force Barrier albeit at the cost of his own life[7]), likely higher (The Still Force is stated to be able to stop creation in its tracks[22] and the Still Force could briefly halt Mister Mxyzptlk's powers[23])

New one should be;

At least Wall level (Comparable to Wally), Varies with speed up to Solar System level normally (Knocked out the entire Justice League and the Titans[3]). At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Low Complex Multiverse level with hax and Environmental Destruction (With the 4 Forces started the Force War; the last of which almost tore the multiverse apart[9], Damaged the Black Flash far more than Barry could ever do, Repaired the Force Barrier albeit at the cost of his own life[7])

Mxy part is merely hax.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Anyway, not sure if CowHeadGod is interested anymore. I will go ahead and apply changes to Hunter's file tomorrow.

Current one;

New one should be;

Mxy part is merely hax.

The force war thing is merely hax?

 

[Confluctor]

It's more of a conceptual hax actually.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It's more of a conceptual hax actually.

How so?

 

[Confluctor]

What do you mean?