Garou Revision

[Magmag]

Okay, that was a bit much on my part. Phoenks summed up my thoughts pretty well- that the panels unfold in a very smooth, chronological way that doesn't allow for long timeframes without the narrative being broken up in an atypical way.

Now it may come out later that Blast and his crew are in another dimension with a different time-flow and the panels are in fact, nonconsecutive, until that happens the timeframes can only reasonably be in seconds.

While your calc may be mathematically perfect and a good applied use of real life physics, Murata has repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn't understand irl physics very well, so I doubt Murata would even be aware of many of the objections you have to a short time frame.

Physics is the only problem but realistically speaking if this feat happened in 1 second or even 1 month the earth would be destroyed either way.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

GPE time

 

[Andytrenom]

yes, as we can't actually see the side of it this is our best scale. Any better ideas?

I'll have to ask a calc group member. I'm against using a crude diagramatic representation of a feat as literal though in terms of scale though

 

[Dienomite22]

That's an assumption. I actually calced it. Just to be clear. That first panel is only 1/3000 of the total height (250m out of 750,000m).

Blast immediately snap opens a “portal window” on a same page that shows the continent is already raised on the next page.

 

[Jibz]

You know i just want to say, the way some of you guys are being utterly down right disrespectful to Rather just for giving their stance is actually insane to me. Grow up.

 

[Ourosboros]

Physics is the only problem but realistically speaking if this feat happened in 1 second or even 1 month the earth would be destroyed either way.

Oh no definitely, but logically earth's population should have been decimated by Saitama's serious punch, devastated by Gaia cannon, and wiped near completely (some s-class level guys might survive) by Psykorochi's attack.

Garou's attack narratively seems to be just a bit below planet busting, so Small Planet+ results don't conflict too much

 

[RatherClueless]

Yes, this IS in chronological order. The timeline of events in this chapter is very smooth if you ignore all the small physics details that don't really matter in a fictional work anyway.

This is literally the best way of portrying it whether it is in or out of chronological order
you see, his argument falls apart because I enjoyed reading it.

Edit: forgor I cant do 4 chan arrows on here. rip

Lmao, ok.

Garou pushes Saitama into the Earth -> Earth bulges -> Blast reacts -> Saitama uses Consecutive Normal Punches

And I provided several reasons even beyond just physics as to why even the lowest time you could assume is silly. Not to mention that the argument of "oh, Saitama must have waited for all this to happen" is whack. Let's assume Saitama reacted after 5 seconds and the scene until he shows up again takes 30 seconds. Do you want Murata to cut into Blast's dialogue to show Saitama continue? Chronological order gets broken in manga all the time. It's not even funny. Also, if this is your argument, retract what you say about LS.

Garou pushes Saitama into the Earth (all labled under his attack) -> Earth bulges -> Earth stops bulging - > Blast reacts -> Garou still pushing Saitama

Why did it stop bulging when he was still pushing him? Why would denting come from the pushing if it smoothly fits with the paneling of the attack? curious.

There is absolutely nothing in this chapter that indicates any out-of-order panels. And if you want to say they are out of order, you need to provide some crazy proof to do so.

I rly dont tbh. The assumption that Saitama just chilled for that long is whack. 30 seconds or 1 hour doesn't really matter. So is the assumption that Garou wouldnt have broken through the other side of the planet after . . . literally less than a second. Unless you wanna say he drastically slowed down in which case the LS argument falls apart yet again.

Yes, this manga has done out-of-order panels before. Rather brought up one of them, being the Flash, Blast, and Saitama stuff. The thing is, in those scenes, we already had a chronological storyline being written out there which was evidently separate from everything else going on. All the stuff with Saitama underground with Flash happened before it.

These events dont have a reason for chronology either. If we continue with Blast appearing after Saitama having had his talk with Garou to fix the seal, would you retract this claim because it suddenly has a clearly separate chronology?

 

[RatherClueless]

Blast immediately snap opens a “portal window” on a same page that shows the continent is already raised on the next page.

So you are saying it either started to accelerate for no real reason (even though it would logically speaking slow down) to silly degrees or are you assuming it just teleported? In eithe scenario we assume a fck up on the authors side in terms of time and go with the best speed actually shown, rather than what we assume to have happened between pannels.

 

[Andytrenom]

I'm fine with a slower timeframe as long as it doesn't require the panels to be out of order in terms of the events

 

[Phoenks]

This is literally the best way of portrying it whether it is in or out of chronological order. you see, his argument falls apart because I enjoyed reading it.

No, it is the best way of portraying it because it is literally how it is portrayed. You have yet to provide any evidence why it is not chronological outside of minor physics details.

Not to mention that the argument of "oh, Saitama must have waited for all this to happen" is whack. Let's assume Saitama reacted after 5 seconds and the scene until he shows up again takes 30 seconds. Do you want Murata to cut into Blast's dialogue to show Saitama continue? Chronological order gets broken in manga all the time. It's not even funny. Also, if this is your argument, retract what you say about LS.

I have no idea what you are arguing here. He doesn't have to cut into Blast's dialogue. Which is why he didn't in the panels. Once again, where is your evidence that this broke chronological order.

Garou pushes Saitama into the Earth (all labled under his attack) -> Earth bulges -> Earth stops bulging - > Blast reacts -> Garou still pushing Saitama. Why did it stop bulging when he was still pushing him? Why would denting come from the pushing if it smoothly fits with the paneling of the attack? curious.

I never said that it stopped. To be more clear, here's another one.

Garou pushes Saitama into the Earth -> Feat is caused as a result -> We are shown Blast's reaction to Earth bulging (The panel/feat that we are calculating) -> Saitama uses consecutive normal punches. Obviously, the Earth doesn't stop bulging as clearly indicated by Blast's reaction. My argument remains the same.

I rly dont tbh. The assumption that Saitama just chilled for that long is whack. 30 seconds or 1 hour doesn't really matter. So is the assumption that Garou wouldnt have broken through the other side of the planet after . . . literally less than a second. Unless you wanna say he drastically slowed down in which case the LS argument falls apart yet again.

You do because you are arguing against what is deliberately shown to us in the manga. And it is reasonable to assume Saitama would allow himself to get hit for a few moments or seconds. He has done this in pretty much EVERY interaction with an aggressive monster. Not to mention, he is particularly not trying to kill Garou here. It only becomes unreasonable when we insert a long timeframe that Saitama obviously wouldn't wait for. Anything above 30 seconds is crazy.

 

[Magmag]

Hold up, was the assumption that the bulge was over when blast looked at it?

 

[Phoenks]

You know i just want to say, the way some of you guys are being utterly down right disrespectful to Rather just for giving their stance is actually insane to me. Grow up.

I didn't see this at first, but I definitely agree. If you're going to respond to Rather, please take the time to actually address what he is saying.

Simply stating "You're looking too much into it" or "Nah that's ridiculous" with no further elaboration is very disingenuous and rude. Especially when he's taken the time to properly construct his arguments and views like this.

 

[Dienomite22]

So you are saying it either started to accelerate for no real reason (even though it would logically speaking slow down) to silly degrees or are you assuming it just teleported? In eithe scenario we assume a fck up on the authors side in terms of time and go with the best speed actually shown, rather than what we assume to have happened between pannels.

I’m not assuming anything because thats what the panels show. There is no panel with Blast stating “some time later in another dimension” or anything in reference to a timeframe and Blast portal window opening is shown on the exact same page with the panel implying the lift was over. And the area of the continent where the plane was at isnt the highest point of the continent so the distance it raised to could be a far lower elevation than the continent’s max height.

 

[NELTRON324]

btw, don't compare dimensions when Saitama and flashy flash were stuck, with the blast dimensions at this time. we don't know blast dimension has different time flow or not because basically they are different dimension.

 

[Ourosboros]

So you are saying it either started to accelerate for no real reason (even though it would logically speaking slow down) to silly degrees or are you assuming it just teleported? In eithe scenario we assume a fck up on the authors side in terms of time and go with the best speed actually shown, rather than what we assume to have happened between pannels.

6 minutes is a very bitter pill to swallow, that's easily multiple chapters in length and longer than the canon length of the Boros fight (5 minutes and 20 seconds).

I could also see silly degrees of acceleration being the case here. There's direct precedent for exactly that with Psykorochi's continent slice, it went from about 80 kilometers above the lithosphere to the ground in four panels. Then we see Tatsumaki looking back at the impact as if it just happened a moment ago instead of taking the many minutes it would realistically need to fall so far

 

[Dienomite22]

btw, don't compare dimensions when Saitama and flashy flash were stuck, with the blast dimensions at this time. we don't know blast dimension has different time flow or not because basically they are different dimension.

That and the lockalize space-time with Flashy was caused by God’s box.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

It seems to me that RatherClueless says that Blast's reaction occurs after Saitama and Garou come out of the hole, probably during or after the conversation with Garou.

I would say that it would be better to wait until the next chapter.

 

[Dienomite22]

Hold up, was the assumption that the bulge was over when blast looked at it?

Yes, part of it

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Thoughts on my suggestions of names and pics for the keys?

They look great, I'm fine with using them aswell

About the timeframe, I also believe it can be longer than the current one so long as it keeps the order of the panels, however I doubt the next chapter will really help on this

 

[RatherClueless]

Phoenks said:

Garou pushes Saitama into the Earth -> Feat is caused as a result -> We are shown Blast's reaction to Earth bulging (The panel/feat that we are calculating) -> Saitama uses consecutive normal punches. Obviously, the Earth doesn't stop bulging as clearly indicated by Blast's reaction. My argument remains the same.

it is straight up stated that it stopped and the last panel we see of the ppl on the plane also indicates this.
"It looks like some of the oceanic plates that had subducted into the earth via crustal movement. . . were pushed back out by some powerful force"

Phoenks said:

No, it is the best way of portraying it because it is literally how it is portrayed. You have yet to provide any evidence why it is not chronological outside of minor physics details.

All of my arguemts are straight up on panel evidence, not requiring stuff like "how fast is the speed of sound" or "how fast would the water flow off of the oceanic plate". Even if you just go with everything shown on panel and literally skip the in betweens (because they apparently dont exist. Life is just a series of panels, kekw), it would at least be 30+ seconds and thats being generous.
Anyways, you completely ignore my point and I knew this would happen, which is why I said in the original post: "Now I know this will be hard for a lot of you, but just for a second assume I was right". The point is that no matter which version is correct, this would absolutely be how it'd be panelled.

Phoenks said:

I have no idea what you are arguing here. He doesn't have to cut into Blast's dialogue. Which is why he didn't in the panels. Once again, where is your evidence that this broke chronological order.

I said assume. The point is to show how many scenarios there are in which this panelling makes the most sence, yet isn't chronological.

Phoenks said:

You do because you are arguing against what is deliberately shown to us in the manga. And it is reasonable to assume Saitama would allow himself to get hit for a few moments or seconds. He has done this in pretty much EVERY interaction with an aggressive monster. Not to mention, he is particularly not trying to kill Garou here. It only becomes unreasonable when we insert a long timeframe that Saitama obviously wouldn't wait for. Anything above 30 seconds is crazy.

Literally ignored the actual arguement in that sentence to say "no".

Also, please answer on this:

RatherClueless said:

These events dont have a reason for chronology either. If we continue with Blast appearing after Saitama having had his talk with Garou to fix the seal, would you retract this claim because it suddenly has a clearly separate chronology?

Dienomite22 said:

There is no panel with Blast stating “some time later in another dimension” or anything in reference to a timeframe and Blast portal window opening is shown on the exact same page with the panel implying the lift was over.

When we cut to the rest of the S class fighting on the surface after Blast teleports Saitama and Flashy Flash, is there a page saying "several (tens of) minutes prior on the surface" or anything of the sort?

Dienomite22 said:

And the area of the continent where the plane was at isnt the highest point of the continent so the distance it raised to could be a far lower elevation than the continent’s max height.

It actually is though. It is directly shown that they are sitting right above the center.

Dienomite22 said:

I’m not assuming anything because thats what the panels show.

If the panels show you, please tell me as to what happened in between those panels. Did the acceleration increase to 15000m/s^2 after the first panel? Does it just teleport to its final height? Like I said, when it comes to fck ups like these, we go by the best that is shown, not by what we have to assume happened in between to justify what we saw.

Ourosboros said:

I could also see silly degrees of acceleration being the case here. There's direct precedent for exactly that with Psykorochi's continent slice, it went from about 80 kilometers above the lithosphere to the ground in four panels. Then we see Tatsumaki looking back at the impact as if it just happened a moment ago instead of taking the many minutes it would realistically need to fall so far

Tbf, that particular scene is so all over the place it's almost comical. This doesn't rly have the same issue though, as we have several points of reference for time frames and none of them indicate the time people want to assume. Here on the other hand we can assume a time frame based on Tatsumaki's reaction and how Psykos was still in her position of attack, indicating a very small time passage. If anything this just goes to show how inaccurate perceived time frames from paneling can be.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think using any timeframe beyond a couple minutes is being insane.

Ditto. Restructuring the events of the chapter is also a huge no.

 

[Dienomite22]

When we cut to the rest of the S class fighting on the surface after Blast teleports Saitama and Flashy Flash, is there a page saying "several (tens of) minutes prior on the surface" or anything of the sort?

That was literally explained by Blast. God’s cube distorted space-time. Nothing involving Blast.

It actually is though. It is directly shown that they are sitting right above the center.

Center of where the continent was pushed out, not the highest point of said continent. The continent is riddled with enormous mountains and the plane is clearly not on any of them.

If the panels show you, please tell me as to what happened in between those panels. Did the acceleration increase to 15000m/s^2 after the first panel? Does it just teleport to its final height? Like I said, when it comes to fck ups like these, we go by the best that is shown, not by what we have to assume happened in between to justify what we saw.

The area with the plane was already at its final height.

 

[LordTracer]

Quick question, has anyone other than RatherClueless disagreed with the calc?

 

[Jibz]

None, though im neutral on the ls shenanigans.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Quick question, has anyone other than RatherClueless disagreed with the calc?

The LS, disagree with it as a LS feat

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Phoenks is right, pushing does counts as a feat of lifting strength, and Garou was pushing hard enough to bulge the Earth in a determinated timeframe, it wasn't really a punch or any kind of fast impact.

And even if you were going to say that Garou needs thrusters to be able to push with that amount of force, it would still count as lifting strength.

It is no different than Iron Man pushing the helicarrier rotor or the ferry using his thrusters.

 

[RatherClueless]

That was literally explained by Blast. God’s cube distorted space-time. Nothing involving Blast.

I can give you way more examples of things not happening in chronological order when I am back on PC if that makes you happy.

Center of where the continent was pushed out, not the highest point of said continent. The continent is riddled with enormous mountains and the plane is clearly not on any of them.

That would be assumed to be the same unless you can prove it. Can you point me to where you get this from? Also, where are you seeing all those mountains? That bulge is so massive, it would look pretty flat actually being on top of it

The area with the plane was already at its final height.

The plane was right at the center of this, so why would it now be at the outermost edge?

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Maverick_Zero_X
I really don't know about Iron man case and that has no basis in this thread, and it will fall under false equivalency as it was a different scenario to this
Garou charged up then hit tackled saitama and thrusted both of them into the earth, and we see the shockwaves move through the earth and the earth bulge on the other side, on the last panel in the scan i posted above, you will see an arrow pointing to and showing the start of the bulge as the shockwaves hit the other side of the earth.
what made the bulge was the shockwaves from Garou's attack not cause he was pushing the earth from the other side, if he was physically pushing it like the entire OP claim, their will be a dent of equal size to the bulge on the side Garou is pushing from. but we are not seeing that and we can only see that the shockwaves started the displacement from inside the earth.

 

[Dienomite22]

I can give you way more examples of things not happening in chronological order when I am back on PC if that makes you happy.

No need. I’ll just accept how the manga portrays the feat.

That would be assumed to be the same unless you can prove it.

They’re along the edge of the continent that is massively bulging from the Earth unevenly. It would be an assumption to say they are at the highest point on the continent.

The plane was right at the center of this, so why would it now be at the outermost edge?

I would have to assume its the edge considering all the ocean fell off the continent near the plane. Unless you are implying there are layers to the continent that was pushed and the plane is at the top most.

 

[RatherClueless]

would have to assume its the edge considering all the ocean fell off the continent near the plane. Unless you are implying there are layers to the continent that was pushed and the plane is at the top most.

In the second panel we are looking in the the direction we were looking from in the prior one (we can tell by the orientation of the plane) The ocean that was there is now completely gone.

Also, just logically speaking. If they were right at the center, they would be at the highest point.

No need. I’ll just accept how the manga portrays the feat.

Mkay?

 

[Dienomite22]

In the second panel we are looking in the the direction we were looking from in the prior one (we can tell by the orientation of the plane) The ocean that was there is now completely gone.

I‘m confused what panel are you talking about for context?

Also, just logically speaking. If they were right at the center, they would be at the highest point.

No necessarily. It all depends upon the rocks and other formations in the ocean that were pushed up too. If they were at the highest center that plane would’ve been drawn stuck on a mountain peak close to or inside the atmosphere with the rest of the continent below them or at least on some mountain, not on a relatively flat for thousands of miles plane with a few large point rocks.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

what are we waiting for, let's upgrade him now

 

[Tamasensei123]

Quick question, has anyone other than RatherClueless disagreed with the calc?

other than him, I think everyone agrees to the increase in garou

 

[LordTracer]

what are we waiting for, let's upgrade him now

Honestly, considering that there’s basically only one person disagreeing and there’s been multiple staff agreements… yeah, this should be good to go.

Just need someone to unlock Garou’s page.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Use my tabber please.

 

[RatherClueless]

Honestly, considering that there’s basically only one person disagreeing and there’s been multiple staff agreements

I mean, the actual size is just blatantly wrong and nobody even debated me on that.

 

[Magmag]

I mean, the actual size is just blatantly wrong and nobody even debated me on that.

size of...

 

[RatherClueless]

size of...

the volume/weight of the tectonic plate. The way it was calced just straight up contradicts what the manga tells and shows us. We are even given a small diagram for the explanation.

 

[Magmag]

the volume/weight of the tectonic plate. The way it was calced just straight up contradicts what the manga tells and shows us. We are even given a small diagram for the explanation.

you're talking about the spherical cap? whats contradicted?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Honestly, considering that there’s basically only one person disagreeing and there’s been multiple staff agreements… yeah, this should be good to go.

Just need someone to unlock Garou’s page.

@Maverick_Zero_X
I really don't know about Iron man case and that has no basis in this thread, and it will fall under false equivalency as it was a different scenario to this
Garou charged up then hit tackled saitama and thrusted both of them into the earth, and we see the shockwaves move through the earth and the earth bulge on the other side, on the last panel in the scan i posted above, you will see an arrow pointing to and showing the start of the bulge as the shockwaves hit the other side of the earth.
what made the bulge was the shockwaves from Garou's attack not cause he was pushing the earth from the other side, if he was physically pushing it like the entire OP claim, their will be a dent of equal size to the bulge on the side Garou is pushing from. but we are not seeing that and we can only see that the shockwaves started the displacement from inside the earth.

Two and also no one refuted his points